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I’m finding I want something with more acceleration than Bob when out and about for fun. Overtaking isn’t instantaneous, ie I’m not catapulted from 50 to 80 in 4th which is kind of what I’m after.
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Aug 28, 2021 17:24
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Bet the LiveWire will solve that problem.
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Aug 28, 2021 17:25
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Get a triumph daytona (and a gopro)
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Aug 28, 2021 17:27
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Shift into third and use your whole tachometer.
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Aug 28, 2021 17:33
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Renaissance Robot posted:Get a triumph daytona (and a gopro) and he can do 50 to 80 (in mph even, not even kmh) in 2nd and still have room to go faster without shifting. I'm ready for a different bike than my Daytona once I'm living back home again, but I will miss the absolutely stupid acceleration when getting on a freeway.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:11
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Renaissance Robot posted:Get a triumph daytona (and a gopro) Don’t want a sport bike. The ergonomics would hurt my neck.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:11
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Sagebrush posted:Shift into third and use your whole tachometer. Will try this.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:12
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Steakandchips posted:Don’t want a sport bike. The ergonomics would hurt my neck. Don't worry, the pain stops shortly after you crash  But yeah like Sage said you'll be amazed what a difference taking it closer to redline makes.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:19
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 If you aren't hitting 5000 RPM in that pass you aren't using everything you've got
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Aug 28, 2021 18:24
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And that's really low revs for max power from a motorcycle. Small engines don't torque, yo.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:42
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KillHour posted:Small engines don't torque, yo. I think it's clear from that graph that small engines make a totally reasonable amount of torque -- the MT-03 is actually slightly better than the Fat Bob as a function of displacement (63 lb-ft per litre for the MT-03, 59.8 for the Fat Bob) and its torque curve is flatter, too. Small engines just benefit hugely from the power-multiplying effect of spinning the engine really fast.
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Aug 28, 2021 19:31
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Sagebrush posted:I think it's clear from that graph that small engines make a totally reasonable amount of torque -- the MT-03 is actually slightly better than the Fat Bob as a function of displacement (63 lb-ft per litre for the MT-03, 59.8 for the Fat Bob) and its torque curve is flatter, too. Small engines just benefit hugely from the power-multiplying effect of spinning the engine really fast. Another way of putting this is: small engines can spin fast fairly easily (meaning cheaply) because of the relatively low reciprocating mass. Getting two 800cc dolly parton jugs to spin fast is costly and usually unreliable, and that's before you even factor in things like air cooled heads, pushrod valvetrain, roller bottom end etc. Anyway the right answer is: Sagebrush posted:Shift into third and use your whole tachometer. It's a 100+ horsepower bike, if you can't pass cars it isn't the bike's fault.
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Aug 28, 2021 20:02
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Quote is not edit!
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Aug 28, 2021 20:03
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Are those dyno number graphs usually from CycleWorld? I thought I had bookmarked something that had a pretty good database of them, but can't find it, this seems to be the closest there is and it's a pain to search: https://www.cycleworld.com/tags/dyno/ I'm curious what the ZX-10R looks like, that's probably the most ridiculous bike I've ridden. Did find the Z400 on there though, which is the same as my Ninja 400 I believe: https://www.cycleworld.com/how-much-power-does-2019-kawasaki-z400-make/ 
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Aug 28, 2021 22:13
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Slavvy posted:It's a 100+ horsepower bike, if you can't pass cars it isn't the bike's fault. I passed it fine  Will put it in third next time to pass it faster.
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Aug 28, 2021 22:17
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RightClickSaveAs posted:Are those dyno number graphs usually from CycleWorld? I thought I had bookmarked something that had a pretty good database of them, but can't find it, this seems to be the closest there is and it's a pain to search: https://www.cycleworld.com/tags/dyno/  Phone posting hopefully this works. Cycle World seems most consistent with doing dynos but they don’t always post the chart which is annoying. They have a bunch of YouTube videos. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL73D603D74057DC0E
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Aug 28, 2021 22:33
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Toe Rag posted:
I did find one buried in yet another video for the 2020 ZX-10RR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNwDjGfXwC8&t=73s 
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Aug 28, 2021 22:52
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and then, you know, you got 2-strokes 
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Aug 28, 2021 |
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Aug 28, 2021 23:20
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Always worth posting: I like how the torque rises so sharply the dyno couldn't give accurate readings in the area so it's just mystery torque until it catches up at 9000
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Aug 28, 2021 23:35
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Also go with this 2-stroke gif here is an I4  and a V-twin 
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Aug 29, 2021 00:07
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Sagebrush posted:Also go with this 2-stroke gif I think I found one for thumpers 
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Aug 29, 2021 00:20
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KillHour posted:And that's really low revs for max power from a motorcycle. I love being able to shift at 10k rpm in the first 3 gears and still only be doing ~60mph. Probably my favorite thing about my mt03 so far.
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Aug 29, 2021 00:41
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Steakandchips posted:I’m finding I want something with more acceleration than Bob when out and about for fun. Overtaking isn’t instantaneous, ie I’m not catapulted from 50 to 80 in 4th which is kind of what I’m after. *pounds fists on table* Ban Dit Twelve Hundred Ban Dit Twelve Hundred
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Aug 29, 2021 00:46
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Tuono v4
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Aug 29, 2021 00:57
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Steakandchips posted:I’m finding I want something with more acceleration than Bob when out and about for fun. Overtaking isn’t instantaneous, ie I’m not catapulted from 50 to 80 in 4th which is kind of what I’m after. Kawasaki H2 ought to do it
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Aug 29, 2021 07:13
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Sagebrush posted:Shift into third and use your whole tachometer. Jesus, you weren't joking. Third is my new favourite gear; exactly the sort of acceleration I was looking for. You guys really know your stuff!
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Aug 29, 2021 17:02
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Steakandchips posted:Jesus, you weren't joking. Third is my new favourite gear; exactly the sort of acceleration I was looking for. Manual transmissions good. Even a DCT knows to downshift when its getting the poo poo beat out of it Arson Daily posted:Kawasaki H2 ought to do it Not enough power
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Aug 29, 2021 17:30
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Steakandchips posted:Jesus, you weren't joking. Third is my new favourite gear; exactly the sort of acceleration I was looking for. I honestly think that the reason we have 400 horsepower family SUVs these days is because the entire driving public is terrified of taking their engine to redline, so auto manufacturers have to build these absurdly oversized engines to make the car not feel like a turd when the driver deliberately only uses 30% of the available power. European cars on the Autobahn drive much faster than Americans while equipped with engines half the size because their drivers aren't afraid to rev them up. This is how newbies kill themselves on supersports, incidentally. They ride around entirely in the lower third of the tachometer where the bike is producing about as much power as a 250, thinking "man this doesn't even feel that fast, I don't know why all those assholes were saying that I should buy a small bike," and eventually they get a little confident and decide to make a spirited pass on a turn and actually rev into the power band, and engine output instantly triples and their brain freezes up and they target fixate off the edge of the road into a mailbox. The redline is "maximum speed for sustained normal operation," not "engine explodes immediately at this point." Take your bike up there at least once every ride.
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Aug 29, 2021 19:01
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Yup. Redline a day keeps your friendly neighborhood mechanic away. I yeet something with 60lb per hp faster than typical american drivers will do with 1/12th of that. loving pillbox has 4-500hp and the driver is afraid to use it even though they have 36 airbags, engineered crash structures and more compute power than the entire planet had 40 years ago.
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Aug 29, 2021 19:18
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Heavily babied engines get diseases like: heavy carbon deposits on the valves and in the chamber, accelerated cam lobe wear, warpage/leakage from uneven cooling, severe needle/emulsion tube wear in the carbs, sludge buildup in the clutch and stator, gearbox bearing failure, stator overheating. If the engine is made properly (this rules out Enfield and others btw) and you've warmed it up, anywhere on the tacho is safe. Faster engine speeds mean more oil pressure and better coolant circulation. You just have to keep the bike moving. Imo the leading causes of engine death in order are: maintenance neglect, thrashing when cold, sitting idling in traffic instead of moving forward like allah intended. More rpm = more danger stopped being a thing around the time the cb750 got built.
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Aug 29, 2021 19:47
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Are you saying I shouldn't buy this gixxer that a little old lady only rode to church and back once a week?
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Aug 29, 2021 19:57
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Ulf posted:Are you saying I shouldn't buy this gixxer that a little old lady only rode to church and back once a week? Putting aside the implausibility, that bike will have some problems. They'll just be different and opposite problems to wheelie bro's gixxer.
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Aug 29, 2021 20:01
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Sagebrush posted:I honestly think that the reason we have 400 horsepower family SUVs these days is because the entire driving public is terrified of taking their engine to redline, so auto manufacturers have to build these absurdly oversized engines to make the car not feel like a turd when the driver deliberately only uses 30% of the available power. European cars on the Autobahn drive much faster than Americans while equipped with engines half the size because their drivers aren't afraid to rev them up. I was driving our 2003 CRV once with my old man riding shotgun and he kept passive aggressively commenting how I was going over 4k rpm which is bad for the motor and eventually I got frustrated and shut him down by condescendingly explaining how a modern DOHC motor works. I felt it needed to be done, don't pander to olds.
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Aug 29, 2021 21:04
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Slavvy posted:Heavily babied engines get diseases like: heavy carbon deposits on the valves and in the chamber, accelerated cam lobe wear, warpage/leakage from uneven cooling, severe needle/emulsion tube wear in the carbs, sludge buildup in the clutch and stator, gearbox bearing failure, stator overheating. Could you explain? I wish to learn. (Is both cam lobe wear and gearbox bearing related to oil flow at low rpm?)
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Aug 29, 2021 21:17
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Gorson posted:I was driving our 2003 CRV once with my old man riding shotgun and he kept passive aggressively commenting how I was going over 4k rpm which is bad for the motor and eventually I got frustrated and shut him down by condescendingly explaining how a modern DOHC motor works. I felt it needed to be done, don't pander to olds. I've heard apocryphal stories about how connecting rod elongation can lead to engine failure if the car has never been run hard. The old fart gets a brand new sports car but religiously never drives it above 3000 RPM, so as the engine breaks in the pistons wear a tiny lip into the cylinder walls at a point that corresponds to the extent of their stroke. Then someone else gets the car and revs it up to 7000, the conrods stretch a few thousandths of an inch, and the piston smashes into the lip and bad things happen. No idea if that's actually a thing that happens, but I can see how it might. (i'm saying you blew up your dad's car and you should be ashamed) Xakura posted:Could you explain? I wish to learn. Yes. Low oil pressure means less getting to the head which means increased wear on the camshafts. And because motorcycles have a shared sump between the engine and transmission, consistently low engine speed + high road speed means inadequate oil pressure for the speed the gearbox parts are moving. I am curious about the carburetor wear. Is it that consistent low-throttle riding, with the needle barely raised, leads to the needle bouncing around in its seat from normal vibration and causing damage to the interface? Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 22:08
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Xakura posted:Could you explain? I wish to learn. Yeah. Extended idling can wear lobes like this too. They're a device that is splash lubricated via runoff of the cam bearings. Which the cam bearing themselves are at the very end of the oil delivery circuit. Some 80s-90s bikes actually had warnings about being in too high of a gear for a given engine speed in that it would damage the transmission from lack of adequate oil pressure. Similar to coasting in neutral down long grades with the engine idling. Needle/Emulsion tubes wear unevenly in carbs from only being partially cycled through their travel due to low throttle/rev use. The needle repeatedly rattling against the emulsion tube can be visible on teardown and presents itself as a high polish on the needle and a slight elongation of the emulsion tube bore. E: CV carbs use load sensing needles independent of the throttle plate, low load, low travel of the needle. Flat slides act directly on the needle. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 22:08
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It's mostly been answered but I will anyway. Cam lobes: most big serious bikes now have pressure lubricated lobes via sprayers mounted above them, also finger followers to reduce the effective steepness of the opening ramp, which helps with friction and wear in general. This is less susceptible to damage from reduced oil pressure but it's still the case. Splash lubed cams definitely suffer badly. Further complications arise if you have roller followers because those rollers need lubing as well; I suspect most orange bike roller failures stem from a failure to thrash the engine enough and riding it like it's a normal big slow thumper. Needles: it's the needles vibrating around at prolonged low throttle opening, smacking into the emulsion tube and ending up notched and ovalling out the hole. Common ailment on large engines with small carbs like bandit 1200, leads to abnormally rich running and a staircase torque curve. Gearbox: lots of modern bikes have pressure lubed gearboxes which is self explanatory, but splash lube is the norm. The higher gears are physically the smallest and often mounted at the extremities of the shafts where they can't get much lubrication if everything is spinning slowly. I have seized an rg150 gearbox by being a noob and shifting into fifth way too early. Bonus two strokes: coasting on a shut throttle with a 2t engine that lacks an oil pump is death, because you're doing high rpm but no fuel, and therefore no oil, is reaching the bottom end. Literally WOT is the absolute safest operating condition for a two stroke, just another reason they're magic. I also seem to have sprouted a Harley themed av somehow? Bizarre
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Aug 29, 2021 22:48
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Embrace the tater. Boil 'em, mash 'em, make sounds like their nomenclature out of your exhaust pipes.
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Aug 30, 2021 07:15
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:*pounds fists on table* I mean, I loathe the Bandit 600, so I'm curious just how poo poo the 1200 is in comparison?
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Aug 30, 2021 07:17
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It's good enough for me! Definitely the bike I've owned the longest, mostly cause it still doesn't go (this is not because it's a bandit). They are a fantastic bike with miserable suspension, what makes them special is the ridiculous potential for modification and improvement. They are hands down the best handling of the jumbo faux-UJM's, if you put in the work, and easily the lightest. Almost everything interchanges with various gixxers. The engine's potential is higher than most people's bank accounts or courage. Having said all that, I have also owned a zrx and I much preferred it, the idiosyncracies made it better not worse and the character was really nice. The bandit is fairly bland in that sense but it's an amazingly fun bike to go fast on.
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Aug 30, 2021 07:35
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