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If you're playing peacefully, you'll get the Builder/Agrarian/Science stars easily. If you're conquering people, you'll get Military/Builder/Agrarian/Expansionist easily. But if you have a lot of military units or a lot of cities, that actively hinders you from getting the Merchant and Aesthete stars. Influence is important, but gold is by far the worst resource. Has anyone here had success with a laissez-faire economy to buy stuff with gold instead of industry? I find that the collectivist economy is always better.
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Sep 3, 2021 08:34
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It comes down to the simple fact that growing food, industry, and science are all super necessary. You need these three resources to do anything. But for gold you only need enough to buy luxuries and support an army and you get that naturally through traders (which are pops you get through food so it’s again just another food metric) Combine that with food and industry literally growing on trees so you can always plop down a +20-30 makers / farmers quarters but merchant quarters need half the map to be effective and even then oof… Schools give +1 science per pop but tax officers give +3 per city it doesn’t take a genius to run far away from any money-based strategy.
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Sep 3, 2021 08:39
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I don't really use money for building much because it's too expensive; mostly for buying up infrastructure that my cities don't have at the moment at most. Most of my money gets burned on event choices and on upgrading my military to the latest tech unit possible. At war I also burn a lot of money to heal unit stacks which keeps my armies in the field longer than expected and preserves my population count.
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Sep 3, 2021 09:18
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Chamale posted:Influence is important, but gold is by far the worst resource. Has anyone here had success with a laissez-faire economy to buy stuff with gold instead of industry? I find that the collectivist economy is always better. I've had luck with a gold economy when I plan it out in advance. I go X > Aksumites > Khmer > Dutch and I build as many Dutch emblematic districts as possible. If you can get a critical mass of Dutch emblematic buildings you can attach territories at a much faster rate than using influence. It scales very well, but it comes online so late that I always feel like I would have won regardless.
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Sep 3, 2021 13:46
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Skipping carthage seems like a poor choice. -25% to building buyout cost is huge, and the cothon has really solid industry. That lets you skip khmer, getting a ton more income or taking the english for a food explosion. The extra harbor comes into play again when you pick the dutch.
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Sep 3, 2021 14:33
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Harbors really need to work like hamlets and let you build from them now you're limited to 4 max per territory. Though yeah harbors with the first two food faith tenants backing them up are super strong. The Cothon as well deserves particular mention, as it's the only triple duty district in the game iirc.
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Sep 3, 2021 14:40
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What determines how long it will take to construct an outpost? The second one I laid down took like 16 turns. I built 3 and 4 before it finished.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:28
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pro starcraft loser posted:What determines how long it will take to construct an outpost? The production in its starting exploitation ring. It essentially has to build itself using only the resources in the area you place it.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:32
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The production the outpost has. Also note you can move outposts to a better location after they are placed down if you wish. Annoyingly it doesn't tell you what the yields will be in it's new location.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:32
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pro starcraft loser posted:What determines how long it will take to construct an outpost? Its the production, I don't remember how much it needs off-hand.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:33
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Tom Tucker posted:It comes down to the simple fact that growing food, industry, and science are all super necessary. You need these three resources to do anything. But for gold you only need enough to buy luxuries and support an army and you get that naturally through traders (which are pops you get through food so it’s again just another food metric) The thing is, you can totally skip food and/or production for gold and it's not a big deal. I did an all in on gold/some science run and by the contemporary era I was doing this:  At which point I really don't give a poo poo that my production is severely lagging behind because I can buy out districts and infrastructure and stacks like they're candy. I built just enough farmer's quarters to keep pop mostly stable, and switched to spamming science quarters once my money was in in the ludicrous range. Sure there were barely any pops to work science jobs but it barely matters at that point because just putting the district down gives +20-40 science flat per.
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Sep 3, 2021 17:12
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After playing this a bunch on Civilization difficulty I have concluded that it is in better shape than Civ VI launch but worse shape than Civ V launch. The combat mechanism is the major saving grace as using terrain to get efficient fights is highly satisfying. They need to fix a bunch of minor issues but there are also some core issues that need to be fleshed out majorly. Major issues Identify - this is a big issue as culture-swapping is one of the core mechanics of the game but it effectively erases the identity and storytelling elements that make a 4x game so much fun. In Master or Orion or Stellaris you may be a group of scrappy humans who happen to run into blood-thirsty robots as your nearest neighbor, but you're able to join in a federation with like-minded aliens to overcome them. How would that feel if the robots suddenly turned into tree-people with no warning? And what's worse, in this game the identity simply doesn't connect to the "behavior". Even in Civ yes you are Teddy Roosevelt settling a city in 4,000 BC but you have an identity, and when you run into Gilgamesh you celebrate and then realize Montezuma and Genghis Khan are next door and you know that will be part of the story. In this game the only identity you and the other AI have are colors. Yes if you go into the diplomacy screen you get to see an avatar who is effectively meaningless but that's about it. The worst part is that identity swaps happen so suddenly. You're next to the Harrapans and having a lovely time trading with them when suddenly they invade you with a huge stack of horse archers - that's not fun it just flips the game completely. On top of it what is YOUR identity? Culture and storytelling takes a back seat to min-maxing. This is so foundational I'm not sure how to fix it but it makes every game feel the same and, ultimately, totally forgettable, while I think we all remember story-lines we created from other 4x games even years later because of the identities of the empires and the characters of their leaders. Pacing - the pace of this game just feels all wrong. Unless you prioritize tech all the way through you'll be in the contemporary era as an empire while still in the early-modern era tech-wise. This not only creates major balance issues making the emblematic district of the top cultures super important because it basically cheats out two-era ahead district tech but also can trap the player like it did to me when I unlocked strip mines but no way to clean up pollution resulting in the game just ending. This isn't a simple fix because I imagine the AI has been "balanced" against this pace. It also all comes down to the era stars. Simply increasing the stars needed for each era would seem a simple fix, but then you realize by later eras expansion and militarist are basically inaccessible for any peaceful play style. Options to fix would be to adjust the scaling and triggers of stars and allow them to be received in more varied ways by still requiring more of them to stretch the culture eras to more closely match the tech eras. End Conditions - If you're winning you're encouraged to just pollute the world to win, that's stupid. A science win is triggered if you get every tech on the tech tree which makes the last techs on the tech tree, especially the last one you research, pointless. I discovered Fusion! This is great, I can now clean up the polluted world and - oh the game is over. In Civ VI I almost always play on every win condition except religious but in this game I'm tempted to turn off wind conditions because they sneak up so suddenly and it's just not fun. The "global warming" win condition needs to be overhauled, along with pollution if I'm honest, and others need to be rethought, particularly science. Religion - what is it even for? How do I get it? How is it spreading? I've won multiple games and I have no idea. It appears to just pick a flat starting bonus (triggered by...?) based on pops or territory, then holy sites give stability, yay, then with enough faith (or followers?) you get to add 4 tenets that give you bonuses and that's it? The only thing I've seen it useful for is war grievences for oppressing my faithful because even at higher difficulties I've never seen a neighboring civ not be completely overwhelmed by my religion without me doing anything. Then you get to the mid game and are given a choice to just throw the entire mechanism in the garbage bin through "irreligion"? Weird... Civics - influence prices scale way too fast to get most of the civics, which is fine because they're almost all terrible and I've only ever seen half of them. What do those civics in the top connected to the lines do? gently caress if I know! Do I want to pay 9,000 influence to assimilate free cities, which no longer exist anywhere, for 100 influence less? What about spending 10,000 influence to get +5 gold on my main plaza, you kidding me? Events - flat cost events stink. It's almost always worth paying 100 gold here or there for a good outcome, but when a choice is between +15 science or +15 gold and I'm making thousands of both it just doesn't matter. The events FEEL small in scale too. Lift a boat out of the water? Allow a single scientist to join us? People are annoyed by my personal Rasputin? In almost every case the best outcome is tied to the "good" ideologies (Collectivism, World, Liberty, Progress) which makes it even easier to slam all the way to the end of these ideology axes and sit there which is fine because they also give the best multipliers (Industry, Food, Influence, Science, respectively, compared to Money, Combat Strength, Vision Range (??), and faith). Connect events to civics. Complicate the ideology axes and make it less of a no brainer. Make rewards meaningful so you're not just picking what pushes you to Progress or Liberty or just picking the obvious best option whose only downside is "-160 gold". Minor issues / quick fixes War Conclusion / outpost raiding - when a war ends or an outpost gets attached units are stranded there forced to end turn. I think it's fixed if I draw a line to my territory but it doesn't seem to always work, Civ solved easily (albeit clumsily) by shunting units out of opponent territory, stranding units is dumb as hell. Overpopulation - yes I get it my city has too much growth, this is an engaging gameplay element but you pop up saying my city is "starving" due to low growth. It's not! It's so super annoying. Make unemployed pops do nothing but reduce stability (and thus growth, self-solving the issue) and then let Agrarian cultures (who run into this problem most) use their migration ability to fix it. Then have social welfare programs later in the game with reduced instability from unemployed and more options to create "jobs" through expensive infrastructure. Infrastructure Balance - some are just so much better than others. +3 gold on capital? Come on... New cities being better than old cities - Start a new city and get ALL the infrastructure you've researched for free is stupid powerful and makes new cities better than old ones. Replace this tech that simply applies a flat -X% industry discount to infrastructure from earlier eras empire wide until my Public Fountain is -80% industry and my Aqueduct is -60% and my hospital is full price. This allows new cities to catch up quickly and old cities to not feel left in the dust. Luxury trading a no-brainer - add some complexity here, not sure how. Meeting new civs is one of the easiest ways to surge your game forward because of the massive FIMS / stability surge that comes from buying 10+ luxuries all at once. Diminishing returns maybe, with infrastructure to mitigate it? AI battle fixes - AI is too easy to out-maneuver give appropriate geography, it just needs to be a lot smarter in general. Starting a war just so watch the AI run two horse scouts and two warriors through my easily-ransacked territory just to break like a wave against Levies behind Palisades isn't engaging. Stability / loading time / crashes - self explanatory, this game crashes on me like crazy.
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Sep 3, 2021 22:41
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pro starcraft loser posted:What determines how long it will take to construct an outpost? Like others have said - the production of the placement, but, it also receives a boost based on the strength of the army placing it. You can buy it out as well once you're out of the Neolithic.
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Sep 3, 2021 22:50
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Now that I've basically solved the game, I'm curious how fast I can win peacefully on Humankind difficulty. I got turn 135, what the game calls 261 C.E., but I can certainly do better.  I went Egypt - Celts - Khmer - Joseon - France - Turkey. I think the Harappans might be better for this strategy, because the key thing is to spam Public Schools to end the game. Once you enter the contemporary era as Turkey, you hit an inflection point with science and the game is over within 15 turns:  Another possibility that might be even faster is to play as the Germans in the Industrial Era, and deliberately destroy the world with Coking Works. Chamale fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 3, 2021 |
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Sep 3, 2021 23:27
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I'd say don't sleep on Mughals their bonus is one of the strongest and most insane production modifiers in game. 2% production per territory in your sphere of influence on capital. I'm not entirely sure if that just means territory you influence or territory you have attached, but either way it's bonkers. Even if you only have a relatively small empire at 10 territories, you still get 20% bonus production. I've been messing around with avoiding Khmer just because I've never tried anything else, and the Mughals provide what feels like an even stronger power bump.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:38
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I picked Joseon in my current campaign, and I'm not terribly impressed by them. The Mughals' passive bonus wasn't something I really noticed in my earlier campaign where I picked them, but in retrospect I had something like 40 territories by the time the game ended, so they must've been giving me a massive production bonus in my capital. It's one of those bonuses that you don't really notice because it's so incremental, but it really adds up. edit: "Sphere of Influence" is your overall cultural influence. So that bonus is not just counting your attached territories, but your unattached outposts, and also any foreign territory you've successfully spread your influence to. It can be beneficial to let some of your territory fall under another empire's influence too. Some random outpost of mine is in another empire's sphere currently, and I'm constantly getting scientific osmosis events there that let me buy techs for cash. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Sep 3, 2021 |
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Sep 3, 2021 23:46
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Yeah I mean if you've been going production the whole game it's possibly not that noticeable, but I went Zhou -> Achmaenids -> Teutons -> Mughals and that spike made my capital basically as strong as if I had been going production civs.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:05
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Eimi posted:I'd say don't sleep on Mughals their bonus is one of the strongest and most insane production modifiers in game. 2% production per territory in your sphere of influence on capital. I'm not entirely sure if that just means territory you influence or territory you have attached, but either way it's bonkers. Even if you only have a relatively small empire at 10 territories, you still get 20% bonus production. I've been messing around with avoiding Khmer just because I've never tried anything else, and the Mughals provide what feels like an even stronger power bump. You can see your sphere of influence by clicking the purple circle in the bottom left.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:37
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Yeah... I made a big mistake by not going Mughals here, lol. I should've counted the territories in my sphere before choosing.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:39
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You don't even need to count, it says 33 territories right there at the top of the hold section. Which is a pretty weird header actually.
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Sep 4, 2021 03:11
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Staltran posted:You don't even need to count, it says 33 territories right there at the top of the hold section. Which is a pretty weird header actually. I almost admire Amplitude's persistent, low-key disdain for la langue anglaise
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Sep 4, 2021 06:54
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I think the morphing cultures is great, the issue is that the leaders currently don't have enough personality to hold it together.
Ratios and Tendency fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 09:38
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If you want to spice things up, I find that Pangea makes it harder to really abuse trade because they're more expensive due to the relative lack of sea routes. Also the neighboring AIs will be able to somewhat competently muster an invasion force or the local superpower of the continent will make their way towards you for an invasion.
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Sep 4, 2021 10:33
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Ratios and Tendency posted:I think the morphing cultures is great, the issue is that the leaders currently don't have enough personality to hold it together. Just making it say “Mao - French” instead of just French would go a long way.
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Sep 4, 2021 16:18
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What's the end game like? I ask because my games keep ending before I'm anywhere near late game tech.
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Sep 4, 2021 16:32
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I have no idea, my games tend to end when there's no saltpeter or iron to be had and I'm trying to get guns. The resource system is very dumb and overpowered. Also, don't make the mistake of spawning next to a bunch of the weaker resources! And make sure there's some question marks around so you have a chance for future strategic resources. Of course, you find out 20 minutes later that it's all copper and you're hosed but whatever.
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Sep 4, 2021 16:41
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Yeah even with the updated beta patch spawning, way too many territories are just blank. I really think there should be at least one resource, luxury or strategic or a wonder per territory. Having blank terrain is so boring, especially when stuff seems to cluster. There will be vast swaths of nothing and then one province will have 3 strategics and a luxury.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:13
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Just got this on game pass. I like it but have restarted several times just learning a bit each time. The two biggest issues I’m still wrapping my head around are military and influence. Should I always have several full stacks of up to date military units on my borders? Influence seems overwhelming in my lands. I seemingly meet a new civ and within 5 turns half my empire has entirely switched to the new culture and tries to break away. What am I doing wrong?
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Sep 4, 2021 18:22
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Is a anyone else having problems with their civics not unlocking?
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Sep 4, 2021 18:25
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AnEdgelord posted:Is a anyone else having problems with their civics not unlocking? Civics are really bugged and you basically never see most of them because they just don't proc.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:26
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AnEdgelord posted:Is a anyone else having problems with their civics not unlocking? if you know that a civic you want unlocks linearly, like the democracy tree, you could try cancelling the current most-advanced edict and re-enacting it immediately. that can jumpstart a stuck rng. if it's something that just procs out of the air (for example Army Wages  ), you're out of luck.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:49
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Nash posted:Just got this on game pass. I like it but have restarted several times just learning a bit each time. If you want an up to date army it's better to focus on gold production because upgrades start increasing drastically in price. Otherwise there's the alternative in researching the latest city militia tech possible (with science cultures you can research tech one Era ahead which makes Joseon and France especially potent). If production is how you build armies you can instead disband units in a stack one at a time and slowly build it up to same Era standard that way.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:52
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It was after about 80 hours playing that I discovered the leaders aren’t just cosmetic with random attributes but have built in biases and DIFFICULTIES associated with them
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Sep 4, 2021 18:52
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Something I'd love as an actual mod or game mode would be an option to let the human advance first. I hate the pure rngfest that it is to get Myceneans, and the AI seems bad at advancing sometimes. One or two ais keep up and the rest make the bizarre choice to transcend despite not having the stubborn trait. Like to try and balance it out they could make it so when you advance it lets ALL the ais rank up (and doesn't let them transcend), and I mean if you're behind the ai not advancing is probably the right choice for them score wise so I don't think it'd be that overpowered.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:56
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Tom Tucker posted:It was after about 80 hours playing that I discovered the leaders aren’t just cosmetic with random attributes but have built in biases and DIFFICULTIES associated with them It took me more than one playthrough to realize that resources in unattached territories can still be used. I thought only city resources mattered. Whoops.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:11
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Eimi posted:Something I'd love as an actual mod or game mode would be an option to let the human advance first. simultaneous turns is real bad in a game where the AI always has perfect instantaneous clicks and the player's information is on an animation-based delay
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Sep 4, 2021 19:16
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Fur20 posted:simultaneous turns is real bad in a game where the AI always has perfect instantaneous clicks and the player's information is on an animation-based delay That too. You never get to attack in a siege which is hilarious and....honestly with how suicidal the ai is with it's militia probably better for you. Also on the subject of turns, attacker getting to move EVERYTHING first is so insane once you remember there's no limit to the size of a battle. They really need to rethink that and implement either some kind of initiative system, a sane cap on number of units in a battle (otherwise why care about army size at all?) or an I go, you go system.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:20
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Ratios and Tendency posted:I think the morphing cultures is great, the issue is that the leaders currently don't have enough personality to hold it together. I think even just referring to each nation by their flag - hawk nation, spear nation, whatever - with their current culture in bold and previous cultures in smaller text would lend a bit of consistency to it.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:27
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Let the user name their opponents. Real cultures have names for other countries that are not precisely what the other country calls itself, or even necessarily a translation thereof. Edit Like, I will know exactly who I am dealing with if a popup says that I have a new grievance on the "Horse stealing bastards" or the "Magenta Motherfuckers" or the "LOL landlocked Norse" Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 21:51
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Veryslightlymad posted:Let the user name their opponents. Real cultures have names for other countries that are not precisely what the other country calls itself, or even necessarily a translation thereof. Or just use the Avatar's name! Slash let me change the names of the ones I download so it's not just xxxSasukeNarutoxxx
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Sep 4, 2021 22:05
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