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ColdPie posted:Hi, I'm the lead dev on Proton since the project started in 2016. Fuckin awesome! Can’t wait to see some responses. I don’t know poo poo about it but I’m learning and it’s all super interesting.
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Aug 8, 2021 07:29
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ColdPie posted:Hi, I'm the lead dev on Proton since the project started in 2016. That's awesome! What's the biggest hurdle with the various anti-cheat programs? Looking at https://www.protondb.com/ most online PvP games won't run as they get blocked by anti-cheat software.
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Aug 8, 2021 09:37
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ColdPie posted:Hi, I'm the lead dev on Proton since the project started in 2016. Hi and thanks for all the work you've done, I love Linux getting more attention
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Aug 8, 2021 11:34
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Yes, thank you! You're doing awesome work.
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Aug 8, 2021 11:48
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Thanks, all. One thing I wish got a tiny bit more attention was the work that has gone into Wine since the mid-90s. Valve deserves a ton of props for being a huge and excellent sponsor of Wine for the past five years, but we're only here today because of decades of work by hundreds of people.sigher posted:Could you give us the history of how Proton came to be and the difficulties with such a project? Do you work on SteamOS as well? No, I don't have anything to do with SteamOS. In addition to consulting, our company sells a commercial version of Wine aimed at consumers and end users. Back when the first Steam Machines launched in 2013, we thought it could be an interesting new platform for us to try to aim our product at, so we spent a few weeks trying to get something usable on there. We never did get it working very well (that first SteamOS was really not designed to run non-Steam software), but in the process I found a couple of bugs in the display compositor Valve had written for it. I fixed the bugs and sent patches to the maintainer, Pierre-Loup, who you have seen in Steam Deck videos. He said thanks and applied them and that was that. Then in 2016, Pierre-Loup reached out to me to ask if our company was interested in working with Valve on integrating Wine into the Steam for Linux client. I forwarded that on to the bosses here, they did the contract stuff, I spent a week out at Valve's offices doing initial project planning, and we were off. Hooray open source! It took about two years of internal development before we were ready for launch in 2018. For our Wine developers, the worst thing by far is window management. Windows has one window manager and makes strong guarantees about how windows will behave. But Linux has dozens of window managers and by design doesn't make very many guarantees. That allows the WMs to be flexible, which is good for users, but means applications can't make many assumptions about how their windows will be managed. Think about stuff like having multiple monitors, maximizing and minimizing windows, always-on-top behavior, display resolution changes, alt-tabbing... it's a lot, and it's really hard to get just right. So when you try to bridge that gap, it gets real ugly. You have to try to map every WM's behavior to Windows's behavior and sometimes it's just not even possible. And that's before you get into fun things like graphical driver differences (e.g. some games drop their graphics device when they are minimized; does that work right on Linux?), bugs in the WMs themselves, and Linux's penchant for getting a solution 80% done and then throwing it away and starting over... The other big hurdle is game updates breaking in Proton. We're not a primary test target for most game devs, so they just push out updates that work on Windows, and if it doesn't work in Wine, we have to dig in and fix it. That's good in some sense, because Wine becomes better in the process, but it'd be nice for users if game devs would test in Proton first and work with us if issues are found. I wish there was some high-visibility project that used Proton which devs would be interested in testing their software on before deploying  Honestly the biggest problem right now is just that we don't have enough developers. We are hiring btw. Vic posted:What's the biggest hurdle with the various anti-cheat programs? Looking at https://www.protondb.com/ most online PvP games won't run as they get blocked by anti-cheat software. It is impossible to hide the fact that the game is running in Wine. If they don't want to run in Wine, there's nothing we can do to stop them. So we need official support from the anti-cheat developers and game publishers. SCheeseman posted:Do you think total compatibility with Steam's entire library (which is what Valve say they're shooting for) is actually possible? I've spoken to developers associated with Wine who are skeptical of the achievability of that goal. I can't really think of any technical barriers to full compatibility. There are some theoretical future barriers, like code signing ala macOS's Gatekeeper, or the entire new WinRT API that MS tried to push with the Windows Store, but in practice those haven't caught on. Like I said, we can't hide Wine, so there can be political barriers if someone actively wants to stop a game running in Wine. Edit: When you start getting into new architectures, things start to get uglier. E.g. if x86 dies and everyone goes to ARM (ask us about the Apple M1 transition! or running 32-bit Windows programs on macOS after they dropped 32-bit support! oi ). But there are some ideas even there which are being explored. ColdPie fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Aug 8, 2021 |
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Aug 8, 2021 13:11
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I'm hoping Proton - and the Linux community as a whole - eventually figures out ARM/Apple Silicon compatibility, since the new Macs seem like a great value for everything else.
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Aug 8, 2021 18:50
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I'm gonna ask in here since it is related to the Deck (in a round about way. I have a RavPower 45W USBC-C power bank which does charge my portable device. The issue is that after about 5 min the stupid power bank starts to suck battery from the portable device. It only has one USB C port that is an in and out port but I would have thought it would just charge. Is it a broken power bank or an issue in Windows? I did some google work and I can't find anything that would lead me one way or the other.
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Aug 9, 2021 03:36
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USB PD devices negotiate Power Source vs Power Sink. My (weak) understanding is that this factors in whether one side is plugged into the mains, if so that should advertise as Source. I'd expect your battery to only advertise as Source unless it's connected to something that has mains power coming in - a charger or a laptop that's plugged into a charger. So I'd ask RavPower about it first, before seeing if it's a Windows problem. I've charged my phone from my laptop's USB C port and built in battery many times and that negotiation has just worked, the phone didn't try to charge the laptop though neither had a mains connection. Never looked into the actual PD protocol though, dunno what the spec says.
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Aug 9, 2021 04:00
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v1ld posted:USB PD devices negotiate Power Source vs Power Sink. My (weak) understanding is that this factors in whether one side is plugged into the mains, if so that should advertise as Source. I'd expect your battery to only advertise as Source unless it's connected to something that has mains power coming in - a charger or a laptop that's plugged into a charger. So I'd ask RavPower about it first, before seeing if it's a Windows problem. Yeah I’m gonna go home and try it on my Mac and see what it does there and I think if it does the same thing it’s got to be a bank issue. Also power banks that will charge these things ain’t cheap! A good 60W one will set you back some $$
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Aug 9, 2021 04:04
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The $69.99 20k mAh, 45W PD ZMI Amazon says I bought on 15th Aug, 2018 is still being listed at $59.99. Which is kinda pricy for a 3+ year old power bank without PD3.0/PPS, so yeah seems like they keep their value. This Dual USB C 100W looks pretty good for $66, post coupon! There's also a $95 listing for the same bank with a bunch more reviews.
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Aug 9, 2021 04:47
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v1ld posted:The $69.99 20k mAh, 45W PD ZMI Amazon says I bought on 15th Aug, 2018 is still being listed at $59.99. Which is kinda pricy for a 3+ year old power bank without PD3.0/PPS, so yeah seems like they keep their value. Thanks for the link on the second one there I’m gonna save that in case this one won’t get a warranty fix if it’s actually busted.
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Aug 9, 2021 04:49
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I'd search around some more though that seems like a good deal. I hate searching for USB power stuff between all the synonymous or adjacent products and the higher priced/higher marketed/often outdated products that flood the listings and make it harder to find the better designed (and priced) products by often unknown manufacturers. The FCC has a 20k mAh limit on banks you take on a plane, but I've never seen that questioned at an airport though they come down on my toothpaste something fierce. 20k has been ample for my couch Switch/laptop use and is light/small enough to be a sweet spot of sorts, imo.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:00
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v1ld posted:I'd search around some more though that seems like a good deal. I hate searching for USB power stuff between all the synonymous or adjacent products and the higher priced/higher marketed/often outdated products that flood the listings and make it harder to find the better designed (and priced) products by often unknown manufacturers. Yeah it was a pain getting the one I found in the first place because if you search for 45W banks ones that are under that also pop up for whatever reason.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:07
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v1ld posted:I'd search around some more though that seems like a good deal. I hate searching for USB power stuff between all the synonymous or adjacent products and the higher priced/higher marketed/often outdated products that flood the listings and make it harder to find the better designed (and priced) products by often unknown manufacturers.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:40
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It's 100Wh, just checked the FAA site. 160Wh if you ask for airline approval. A 100Wh battery operating at 5V is 20k mAh (or 20 Ah). 5V used to be USB peak voltage before USB PD came along and allowed voltages up to 20V, so I suspect that USB power bank mAh capacities are listed at that 5V number. Which puts 100Wh at 20,000mAh and 160Wh at 32,000mAh at that 5V USB voltage.
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Aug 9, 2021 06:11
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Its cell voltage, and Lion cells are 3.7V. 3.7V * 27A is 99.9W. That's why they measure the limit in watt hours, to circumvent having to care about battery chemistry and cell voltages, idk what battery you have that has a 5V cell voltage but if it does then yes 20A would be 100W
homeless snail fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 06:20
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FAA regs require conversion from Ah to the 100Wh limit at the listed voltage on the device which is 5V for USB banks, not the internal cell voltage. Hence the 20k mAh. Or 32 Ah with airline "permission", which probably means you're fine to carry that by default. It'd be better if all of those services actually listed in Wh, but that's not the case for most USB power banks. The whole thing gets even murkier with PD allowing entire voltage ranges, but there you go.
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Aug 9, 2021 06:41
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This is getting ridiculously off topic but idk where you're seeing that, I'm on the FAA page looking at the regulations right now, the only limit in them is 100Wh for carry ons. Your interpretation doesn't even make sense, since they want to cover things other than 5V USB battery packs and these PD packs can output 20V anyway. The only thing they're concerned about is the energy capacity of the batteries and output voltage tells you nothing about that. For reference, here's the pack I have, maybe your battery doesn't rate itself in Wh but this one does in big letters on the back https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pb41-26800mah-power-bank e: actually no this is a slightly different model, mine has USB-C and PD output, but it is 27Ah, and specifically bought it because they were advertising it fell within FAA regulations homeless snail fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 06:59
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v1ld posted:Never looked into the actual PD protocol though, dunno what the spec says.
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Aug 9, 2021 16:29
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homeless snail posted:This is getting ridiculously off topic but idk where you're seeing that, I'm on the FAA page looking at the regulations right now, the only limit in them is 100Wh for carry ons. Your interpretation doesn't even make sense, since they want to cover things other than 5V USB battery packs and these PD packs can output 20V anyway. The only thing they're concerned about is the energy capacity of the batteries and output voltage tells you nothing about that. You're right here, I think I got it mixed up from when I was looking at this 3 years ago. My bank does have a 72Wh rating on it in clear letters. Googling around shows a bunch of discussion from 4 years ago about some countries being extra strict on banks that don't have the Wh rating on them, where they assume it's the listed output voltage, but that's not a concern on any of the banks I see on sale now. So 26,800 (27 Ah) should be baseline for a Lion-based battery and even up to 43.2 Ah falls under that 160 Wh range for those cells. Which is pretty huge.
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Aug 9, 2021 16:31
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I’ve got the Anker Powercore+ with 45w PD and Anker Powerhouse 100, either one will run my GPD Win 3 at 35w TDP playing Modern Warfare for just shy of two hours. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XRJZXKY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_6HQPA0R9A8CR3829WACN https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F53MW17/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_JGJ1W7R9PX9K0X1EPJRX
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Aug 9, 2021 16:40
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v1ld posted:Bought my dad a 42W PD car charger for $15 recently and his Pixel 4A seems fine with it. So I finally got this today and it works perfect! Definitely should be enough for the deck.
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Aug 10, 2021 00:21
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MarcusSA posted:So I finally got this today and it works perfect! You posted about this less than 24 hours ago. If that's not instant gratification enough then goddamn.
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Aug 10, 2021 01:53
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Thanks Amazon! TBF though it is going to be nice to have a list of these things that would work with the deck when people get theirs and people can make some decent recommendations.
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Aug 10, 2021 01:57
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My amiibo’s will work on this thing right???
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Aug 10, 2021 02:16
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Nuts and Gum posted:My amiibo’s will work on this thing right??? Just emulate them
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Aug 10, 2021 02:19
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Nuts and Gum posted:My amiibo’s will work on this thing right??? I don't think any emulator has hardware amiibo support. Not even with a USB NFC reader. If you can dump your amiibos to .bin files, emulators can read them but not write to them afaik. My knowledge is a couple years out of date though. https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Amiibo
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Aug 10, 2021 20:45
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I've noticed that the yuzu developers are quite active and they've been pretty positive about mesa's performance… If the N-Gabe plays switch games better than the switch… 
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Aug 14, 2021 19:59
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Antigravitas posted:I've noticed that the yuzu developers are quite active and they've been pretty positive about mesa's performance… I mean, even if it plays games as well as the Switch I'll be ecstatic. I'm mostly in this thing for the retro emulator factor. But after buying the BioShock Remasters on Switch and being appalled at their performance, I'll be happy playing my Steam version of that with better performance. Throw in Switch exclusives and I'd be set
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Aug 15, 2021 16:13
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Heran Bago posted:I don't think any emulator has hardware amiibo support. Not even with a USB NFC reader. I gather they're different from amibos but we've been having a blast playing skylanders on cemu with cheap (not so cheap with how many we've collected) figures and an old portal
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Aug 21, 2021 20:28
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Proton Efficiency varies wildly from game to game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EwD4hv7ZR8
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Sep 21, 2021 11:50
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The United States posted:Proton Efficiency varies wildly from game to game While that's cool and all I'm not sure it really means much for the Steam Deck seeing as how he couldn't even get Doom Eternal to run on this machine.
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Sep 21, 2021 12:03
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i feel like the majority of people who are buying a steam deck are tech savvy enough to install another operating system on it; it doesn’t seem like a dream for the plug and play crowd (although i guess there will inevitably be some of those)
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Sep 21, 2021 12:42
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I think windows on the steam deck will be an unpleasant experience and not many people will want to do that.
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Sep 21, 2021 12:53
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Why would it be unpleasant?
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Sep 21, 2021 13:13
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I think windows on the steam deck will be an unpleasant experience and not many people will want to do that. Yeah honestly it’s not that great on the aya neo. Like it works but it does all kinds of funky poo poo all of the time. It’s better on the GPD win max because it has a keyboard and track pad.
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Sep 21, 2021 13:14
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Windows 11 will be long out by the time the Deck is released, where the interface is significantly faster and more responsive for touch input than on 10, so it may actually run pretty well on the Deck, better than 10 for sure.
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Sep 21, 2021 13:20
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anatomi posted:Why would it be unpleasant? Well it’s not built for touch screens are one. The windows keyboard can blow rear end depending on the application. Like sometimes it will move the window with the text box up so you can see what you are typing and sometimes it won’t. It’s hard to tell if I’ve double tapped the icon quick enough for the application to load. There’s no real feedback to know for sure. All the UI elements are small and can be a pain to touch. The weird 1200 x 800 (or whatever) resolution freaks out a lot of games in windows. Like I was trying to load up Stardew and it was loading the game boarderless window but it wasn’t using the right resolution so I had to go to a window mode and then try and force it to go full screen for the right resolution. Quite a few games do this. Valhiem also defaulted to the wrong resolution. Good luck trying to cut and paste anything. Those are a few off the top of my head that I’ve run into tonight using my Aya Neo which is essentially a beta steam deck. It works but it’s not pleasant and not designed for the device it’s used on.
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Sep 21, 2021 13:21
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Ah, I hear ya. I find the touch capabilities adequate (though certainly not good) but I frequently use my Surface in tablet mode so maybe I'm just used to the busted-ness.
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Sep 21, 2021 13:47
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If you're going to install Windows on it (which imo is probably a bad idea and a solution in search of a problem), you're probably better served just having it boot straight into big picture mode anyway. It'd probably behave pretty much the same as stock at that point. Steam Input makes it pretty easy to navigate Windows with a gamepad also, especially with a Steam Controller.
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Sep 21, 2021 14:17
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