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Columbo is the opposite of a cop tbh, hes a chaos demon who represents guilt itself. constantly hectoring rich bastards until they can no longer bear to conceal their crimes. Like the Furies standing on each others shoulders in a trench coat. America had to be sold this as a “cop show” because they werent ready for the truth. loving awesome
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Aug 21, 2021 01:50
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Powered Descent posted:Sledge Hammer! Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:50
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Matlock, Columbo with a dixie style instead of the a weirdo.
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Aug 21, 2021 02:29
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think Lower Decks is fantastic, I don't know what you see as so wrong about it. It's not funny, which is kind of a big deal for a comedy show. It tries to make up for this by being zany and having quick, colorful action set pieces, like Rick and Morty does, but they're not able to pull it off. It's still watchable, especially since the episodes are so short, but it's not a good show or anything.
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Aug 21, 2021 02:32
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Tighclops posted:The only good cop show was Miami Vice and even then it was still copaganda Continuum had the time-traveling cop get woke and go ACAB to fight the future (which was dominated by "the Corporate Congress")
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Aug 21, 2021 03:34
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Kesper North posted:Continuum had the time-traveling cop get woke and go ACAB to fight the future (which was dominated by "the Corporate Congress") I have only seen a few episodes of this show since it didn't really keep my attention at the time it was new, but I'm really glad to hear it went this way
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Aug 21, 2021 03:58
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Literally Robocop is the only good cop movie.
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Aug 21, 2021 04:10
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Tighclops posted:I have only seen a few episodes of this show since it didn't really keep my attention at the time it was new, but I'm really glad to hear it went this way It ended up being loving amazing. It's alarmingly prescient and went into great detail about how we went from the state of play in 2011-2013 to the Corporate Congress (spoiler alert: it's basically 2020.gif) and pulled absolutely no punches while radicalizing its own protagonist, a cop from the future, against cops in our time while showing how she comes to realize that policing was also super corrupt in her own future timeline. Some rather clever writing in that show, and some good use of timetravel shenanigans. Unfortunately season 4 ended up being a six-episode fast-forward through three seasons' worth of material because the "SyFy Channel" (lol) canceled them, but at least they got those six episodes to wrap up the main plot. Well worth going back and watching in light of present day events, IMO. You'll laugh when you compare the Halo device in the show to Amazon Halo. And as for all the other law enforcement panopticon stuff, well, the show nailed Amazon Ring's business model (and its relationship with local PDs!) in detail. I can't say enough good things about Continuum.
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Aug 21, 2021 05:03
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I've been watching Voyager the whole way through for the first time. I'd wager I've only seen about a fourth or fifth of the episodes. I just hit Threshold. Y'all weren't kidding.
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Aug 21, 2021 06:28
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Tighclops posted:I'm not saying it was high art but Star Trek generally had just a touch more going on than the average episode of SVU or poo poo like Knight Rider. (and I like Knight Rider.) I don't think it's fair to characterize it as just another empty network TV show. The funny thing is that SVU is actually supposed to be Serious Drama with a Thing To Say Every Episode - that's the essence of the "ripped from the headlines" structure. Does it deliver? Rarely, and in increasingly smaller amounts over the show's lifetime. But the decline of L&O as Serious Moral Drama is pretty similar to Star Trek itself, honestly.
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Aug 21, 2021 06:33
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LividLiquid posted:I've been watching Voyager the whole way through for the first time. I'd wager I've only seen about a fourth or fifth of the episodes. To Threshold’s credit, it’s at least entertaining bad instead of just dull like most bad Voyager episodes. The Tom Paris transformation effects are legitimately gross, too. People like to joke about that episode winning an Emmy but they really earned it.
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Aug 21, 2021 06:41
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Axe-man posted:Gene's Vision gave us the first season of TNG. And the first season of TNG gave us the rest of TNG, demonstrating that the basic vision is good, it just needs to be filtered by competent writers and developers who believe both in the ideals and also the basic concepts of how to write.
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Aug 21, 2021 07:37
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MikeJF posted:And the first season of TNG gave us the rest of TNG, demonstrating that the basic vision is good, it just needs to be filtered by competent writers and developers who believe both in the ideals and also the basic concepts of how to write. Keeping it away from both Maurice Hurley and Gene's creepy lawyer sure helped that equation a lot too.
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Aug 21, 2021 07:39
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Nitrousoxide posted:The fact that they couldn't even make new metaphors for the Tamarian in the last episode just made me unreasonably angry. It was obvious the writers were contorting themselves into pretzels to get him to say the lines from "Darmok" Eh, they made a few new ones (Rapunki, when he joined the seven, Arnock, at the race of Natara) and mixed it with the old for the few lines he had. Probably just to reintroduce the language. He's gonna be here all season, they'll have to be using new ones soon and could've sprinkled them out if they wanted. skooma512 posted:I think challenging the utopia of the Federation with the realities of fighting a war does set the stage to make good and worthwhile points. My thought was that a lot of guys seem to think Federation as utopia means that applies to everyone they ever meet, which is absurd just based on the Klingons alone. The issue people have is not really with the idea of challenging the Federation with the realities of a war, but the response a show like Discovery to react by depicting Starfleet changing in a negative way as if turning into a horrible 20th century HARD MEN HARD CHOICES army is the only way to face those realities, instead of the characters figuring out how to both live up to their ideals while existing in a hostile universe despite how difficult it is. DS9 did it well enough.
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Aug 21, 2021 09:39
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DS9 also was great at showing what desperation can do to any society even a perfect one.
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Aug 21, 2021 10:09
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Most of the politics of DS9, and especially the whole "harsh realities of war" bit is lib masturbation, and bordering on reactionary. It's the worst part of DS9, and in any case Babylon 5 did it better.
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Aug 21, 2021 10:35
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thotsky posted:Babylon 5 did it better. This can be a blanket statement really, though.
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Aug 21, 2021 12:36
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I was refering to sisko crossing the line several times and of course ITS A FAKEEEEEEEEE. The politics are weird cause you never get a sense that the federation HAS a government doing poo poo.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:30
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skooma512 posted:I think challenging the utopia of the Federation with the realities of fighting a war does set the stage to make good and worthwhile points. The Federation was forged in war, this is reactionary nonsense from people who can't handle the concept that a society can be compassionate in peace and strong in adversity at the same time. CharlestheHammer posted:I feel like people are mythologizing Star Trek a bit. It has definitely changed who it’s target audience is but it was always a network TV show, it can’t really be empty as it never had anything in it to begin with Many of what we consider now to be among the great novels of classic literature were first printed in magazines and newspapers.
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Aug 21, 2021 15:21
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Gene was a huge piece of poo poo though, this isn’t revisionism or fantasy, it’s something backed up by dozens of people he worked with, including the ones who actually liked him. I'm saying this is beyond old news and their weird hate boner for a man long dead whose influence on the franchise was rapidly waning even as he lived is even more annoying than the lionizing that never actually happens here anymore. I consider TNG co-creator David Gerrold's letter to the writer of Gene's official biography to be, if not the definitive word, certainly a powerful and authoritative one. And it does not paint a picture of a craven hobgoblin of a man with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
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Aug 21, 2021 15:35
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Every Prime Directive episode is a story along the lines of 'oops two of our values are in direct conflict and we have to pick one, which one do we sacrifice and why?' That's really no different to DS9's 'war is lovely and forces you into lovely choices' episodes. And if old trek didn't try and have something to say about those issues... well I guess you end up with Discovery. e: but the greatest 'problem' and limiting factor for the optimism of Star Trek is that because of the nature of the show it posits a future in which the military has a very... proactive role in policy making. You get the sense that if you gave the average Starfleet officer a copy of Starship Troopers they would recognise much of the ethos in it as their own. e2: I would also struggle to name many shows that have had the lasting cultural impact and retained viewership over multiple decades as TNG has. A bold claim to say that something that popular lacks any deep artistic merit. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 15:52
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Alchenar posted:
Friends? Jeopardy? Just because something has long lasting cultural impact doesn't mean it has artistic merit. TNG does though, especially considering it in it's hospital m historical context. But yeah, the dead horse about Shakespeare being low brow sex jokes for the masses still holds true.
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Aug 21, 2021 16:42
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MikeJF posted:The issue people have is not really with the idea of challenging the Federation with the realities of a war, but the response a show like Discovery to react by depicting Starfleet changing in a negative way as if turning into a horrible 20th century HARD MEN HARD CHOICES army is the only way to face those realities, instead of the characters figuring out how to both live up to their ideals while existing in a hostile universe despite how difficult it is. DS9 did it well enough. Our contemporary hard men making hard choices would look like some wimpy nobody agonizing over nothing compared to, say, a Roman general that would have just rolled in and slaughtered everyone without even thinking about philosophical concerns. poo poo, the Royal Navy only abolished flogging as a punishment 142 years ago. That these future people would drift to acting like late 20th/early 21st century harsh pragmatists is odd writing. The society they grew up in wouldn't have equipped those people to think that way. I mean, I'm deeply old fashioned in my thinking in a lot of respects, but I wouldn't ever think "well maybe they could flog them" as an idea, because it is completely off the table as an option in the world I live in.
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Aug 21, 2021 17:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:I feel like people are mythologizing Star Trek a bit. It has definitely changed who it’s target audience is but it was always a network TV show, it can’t really be empty as it never had anything in it to begin with I must need to have my eyes checked. There's no way I just read what I thought I did.
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Aug 21, 2021 18:03
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Tighclops posted:I love that they finally included space weed as a thing in one of these shows and it was terrible and cringe instead of being like, geordi and data getting high and watching holographic three stooges shorts For space weed you want The Orville.
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Aug 21, 2021 19:26
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I kind of agree with Brent Spiner's take on the whole thing.quote:I think there is an illusion about it. You know, if you ask somebody, why has Star Trek lasted so long, they always say the same thing: because it has a positive vision of the future. But to tell you the truth, I don't know what is so positive about it. We are still blowing people away. We carry guns. It's a joke. It's like that illusion that it is somehow all about peace. It's really not. It is a western, it is a shoot'em up. But it does have elements that are nice, like the fact that all people are celebrated for who they are, their differences rather than their similarities, and I think that's a very positive thing. The positive thing about it is just that it depicts a future, and that is somehow reassuring, that there is going to be a future. I don't think it necessarily depicts a future that's better or worse than where we live right now.
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Aug 21, 2021 20:19
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I love Brent Spiner and believe he's a talented actor but let's not forget that he is at least partially responsible for Nemesis
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Aug 21, 2021 20:25
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For some reason I have this idea in my head that Brent Spiner turned out to be a jerk and/or a chud over the last while. Is that incorrect?
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Aug 21, 2021 20:34
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Arivia posted:For some reason I have this idea in my head that Brent Spiner turned out to be a jerk and/or a chud over the last while. Is that incorrect? He's definitely not a chud. There's thread lore that he hated Star Trek and was just cashing checks but I've never seen anything from him to suggest that was the case. It's kinda weird how many myths seem to exist about Trek only here, like the one about Mulgrew intentionally playing Janeway as crazy.
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Aug 21, 2021 20:38
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I heard Spiner was kind of an rear end in a top hat but like a normal person kind of rear end in a top hat, where maybe he fucks up the vibe at a party and you don't invite him to the next one, as opposed to, you know, the kind of rear end in a top hat we can detect on the prickalino sensors from two quadrants away. He seems to still be friends with LeVar Burton, anyway. It may very well be that he's completely normal and just kind of looks like an rear end in a top hat when he's not playing Data.
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Aug 21, 2021 20:46
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Nessus posted:I heard Spiner was kind of an rear end in a top hat but like a normal person kind of rear end in a top hat, where maybe he fucks up the vibe at a party and you don't invite him to the next one, as opposed to, you know, the kind of rear end in a top hat we can detect on the prickalino sensors from two quadrants away. He seems to still be friends with LeVar Burton, anyway. he *is* the most hated man in America, after all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBfT9H_2jM4
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Aug 21, 2021 20:55
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It sounds like Spiner was good friends with some people but other people didn't like him which sounds extremely normal.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:02
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Grand Fromage posted:He's definitely not a chud. There's thread lore that he hated Star Trek and was just cashing checks but I've never seen anything from him to suggest that was the case. It's kinda weird how many myths seem to exist about Trek only here, like the one about Mulgrew intentionally playing Janeway as crazy. I think one thing that is true of Spiner is that he didn't expect the fame that he got from playing the role, and that he was kind of weirded out by some of the fans, I mean, I don't think that's unusual. We know was true for, say, Shatner and Nimoy too, for instance.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:06
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There's "maybe kind of a dick sometimes" and "actual bad person" when people talk about celebrities being assholes. Spiner may be the former but does not appear to be the latter, basically.Epicurius posted:I think one thing that is true of Spiner is that he didn't expect the fame that he got from playing the role, and that he was kind of weirded out by some of the fans, I mean, I don't think that's unusual. We know was true for, say, Shatner and Nimoy too, for instance. Being confused/weirded out by fame seems like a much more normal and healthy response than the alternative. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 21:08
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Spiner has always just struck me as having cultivated a lack of social graces so he doesn't have to deal with anyone he doesn't like
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Aug 21, 2021 21:14
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Spiner and Stewart are great friends, and I just can't see that being the case if he were a bad guy.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:30
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Grand Fromage posted:Being confused/weirded out by fame seems like a much more normal and healthy response than the alternative. Oh, I very much agree. Another thing Spiner complained about in interviews is that whenever he posts something sarcastic on Twitter, he gets swamped with replies saying "Data wouldn't say that", and he wants to say something like, no poo poo, I'm not Data. I'm Brent Spiner, and I would say that. (One thing I'll say about him on Twitter is that if somebody sick or who needs help sends him a GoFundMe request because they're sick or something or a request for help, he'll retweet it to bring it to people's attention.)
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Aug 21, 2021 21:31
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That doesn't surprise me just because I notice every time Jeffrey Combs tweets to yell at a Republican there's someone in the comments trying to be funny about Weyoun.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:44
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HopperUK posted:That doesn't surprise me just because I notice every time Jeffrey Combs tweets to yell at a Republican there's someone in the comments trying to be funny about Weyoun. Alternatively, they could blame it on his overactive pineal gland.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:49
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Spiner honestly seems like the most “normal dude” of the TNG cast, maybe holding that rank with Sirtis. He’s just got an abrasive and dry sense of humor that can rub people the wrong way, I suspect. But he always comes off as 100% genuine.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:57
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