|
Tias posted:How do I keep my dwarves from tantrum spiraling? I ended up with around 100 dwarves, and after losing a couple to violence I started having several of my squad leaders and the captain of the guard dropping in and out of fugue states and depression. It seems like keeping my dwarves sane is a lot harder than prior editions (they have all amenities, beautiful rooms, large dining halls, statue parks, hot baths etc. etc. ). I play Masterwork if that offers any perspective. You don't, unless you're willing to use dfhack to periodically wipe out their negative thoughts. The negative thoughts are permanent and so tantrum spirals are inevitable.
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2021 17:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 07:56 |
|
|
I thought recent updates toned down dwarven tantrum spirals? Is that not the case?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2021 19:09
|
|
|
It's just really not enough, is all. One thing you can do (but probably isn't worth the effort) is screen for dwarves that specifically have "So and So saw _really bad thing_ and felt nothing" in their thoughts and all dwarves who don't have these traits should be sent away to go live in a nearby hill community or wherever is convenient.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
Popete posted:I thought recent updates toned down dwarven tantrum spirals? Is that not the case? Your fort might last 6 years instead of 4 before it's destroyed by a tantrum spiral but the fundamental problem (not actually regarded as a problem by Toady, it's working as intended) is still there
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2021 21:00
|
|
|
If he's playing Masterwork he's a few versions behind anyway I think. The real answer is that eventually your soldiers will become incapable of feeling emotions and the constant slaughter will stop bothering them. Their only solace will lie in booze.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2021 22:59
|
|
|
Maugrim posted:The update mentioned guilds allowing demonstrations of tricks of the trade so I wonder if there will be some kind of medical guild with surgeons doing live/public demonstrations - would not be too far away from actual historical precedent yeah, doctors' guilds are totally a thing right now the only challenge is accumulating enough medicinemans to get the petition off the ground
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2021 23:18
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:If he's playing Masterwork he's a few versions behind anyway I think. The real answer is that eventually your soldiers will become incapable of feeling emotions and the constant slaughter will stop bothering them. Their only solace will lie in booze. Yeah i never had a spiral because sad dawi take the slayer oath and either learn to live with it or die in glorious combat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2021 23:19
|
|
|
it's less that every single dwarf is doomed to eventually fall into tantrum spiraling than that some dwarves, with a specific set of traits, are doomed there are two overlapping systems involved: needs/preferences, and stress. needs and preferences are things like the ubiquitous dwarven need for alcohol, need for religion, need for friends, need for (good/favorite) foods and drinks, etc. each of these things has a relative weight which is particular to that dwarf -- some dwarves find tremendous solace in alcohol, for example, while others are less enthusiastic about it. (note that this has no relationship to the biological dwarven need for alcohol, which is different and its effects separate) the value of each met or unmet need is taken, capped and then periodically added together, and that added value then increases or decreases the dwarf's stress level because of the cap, it's not fully fungible -- a dwarf that is miserable in 10 different ways isn't going to be happy just because one other thing they like is available in abundance -- but a dwarf that is fulfilled in the ways that matter most to them can ignore a lot of other bad poo poo. like one "important" need being fully met can cancel out 4-5 unmet ones, and this is the secret to identifying emotionally resilient dwarves a dwarf whose top priority needs, the ones with the biggest weight, are easy to fulfill will be happy basically forever. in a typical fort, this means hardcore alcoholics and religious zealots, usually. on the other hand, some dwarves get very little benefit from the "easy" needs, or even lack them altogether -- a good example is atheist dwarves, who are almost always doomed to tantrum. also, you may notice that your initial 7 are often (though not always) among the emotionally sturdiest dwarves -- this is because, possibly as a by-product of the initial 7 being created out of the whole cloth rather than from historical figures, they always have a maxed-out love of alcohol. i'm not sure if this is a bug or a feature, but it's generally good for you as a player. e: also with regard to religion it's important to have separate temples to each of the gods, not just one big ecumenical temple. most dwarves are happy with an interfaith space but the ones who are really serious about religion will refuse to use it, and those are exactly the dwarves you want to keep around because they can basically get full-on Book of Job poo poo on and keep on trucking Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Aug 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 01:53
|
|
|
also by contrast some needs are like "wants to eat their favorite food" but then dwarves always take the most recently created food item they can find, even if it's something they hate, so even if you have an insane variety of gourmet options in your fortress they will seek out crap they don't actually want and then complain about it
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 02:00
|
|
|
it makes sense, I bet you could count on one hand the typical fantasy dwarf empire that didn't collapse into ruin through their own faults and hubris anyways, it's only natural for every df fort to fall apart eventually
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 02:04
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:dwarves always take the most recently created food item they can find, even if it's something they hate what the gently caress why does it work this way??? i am so glad that the steam version seems to have been toady's moment where he realized that most players interface exclusively with fortress mode and maybe everything in fortress mode should be at least halfway not-broken
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 02:04
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:what the gently caress why does it work this way??? i am so glad that the steam version seems to have been toady's moment where he realized that most players interface exclusively with fortress mode and maybe everything in fortress mode should be at least halfway not-broken probably a legacy decision from when they didn't even have preferences that's just never been revisited
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 02:05
|
|
|
Something important to keep in mind is that if a need is unmet a dwarf will try to meet that need until it is sufficiently met at the first opportunity presented. Which means if you have a religious zealot and you don't make a temple to their god for 3 years they will spend the next 3 years praying to their god to catch up. So make those temples asap!
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
oh yeah, further addendum: although need weighting is particular to individual dwarves, dwarven culture influences it. you're gonna see a lot more dwarves who like booze and honest work than you would dwarves who have a strong "respect for nature" or whatever this is mostly unimportant to you as a player in unmodded fortress mode, but it does mean that you can design your fort to prioritize things that dwarves in general tend to enjoy and get better results in aggregate, without going insane trying to psychoanalyze every hairy little lunatic in your care carefully creating perfect conditions for legendary craftsdwarves is a good idea, though, both because they're the ones you least want to lose and also because IIRC there are some interactions between the need and stress systems, and speed and quality of work
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 02:12
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:even if you have an insane variety of gourmet options in your fortress they will seek out crap they don't actually want and then complain about it Hell, same.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
also i didn't know this until just now but having "completed a dream" (e.g. "dreams of creating a great work of art") prevents a dwarf from ever going insane from stress, although it can still happen as a result of failing a strange mood -- they can still tantrum but they won't break completely
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 02:21
|
|
|
I've always wondered if it's possible to complete the "dreams of ruling the world" one.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 05:13
|
|
|
Sounds like I need to remember to make a temple row for all these little shitmouse gods next fortress I play. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 15:35
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:what the gently caress why does it work this way??? i am so glad that the steam version seems to have been toady's moment where he realized that most players interface exclusively with fortress mode and maybe everything in fortress mode should be at least halfway not-broken Does this mean the Steam version will actually have dwarves replace their rotting, ragged clothing, or that military dwarves will actually go put on a full set of armor when it's available?
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 15:50
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Does this mean the Steam version will actually have dwarves replace their rotting, ragged clothing, or that military dwarves will actually go put on a full set of armor when it's available? Let's not get TOO ahead of ourselves here
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 20:45
|
|
|
dwarves are still disgusting little gremlins so don't get your hopes too high
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
I embarked on a site that ended up having tons of magnetite, coal, and flux about 10 layers down. Got a legendary armorsmith in my first migration wave, a high master weaponsmith in my second migration wave. 4 now axe lords in full steel, a working magma pumpstack for convenient steel smelting.. and not a single goblin 3 & 1/2 years in. I thought for sure I saw them on my neighbors list when choosing my site and I just want to cut some god drat heads off
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 16:16
|
|
|
thunderspanks posted:I embarked on a site that ended up having tons of magnetite, coal, and flux about 10 layers down. Got a legendary armorsmith in my first migration wave, a high master weaponsmith in my second migration wave. 4 now axe lords in full steel, a working magma pumpstack for convenient steel smelting.. and not a single goblin 3 & 1/2 years in. I thought for sure I saw them on my neighbors list when choosing my site and I just want to cut some god drat heads off train up some dudes and send them raiding, they'll probably retaliate sooner or later i've had worlds where goblins didn't actually get around to attacking me till like 5 years in, although usually it was a consequence of settling a really remote location. it's even technically possible, although extremely rare, for dwarven civs to end up at peace with goblin ones
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 16:24
|
|
|
thunderspanks posted:I embarked on a site that ended up having tons of magnetite, coal, and flux about 10 layers down. Got a legendary armorsmith in my first migration wave, a high master weaponsmith in my second migration wave. 4 now axe lords in full steel, a working magma pumpstack for convenient steel smelting.. and not a single goblin 3 & 1/2 years in. I thought for sure I saw them on my neighbors list when choosing my site and I just want to cut some god drat heads off I mean, if I was a goblin and heard the new fortress that popped up nearby had all that stuff, I wouldn't be too eager to gently caress with it either
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 16:31
|
|
|
If I start another LP here that'll be my... 4th start? Man, I'm prolific. but yeah, i'll probably generate a world today
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 21:58
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:i've had worlds where goblins didn't actually get around to attacking me till like 5 years in, although usually it was a consequence of settling a really remote location. it's even technically possible, although extremely rare, for dwarven civs to end up at peace with goblin ones Does this mean you get goblin caravans and can trade for stuff like tame beak dogs?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 22:06
|
|
|
I'm less interested even in reading LPs these days, I'm just too focused on the Steam version. It's going to be so great. I have been watching the new one from Kruggsmash though, they are always something special
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 07:39
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Does this mean you get goblin caravans and can trade for stuff like tame beak dogs? in an unmodded game they only sell cloth rags and, like, a few other worthless odds and ends
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 14:01
|
|
|
Ok am I missing something or is there an easy way to stop guildhalls from prioritizing themselves over absolutely every other labor? I'd love for my cooks to actually do their loving jobs instead of attending demonstrations edit: holy poo poo every single dwarf in a guild is ignoring all their job assignments to watch demonstrations at the guild hall. Including some of my active military. Surely this can't be default behavior thunderspanks fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Sep 4, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 16:19
|
|
|
e: guildhalls != taverns, nevermind
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
I keep trying to get into this game every once in a while, but I keep bouncing off on one specific point - the military. I guess I don't understand the UI for it at all and I can't seem to get people to do their uniforms
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 22:37
|
|
|
Yep, same. I've been trying for years to figure out that One Weird Trick to make soldiers actually put their loving armor on and keep their loving armor on, but it is deep magic. Also almost every fort I've ever run has ended by the 5 year mark or so (if it hasn't wiped otherwise by then) with an Eternal Siege, which is apparently a venerable but still existent bug that I continually trip over and have no idea how or why. I mean you can keep playing but you'll never see another caravan or migrant wave and that's no fun. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Sep 4, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 22:46
|
|
|
I confess I never really was able to learn the military. The fortunate thing is that you can instead build traps to keep invaders out, and it isn't even that hard to make exceptionally lethal ones. I am personally fond of dropping enemies down great big holes with retractable drawbridges, though sometimes I mix it up by having enemies walk along natural bridges above great big holes that are covered with weapons traps, so they dive down the holes themselves. I generally did 10-15 z levels deep so very little, if anything survives. And if something does? That's what magma is for. Another one I am fond of is the instant drowner trap, which is basically a large open building placed above the entrance that is nice and dry at the ground floor, and then has three or four floors full of water above it, held up by retractable bridges. Enemy enters, doors get sealed, lever gets pulled, reservoir drops one tile, and goblins get to experience live as a fish. Honestly, building new and interesting traps was part of what kept me going in my fortresses.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 22:57
|
|
|
The one mood debuff my dwarves always seem to get is 'missing friends and family', which I'm assuming there's not much I can do about. Should I be making them socialize more, to get new friends? I seem to remember one Kruggsmash series where he set up a burrow as like a 'festival' every year. Do dwarves really socialize much if they're busy? I seem to remember they don't build relationships if they're working on something, so it's down to the meeting halls/taverns/etc. Mine never seem to at all, despite my last fort having a poo poo ton of temples and guilds, and a tavern crammed with entertainers. Should I be letting my dwarves be idle more often, basically? E: Similarly, I never seem to get dwarves marrying. Married couples show up in migrant waves, and I think one pair once became romantically involved, but otherwise they all seem to be celibate. Wolfechu fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Sep 4, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 23:09
|
|
|
Frankly these days I usually just disable invasions and only keep a ceremonial military to justify having a metal industry. It's not worth all the frustration, and I can focus on building elaborate mountain home to my heart's content.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 23:13
|
|
|
I solved the military problem by being bad at the game and chuckling as my river-toll-bridge-cafe concept fort inhabited by liberal arts majors collapses yet again
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2021 21:15
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:in an unmodded game they only sell cloth rags and, like, a few other worthless odds and ends Does raiding them work then, or is that stuff a mod too? Seems weird that they don't trade exotic stuff when elves do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2021 04:22
|
|
|
yeah you can raid goblins for domesticated beak dogs and other goodies, trade goods are just hardcoded or something it's also possible my info is out of date, i'm just going off the last time this happened to me organically, which was some time and many versions ago
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2021 01:53
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Yep, same. I've been trying for years to figure out that One Weird Trick to make soldiers actually put their loving armor on and keep their loving armor on, but it is deep magic. I have had basically 100% success with changing armor from over clothes to replacing clothes. Dwarves will strip down and replace each lost item of clothing with the corresponding armor. This has worked for years. If you care, you can assign the generic items of clothing as part of the uniform and they should accommodate. You can keep people on eternal military shift and it generally works fine. You don't need to gently caress with patrol routes or shifts or whatever. You only really need to know three things for the military: forming squads, equipping squads, and stationing squads, thats it. A thing thats relatively undocumented (I think) is squad leaders and commanders get first pick of higher quality gear. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Sep 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2021 08:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 07:56 |
|
|
The last time I tried messing around with the military I thought I was doing pretty good. Had a full squad of melee and another of all archers. I was in the middle of trying to figure out how to build guard towers looking over my wall when a goblin wave showed up, so I called all my CQC dwarves to the main hallway, ready to meet the enemy head on! Then  I think I did actually manage to kill them all, but by then I was left with maybe 5 PTSD'd horribly injured dwarves and a fortress full of corpses and blood. Didn't last too much longer in that game 
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2021 08:29
|
|
