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You can't have a game set in Vegas and then remove the Luck stat.
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Aug 17, 2021 10:26
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Ghost Leviathan posted:You can't have a game set in Vegas and then remove the Luck stat. First good point made in this entire thread.
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Aug 17, 2021 10:33
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You can if you rig the game from the start.
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Aug 17, 2021 10:46
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Coolness Averted posted:Nine point alignment chart are iconic memes and to keep the grognards happy -that's literally the stated reasons by big brained Mike Mearls.
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Aug 17, 2021 13:18
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Nine-point alignment on the character sheet doesn't bother me very much. I don't even mind using it to classify other planes of reality and stuff! When it starts to bother me is when you have these ridiculous situations like how a demon can be Creature Type: Outsider (Evil) but their alignment can actually change to something else. Or worse, the impact of Detect Alignment on a setting. Don't make good and evil into damage types and weird pseudo-particles.Coolness Averted posted:I mean I'm sure a fan might have found a better use for it, but it's still worth stating it was only included for the dumbest possible reason by the actual devs. Mearls literally came out and said during next that 9 point alignment had to come back and have some mechanical interaction because everyone knew & loved alignment chart memes. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 17, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2021 14:27
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Halloween Jack posted:He also said "No warlords because martial healing isn't appropriate for a Harry Potter based D&D game." Brainworms design. did he forget about the second wind feature..?
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Aug 17, 2021 14:31
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He was possibly never aware of it.
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Aug 17, 2021 14:37
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you cant shout arms back on
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Aug 17, 2021 14:52
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90s Cringe Rock posted:you cant shout arms back on of course, that game didn't have rules for arms coming off in the first place, so they weren't needed
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Aug 17, 2021 16:49
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you CAN bed rest arms back on. you can NOT yell arms back on. its basic verisimilitude.
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Aug 17, 2021 17:58
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wait gently caress I mean ADVANCED verisimilitude 3.5
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Aug 17, 2021 17:58
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Reading the Mage2E core book is making me remember how bad all of the extremely offputting line art from the first edition book was. Was there ever a story behind that or anything? I kinda got that the three main gamelines were trying to each have very distinctive styles but Mage's style ended up as "a terrifying coloring book you hallucinate before you die of a 105* fever".
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Aug 17, 2021 18:04
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Xiahou Dun posted:1) If alignment is vestigial, why should it be kept around? I said almost vestigial. It has a few purposes. First there's the meme value. Second there's grognard appeal meaning they weren't going to get rid of it. Third some obvious, crude characterisation. Fourth there's a handful of effects that interact with alignment; the Paladin's auto-detect-evil is annoying and silly, but major magical artifacts like the Book of Vile Darkness or a Talisman of Pure Good? Sure. (The Great Wheel? No thanks - but the 5e Realms cosmology owes more to 4e than 2e anyway; it's basically the World Axis in the middle with the Wheel being the most distant parts and replacing the Astral Sea). Is nine point alignment something I'd create from scratch? No. But it's been beaten back into its corner and once put in its place is far more useful and comprehensible than e.g. Werewolf the Apocalypse's Galiard/Ragabash/Philodox/Arhoun/Theurge (I think that's the set) that are basically nonsense words. With almost no mechanics except when things get weird and only two easily understood words it has very little overhead, especially when in a post-Tasha's world it's vanished from monster statblocks. quote:2) I can kind of guess that "accessible" here means something like, "easy to fit inside a given mental framework". Is that what you were going for? Like the name/description of the class make you think of some kind of cultural touchstone, e.g. "fighter" and Conan or "paladin" and Roland? I vehemently disagree if that's the case but we'd at least be using the same term to mean the same thing. Pretty much - but Conan and Roland are both pretty obscure. If I were looking for modern mythology I wouldn't be looking at stories published almost 90 years ago let alone about 900 years ago. Instead I'd be looking at things from this century. Our strongest cultural touchstones are things that have made it to pop culture, starting with the MCU and video game tropes. And as I spent quite a lot of words demonstrating video game tropes are frequently to the point of incestuously derived from D&D. It's 'Fighter' and WoW Fighter and Cloud Strife and Captain America and possibly Gimli these days. And like it or not fighter works because WoW fighter and because FFXIV Warrior and because Dragon Age Warrior. Of course those classes are all traceable back to the D&D fighter (with the original Final Fantasy Warrior being called the Fighter in the NES version) quote:3) I have no idea what "strongly drawn" would mean on any level. Could you elaborate? One of the things character classes do is provide much of the high concept for a given character fast and easily. You can tell quite a lot about a character from just the class names of the 11+1 5e classes with the biggest questions being "how are sorcerers and wizards different?" and "why isn't barbarian a subclass of fighter"*, but those take only seconds to explain and the mechanics back up the distinctiveness. You never have to ask the question "Wtf is an ardent?" or "How is an avenger different from a paladin?" (I'm picking on 4e because it's a much harder target than 3.X or 2e here). The individual classes are in this sense strongly drawn in that they communicate what a character does and are distinct from each other. The subclasses are almost as strongly drawn; it's relatively obvious how the mastermind rogue should differ from the swashbuckler rogue, the thief rogue, or the soulknife rogue (even if the soulknife needs a touch of explaining and is a callback to one of the worst classes ever). * The 3.0 barbarian was IMO a mistake and one of the many things dragging 3.0 fighters down; there was no reason at all it shouldn't have been feats for the fighter. By contrast, the 5e barbarian, after passing through the hands of 4e, allows for supernatural and mostly primal rages and opens the game up to things like the Path of the Storm Herald that would make for an awkward fighter.
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Aug 17, 2021 18:22
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Alignment is still around because people like to categorize things, especially using grid based systems. It's like astrology, or Harry Potter houses, or online personality quizzes. It's fun to put things into simple, evocative boxes, even if nobody agrees on what exactly those boxes mean.
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Aug 17, 2021 19:44
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i like alignment because its fun and i dont have to take it seriously but if i did have to take it seriously i would not like it
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Aug 17, 2021 19:52
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mellonbread posted:It's fun to put things into simple, evocative boxes, even if nobody agrees on what exactly those boxes mean.
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Aug 17, 2021 20:22
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The 5-point alignment system is straight up better than the 9-point one at the things people claim justify its existence except for appealing to grogs, a demographic that should instead be told to gently caress off.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Aug 17, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2021 20:48
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neonchameleon posted:But it's been beaten back into its corner and once put in its place is far more useful and comprehensible than e.g. Werewolf the Apocalypse's Galiard/Ragabash/Philodox/Arhoun/Theurge (I think that's the set) that are basically nonsense words. With almost no mechanics except when things get weird and only two easily understood words it has very little overhead, especially when in a post-Tasha's world it's vanished from monster statblocks. Personally I think "there's these astrological signs that determine what gifts the moon will give you and society's expectations of you" is way cooler than the d&d alignment system, and not really comparable, but Werewolf was also the first RPG I really liked after bouncing off of D&D really hard.
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Aug 17, 2021 20:52
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The original gameplay value of alignment was "Will these creatures attack me on sight? Can I recruit them maybe?"
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Aug 17, 2021 21:01
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I think the one thing we can all agree on about alignment is that the attempts by other game designers to ape the 9-axis alignment grid in the early 90s were stupid and insane. I'm looking at you, Rifts and World of Synnibarr...
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Aug 17, 2021 21:03
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KingKalamari posted:I think the one thing we can all agree on about alignment is that the attempts by other game designers to ape the 9-axis alignment grid in the early 90s were stupid and insane. I'm looking at you, Rifts and World of Synnibarr...
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Aug 17, 2021 21:23
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Lemon-Lime posted:The 5-point alignment system is straight up better than the 9-point one at the things people claim justify its existence except for appealing to grogs, a demographic that should instead be told to gently caress off.
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Aug 17, 2021 21:31
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I'm always fascinated when people on this site use the term "grogs". Of all the RPG boards I've ever posted on, this is the only one that still regularly fights edition wars.
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Aug 17, 2021 21:39
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make the alignment chart even better by adding a third axis for polite/rude to turn it into a cube
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Aug 17, 2021 21:44
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They should just replace the alignment chart with the political compass, which is effectively the same thing rotated and flipped.
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Aug 17, 2021 21:50
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I've seen lots of people make political compasses for their RPG worlds. The best ones slice off the default axes and replace them with something more appropriate to their settings.
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Aug 17, 2021 22:11
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mellonbread posted:I'm always fascinated when people on this site use the term "grogs". Of all the RPG boards I've ever posted on, this is the only one that still regularly fights edition wars.
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Aug 17, 2021 22:29
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mellonbread posted:I'm always fascinated when people on this site use the term "grogs". Of all the RPG boards I've ever posted on, this is the only one that still regularly fights edition wars.
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Aug 17, 2021 22:32
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pog boyfriend posted:make the alignment chart even better by adding a third axis for polite/rude to turn it into a cube I like this idea, because if I can come up with a couple more axes I can generate a five-dimensional alignment... object and I'm sure that's useful for something.
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Aug 17, 2021 22:33
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potatocubed posted:I like this idea, because if I can come up with a couple more axes I can generate a five-dimensional alignment... object and I'm sure that's useful for something.
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Aug 17, 2021 22:35
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mellonbread posted:I'm always fascinated when people on this site use the term "grogs". Of all the RPG boards I've ever posted on, this is the only one that still regularly fights edition wars. At least when I use it I don’t mean edition slap fight stuff but am specifically mocking toxic nostalgia. For me it’s the difference between just preferring an older game or whatever and preferring something just because it’s old. And especially people who call changes a “slap in the face” or whatever. No idea if that’s truly how everyone here means it, but enough people understand me when I use it that it can’t be some unheard and novel definition. (neonchameleon, totally gonna respond, just waiting to get to a real keyboard later.)
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Aug 17, 2021 22:40
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pog boyfriend posted:make the alignment chart even better by adding a third axis for polite/rude to turn it into a cube ALIGN CUBE 4 simultaneous alignments Detected in the same 1st level CLERIC spell The educated stupid should acknowledge the natural modron of+1 x +1 = +1and
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Aug 17, 2021 22:46
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BrainParasite posted:They should just replace the alignment chart with the political compass, which is effectively the same thing rotated and flipped. I say replace the "Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic" vs "Good-Neutral-Evil" grid with the "Edgy-Depress-Dumbass" vs "Bitch-Thot-Bastard" meme chart thing!
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Aug 17, 2021 22:50
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KingKalamari posted:I say replace the "Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic" vs "Good-Neutral-Evil" grid with the "Edgy-Depress-Dumbass" vs "Bitch-Thot-Bastard" meme chart thing! I originally wanted to go with the Angry, Sad, Horny, Hungry, Stressed diagram. No matter how realistic, it's a chore to keep track of.
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Aug 17, 2021 22:56
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potatocubed posted:I like this idea, because if I can come up with a couple more axes I can generate a five-dimensional alignment... object and I'm sure that's useful for something. literally just add the meyers briggs personality thing in directly and you have a 7 dimensional alignment
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Aug 17, 2021 23:08
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breadnsucc fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2021 23:27
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dwarf74 posted:I don't think most OSR games nowadays are even bothering with alignment - particularly of the two-axis tic-tac-toe kind. So it's an especially weird complaint, imo. Yeah if it comes up at all in any major way it's pretty much only of the Law/Order vs Chaos variety(with Neutral/Balance sometimes as a third force) because that version is much easier to work with
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Aug 17, 2021 23:43
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dwarf74 posted:I don't think most OSR games nowadays are even bothering with alignment - particularly of the two-axis tic-tac-toe kind. So it's an especially weird complaint, imo. I don't think you can use OSR and grogs interchangeably.
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Aug 18, 2021 00:19
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pog boyfriend posted:literally just add the meyers briggs personality thing in directly and you have a 7 dimensional alignment You joke, but the RPG Reich Star used Meyers-Briggs as a major part of character creation.
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Aug 18, 2021 00:26
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't think you can use OSR and grogs interchangeably.
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Aug 18, 2021 00:52
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