#QAnon: Slacktivism For Fascists

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > #QAnon: Slacktivism For Fascists

Goon Boots: Feb 2, 2020

BiggerBoat posted:

Until it becomes "really, we meant October". It's a little like how doomsday cultists always have to change their Armageddon scheduling to keep the bullshit train running.

There is a 1950's book written by some psychologists that examines this phenomenon within a small group of eschatologists and what happens when the prophecies ultimately fail. It's pretty interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

# ? Aug 12, 2021 12:03

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# ? May 26, 2024 21:32

RoboChrist 9000: Dec 14, 2006; Mater Dolorosa

I have to wonder if the psychological mathematics change at all when the apocalypse being predicted is at least within the realm of the possible, if still absurdly implausible. Like let's not get back into the internet atheism stuff, but I would imagine we can all agree that literal biblical eschatology and traditional religious beliefs are not within the realm of possibility the same way literally possible events like 'Donald Trump is made president once more' are. One requires you be ignorant of how politics and society work, the other requires literal magic.

You can be a literal atheist and believe in QAnon, is my point, basically. You cannot be an atheist and believe in the imminent return of Jesus Christ. And I wonder if that changes the mental mathematics people use WRT the When Prophecy Fails stuff.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 13:20

pop fly to McGillicutty: Feb 2, 2004; A peckish little mouse!

Phobophilia posted:

Alot of people kill their kids. It can be a depressing thing that happens just. But when you have undiagnosed or subclinical mental health issues, and the Algorithm points you towards High Engagement communities with exacerbate your pre-existing issues, it's more likely to happen. Which happens to be alot of extremely toxic communities like with QAnon, or 4chan, or Kiwifarms, or jihadi groups.

He stabbed his 10 month old and 2 year old with a spear. We are beyond fixing this.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 14:47

PhazonLink: Jul 17, 2010

Goon Boots posted:

There is a 1950's book written by some psychologists that examines this phenomenon within a small group of eschatologists and what happens when the prophecies ultimately fail. It's pretty interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

some what related, KnowingBetter recently posted a 1hour video essay about another American Christian(J Witnesses) group that had its ancestor roots in Miller.

my two take aways ,
1) cults live or die with their 2nd leader.
2) his Donnie ref at the end, he repeats his 2nd leader point. and warns about epoeple tuning out i guess. (lol gently caress fairweathers / 4 year carers)

# ? Aug 12, 2021 16:26

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Looks like Dan Crenshaw ain't making the cut:

https://twitter.com/FPWellman/status/1425846881251381250?s=20

# ? Aug 12, 2021 17:03

Dang It Bhabhi!: May 27, 2004; ASK ME ABOUT
BEING
ESCULA GRIND'S
#1 SIMP

That was soft. Nowhere near Nick Fuentes at a Turning Point event.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 17:17

Carnival of Shrews: Mar 27, 2013; You're not David Attenborough

Lammasu posted:

Qanon guy killed his kids because he thought they had serpent DNA.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...1?ocid=BingHp01

It pisses me off when the 'Serpent Seed' belief gets handwaved as 'a kooky alien reptoid theory that used to be the main schtick of David Icke', when it is very old indeed (like, 400AD minimum), and has had received relatively recent (C19) boosting strongly associated with white supremacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed

Basically: Eve hosed the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, their offspring was Cain, and their malignant bloodline persists to this day. There's a deeply unpleasant man called Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigan� who wrote open letters to Trump in the runup to the last Presidential election, detailing the evils of Serpent Seed people:

https://www.catholic365.com/article/11540/viganos-letter-to-trump-reveals-the-battle.html

Whoever was playing Q back (probably Jim Watkins) then put a link to this very letter in their Q posts to 8chan, I remember noticing it at the time and thinking 'Well, that's not good at all'.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 17:51

Argas: Jan 13, 2008; SRW Fanatic

so it all circles back to cuckolding

# ? Aug 12, 2021 18:41

pthighs: Jun 21, 2013; Pillbug

Sex and death are strong drivers of human behavior.

# ? Aug 12, 2021 19:54

Xand_Man: Mar 2, 2004; If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous

Carnival of Shrews posted:

It pisses me off when the 'Serpent Seed' belief gets handwaved as 'a kooky alien reptoid theory that used to be the main schtick of David Icke', when it is very old indeed (like, 400AD minimum), and has had received relatively recent (C19) boosting strongly associated with white supremacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed

Basically: Eve hosed the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, their offspring was Cain, and their malignant bloodline persists to this day. There's a deeply unpleasant man called Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò who wrote open letters to Trump in the runup to the last Presidential election, detailing the evils of Serpent Seed people:

https://www.catholic365.com/article/11540/viganos-letter-to-trump-reveals-the-battle.html

Whoever was playing Q back (probably Jim Watkins) then put a link to this very letter in their Q posts to 8chan, I remember noticing it at the time and thinking 'Well, that's not good at all'.

Is he a self-proclaimed bishop? Cause that's loving heresy

# ? Aug 12, 2021 20:43

Blotto_Otter: Aug 16, 2013

Xand_Man posted:

Is he a self-proclaimed bishop? Cause that's loving heresy

He's not just a real bishop, he's a former Vatican bigwig and was the Vatican ambassador to the US under the previous pope. He's retired with no formal post now, so he's filled his time by being one of the loudest and craziest voices in the right-wing/anti-Francis faction in the Catholic church. Prior to this open letter, he made a splash in 2018 by exploiting the Cardinal McCarrick sexual abuse scandal to grind his axe with Pope Francis and call for his resignation. The church's internal politics are weird and gross, and the Catholic church in America specifically has just become ever more twisted and dysfunctional as the Trump years go on. (I've got Catholic family members who think serial abuser and twice-divorced Donald Trump was God's gift to man, whereas the second Catholic ever elected president is next worst thing to the Antichrist.)

# ? Aug 12, 2021 21:16

Despera: Jun 6, 2011

He used a spear gun to his children's chest.

Also Trump won mesa county by like 20k votes

# ? Aug 13, 2021 00:34

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

I have to wonder if the psychological mathematics change at all when the apocalypse being predicted is at least within the realm of the possible, if still absurdly implausible. Like let's not get back into the internet atheism stuff, but I would imagine we can all agree that literal biblical eschatology and traditional religious beliefs are not within the realm of possibility the same way literally possible events like 'Donald Trump is made president once more' are. One requires you be ignorant of how politics and society work, the other requires literal magic.

You can be a literal atheist and believe in QAnon, is my point, basically. You cannot be an atheist and believe in the imminent return of Jesus Christ. And I wonder if that changes the mental mathematics people use WRT the When Prophecy Fails stuff.

Maybe. But my gut and personal experience tells me that the number of QANON believers who would label themselves as atheists is pretty small.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 01:02

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

https://twitter.com/KhayaHimmelman/status/1425858748820729858

# ? Aug 13, 2021 06:48

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

Why does he have a single shoe in that one cubby behind him?

# ? Aug 13, 2021 06:52

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

trophy

# ? Aug 13, 2021 07:35

PhazonLink: Jul 17, 2010

1.X, almost 2 years later an people still dont know base level video productions.

0th rule 1) have a sex tool on your shelf.
0th 2 ) have a portrait of Kim Kitsuragi on your wall

# ? Aug 13, 2021 07:42

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Why does he have a single shoe in that one cubby behind him?

for sale: one shoe, from epstein's island

# ? Aug 13, 2021 08:46

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

https://twitter.com/purefun65/status/1426111853105668098?s=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDjERJ04oTE

# ? Aug 13, 2021 15:50

Rich Uncle Chet: Jan 20, 2005; The Law? Law is a Human Institution.

So after Reinstatement Day do we start Infrastructure Week?

# ? Aug 13, 2021 16:38

turnip kid: May 24, 2010

Carnival of Shrews posted:

It pisses me off when the 'Serpent Seed' belief gets handwaved as 'a kooky alien reptoid theory that used to be the main schtick of David Icke', when it is very old indeed (like, 400AD minimum), and has had received relatively recent (C19) boosting strongly associated with white supremacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed

Basically: Eve hosed the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, their offspring was Cain, and their malignant bloodline persists to this day. There's a deeply unpleasant man called Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigan� who wrote open letters to Trump in the runup to the last Presidential election, detailing the evils of Serpent Seed people:

https://www.catholic365.com/article/11540/viganos-letter-to-trump-reveals-the-battle.html

Whoever was playing Q back (probably Jim Watkins) then put a link to this very letter in their Q posts to 8chan, I remember noticing it at the time and thinking 'Well, that's not good at all'.

Isn't the Serpent Seed belief the basis for Christian Identity, which claims Jews are Satan's children?

# ? Aug 13, 2021 17:40

RoboChrist 9000: Dec 14, 2006; Mater Dolorosa

BiggerBoat posted:

Maybe. But my gut and personal experience tells me that the number of QANON believers who would label themselves as atheists is pretty small.

Oh, no doubt, but I mean it's more about the fact that the amount and sort of faith required is different. I suspect that all but the most fanatical of theists, people who believe truly and deeply in the trutho of their religion, still recognize by and large that there is a difference between the statements 'when I die I shall enjoy life everlasting in Paradise.' and 'tomorrow the sun will rise.' Both are things they accept as fact, but I imagine that all but the most fanatical of zealots would recognize there is a requirement for faith in the supernatural behind one and not the other.

Which is my point about how the Qult may change up the traditional psychological calculus regarding When Prophecy Fails. 'Trump will be reinstated as president via a 'soft' coup' is well outside the realm of plausibility, but it is not ipso facto a supernatural claim the same way 'I will be taken bodily into heaven/the halle bop alien spacecraft' is. Nothing about the QAnon dogma requires explicit belief in the supernatural or even in that which conventional reason or science holds to be impossible. Improbable and implausible, yes, but not impossible the way the Rapture or life after death is to anyone who does not believe.

I do not believe anything QAnon teaches, but I recognize that the things they say are - in the most technical and literal sense of the word - possible.

TL;DR: Does it matter to how people react to failed prophecies when the prophecies are about things that are merely extremely improbable rather than literally impossible (assuming for the sake of argument that we all can agree on a rational and atheistic view of reality)

# ? Aug 13, 2021 20:48

Carnival of Shrews: Mar 27, 2013; You're not David Attenborough

turnip kid posted:

Isn't the Serpent Seed belief the basis for Christian Identity, which claims Jews are Satan's children?

Yes it is (though sometimes 'Satan's children' covers additional nonwhite groups).

Of course, it's not possible to completely dissect apart Icke-style 'Reptoid Alien Overlord' theory and 'Serpent Seed' theory, because the former is so rooted in the latter, through a roundabout folklore, fantasy and sci-fi route. But if a man who murdered his infant children says the idea that caused him to commit this crime was specifically the threat of 'serpent DNA', IMO the source of his delusion could well be the old pseudo-Biblical canard, pipelined through Qanon.

Because there's a direct link. A Catholic Archbishop (Vigan� is no mere Bishop) who's been criticised by many within his own faith, but not excommunicated, stated in open letters in 2020 that some people are the descendants of Eve and the Serpent, not Eve and Adam: innately evil beings for whom no redemption is possible. And Trump boasted on Twitter about these letters, and Q (whoever that was back then, probably Jim Watkins) confirmed them as Qanon.

That said, I don't think there's a super-organised movement to push the 'some people have snake traits and are evil' idea, and I don't think there needs to be. These notions are very, very old. They've burrowed way into pop culture since at least the days of Conan the Barbarian; they pop up (of course) in the Narnia tales, they're all over the place in Harry Potter, and even my kid nephew, who loves Ninjago, asked me '...but aren't there any good Serpentine? Why not?'

# ? Aug 13, 2021 21:57

Twelve by Pies: May 4, 2012; Again a very likpatous story

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:

But did he keep his underwear on for the entire duration of the video conference?

# ? Aug 13, 2021 22:01

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

TL;DR: Does it matter to how people react to failed prophecies when the prophecies are about things that are merely extremely improbable rather than literally impossible (assuming for the sake of argument that we all can agree on a rational and atheistic view of reality)

Not to go all "I'm an atheist and therefore smarter than everyone" but I think the suspension of disbelief required to believe in some of the more far out stories in the Bible as well as all the crazy Qanon flowcharts has a lot of crossover "logic" being applied.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 23:18

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jim_Brunner/status/1426202962297200646

Pillowcon is now asserting that the Chinese hacked elections in blue states in order to make Biden's popular vote lead look bigger.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 23:20

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

BiggerBoat posted:

Not to go all "I'm an atheist and therefore smarter than everyone" but I think the suspension of disbelief required to believe in some of the more far out stories in the Bible as well as all the crazy Qanon flowcharts has a lot of crossover "logic" being applied.

I think the crossover is where faith becomes bad faith. Fred Clark has said before that there's a bunch of spiritual things that one can only believe as faith, because things like "where does the immortal soul go after death" aren't material questions; then there's material things where some kind of actual evidence might help, and the idea that "millions of our neighbors are murderous servants of Lucifer, slaughtering innocent babies by the millions" deliberately abuses framing from the former in order to manipulate how people think about the latter.

That's Q, the Satanic Panic, the Witch Hunts, the Rapture, the Serpent Seed, and the Preordained Return of Trump all in one. Just because some parts might be more feasible as material matters (it is architecturally possible that someone made a big underground tunnel to fill with babies that they eat, but much less so that actual Satan appeared and told them to do it) doesn't change that the internal reasons for someone believing any part of it are the same.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 23:47

RoboChrist 9000: Dec 14, 2006; Mater Dolorosa

BiggerBoat posted:

Not to go all "I'm an atheist and therefore smarter than everyone" but I think the suspension of disbelief required to believe in some of the more far out stories in the Bible as well as all the crazy Qanon flowcharts has a lot of crossover "logic" being applied.

Yes and no. Like I said, the thing about QAnon is that on the surface it IS compatible with a strictly atheistic and materialistic view of reality. It does not require magic or the supernatural.

The Cabal is not an intrinsically magical idea. I mean, as leftists we more or less agree that a sinister cabal of privileged evil fucks rule the world. We just disagree on the whos, hows, and whys. And while some iterations of QAnon have the Cabal as explicitly Satanic in nature, in others they are merely sci-fi rather than fantasy villains and harvest adrenochrome rather than souls or blood magic. And likewise, in many versions, still, things are more 'grounded' - as with the Satanic Panic or with Aztec folks sacrificing people to Huitzilopoctli, it is not necessary that these deities exist, merely that people believe they do. It is not necessary for Satan to exist or for adrenochrome to give you longevity like the loving Spice, merely that the Cabal believes he does/it does. And further, some versions cut out the ritual or practical aspects of the sacrifice angle entirely and just have it that the Cabal are degenerate pedophiles and, I mean, look at who our last president was. Clearly the idea of the world being run by degenerate and decadent pedophiles is, to say the least, not outside the realm of possibility.

And so on and so forth. Again, while we all agree there is no realistic version of Earth where Donald Trump is reinstated as president, I still say that we can all agree, I would hope, that it does not contradict what is commonly understood as 'possible' the same way as saying 'the son of God who is also God himself will return after 2000 years of absence to judge humanity in a final apocalypse.'

While it's a cult and a religion, it also feels like QAnon has itself structured in such a way that I feel like the adherents can very easily believe it's not a religion. There's nothing magical or supernatural about it.

# ? Aug 13, 2021 23:59

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

If magic is real then it's not magic, it's just the way the world works. I think the distinction between natural and supernatural presupposes that one is false, otherwise it makes no sense.

Then again I'm an atheist so maybe I just don't understand the mindset in the first place.

# ? Aug 14, 2021 00:02

pseudanonymous: Aug 30, 2008; When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

BiggerBoat posted:

Not to go all "I'm an atheist and therefore smarter than everyone" but I think the suspension of disbelief required to believe in some of the more far out stories in the Bible as well as all the crazy Qanon flowcharts has a lot of crossover "logic" being applied.

Personally, this is why I think "closely held religious beliefs" being somehow sacrosanct is a huge problem.

Does it really matter if you believe a jew was actually a fully human fully divine lich lord who can raise the dead and perform alchemy and if you eat his flesh and drink his blood you'll live forever? Probably not, except when it causes you to vote in a law that says a 12 year old can't get an abortion when her dad rapes her, and if that law get's challenged then people rely on a 2,000 year old book that nobody actually wrote down.

But we play this game where if someone "has a closely held belief" then it can't be criticized, and how is Christianity really that different from Q-anon? I mean Q-anon is newer, so it still squeaks, but I don't think its an order of magnitude more absurd than "there's a cabal of sex predators who run the world for their own gain" because that's not absurd at all, it's true.

# ? Aug 14, 2021 01:10

JonathonSpectre: Jul 23, 2003; I replaced the Shermatar and text with this because I don't wanna see racial slurs every time you post what the fuck; Soiled Meat

pseudanonymous posted:

Personally, this is why I think "closely held religious beliefs" being somehow sacrosanct is a huge problem.

But we play this game where if someone "has a closely held belief" then it can't be criticized, and how is Christianity really that different from Q-anon? I mean Q-anon is newer, so it still squeaks, but I don't think its an order of magnitude more absurd than "there's a cabal of sex predators who run the world for their own gain" because that's not absurd at all, it's true.

"My closely-held religious belief is that all your closely-held religious beliefs are bullshit."

Listen, Hitler was a true believer, you can't criticize him.

# ? Aug 14, 2021 14:11

pop fly to McGillicutty: Feb 2, 2004; A peckish little mouse!

ShadowHawk posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Jim_Brunner/status/1426202962297200646

Pillowcon is now asserting that the Chinese hacked elections in blue states in order to make Biden's popular vote lead look bigger.

Lol the "win" is "we still lost".

# ? Aug 14, 2021 14:37

Xand_Man: Mar 2, 2004; If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous

pop fly to McGillicutty posted:

Lol the "win" is "we still lost".

Washington has voted blue since 1988 and Trump pulled <40% here. They're delusional but they're not crazy

# ? Aug 14, 2021 15:32

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

pseudanonymous posted:

Personally, this is why I think "closely held religious beliefs" being somehow sacrosanct is a huge problem.

Does it really matter if you believe a jew was actually a fully human fully divine lich lord who can raise the dead and perform alchemy and if you eat his flesh and drink his blood you'll live forever? Probably not, except when it causes you to vote in a law that says a 12 year old can't get an abortion when her dad rapes her, and if that law get's challenged then people rely on a 2,000 year old book that nobody actually wrote down.

But we play this game where if someone "has a closely held belief" then it can't be criticized, and how is Christianity really that different from Q-anon? I mean Q-anon is newer, so it still squeaks, but I don't think its an order of magnitude more absurd than "there's a cabal of sex predators who run the world for their own gain" because that's not absurd at all, it's true.

This is a good post.

I've always wondered why my personally held religious beliefs as a non believer don't carry over and aren't regarded with the same respect to which I'm expected to cede to someone that calls me a sinner and poo poo. NOT believing in that stuff IS my personally held opinion and strong belief. Worse, when laws are passed with Christian heavily overtones and I'm expected to shut about it if I have a problem with that. I remember a poll somewhere where people would vote for a Muslim over an atheist for president or something like that.

I don't particularly feel persecuted as an atheist but I damned sure don't garner the same levels of automatic respect and tolerance as a foul acting "good christian" does.

# ? Aug 14, 2021 15:37

Trazz: Jun 11, 2008

BiggerBoat posted:

I don't particularly feel persecuted as an atheist but I damned sure don't garner the same levels of automatic respect and tolerance as a foul acting "good christian" does.

There's a reason for this. It's easier(and thus expected) for an atheist to "play along" with a theist; however, the theist cannot respect the atheist because the theist is unable to drop his act for even a second, or else he might have to acknowledge that it's all an act.

This "one-way respect" also applies to conservatism, which is why there's such a big overlap between these things.

Trazz fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Aug 14, 2021

# ? Aug 14, 2021 17:40

RoboChrist 9000: Dec 14, 2006; Mater Dolorosa

pseudanonymous posted:

Personally, this is why I think "closely held religious beliefs" being somehow sacrosanct is a huge problem.

Does it really matter if you believe a jew was actually a fully human fully divine lich lord who can raise the dead and perform alchemy and if you eat his flesh and drink his blood you'll live forever? Probably not, except when it causes you to vote in a law that says a 12 year old can't get an abortion when her dad rapes her, and if that law get's challenged then people rely on a 2,000 year old book that nobody actually wrote down.

But we play this game where if someone "has a closely held belief" then it can't be criticized, and how is Christianity really that different from Q-anon? I mean Q-anon is newer, so it still squeaks, but I don't think its an order of magnitude more absurd than "there's a cabal of sex predators who run the world for their own gain" because that's not absurd at all, it's true.

I mean the incarnation and the trinitarian notions of godhead are both literally A = !A levels of nonsense. Christianity is unambiguously more absurd and irrational than QAnon.
But that's also kind of why QAnon is so dangerous and deadly. Look at Mormonism. Granted, I imagine industrial civilization and quite probably our species will be dead before we reach that point, but if QAnon is allowed to fester and is generally tolerated then it is only a matter of time before it becomes something like Mormonism or, at worst, the popular understanding of Scientology. 'That weird religion for harmless idiots.'

# ? Aug 14, 2021 18:07

Lucasar: Jan 25, 2005; save a few for lefty too

Trazz posted:

There's a reason for this. It's easier(and thus expected) for an atheist to "play along" with a theist, however, the theist cannot respect the atheist because the theist is unable to drop his act for even a second, or else he might have to acknowledge that it's all an act.

I grew up going to church and fairly sheltered and conservative. While I'm no expert, in my experience there are quite a lot of well-meaning, sincere people. While of course they all doubt their faiths from time to time, I think for many of them they are not consciously putting on a show for the benefit of others, rather they are trying to wrestle with a philosophy and way of thinking that can be difficult to sustain. Whether that wrestling involves sticking their fingers in their ears and excluding or attacking people who think differently will depend to a large degree on the qualities of their community and leadership at the local level.

If we think about these sincere believers, I think they see themselves as submitting to a greater power and a greater mystery. In their minds, the stereotypical atheist, because they only believe what can be proven to them, is seen as proud or arrogant. Other theistic groups (though heathens!) at least manifest a similar submission to the divine, and while they are seen as very wrong about its nature, revelation, ethics, and doctrine, there is a recognizable posture of devotion (instead of haughty, solipsistic, know-it-all atheism).

Atheism is also defined in many Christian minds as sort of a negative theology - it is an absence of belief, rather than a different belief. Atheists are not seen as representing an organized movement or community, and so they can't really invoke "traditions" in the way that a neighboring religion could. Unless of course we count communism as an organized atheist movement, but the reaction against communism is hardly limited to (or even universal among) Christian communities.

And many theists feel that they are also "playing along." I remember feeling awkward as hell as a young guy in school praying and giving thanks before my lunch at school because nobody else was doing it. Or being the only kid who couldn't watch certain TV shows or listen to certain music. I was just doing what my parents told me was right and what I believed God preferred. And what God wants is something we were told you must, at least theoretically, be willing to die for. It was my distinct feeling in those days that the atheist, agnostic, or merely non-Christian kids had no idea the stakes involved in even simple things like this! For them, a TV show was just a cool story about ninja turtles, but for me it was a step down the wrong path, a path at the end of which lay separation from God and possibly damnation. One of my best friends in middle school was a devout Muslim, and I felt comfortable with him because when he wouldn't eat food that wasn't halal, it was a recognizable expression of this same devotion and/or anxiety.

Post got a little long, and I'm not trying to justify the of othering atheists or the beliefs of Chrisitans. Just sharing my experiences from the inside of that mindset in a way that doesn't just take for granted they are all self-righteous hypocrites playing pretend (although those also exist, are abundant, and usually are highly outspoken and performative).

# ? Aug 14, 2021 18:23