|
AHH F/UGH posted:Yeah but I have a hard time thinking things like human rights will get better without the US and not way, way worse Probably, however, there will probably be less rape of small boys which the US has supported among its allies https://web.archive.org/web/2021081...se-of-boys.html.
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 10:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:31 |
|
|
freeasinbeer posted:The answer is that it varies. I guess I find it weird because of how quick and (relatively) bloodless the whole change of government is after so many resources were spent over the past 20 years. It doesn't feel like a civil war or a revolution. Maybe it's a coup d'état, but the end of a failed coup attempt that the US started 20 years ago? Edit: mobby_6kl posted:There was just never any government to overthrow Discospawn fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Aug 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 10:43
|
|
|
There was just never any government to overthrow
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 10:47
|
|
|
Discospawn posted:Yeah, this lines up with what I was thinking. There has been a lot of blood. The Afghan army and police were brutalized for the last couple years, which is how we got here so rapidly. Targeted killings have been occurring leading up to this. All that blood set conditions for the Afghan government forces to turn tide and cede territory, or desert, or switch sides. Percentage-wise, the Afghan government took just ghastly casualties leading up to this.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 10:51
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:There was just never any government to overthrow Eh; there was a huge spread out government that was easy to isolate; and that steamrolled. Outposts had been besieged for months prior. The military asked to consolidate last year, in a plan to leave 1/4th of the countries districts and were told they “weren’t giving up one inch”. Also this thread on ghani is fun: https://twitter.com/threshedthought/status/1425199119929282560?s=21
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 11:07
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:Yeah looks like Ghanis gonna go down with the ship I doubt it. But he doesn't want to look so pathetic that he's too embarrassing to have at the good parties in the future. As funny as the image of him leaving with a sack with a dollar sign on it is, his loot largely came through stakes in companies based in the Gulf so he can stay right up until the last flight out. The black comedy option is you're right and that despite being the architect of the current Afghan kleptocracy he's some kind of megalomaniacal true believer. He's literal feudal nobility and that kind of mixture isn't that unusual in those types. Zedhe Khoja fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Aug 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 11:09
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/natsecjeff/status/1426496493326843911?s=21 https://twitter.com/natsecjeff/status/1426496476398641152?s=21
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 12:01
|
|
|
freeasinbeer posted:Eh; there was a huge spread out government that was easy to isolate; and that steamrolled. Outposts had been besieged for months prior. The military asked to consolidate last year, in a plan to leave 1/4th of the countries districts and were told they “weren’t giving up one inch”. I meant that more about the central government as the institution rather than the military, though that probably not very clear from that post. If there isn't much of a government established, it would be easier to take over. Not consolidating the military was very dumb of course.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 12:17
|
|
|
freeasinbeer posted:But; there was an ANA convoy recently that fled over 100km through Taliban controlled territory without much trouble, so Taliban “control” might be less concrete then portrayed by maps. Part of why these cities are falling without a fight is that the Taliban offer the ANA a safe retreat in exchange for the town. I don't know about the instance you mentioned, but maybe that convoy was granted safe passage.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 12:50
|
|
|
I'm not sure it's true to say the Afghan government never existed, but if it did, Ghani absolutely ran it into the ground. His unbelievably poor decision making now is bringing me over to the idea that he's just some academic in way over his head who alienated everyone he'd need to put up even a token resistance, but Karzai seems like he was the real deal to some extent. His personal history is seriously fascinating. Like he's ethnically Pashtun, used to be friendly with the Taliban, then the Taliban murked his dad so he turned against them (also because he resented Pakistan's control over them), and the US liked the guy enough to install him instead of anyone from the Northern Alliance. Out of office he turned against the US and became a bit more Taliban friendly again (despite their repeated assassination attempts against him while president), calling Ghani a traitor for allowing the US free rein to bomb the poo poo out of everywhere.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Aug 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 13:04
|
|
|
AHH F/UGH posted:I mean in the sense that like, yeah it's in the news but it doesn't really seem to be getting as much traction as it would (for obvious reasons) but also just because I think that people are so loving done with Afghanistan being anything at all to them that it wouldn't get as much play as like, 10 years ago or something regardless. There isn't all that much newsworthiness in these events, it's just rural towns that most foreigners haven't heard of and have no feelings about, and I think even more importantly there are no international journalists embedded in Afghan army or Taleban units. Now it's just very dry reporting about Taleban advances and very few cell phone photos. I guess Taleban is also different from ISIS who used internet extensively for their propaganda purposes and that way we got lots of combat videos from Syria and Iraq, but that makes sense because ISIS recruited internationally.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 13:11
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:There isn't all that much newsworthiness in these events, it's just rural towns that most foreigners haven't heard of I promise a ton of foreigners have heard of Kandahar since it was mentioned a ton during the invasion. Beyond that, each individual city that's taken may not be newsworthy, but the Taliban basically conquering the country in a matter of weeks is massively newsworthy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 13:14
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:I promise a ton of foreigners have heard of Kandahar since it was mentioned a ton during the invasion. Beyond that, each individual city that's taken may not be newsworthy, but the Taliban basically conquering the country in a matter of weeks is massively newsworthy. It's front page news, but there's still not much human interest in reporting names of fallen cities.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 13:24
|
|
|
Also: The deal with the Taliban was that the US would leave by May. So they’ve been ready for a while and occasionally reminding the US of its impatience. And if the deal was “lol, the US will never leave,” I do not think the Taliban answer would have been to shrug and stay put, defeated.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
Taliban seem to be at the gates of Mazar E Sharif which is Dostums main stronghold https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1426526038960508930?s=20 Also LOL poor CIA:- https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1426535107406569481?s=20
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 14:29
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:drat if only america gave a poo poo about human rights as much as you do they could’ve done a lot better in the last 20 years Yeah, we also probably shouldn't have propagandized jihad material to Afghan children throughout the 80s to fight the soviets either. https://twitter.com/Rzhevsky/status/1426264821297684483 From article: quote:In the twilight of the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings, part of covert attempts to spur resistance to the Soviet occupation. Probably a big mistake, and it's already been memory holed. Kinda like helping to spawn the Taliban into existence in the first place.  Darth Walrus posted:As mentioned, human rights cover many different topics. The Taliban are much less likely to rape little boys (bacha bazi was and is a powerful recruitment tool), bomb your entire village into dust, or send the psychotic death squads of the Zero Units through your region (when the news refers to 'Afghan special forces' as the core of the national army, that's who they're talking about). The occupation government ruled more through a monopoly on violence than any serious attempt to establish goodwill and sustainable livelihoods, which is why they're evaporating so fast. The Taliban may be rear end in a top hat fundamentalists, but they could at least make a more credible promise of peace, security, and stable governance. The Taliban not being a puppet regime of foreign powers goes a long long way, and a lot of people need to understand that. Or else these about faces will just keep on coming.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
The mujahedeen and the taliban were not the same thing, though there is certainly overlap. Similarly, the taliban pretty much only still exist today because they've been propped up and given shelter by foreign powers, (pakistan's ISI probably above all others). But yeah even that is still a hundred times less outrageous than having american-trained death squads running around your country for literally decades. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Aug 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 16:15
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1426563100245954563?s=20
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 16:19
|
|
|
Lol at everyone flexing their knowledge of the ME as the ANA folds up. Lots to think about...
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 16:35
|
|
|
The Taliban can now operate Military Choppers:- https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1426576216912535560?s=20
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 17:11
|
|
|
Well. We funded the Taliban in the 1980s and now they are instituting a rightwing Islamic fundamentalist regime backed by American equipment and vehicles. We did it folks. Mission accomplished.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
There's unconfirmed news coming in that Mazar-I-sharif has been conquered by the taliban with dostum and atta noor withdrawing out of afghanistan... waiting for more reliable sources before linking, if so, the Taliban has effectively conquered everything of value in afghanistan besides Kabul. UPDATE:- Confirmed, Mazar-I-Sharif has fallen to the Taliban https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1426589676966711296?s=20 https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1426591191622107144?s=20 Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Aug 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 17:58
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:There's unconfirmed news coming in that Mazar-I-sharif has been conquered by the taliban with dostum and atta noor withdrawing out of afghanistan... waiting for more reliable sources before linking, if so, the Taliban has effectively conquered everything of value in afghanistan besides Kabul. Those tweets don't provide much evidence; I'll hold out on the "confirmed" bit for now. Not that the city falling would surprise anyone at this point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
Count Roland posted:Those tweets don't provide much evidence; I'll hold out on the "confirmed" bit for now. Not that the city falling would surprise anyone at this point. https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1426603862652293120?s=20
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
The Fall of Saigon 2: But This Time, The Entire Country In A Week
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 19:30
|
|
|
Are we going to see the last American troops leave Afghanistan being escorted by Taliban troops/officials? Not 'escorted' as in the jailer/captive sense, but just like 'host country sees off foreign guests after visit'. I don't think US troops have any obligation to act in any way other than to defend themselves and US citizens, and the Taliban have so much momentum and seem disciplined enough that they could take Kabul without threatening non-Afghan interests. Seeing that video of the 'Taliban-piloted helicopter' makes me wonder if the Taliban maintained their own shadow-Air-Force, or if it's really just a matter of a large portion of the Afghan Air Force switching allegiance. Edit: Wow, fair enough. Discospawn fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
America asks taliban to let them evacuate:- https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1426612180271702019?s=20
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 19:34
|
|
|
Last key outpost of Govt control in the north of Afg, the strategically and commercially important city of Mazar e Sharif has fallen to the Taliban according to local officials. one says both Dostum and Noor who were leading resistance have fled to the border with Uzbekistan Whoever said dostum would put up his hands and go back to uzbekistan was right
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 19:40
|
|
|
On Wikipedia, articles on major battles/conflicts/skirmishes always have a summary panel that lists who the belligerents were, the force sizes, and the number of casualties. It feels like there's going to be a 'Battle of Kabul (2021)' article that lists the ANA & Taliban as the belligerents but they'll have equivalent army sizes and 0 casualties for both sides because it's really just the former transitioning allegiance to the latter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 19:48
|
|
|
Grip it and rip it posted:Lol at everyone flexing their knowledge of the ME as the ANA folds up. Lots to think about... https://twitter.com/wyatt_privilege/status/1426583738796941312
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 20:18
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/kblafghanistan/status/1426615861280972803?s=21 Yeah, this is basically game over.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 20:26
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/MSharif1990/status/1426596988775174144?s=19 This is over.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 20:41
|
|
|
biden just put out a statement that he is sending 5,000 troops to Kabul to evacuate American, allied embassies and staff and evacuate some of the afghans who worked with America. https://twitter.com/andrewsolender/status/1426632630683021312?s=21
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
Are they even going to make it there fast enough? Like I don't think Kabul will hold out past tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 21:16
|
|
|
It's in the Taliban's interests to let the US evacuate, Kabul is going to fall and they'll still get videos inside the embassy but they can avoid airstrikes if they wait a few days.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 21:19
|
|
|
I don't think the US mission involves whether Kabul is run by the Taliban or not. I think the US troops are just going to set up perimeter around the airbase, the embassy, and whatever paths they need to maintain the evacuation. I believe the US will finish it's withdrawal while the Taliban flag flies over Kabul.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Are they even going to make it there fast enough? Like I don't think Kabul will hold out past tomorrow. It seems like no real skin off the Taliban's noses if they sit back and politely let the US evacuate. They can take Kabul whenever they want, and everyone knows it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 21:24
|
|
|
Dec 6th  , I still want to believe some hard-line sf will hold out for a quarter It seems that we're at least doing something and granting asylum for 150+ guys and their families helping Finns during our ISAF mission
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
can someone please mail this to the presidential palace?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 21:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:31 |
|
|
Vasukhani posted:can someone please mail this to the presidential palace? You mean to the Whitehouse?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2021 21:54
|
|