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This game is desperately in need of the throne room from Civ 1/2, but with culture specific kitsch (and associated culture specific kitsch from countries you've annexed  ).
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Aug 25, 2021 19:16
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:36 |
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pro starcraft loser posted:Oh drat, the outposts dont come with the city when you demand them during a war... No, but they are broken away from captured cities, and can just be ransacked and a new outpost built on top if they don't spend the influence to build a new city on the spot. And even if they do the city will largely starve since they wouldn't not be able to link outposts due to your city blocking the direct contact points.
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Aug 25, 2021 19:47
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Total Amplitude noob question. If two different districts can exploit the same tile do you get both yields? eg. A Makers Quarter and a Farmers quarter on either side of a 2/2 river.
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Aug 25, 2021 20:41
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Is there no "random opponent" button? Having to manually try to mix up the AI opponents in kindof annoying
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Aug 25, 2021 20:48
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ccubed posted:Total Amplitude noob question. If two different districts can exploit the same tile do you get both yields? eg. A Makers Quarter and a Farmers quarter on either side of a 2/2 river. Yes
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Aug 25, 2021 21:17
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Spent a couple hours last night trying to refine an Assyrian start and it seems like the key to just ignore districts, attach as many territories as possible to your capital and start harassing your neighbors outposts with your raiders ASAP. If you're prudent with your raiding economy, you can then buy an army, spawn them at a Dunne near neighboring cities and go to town (literally). A nice twist is staying in the Neolithic Era a bit longer than usual to generate more nomads and then disband a couple scouts to prep your city pop for the 10 or so military units you'll need.
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Aug 25, 2021 22:02
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CuddleCryptid posted:No, but they are broken away from captured cities, and can just be ransacked and a new outpost built on top if they don't spend the influence to build a new city on the spot. And even if they do the city will largely starve since they wouldn't not be able to link outposts due to your city blocking the direct contact points. OOOOH, so they don't auto connect to a new city. Good to know.
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Aug 25, 2021 22:05
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I don't think I understand how war works. I declared on a neighbor and quickly took two cities plus attached territories. Opponent runs out of war support and this triggers them to force-surrender to me. However, it's not an option - I have to let them surrender to me, and in doing so give them back one of their cities. The really annoying this is that I was like 5 war score away from being able to vassalize them. How exactly does that work? Why do I have to stop the war and cede ground just because they run out of support?
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Aug 25, 2021 23:04
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dy. posted:I don't think I understand how war works. I get what the devs are trying to do - to make wars more piecemeal efforts rather than genocide in Civ. But I think they'd be wiser to take the Stellaris approach and make the winner have to spend increasing amount of influence to reject a surrender - this would also help with the lack of things to do with influence past the early game.
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Aug 25, 2021 23:08
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The pacing this game really does feel better on the second slowest setting. That said, I haven't gotten past early modern yet because I keep restarting the game to crank up the difficulty. New world is definitely busted right now because of the AIs and ability to capitalize on it, I wouldn't say I'm a civ pro but I am an efficiency nerd and playing on the third highest difficulty pangea right now feels fairly good on second slow difficulty. Just now getting past classical era so we'll see if the snowball gets out of control again, but being landlocked for expansion definitely helps to keep from going too crazy
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Aug 25, 2021 23:09
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ZypherIM posted:I'm just going to point out that while auto-explore is a useful tool to point you to a close resource, it does absolutely nothing in terms of plotting a best course between multiple resources. Neolithic units also don't have pathfinder, which pans out to certain areas taking a lot of time to go through, and if the technically closest resource is there it'll path you there. I've had better success in using a mix of auto-explore where I have no direction but manual move when there is a better area for movement. With the harder difficulty requiring more resources per star I consistently get out of neolithic before almost every AI opponent. We absolutely have aggressive players in the game but they wholly neutered going to war as a viable strat because the fame gains don't compete with other people around the map who go untouched.
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Aug 25, 2021 23:23
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Imo wars should give tons of fame. Which civilizations won the most fame IRL? The ones who conquered tons of poo poo tbh
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Aug 25, 2021 23:31
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OctaMurk posted:Imo wars should give tons of fame. Which civilizations won the most fame IRL? The ones who conquered tons of poo poo tbh I mean, they do - just not directly that's almost always the way it works in these games, one elimination is going to give you enough extra terrain and resources that you'll smush the remaining players unless they actively team up against you it's one of the major reasons the difficulty curve is often upside down, and a contributor to the "I've already won, time to press end turn a bunch" fun not a specific humankind gripe mind, it's a general 4x issue
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Aug 25, 2021 23:36
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victrix posted:I mean, they do - just not directly Yeah this is a huge issue in Civ 6 and probably 4x in general. The difficulty slider just gives the AI starting bonuses and other minor tweaks. It doesn't make the AI any smarter, so once you get over the hump on turn 150, you are set to win... on turn 300.
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Aug 25, 2021 23:45
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Without smarter AI (lol), only fix I can think of is more penalties for occupied cities, penalties on larger empires in general, or a realm divide style all against one like total war shogun 2. Id prefer occupation penalties
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Aug 25, 2021 23:48
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I've yet to see a 4X game that solves the problem of snowballing. Maybe they should replicate real history and create a "useless paper-pusher" job that doesn't do anything and drags your empire down. The longer you have the biggest empire, the more of them you get.
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Aug 26, 2021 00:00
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Slowpoke! posted:Yeah this is a huge issue in Civ 6 and probably 4x in general. The difficulty slider just gives the AI starting bonuses and other minor tweaks. It doesn't make the AI any smarter, so once you get over the hump on turn 150, you are set to win... on turn 300. Moonshine Rhyme posted:Without smarter AI (lol), only fix I can think of is more penalties for occupied cities, penalties on larger empires in general, or a realm divide style all against one like total war shogun 2. Id prefer occupation penalties They're talking about a game with human players, not issues with an AI. Doltos posted:We absolutely have aggressive players in the game but they wholly neutered going to war as a viable strat because the fame gains don't compete with other people around the map who go untouched. War is the best route to militarist stars and expansionist stars, while also being a good route for money and agrarian stars. Alternatively if you're not pillaging (money+pop) then taking territory helps with builder stars (each resource counts as a district). Really the only stars you can't leverage war towards is influence and science. Even without taking territory in a war, razing a bunch of poo poo to the ground to give you money, pops, and unit kills while slowing the opponent down is really effective. Maybe you've cracked the code and its never worth it, but forgive me if I'm skeptical.
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Aug 26, 2021 00:12
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While opponent builds science town, I'm taking the land I'll use for double science town. It'll take a while to catch up, but...
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Aug 26, 2021 00:15
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Slowpoke! posted:Yeah this is a huge issue in Civ 6 and probably 4x in general. The difficulty slider just gives the AI starting bonuses and other minor tweaks. It doesn't make the AI any smarter, so once you get over the hump on turn 150, you are set to win... on turn 300. I've been meaning to post about it, but I actually think the way difficulty settings are handled is really smart So the base difficulty gives escalating population based bonuses https://humankind.fandom.com/wiki/Difficulty Notably, at the highest difficulty, the ai is getting +3 FIMS from all pop, but they do not get starting slingshot bonuses on any difficulty, which makes the early game way less of a civ diety style "win or lose immediately" setup Instead this means the ai will always be putting pressure on you to play better, and the bonuses will scale with the size of their empire (it's interesting that the bonuses aren't uniform, look at the middle ones) But there's two other major contributors to difficulty: the ai avatars and the map As much as we've mostly had complaints in here about how avatars and nations are presented in a confusing manner, I'm actually liking what the avatar system does mechanically https://humankind.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar Avatars are much closer to what we'd think of as the civs in civilization - that's where they get static bonuses, but the more interesting bit is you can set their preferences and behaviors A game with five hateful AI with military bonuses on Humankind is probably going to be a much much harder game than one with all friendly pacifists But I think this is cool, because it let's you set up an interesting world (instead of just a giant gently caress you party), where you may have more stable, potentially friendly AIs alongside the Montezumas, giving you some meaningful diplomacy decisions to make depending on how the nation positions and map work out The second big one is the map, I've already talked about it before, but playing the default new world map is going to give a very different challenge than a flat pangea (this has way less to do with Humankind specifically, it's a 4x thing) I only bring this up because the combination of difficulty, avatars, and map settings are the real combined difficulty setting - why does any of this matter? Well for one, it's highly likely that when we complain about some issue, it may be a big deal on one particular combination of settings, and a total non factor on another This is, again, a 4x issue, it was a problem when discussing balance problems with civ, it's a problem here I still need to put in more time, but I'm a bit hopeful that with the right combination of avatars and map, you can make an interesting, tough game from start to finish (that's the dream right?) None of all that  nonsense matters the least bit if you're one of the smart people who don't waste your time thinking about 4x difficulty and instead just build a cool civ and carpet the world in pretty looking cities 
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Aug 26, 2021 00:25
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_3lKsKT4Uxs It’s all elephants? Always has been
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Aug 26, 2021 00:42
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Snowballing is fine and largely expected, though in Humankind it seems way worse than it has ever been in Civ. I'm okay with the design philosophy of embracing the fact that there will always be something broken/exploitable about your game instead of nerfing everything into the ground, but there are clearly some major issues with the current late game. On turn 90 I had 1800 science which seemed normal. On turn 100 I had 4000. Okay, a moment of dramatic growth after I realized that I could simply build a shitload of research centers all at once in big clusters with my cities i've been building nothing but makers quarters in. This is also fine, though the CPU falls behind at this point. Then by turn 110 I had 10k science. The game was over by this point. At turn 120 I had 30k science. turn 130 I had 100k science and the game ended a few turns later. This is honestly just broken. You units are made obsolete a few turns after you make them. You don't even have the time to build any of the late game stuff before it ends. It's fun to do once, but this obviously makes multiplayer unplayable unless you have some agreed upon bans before starting. And the snowballing is still pretty bad without picking turkey, just not quite as bad. I think they should make districts increase in cost more aggressively so you're not always building multiple a turn every single turn in the late game. The infrastructure costs are mostly sane, but districts are way too cheap. This would make the game a lot more interesting in the second half while still allowing for some fun game breaking and exploiting. Right now, things just move too fast to be fun.
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Aug 26, 2021 01:03
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dy. posted:I don't think I understand how war works. Don't go to wars without making demands first. All your demands are accepted if you win a war. In this game going to war without demands is the equivalent of doing it for funsies.
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Aug 26, 2021 01:10
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which civs are good in the early modern period? I've got the ancient, classical and medieval ones mostly figured out but compared to earlier choices the early modern ones seem very lackluster and its making it hard to understand which ones are worth gunning for
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Aug 26, 2021 02:49
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AnEdgelord posted:which civs are good in the early modern period? I've got the ancient, classical and medieval ones mostly figured out but compared to earlier choices the early modern ones seem very lackluster and its making it hard to understand which ones are worth gunning for I've found the mughals' emblematic district to be really powerful. For me, it's the industrial era where it seems like there are no obvious OP picks. edit: actually i got their district mixed up with the Khmer's. The mughals are good but nothing too special. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 02:52
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I really enjoy picking the Ming. They can massively shore up your stability for just mass spamming into the lategame. Dunno why the AI loves the Poles so much.
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Aug 26, 2021 03:01
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To the good people that claim that influence doesn't have a purpose outside of the Early game: This poo poo gets expensive, OK? I went Egypt at the end because I have no clue how the hell else I'm supposed to actually incorporate all this stuff I have claimed. EDIT The 20 visible unincorporated territories are not the entirety of my plans for this new world. There is more space North I'm gobbling up, too. Side Gripe: Picking Scarlet makes it difficult to see if you share a border with Magenta.
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Aug 26, 2021 03:30
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Is it worth sticking around in the Neolithic to pick up the extra trait? The bonus is pretty huge, but is it worth the cost in tempo? Especially if it could mean missing your shot at the Ancient culture you want?
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Aug 26, 2021 07:13
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This game is flawed on a number of levels, but I just built my first railway and watched my first train chugging to Memphis and began involuntary yelling "TOOT TOOT! YEAHHH!"
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Aug 26, 2021 07:20
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FractalSandwich posted:Is it worth sticking around in the Neolithic to pick up the extra trait? The bonus is pretty huge, but is it worth the cost in tempo? Especially if it could mean missing your shot at the Ancient culture you want? If you can get the Harappans and you know of a river, take them. Otherwise, I think it's worthwhile to get the Astronomy trait. In my current game I got 19 scouts before advancing, and immediately unlocked the agriculture star. Then I sent three of them into my city to grow its population.
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Aug 26, 2021 07:31
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FractalSandwich posted:Is it worth sticking around in the Neolithic to pick up the extra trait? The bonus is pretty huge, but is it worth the cost in tempo? Especially if it could mean missing your shot at the Ancient culture you want? The only thing worth hanging in neolithic for is extra tribal units from food, making new units gets much harder than killing couple mammoths or collecting berries from then on. If you got to 8-10 scouts you can eliminate or vassalize a neighbor AI early with those, and if war isn't your style you can inject the population into cities to snowball earlier. Pyromancer fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 08:01
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victrix posted:https://humankind.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar  to me that is still the weirdest most obvious omission in the game. why even create this whole avatar system and then just not let us create them?
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Aug 26, 2021 08:42
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Your Computer posted:it would be cooler if we could actually customize and create avatars Cause they envisioned people would play with their friends' avatars. The french are very social I guess. They mentioned the option to create multiple avatars was coming at some point.
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Aug 26, 2021 08:52
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Your Computer posted:it would be cooler if we could actually customize and create avatars agreed download the ones you want here: https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/humankind/personas
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Aug 26, 2021 09:00
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They haven't fixed that one of the AIs get free influence on the independents in the beta? I don't want to play again until that is fixed.
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Aug 26, 2021 11:35
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At least it was not mentioned in beta log. Neither was the airplane huge upkeep bug.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:00
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FractalSandwich posted:Is it worth sticking around in the Neolithic to pick up the extra trait? The bonus is pretty huge, but is it worth the cost in tempo? Especially if it could mean missing your shot at the Ancient culture you want? Yeah, you have to weigh up what you want to do and what the trade-offs are.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:02
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Ihmemies posted:At least it was not mentioned in beta log. Neither was the airplane huge upkeep bug. I played the beta and it is not fixed.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:21
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I swear that War Support numbers go down if you reload the turn that the enemy offers you a Surrender. I just finished beating up Babylon and the Surrender they offered was enough to take the two regions that they had, so I took everything... but then the game froze and I had to reload the same turn and now I don't have enough to take both. This is kinda bullshit, tbh.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:36
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Megazver posted:I swear that War Support numbers go down if you reload the turn that the enemy offers you a Surrender. I just finished beating up Babylon and the Surrender they offered was enough to take the two regions that they had, so I took everything... but then the game froze and I had to reload the same turn and now I don't have enough to take both. This happened to me once too. Vasselized my neighbour, game crashed between turns, on restart I had 100 lower war score and couldn't get anything good. I even tried reloading earlier anutosaves and could never get the score up high enough again (until the next war).
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Aug 26, 2021 13:41
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:36 |
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Played the game a bunch last night, general complains I'm sure have come up a dozen times in the thread already: -The hard city limit sucks rear end, I much prefer Civ's approach of letting you make as many as you want with the caveat that if you go too wide too fast you'll cripple yourself, creating a more soft limit on expansion. -The eras move WAY too fast, I feel like star progress needs to be at least halved, maybe even quartered. I barely finished researching Feudalism before the game catapulted me out of the Medieval era into Renaissance. My next game will definitely be on a slower setting to see if it helps. -I wish there was more than one of each type of culture per era. Want to be an agrarian civ? Too bad idiot they're taken because you didn't luck into enough deer to hunt fast enough. -Resources are ridiculously scarce for some reason? There was a whopping one copper and one iron on my starting continent, and in the new world I've found just one other iron. Tons of tech neither I nor the AI can build because it wants two copper. Is this a bug? -I like that wonders are "claimed" so you have no "spend 98 turns building Stonehenge but somebody beats you to it on turn 99" stuff, but I wish a) there were more wonders and b) they were better balanced. In a lot of eras it feels like there's one clearly "best" wonder, and the rest are just consolation prizes. -The player avatar thing is dumb and the AI avatars in general are lacking in any kind of personality or character. This isn't a huge one but it's definitely a noticeable change from Civ, or even Amplitude's other games like EL or ES. So anyway yeah 8/10 it's really good, I'm almost certainly going to dump another 6-8 hours into it when I get home from work today.
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Aug 26, 2021 17:37
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