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If I see love of it from anyone these days it's primarily 3.X and Pathfinder fans.
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Aug 18, 2021 01:02
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dwarf74 posted:You absolutely cannot, I agree. But if it was primarily grogs driving it, you'd nevertheless expect to see more of it in the groggier OSR games. It's not even in poo poo like LotFP, is it? I only remember the 9-square grid in OSRIC, which is explicitly an AD&D clone. I also think when talking about 5e's design it's absolutely fair to still say grognards, because 1 of the 2 stated primary design goals was to appeal to them and bring them back. The other stated design goal was the mythical "modules make it the d&d for everyone!" so having ditched that it was strictly the regressive game for regressive gamers. Ironically those same regressive people were also ditched when Hasbro being an actual corporation didn't just keep a niche game for them, but branched out and marketed to everyone and absolutely in 2018-2021 made WotC pretend the people specifically pandered to way back in 2012-2015 were flukes and "random playtesters we knew nothing about and never actually weighed the opinions of."
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Aug 18, 2021 01:23
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I'm a grog (see the Scarlet 'G' as my avatar that someone gave me years ago) and I am not a fan of 5e
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Aug 18, 2021 01:32
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I kinda liked 5e. But it was more from the ideas and potential it had that it totally squandered by releasing like a single book every 15 months and the lead designer repeatedly and atrociously going to bat for a serial abuser. now I run "d&d" in PF2E, which is weirdly awesome and exactly what 5E actually should have been all along, don't freaking @ me
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Aug 18, 2021 02:04
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If you liked 5e's ideas and potential, try checking out 2e where they came from. This isn't a snarky shitpost - the best 5e lore is legit just watered down 2e content. 13th Age also accomplished all the 5e design goals before they were stated.
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Aug 18, 2021 02:07
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Speaking of 13th Age, we're in the final 36 hours or so of the 13th Age Humble Bundle so you can pay ~$40 for all your 'DnD5e but better' needs.
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Aug 18, 2021 04:47
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moths posted:If you liked 5e's ideas and potential, try checking out 2e where they came from. This isn't a snarky shitpost - the best 5e lore is legit just watered down 2e content. Any time I'm running something in 5e, I'm reading old 2e books for lore and ideas for sure. There's so much fun stuff to dig into.
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Aug 18, 2021 07:29
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moths posted:If you liked 5e's ideas and potential, try checking out 2e where they came from. This isn't a snarky shitpost - the best 5e lore is legit just watered down 2e content. Did you mean to write "try checking out 4e where they came from"? The best 5e lore is legit just watered down 4e content. Meanwhile e.g. 2e brings us things like the Great Wheel with an Afterlife For Every Half-Alignment while the good parts of the cosmological lore that are places that you can visit and aren't tied to the alignment (Feywild/Shadowfell/Elemental Chaos) are straight from 4e.
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Aug 18, 2021 09:36
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I like the great wheel. I like how it felt interconnected and vast
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Aug 18, 2021 11:44
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The great wheel is great As a unicycle For a clown to ride on At the circus
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Aug 18, 2021 11:53
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90s Cringe Rock posted:The great wheel is great Some day. Some day I will put the Dominions Clowns and their deep Clown Lore into an RPG.
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Aug 18, 2021 12:37
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the best alignment chart is the purist/neutral/radical grid, mostly because arguing about how pop tarts are a ravioli is more fun than arguing about how orcs are usually chaotic evil.
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Aug 18, 2021 13:13
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Night10194 posted:Some day. Some day I will put the Dominions Clowns and their deep Clown Lore into an RPG. Genuinely don't know if it would be better to be clowns or be the mortals who live among clowns. (Clowns WOD splat)
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Aug 18, 2021 13:32
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:I like the great wheel. I like how it felt interconnected and vast YMMV. For me it felt like nothing more than a box-ticking exercise that destroyed the mystical nature and variation I'd expect in there being different afterlives and narrowed things down both by the planes being "infinite" (and thus ultimately pretty homogenous) and by being complete rather than having the potential of new realms to explore.
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Aug 18, 2021 13:41
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Leraika posted:the best alignment chart is the purist/neutral/radical grid, mostly because arguing about how pop tarts are a ravioli is more fun than arguing about how orcs are usually chaotic evil. Orcs are clearly hurngry.
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Aug 18, 2021 13:48
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neonchameleon posted:YMMV. For me it felt like nothing more than a box-ticking exercise that destroyed the mystical nature and variation I'd expect in there being different afterlives and narrowed things down both by the planes being "infinite" (and thus ultimately pretty homogenous) and by being complete rather than having the potential of new realms to explore.
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Aug 18, 2021 13:51
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:You joke, but the RPG Reich Star used Meyers-Briggs as a major part of character creation. Sanguine's Albedo RPG as well.
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Aug 18, 2021 15:05
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The solution I like to go with for alignment is to have any divine magic that references good or evil work according to the moral code of the god who's providing it, and for every god to have their own moral code that's incompatible with every other god's.
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Aug 18, 2021 16:21
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Night10194 posted:Some day. Some day I will put the Dominions Clowns and their deep Clown Lore into an RPG. My Google-fu is weak. What are Dominions Clowns?
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Aug 18, 2021 16:21
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CitizenKeen posted:My Google-fu is weak. What are Dominions Clowns? Someone made a mod for a nation of clown for the grog-y multiplayer map game about warring gods, Dominions.
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Aug 18, 2021 16:30
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CitizenKeen posted:My Google-fu is weak. What are Dominions Clowns? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3902681&pagenumber=1&perpage=40 Dominions is an impenetrable video game that makes excellent LPs
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Aug 18, 2021 16:40
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I knew the word Dominion from two things: the original deck builder, and the impenetrable Goon-beloved god sim, and I thought "Clearly there are clowns in neither of these things." Yup. Yup yup yup.
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Aug 18, 2021 17:11
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side_burned posted:Can you go into why its too many stats? Most games separate STR and CON because that's how D&D does it. That makes sense in a game where Melee Combat, Carrying Stuff, and Forcing Doors Open are key tasks. But most games, even most D&D games, aren't set entirely in a dungeon. D&D 4th Edition really illustrates the problem--they changed the rules so that various sword-wizard classes can make melee attacks using the same stat they use to cast spells. That was a good idea, but it revealed how STR is vestigial for anyone who isn't a martial melee fighter. STR and CON each get one skill associated with them. (The flipside of this particular example is that CON is usually a purely defensive attribute; you don't roll it to actively attempt to do anything. You just roll it to not die--assuming you even roll it, instead of the stat just factoring into hit points and other derived stats like saving throws.) Now, you can argue that combining STR and CON isn't "realistic," but neither is a DEX stat that covers every type of physical coordination, an INT stat that covers every kind of intelligence, and so on down the line. Some games try to make a given stat (and it usually is STR) more valuable with what I'll call "taxes." Recoil rules for guns, minimum STR requirements to wield a weapon or wear heavy armor, etc. The first problem with this is that you're not rewarding a high stat, you're just punishing a low stat. "I have high STR so I don't take a penalty to fire a machinegun" isn't something the player characters are actively doing. The second problem is that you've added fussy little rules; the kind of rules that don't really impact gameplay if you forget to use them. Another problem is that like Alhazred said, too many stats means the players are stretched thin when creating characters. They're going to want to have some high stats and dump others, and it creates absurd situations where they're really good at a couple skills but really lovely at other skills that seem like they should be closely related. Now in percentile-based systems, you can do stuff like have a Wrestling skill where the base chance is (2*STR + DEX) and a Martial Arts skill where it's (2*DEX + STR) and so on. Maybe both INT and WIS are important for First Aid, you get the idea. But this is usually done for the sake of "realism." This also creates room for oddball stats like LUCK that can't really stand on their own--but then you have to ask why you're using that stat at all. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Aug 18, 2021 |
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Aug 18, 2021 18:20
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CitizenKeen posted:I knew the word Dominion from two things: the original deck builder, and the impenetrable Goon-beloved god sim, and I thought "Clearly there are clowns in neither of these things."  
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Aug 18, 2021 18:45
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God dammit.
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Aug 18, 2021 19:06
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mellonbread posted:I'm always fascinated when people on this site use the term "grogs". Of all the RPG boards I've ever posted on, this is the only one that still regularly fights edition wars. dwarf74 posted:I don't think most OSR games nowadays are even bothering with alignment - particularly of the two-axis tic-tac-toe kind. So it's an especially weird complaint, imo. Xiahou Dun posted:At least when I use it I don’t mean edition slap fight stuff but am specifically mocking toxic nostalgia. For me it’s the difference between just preferring an older game or whatever and preferring something just because it’s old. And especially people who call changes a “slap in the face” or whatever. Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't think you can use OSR and grogs interchangeably. dwarf74 posted:You absolutely cannot, I agree. But if it was primarily grogs driving it, you'd nevertheless expect to see more of it in the groggier OSR games. It's not even in poo poo like LotFP, is it?
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Aug 18, 2021 19:57
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CHIMlord posted:Sanguine's Albedo RPG as well. The main thing it does there is determine if you have +4/+0, +3/+1, or +2/+2 or vice versa spread across your Clout/Drive stats. Which is significant, don't get me wrong. Both those stat pools matter a ton since spending the Social ones is how you lead people (which you must do as every PC is an officer, with highly useful attached NPC squaddies who will panic and go to poo poo if the PC can't lead them) and the Drive points go down every time disturbing things happen in combat and you need them to boost most of your combat rolls or 'do something difficult under fire' checks. But all it is is effectively distributing some points, just attached to a psych thing because in-setting the dominant government loves psych metrics.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:56
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Tulip posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3902681&pagenumber=1&perpage=40 I am now legally obliged to deluge you with a sampling of clown units from the clown mod for noted game for clowns: Dominions 5.       
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Aug 19, 2021 01:24
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It's true, a joke by a 6 meter clown is insanely funny. E: The power of Deep Clown Lore is that A: It's funny and B: It's actually extremely internally consistent with itself somehow and produces a surprisingly coherent nation and C: It's written in exactly the same tone as other Dominions Lore, which is usually talking about like, a hellish centaur who is eternally on fire or something except here it's about how clowns with big hats become central to mythology. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 03:30
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The Fall from Heaven mod for Civ IV also has a clown civilization. But their flavor is more about... living in a society. https://fallfromheaven.fandom.com/wiki/Balseraphs
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Aug 19, 2021 10:27
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Pocky In My Pocket posted:I like the great wheel. I like how it felt interconnected and vast the Great Wheel is good for basically the same reason that Moorcock's Law and Chaos are good: not as a comprehensive sorting rubric for real people, but for a representation of supernatural forces that shaped the universe and who should both be regarded as inimical to and enemies of (demi-)humanity people bitch about the Blood War and I'm like, are you loving kidding, a millennia-old Hatfields and McCoys feud between scheming Mephistopheles-style demons and RIP AND TEAR demons is hilarious
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Aug 19, 2021 11:55
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the answer to "in Gygax's conception, Lawful Good is genocidal tyrants and Chaotic Good is libertarians" is not to simply erase it, but to lean into those factions just being vaguely angelic- and fey-flavored villains. get all Final Fantasy on that poo poo similarly anyone who looks at Modrons and thinks "this should simply be discarded and forgotten about" is just wrong
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Aug 19, 2021 12:00
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:the answer to "in Gygax's conception, Lawful Good is genocidal tyrants and Chaotic Good is libertarians" is not to simply erase it, but to lean into those factions just being vaguely angelic- and fey-flavored villains. get all megaten on that poo poo
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Aug 19, 2021 12:02
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Yugoloths are super-redundant, though. Just say the first thing the devils and demons did is wipe them all out just to clear the ground for their war.
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Aug 19, 2021 12:16
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The Great Wheel is terrible because it's alternately incoherent, repetitive, and completely irrelevant to the actual game. All the Inner Planes and transitive planes are infinitely-empty wastelands of pointless homogeneity (and a third of them immediately kill you upon arrival), there are maybe two big-picture ideas ("a big hole in the ground" and "eternal torment/imprisonment, but literally anyone can use portals to come and go as they please") stretched out across all the Lower Planes, and all the Upper Planes are fundamentally dull by design. It's not a coincidence that the most interesting and memorable parts of Planescape are the parts that are entirely original to Planescape and have little or nothing to do with the Great Wheel cosmology as a whole.
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Aug 19, 2021 12:53
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How dare you refer to the plane of salt as boring
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Aug 19, 2021 12:57
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Halloween Jack posted:There's no correct number of stats for ever tabletop RPG. That said, I've never seen a game with more than 6 stats where I felt like they were all necessary.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:10
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:the answer to "in Gygax's conception, Lawful Good is genocidal tyrants and Chaotic Good is libertarians" is not to simply erase it, but to lean into those factions just being vaguely angelic- and fey-flavored villains. get all Final Fantasy on that poo poo We had a genuinely great time with a 7th Sea-esque setting invaded by all this bullshit for like, the one D&D/Pathfinder/later 13th Age game I really ran. Fighting off D&D Good and D&D Evil and settling Orc refugees in the not-PLC and going on their own adventures into Sigil and beyond after their world got hooked up to the Great Wheel.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:the answer to "in Gygax's conception, Lawful Good is genocidal tyrants and Chaotic Good is libertarians" is not to simply erase it, but to lean into those factions just being vaguely angelic- and fey-flavored villains. get all Final Fantasy on that poo poo  These young people could not agree more
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Aug 19, 2021 14:30
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gtrmp posted:The Great Wheel is terrible because it's alternately incoherent, repetitive, and completely irrelevant to the actual game. All the Inner Planes and transitive planes are infinitely-empty wastelands of pointless homogeneity (and a third of them immediately kill you upon arrival), there are maybe two big-picture ideas ("a big hole in the ground" and "eternal torment/imprisonment, but literally anyone can use portals to come and go as they please") stretched out across all the Lower Planes, and all the Upper Planes are fundamentally dull by design. It's not a coincidence that the most interesting and memorable parts of Planescape are the parts that are entirely original to Planescape and have little or nothing to do with the Great Wheel cosmology as a whole.
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Aug 19, 2021 14:33
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