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Coolness Averted posted:As others have said this is pretty different from the Cards Against Humanity folks, who had done ramping black friday protest sales and always were 100% upfront about things like "You will pay extra and get nothing more if you buy today." to "This will be an empty box. Do not buy anything today" and finally of course the bullshit box. I'm honestly curious how that is any different from or more upfront than this: The preorder page for the disappointing book posted:Surprises are good, usually. This one possibly less so. e: I don't mean this as a "gotcha" or anything. I sincerely don't see how they're different and wonder if there's something I'm missing that could convince me they are. Johnny Landmine fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 08:56
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That tells you what it isn't, while the Cards Against Humanity people told you what their literal box of bullshit was. The gamer mind, confronted with a product to purchase, has almost infinite capacity for invention. Of course some people tore apart their boxes of bullshit looking for a hidden card.
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Aug 12, 2021 09:04
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That makes sense. It still doesn't seem very different to me, but put that way, I can see how this might be seen as encouraging more people to tear apart their boxes of bullshit, as it were.
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Aug 12, 2021 09:11
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90s Cringe Rock posted:That tells you what it isn't, while the Cards Against Humanity people told you what their literal box of bullshit was. I think that's the crux of it, for me. When you tell people 'this definitely isn't a thing' we're conditioned to expect some amount of wink wink there's a thing in here somewhere. When you lay out very clearly what something is, even if it's nothing, it feels different when you get exactly what was claimed.
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Aug 12, 2021 09:20
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As weakly humorous and technically true as the product description is, it was still clearly a joke of some kind. Is it reasonable to think "I'm selling something useless that no one would ever want" is also a part of the joke? I think so. In fact clearly it's part-joke anyway, because it's still an art project and an acceptable outcome to some customers. Is it reasonable to think that it might in fact even be the stuff it says it's not? Again, I think so. It's definitely a little foolish to buy something blindly, even if it turns out you love it. But this is basically a prank, and pranks are rarely funny if the pranked don't laugh about it, and it's not their fault if they feel their trust was betrayed.
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Aug 12, 2021 11:35
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There's an expectation that whatever you buy is going to be worth $45 because that's where he set the price. He's talking out both sides of his mouth. Simultaneously saying "This is worthless, don't buy it" and "This is worth fifty dollars and here's how to buy it." Horror as a genre has a history of beginning with dissuasion. It reads as unfair to punish the protagonist without warning; It's essential that a villager warns not to go to Castle Dracula or that you're all going to die at Crystal Lake. It reads like he's doing a bit. His pitch is telling us to stay out of the spooky mansion, and anyone who knows horror knows that it's not for the reasons he's giving. Because if it were boring and not worth our time, he wouldn't be facilitating admission.
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Aug 12, 2021 12:23
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That makes sense, but Thousand Year Old Vampire is miles away from being horror.
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Aug 12, 2021 13:31
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canepazzo posted:Been following this RPG for a while, Blackbirds, which seems to be a Horror fantasy setting using Zweihander rules. drat that animation looks great, sounds like a sick setting.
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Aug 12, 2021 14:11
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Daniel Fox (Zweihander Guy) is a jerk and a metaphorical cop, I really wouldn't recommend giving money to him. I also have no idea if he'll put a quickstart or rules preview up for this Kickstarter or just demand you buy Zweihander to learn more and there's a nonzero chance it's just Zweihander again with no changes.
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Aug 12, 2021 14:57
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Yeah, anything attached to Zweihander gives me immediate red flags.Xiahou Dun posted:That makes sense, but Thousand Year Old Vampire is miles away from being horror. What would you define it as?
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Aug 12, 2021 15:01
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SkyeAuroline posted:Yeah, anything attached to Zweihander gives me immediate red flags. Hmm. If you made me put it into one word for an already existing genre like a movie, I'd probably say something like "drama" but that's cheating because it's such a broad category. I'm far from an expert on the game (I own it and have tried it a few times), but from my experience it seems to be exactly what it looks like : a maudlin immortality simulator. It's got a lot of content that's miles from happy bunnies and being family friendly, of course, but I don't think that makes it horror and if someone asked me for a horror game and I gave them Thousand Year Old Vampire, I think they'd be really confused. Like my first game wound up having a lot more DNA in common with something to the tune of Grave of the Fireflies : it certainly was dark and heavy and wasn't a happy time, but it also wasn't ookily-spookily scares and dares.
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Aug 12, 2021 15:16
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Xiahou Dun posted:That makes sense, but Thousand Year Old Vampire is miles away from being horror. Ok fine, it's pretty much a staple of vampire fiction and horror. But more importantly, you can't do the don't go there, you mustn't go there! bit and then sell premium priced tickets to a vacant lot. The setup establishes that there's something there, even if the words explicitly state otherwise. If this were a $15 book, it could have been better recieved. But at triple that cost? moths fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 15:17
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I caped for Zweihander for years and once I stopped being profitable he screenshotted me to subtweet at his thousands of followers so Blackbirds could change the very nature of the roleplaying industry and I'd still tell it to gently caress off.
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Aug 12, 2021 15:43
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TK_Nyarlathotep posted:I caped for Zweihander for years and once I stopped being profitable he screenshotted me to subtweet at his thousands of followers so Blackbirds could change the very nature of the roleplaying industry and I'd still tell it to gently caress off. I can respect hustle, but this guy? oof.
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Aug 12, 2021 16:30
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I am curious how much of his new game is just thinly obfuscated BRP horror.
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Aug 12, 2021 17:11
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Zweihander just seems like a totally unnecessary product, and his 40k ripoff even moreso.
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Aug 12, 2021 17:29
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Hostile V posted:Daniel Fox (Zweihander Guy) is a jerk and a metaphorical cop, I really wouldn't recommend giving money to him. What’s a metaphorical cop?
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Aug 12, 2021 17:48
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LatwPIAT posted:What’s a metaphorical cop?
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Aug 12, 2021 17:59
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Halloween Jack posted:Zweihander just seems like a totally unnecessary product, and his 40k ripoff even moreso. I don't care much about either WFRP, ZH or Fox, but: ZH is a retroclone of WFRP2e and it was developed and released at the time when the only WFRP in print and available for purchase was the custom dice FFG version. It received quite a nice chunk of money when it Kickstarted, so evidently the demand was there. There is less need for it now that WFRP 4e uses a variant of the original system, but there are enough differences that someone might still prefer ZH.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:22
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Megazver posted:ZH is a retroclone of WFRP2e and it was developed and released at the time when the only WFRP in print and available for purchase was the custom dice FFG version. Did ZH ride the same "This is different and I HAAAATE IT" wave that Pathfinder did? poo poo, even his business model is a knockoff.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:26
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LatwPIAT posted:What’s a metaphorical cop? Presumably not, a person who’s stated job is to enforce laws about the construction of metaphors. e: A person that doesn’t exist except as a conceptual example of a law enforcement officer. A person that is a real bastard, but only in the abstract. DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 19:06
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I'm not a big Zweihander fan, but this is a use case that actually makes sense. The corebook was Warhammer Fantasy RPG with the interesting setting elements stripped out, which called into question why anyone would care when they could just play the original game (aside from the availability of the Warhammer books, which I think most people who were interested addressed via piracy). Whereas taking those mechanics and building a different setting around them at least offers something new. "Kill the guys who killed the gods and took their power" is an alright premise, as long as at the end of the game I'm allowed to take their power and become the villain for the next campaign.
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Aug 12, 2021 19:26
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mellonbread posted:why anyone would care when they could just play the original game (aside from the availability of the Warhammer books, which I think most people who were interested addressed via piracy). See also: why Fox has such an obsession with chasing down and quashing tabletop game piracy.
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Aug 12, 2021 19:27
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SkyeAuroline posted:See also: why Fox has such an obsession with chasing down and quashing tabletop game piracy. You know, I never made that connection.
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Aug 12, 2021 19:41
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Ironically when 4e WHFRP came out they released a bunch of 1e and 2e as cheap PDFs that you could get pretty conveniently, too. It was helpful!
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Aug 12, 2021 19:53
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I liked WFRP 3E, although it could have really used a new iteration post FFG Star Wars, it had way too many fiddly bits.
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Aug 12, 2021 20:53
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Zweihander was free on DTRPG for a while, too. I know this because it's in my DTRPG library and I sure as hell never swapped money for it.
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Aug 12, 2021 20:58
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Same here. Guy spent a crazy amount of energy chasing down pirated copies of a book most people got for free anyway.
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Aug 12, 2021 21:00
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MonsieurChoc posted:I liked WFRP 3E, although it could have really used a new iteration post FFG Star Wars, it had way too many fiddly bits. Yeah, I really liked the bones of the game, but the way it was all set up struck me as an excuse to sell me a lot of fiddly cardboard instead of a lot of fat books. And I can't read fiddly cardboard while using the can.
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Aug 12, 2021 21:11
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I played it once, loved it, then lost half the cards in a move. Oops, now it's unplayable junk. Thanks FFG. The "ok fine here's the rules in book format" revision was too little too late to save it, and exasperated the issue because why didn't they do that all along?
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Aug 12, 2021 21:27
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Hey folks. It's been a long time since I've dabbled in RPGs but I'm getting in the mood to play one or, more realistically, run one for other players. But I don't know which RPGs are good and which are bad. Which RPG should I run? Please only post good RPGs. Thank you.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:51
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Heart: The City Beneath
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Aug 12, 2021 22:52
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zerofiend posted:Heart: The City Beneath Solid first response. I suggest Fellowship.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:57
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Wanderhome.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:06
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100 degrees Calcium posted:Hey folks. It's been a long time since I've dabbled in RPGs but I'm getting in the mood to play one or, more realistically, run one for other players. But I don't know which RPGs are good and which are bad. Which RPG should I run? Please only post good RPGs. Thank you. There are hundreds. At least give us a genre or a campaign premise or something.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:30
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I doubt there are even five good RPGs but fine let's say "fantasy adventure." 
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Aug 12, 2021 23:31
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Ryutama
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Aug 12, 2021 23:42
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100 degrees Calcium posted:I doubt there are even five good RPGs but fine let's say "fantasy adventure." potatocubed posted:I suggest Fellowship.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:50
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I have been looking these games up and they all sound amazing. I had no idea so many interesting things were happening in the RPG space. From the outside it looks like D&D rules the world with Pathfinder nipping at its heels but I have a feeling the truth is there's a lot more going on than that. So in truth what I want is something easy for me and my friends to get into online. Long-term campaigns are a thing of the past for us, I think, but we still have the interest of getting together from time to time for something more "beer and pretzels". I don't know if this kind of thing exists but what I'd really like is something where everyone can make characters and have a decently satisfying adventuring experience within 3-4 hours. Is that a huge ask?
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Aug 12, 2021 23:55
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100 degrees Calcium posted:I have been looking these games up and they all sound amazing. I had no idea so many interesting things were happening in the RPG space. From the outside it looks like D&D rules the world with Pathfinder nipping at its heels but I have a feeling the truth is there's a lot more going on than that. I'd absolutely recommend Blades in the Dark here. Also Apocalypse World as it runs to short campaigns. Also Fiasco for one-shots. Pathfinder's basically been on a downward spiral since 5e launched and Pathfinder 2e appears to have gone almost nowhere. There's been a lot bubbling up over the past decade, but 5e is an absolute monster and 2019 was the most successful year in D&D history - and then 2020 improved on it by about a third.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:22
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