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Shiroc posted:lol how many of the people involved or hurt in Operation Fake Vaccines are also now covid antivaxxers because of it, making it so the US can further contribute to people dying? Bigger problem is that it's made it very difficult to take the final steps to wiping out Polio. Taliban doesn't trust foreign doctors for poo poo.
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Aug 14, 2021 04:17
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Delthalaz posted:What was the false pretense for invading Afghanistan? The Bush admin promised revenge against the country harboring Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden wasn't there, so that's a false pretense. He was in our Ally Country Pakistan from Jan. 2002 (3-4 months after september 11) until his death in 2011 edit: oh yeah "revenge" because he had been living there, that's technically true yes. but it wasn't because we wanted to find him or we wouldn't have stayed 10 years after he died in another country Antonymous has issued a correction as of 04:28 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 04:24
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Skulk Hogan posted:https://twitter.com/zenophelion/status/1426279582399926277?s=19 I appreciate it
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Aug 14, 2021 04:28
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There were stupid nazis in my high school saying "glass the mideast" on 9/11, ergo all americans are stupid pieces of poo poo that deserve to be exterminated
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Aug 14, 2021 04:29
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Antonymous posted:Bin Laden wasn't there, so that's a false pretense. He was in our Ally Country Pakistan from Jan. 2002 (3-4 months after september 11) until his death in 2011 We weren't even there to get Bin Laden. We had him (or at least we thought we had him) dead to rights at Tora Bora but they didn't give it enough attention or enough men and he slipped away The "thought we had him" is important here because if they were really after Bin Laden even a rumor of where he was at would get a couple battalions of troops thrown at it
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Aug 14, 2021 04:34
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Hatebag posted:all americans are stupid pieces of poo poo that deserve to be exterminated with you so far
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Aug 14, 2021 05:25
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There's that episode of The Boondocks where MLK wakes in the modern day (well, the year 2000), and when asked what to do about 9/11 he says "Well, as a Christian, I believe we should turn the other cheek." Or something to that effect. At 14 I thought that was well intentioned but incredibly naive. Now looking at it, literally doing nothing would have been better than what did happen.
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Aug 14, 2021 05:45
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Seems like an incredibly lovely rationale for invading and destabilizing a sovereign nation It sure was, wasn't it  Antonymous posted:Bin Laden wasn't there, so that's a false pretense. He was in our Ally Country Pakistan from Jan. 2002 (3-4 months after september 11) until his death in 2011 If he wasn't there how was the Taliban going to turn him over? I thought he left at some point after the US invaded.
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Aug 14, 2021 05:49
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I want to be clear that I'm not defending the United States or the two wars. I'm saying that of the two bad wars, the Afghanistan war was (is) a more, idk, normal one. A country got attacked , so its leaders designated the foreign group that they could plausibly argue was to blame, and proceeded to start killing people basically to get revenge and maybe prevent more attacks. The Iraq War was entirely a loving conspiracy to rob and murder people for completely and deliberately fabricated reasons. Just absolutely insane.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:05
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a few DRUNK BONERS posted:behold, a liberal
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Aug 14, 2021 06:07
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Just remember that if they actually cared about 9/11, they wouldn't have fought so hard to protect the Saudis from litigation.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:17
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Delthalaz posted:I want to be clear that I'm not defending the United States or the two wars. I'm saying that of the two bad wars, the Afghanistan war was (is) a more, idk, normal one. A country got attacked , so its leaders designated the foreign group that they could plausibly argue was to blame, and proceeded to start killing people basically to get revenge and maybe prevent more attacks. *Holds up the liberalism detector* BEEEEEEEP 1.21 GIGA-SPIDERHYPHENMANS EVACUATE BEEEEEEEEEEEEP
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Aug 14, 2021 06:18
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Delthalaz posted:I want to be clear that I'm not defending the United States or the two wars. I'm saying that of the two bad wars, the Afghanistan war was (is) a more, idk, normal one. A country got attacked , so its leaders designated the foreign group that they could plausibly argue was to blame, and proceeded to start killing people basically to get revenge and maybe prevent more attacks. That's loving stupid. Anybody with a functioning brain could see that there was no way a war in Afghanistan would stop future attacks. How the gently caress does murdering hundreds of thousands of people prevent attacks?? That only guarantees attacks, which are now fully justified! If the us position that Afghanistan harbored terrorists was correct (it was not), the only justifiable action would be to take action directly against terrorists. Instead, the us and its allies committed genocide against Afghanistan for a generation.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:22
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Delthalaz posted:I want to be clear that I'm not defending the United States or the two wars. I'm saying that of the two bad wars, the Afghanistan war was (is) a more, idk, normal one. A country got attacked , so its leaders designated the foreign group that they could plausibly argue was to blame, and proceeded to start killing people basically to get revenge and maybe prevent more attacks. Dios mio! *crosses self*
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Aug 14, 2021 06:24
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tokin opposition posted:*Holds up the liberalism detector* BEEEEEEEP 1.21 GIGA-SPIDERHYPHENMANS EVACUATE BEEEEEEEEEEEEP How is saying two things are different a loving liberal argument Hatebag posted:That's loving stupid. Anybody with a functioning brain could see that there was no way a war in Afghanistan would stop future attacks. How the gently caress does murdering hundreds of thousands of people prevent attacks?? That only guarantees attacks, which are now fully justified! Alright I'm just going to shut up because I am clearly failing to express what I'm trying to say so I'm going to end with: The Afghanistan War was not justified. Invading Afghanistan was mostly an act of revenge that accomplished nothing and killed many people. The US should not have invaded either Afghanistan or Iraq. The Iraq War was *even worse* in many ways.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:45
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the stated purposes for war rarely have anything to do with the actual purposes. that the excuse for invading afghanistan was slightly less flimsy than the one for iraq doesn't make it a good excuse.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:50
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now legitimize the gulf war
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Aug 14, 2021 07:20
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Delthalaz posted:I want to be clear that I'm not defending the United States or the two wars. I'm saying that of the two bad wars, the Afghanistan war was (is) a more, idk, normal one. A country got attacked , so its leaders designated the foreign group that they could plausibly argue was to blame, and proceeded to start killing people basically to get revenge and maybe prevent more attacks. the money, saudi the highjackers, saudi the planners, saudi, the boss, saudi bro if Hirohito took a vacation to botswana as a kid you'd have us drop the nukes there instead lol
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Aug 14, 2021 07:24
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Should've bombed Israel too.
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Aug 14, 2021 07:26
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Pope Hilarius II posted:The "invasion" (if it can be called that) of Afghanistan in 2001 was a wholly different animal from the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Taliban was sheltering Osama bin Laden and its regime had zero redeeming qualities. I'm not a supporter of any kind of war, but if any nation circa 2001 deserved to get its government toppled, it was Afghanistan. The Taliban basically were the ISIS of their time and governed Afghanistan for 5 years and managed to piss off almost everyone including their own population due to their horrible level of cruelty and savagery. So portraying that campaign as yet another imperialist adventure of barely concealed corporated greed is, for once, kind of misleading. The whole "no nation building!" was super dumb though and even a moderately intelligent person back then could have predicted the situation it would lead to. 
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Aug 14, 2021 07:42
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Skulk Hogan posted:https://twitter.com/zenophelion/status/1426279582399926277?s=19 That does not appear to be a neon sign at all 
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Aug 14, 2021 07:48
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Pope Hilarius II posted:The "invasion" (if it can be called that) of Afghanistan in 2001 was a wholly different animal from the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Taliban was sheltering Osama bin Laden and its regime had zero redeeming qualities. I'm not a supporter of any kind of war, but if any nation circa 2001 deserved to get its government toppled, it was Afghanistan. The Taliban basically were the ISIS of their time and governed Afghanistan for 5 years and managed to piss off almost everyone including their own population due to their horrible level of cruelty and savagery. So portraying that campaign as yet another imperialist adventure of barely concealed corporated greed is, for once, kind of misleading. The whole "no nation building!" was super dumb though and even a moderately intelligent person back then could have predicted the situation it would lead to. we need to get the re-education camps up and running for these d&d refugees asap
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Aug 14, 2021 07:51
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Aug 14, 2021 08:04
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Antonymous posted:the money, saudi I'm still a little unsure of the boundaries here. If the Iraqis had wanted to get GWB right after his unprovoked attack on their country, whether "dead or alive" or just to capture him and put him on trial, should they have best invaded Connecticut or Texas? I understand that targeting Washington or any federal facilities actually harboring the terrorist would have made no sense. Now, I'm not saying that they should have killed a bunch of civilians who didn't even back the attacks in years of hunting for him, I'm just wondering what path your chain of thought on attacking where criminals are from actually follows. (This is why your argument is usually used for Iraq, where it actually makes sense and would compare to them looking for Bush in Colombia or something. Even by people who think Afghanistan was also a mistake.
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Aug 14, 2021 08:06
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Any and all countries and peoples are justified in attacking the US for any number of reasons
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Aug 14, 2021 10:13
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Any and all countries and peoples are justified in attacking the US for any number of reasons It's really self-defense.
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Aug 14, 2021 10:26
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C'mon, Chud Li was right there.Delthalaz posted:I want to be clear that I'm not defending the United States or the two wars. I'm saying that of the two bad wars, the Afghanistan war was (is) a more, idk, normal one. A country got attacked , so its leaders designated the foreign group that they could plausibly argue was to blame, and proceeded to start killing people basically to get revenge and maybe prevent more attacks. I'm just a dirty foreigner and was but a callow youth at the time but I've always understood the invasion of Iraq to have been largely justified by 9-11. Like if 9-11 didn't happen then all other things being equal there would have been no invasion. I see it as the beginning of our nakedly post truth media landscape. The Saucer Hovers posted:now legitimize the gulf war I've never done any research and on the face of it defending a sovereign nation is fairly legitimate but it being America I figure that's unlikely so if anyone would like to offer a cliffsnotes version on why it was bad I'd really appreciate it.
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Aug 14, 2021 10:29
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bush was already working on a plan for invading iraq before he took office. 9/11 allowed bush to do whatever he wanted and what he wanted was to invade iraq. i don't think bush was behind 9/11 because it worked out ridiculously perfectly for him. things don't go that well for even the most wildly implausible fictional masterminds, much less an alcoholic failson with feigned country boy affectations.
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Aug 14, 2021 10:59
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The vast majority of Afghans had never even heard of 9/11 before the bombs started dropping. The vast majority of U.S. troops in Iraq the first couple of years believed Iraq was also responsible for 9/11, because all the TVs on base blared FoxNews at them 24/7.
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Aug 14, 2021 12:18
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The Saucer Hovers posted:now legitimize the gulf war It was the only way that Americans would ever find out that there are hot women in Iraq.
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Aug 14, 2021 12:41
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Mantis42 posted:Should've bombed Israel too. 
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Aug 14, 2021 12:43
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Aug 14, 2021 13:38
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Delthalaz posted:The Iraq War was entirely a loving conspiracy to rob and murder people for completely and deliberately fabricated reasons. Just absolutely insane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJmFkbBjbO0 Watch it. Bush said he didn't care about Bin Laden on March 13, 2002. SIX MONTHS AFTER INVADING SEVEN MONTHS AFTER 911 One year and a week after saying Bin Laden was not important, the Iraq Invasion started. Iraq was totally an oil grab. happyhippy has issued a correction as of 14:01 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 13:58
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Mantis42 posted:Now looking at it, literally doing nothing would have been better than what did happen. One good thing to have done would have been to tell Americans, "Okay a whole bunch of people literally chose to die for the opportunity to hurt you. Tens of millions hate you across the Middle East (and elsewhere). Here's why." But no one was really willing to listen to "Of course they hate you, your country is run by loving monsters who have caused unspeakable evil across the world for as long as they have been able." The fun part would be working out just how many other countries that sentence also applied to.
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Aug 14, 2021 14:12
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Look I'm not saying dropping a nuke on Hiroshima was good, but there was a military base so it was *less bad* than Nagasaki. Vaporized school child: oh yeah totally man, this argument is necessary and has a point
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Aug 14, 2021 14:58
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Aug 14, 2021 15:10
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Aug 14, 2021 15:56
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https://twitter.com/_Alfalfa_Male_/status/1426311111679242240?s=20 https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1426131780533358592?s=20
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Aug 14, 2021 16:00
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Weka posted:
Gulf War theoretically had a justifiable cause; but in practice it was the US swinging it's dick around to prove it's the one true hyperpower. Saddam had previously been a loose ally of the US and thought he'd received a go-ahead from them to invade Kuwait but either the US didn't expect him to go that far or was deliberately baiting him into being an example depending on how cynical you are. Plus while Iraqi troops were pretty awful to the Kuwaitis as you'd expect, the US also just made up a bunch of poo poo to make the war look better
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Aug 14, 2021 16:06
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Delthalaz posted:I want to be clear that I'm not defending the United States or the two wars. I'm saying that of the two bad wars, the Afghanistan war was (is) a more, idk, normal one. A country got attacked , so its leaders designated the foreign group that they could plausibly argue was to blame, and proceeded to start killing people basically to get revenge and maybe prevent more attacks. When else in our era has a country decided a criminal terror attack was an act of war by a specific nation on the other side of the world and invaded? Let alone invaded a different country. I don't think its exactly a common occurance. Afghanistan wasnt a "normal" war
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Aug 14, 2021 16:09
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