(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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yeah what is the justification for calling literal revolutionary Rosa Luxemburg a reformist
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Sep 4, 2021 22:40
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| # ? May 25, 2024 18:47 |
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John Charity Spring posted:yeah what is the justification for calling literal revolutionary Rosa Luxemburg a reformist The strongest argument would be 'criticised the Bolsheviks who had done a revolution' but lol if you're that loving myopic.
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Sep 4, 2021 22:43
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less soviet union historical minutiae and more zombiesThe Voice of Labor posted:night of the living boomers
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Sep 4, 2021 23:30
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what about sponsored ads from the liberal press 
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Sep 4, 2021 23:35
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namesake posted:The strongest argument would be 'criticised the Bolsheviks who had done a revolution' but lol if you're that loving myopic. Also anarchists are wrong about Rosa, who literally criticized Bolsheviks from the left and wanted them to kill national bourgeois in Russian colonies rather than allow national self-determination. She thought Lenin was too much of a pragmatist and a compromiser Rosa literally wrote an entire book called "Reform or Revolution" in which she castigated the entire reformist project Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 23:47 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 23:41
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yr new gurlfrand! posted:what about sponsored ads from the liberal press this one hurts my brain
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Sep 4, 2021 23:56
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Lenin himself was very fond of Rosa. (posting mostly because of the savage owns on socdems trying to recuperate her)Literally Vladimir Lenin posted:Paul Levi now wants to get into the good graces of the bourgeoisie—and, consequently, of its agents, the Second and the Two-and-a-Half Internationals—by republishing precisely those writings of Rosa Luxemburg in which she was wrong. We shall reply to this by quoting two lines from a good old Russian fable: “Eagles may at times fly lower than hens, but hens can never rise to the height of eagles.” Rosa Luxemburg was mistaken on the question of the independence of Poland; she was mistaken in 1903 in her appraisal of Menshevism; she was mistaken on the theory of the accumulation of capital; she was mistaken in July 1914, when, together with Plekhanov, Vandervelde, Kautsky and others, she advocated unity between the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks; she was mistaken in what she wrote in prison in 1918 (she corrected most of these mistakes at the end of 1918 and the beginning of 1919 after she was released). But in spite of her mistakes she was—and remains for us—an eagle. And not only will Communists all over the world cherish her memory, but her biography and her complete works (the publication of which the German Communists are inordinately delaying, which can only be partly excused by the tremendous losses they are suffering in their severe struggle) will serve as useful manuals for training many generations of Communists all over the world. “Since August 4, 1914, German Social-Democracy has been a stinking corpse"—this statement will make Rosa Luxemburg’s name famous in the history of the international working class movement. And, of course, in the backyard of the working-class movement, among the dung heaps, hens like Paul Levi, Scheidemann, Kautsky and all that fraternity will cackle over the mistakes committed by the great Communist. To every man his own. Lightningproof has issued a correction as of 01:20 on Sep 5, 2021 |
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Sep 5, 2021 01:16
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 gosh Tim I wonder what economic model objects to profiteering from everything
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Sep 5, 2021 13:50
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What a piece of poo poo
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Sep 5, 2021 15:00
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Sep 5, 2021 18:13
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Yossarian-22 posted:lol no she wasn't, and insofar as she was it was as much as Lenin and Trotsky were (prior to World War I throwing the door for revolution wide open and splitting the socialist parties throughout Europe along those lines) Calm down I didn’t say reformers like her deserved to be murdered MLSM has issued a correction as of 20:16 on Sep 5, 2021 |
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Sep 5, 2021 19:21
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what is this thread's take on firearms
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Sep 5, 2021 19:39
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We’re gonna need them against the fascist death squads and their liberal accomplices during the climate change wars
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Sep 5, 2021 19:51
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Raine posted:what is this thread's take on firearms I'm against firing any part of the worker
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Sep 5, 2021 19:51
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Raine posted:what is this thread's take on firearms Every worker a nuke.
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Sep 5, 2021 19:56
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Raine posted:what is this thread's take on firearms i know people get really mad when people attach all sorts of goofy tactilol poo poo to their guns but actually i think it can look pretty neat sometimes. like a sci fi kinda thing. that's my take thank's op
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Sep 5, 2021 19:57
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Raine posted:what is this thread's take on firearms 
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Sep 5, 2021 19:58
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Raine posted:what is this thread's take on firearms
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Sep 5, 2021 20:05
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Power grows out of a barrel of a gun. Western leftists are scared shitless of guns and by extension, power. How is the revolution going to come if you only whine online?
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Sep 5, 2021 20:23
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Fish of hemp posted:Power grows out of a barrel of a gun. The Big Lie in America is that liberalism is a “left” ideology, much like anarchism.
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Sep 5, 2021 20:39
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Raine posted:what is this thread's take on firearms 
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Sep 5, 2021 20:58
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When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun?
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Sep 5, 2021 21:15
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MLSM posted:The Big Lie in America is that liberalism is a “left” ideology, much like anarchism.
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Sep 5, 2021 21:17
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it’s bad when reactionaries have them. gun ownership is encouraged among them and gun-related activities are, too, and a lot of stuff around gun culture in the USA is connected to the military and police. I believe the gender roles and values encouraged by reactionary culture in an individualist society also contribute to gun culture and ownership. on the liberal side there’s a lot more I’m too tired to cover, but their resistance is to some degree calculated in a way that by design fails to protect and suppresses exploited people who need to defend themselves. as to those exploited people, activists, and leftists generally — arms have historically brought severe state attention in capitalist countries, and in some cases are used by undercover agents to sting people, so there can be a sense of justified caution or even paranoia. i personally believe most people in comfortable settings isolated from violence are unlikely to view violent actions favorably and non-violence has been a long-standing, intentionally enforced (by liberals and people influenced by them ) current in activism since the late 70s or so. if you live somewhere where “lives are cheap,” where people you know are being killed, you recognize the devastating power and its potential consequences, and you might be more prepared to fight back for survival.
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Sep 5, 2021 21:46
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there was a proud boys livestream yesterday where someone opened up on them with a handgun and it was rad as gently caress
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Sep 5, 2021 22:35
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espousing that opinion in an actual socialist group would make most people assume youre a cop lol
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Sep 6, 2021 01:13
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Guns are necessary.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:36
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reactionaries are allowed to carry, even in threatening numbers, generally harassment free because they're ideologically aligned with the state and the police. the left isn't, you saw what happened to the black panthers.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:36
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Does anyone have a copy of McCaine's reading list? I found this googling, but was wondering if there was a more recent version. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1UxS71xWaHTWDg5bld2ekFKcjQ/view?resourcekey=0-Lo_fsGwdVdhUI9aCtm03pw
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Sep 6, 2021 03:41
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I apologize, as I am somewhat new to Marxism. I joined a local group while I was unemployed (computer shop I worked at went under during Covid) and had time to go to meetings and help out. After reading this thread, I understand why Trotskyist ideology isn't for me but I am not quite sure how to answer some challenges that I have been getting from people now that I got a new job. My wife has always had a job at a non-profit social services organization, since she is very idealistic and wants to help those in need which is great. There was not friction about this when people inquired about her job. Now that I am now working at a local hardware store owned by a member of my church (liberal lutheran ELCA, has an open Lesbian as a pastor), and am being paid fairly (20 dollars an hour, full time is 30 hours, 3 wks of PTO starting out, free high deductible healthcare policy.) the first thing that has been happing is pressuring me to try to unionize the workers. Yes, I believe unions are a wonderful thing, but since I and my co-workers, are being treated fairly, its not going to really do any good. So I guess what I am asking is, OK, I understand what Marxism is, I think it is the way for people to help themselves overthrow how unfair capitalism is, and we should help people to achieve this. So right now, we are housing a couple who is having a tough time, who were kicked out of Amazon for trying to unionize, and are helping support others with money and physical support, but should I just go full steam ahead and try to unionize and sabotage the position I am in because, ultimately, I am working for a capitalist, and in the end, even if I am working for a "good" person in the bourgeoisie, nothing is being accomplished by not resisting against it? The same feelings among some people in the group also seem to go to the idea that my wife and I "own" (as in have a mortgage) on a house, and that no one should own property, that I have given into capitalism and in the end am just part of petit bourgeoisie who is lucky enough to live within capitalist society comfortably, while giving lip service to Marxism because I "feel guilty" to since I have more than many people have. Have I just fallen into a "bad" group? I mean, its not like when I was in college where someone tried to call me out for not dumpster diving or stealing food to live on, but I am not going to blame anyone if that is what they have to do to eat, and would condone anyone who is hungry that taking food is the right thing to do as it is a need, and no one should go hungry. I basically told someone to gently caress off when asking at what point I would report someone due to the size of something being stolen. We rent some Bobcats and small CAT backhoes, and yeah, if I saw someone try to steal an 80k machine, I would try to stop them, but the gently caress if I care if they steal some stuff to fix a sink, some candy, box of screws, or whatever. I know that its not worth my or someone else's life over any physical item, but yeah, a CAT backhoe is not something that someone needs to survive, but for some extreme circumstance like a baby down a well or a catastrophic cave in at a construction site. I argued that, if something like that happened, the hardware store would not be the first place that someone would turn, or if the extreme circumstance was the reason it was needed, we would gladly loan it to them for free. I guess I am not sure what to do, or how to act in these cercumstantes. I am not doing this for some form of "street cred" but capitalism is a brutal system. This feels like being back in college when it was impossible to pass any liberal purity test if you are white and or male, (this was in a Democratic Socialism group, and also in the LGBT support group) so no matter what, nothing that I would say or do is correct, Things like trying to do anything (I volunteered in the library lots because I was thinking of going in to library science) when helping a woman or an LGBT person with studying, fixing a computer, giving them money to buy a lunch if they were short, was considered a form of white male sexual aggression etc. I left the groups in college because I met my wife by helping her volunteering in the school library computer repair clinic, by installing an HD she purchased after the one in her laptop died. She was the one who asked me out, but I was reported for supposedly taking advantage of my position by dating her. Sorry this is a long ramble, I am just confused and frustrated. I want what is best for people, but am I just the rich man trying to enter the eye of a needle and have things like a house and a job that I like? I Miss Snausages has issued a correction as of 04:21 on Sep 6, 2021 |
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Sep 6, 2021 03:57
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Toupee Groupie posted:sabotage the position I am in If you feel like activism would hurt you and your family then don't do it. Ideologies should serve people. If people are required to act self-destructively to advance an ideology, that ideology will be defeated because its adherents will burn out. Some Marxists obsess over abstract conceptions like "historical processes" or "resolving the principle contradiction of production". It's very hubristic to think one person's contributions over the course of a few years (before they burn out) will change the course of human history. If you are taking care of yourself and those around you without hurting others, you are doing the right thing. Toupee Groupie posted:The same feelings among some people in the group also seem to go to the idea that my wife and I "own" (as in have a mortgage) on a house, and that no one should own property, that I have given into capitalism and in the end am just part of petit bourgeoisie who is lucky enough to live within capitalist society comfortably, while giving lip service to Marxism because I "feel guilty" to since I have more than many people have. Everyone should be secure in their living arrangements. Working class people owning their own home will not defeat communism.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:32
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but "private property" in the Marxist sense is more about the means of production, not, like, actual private homes and goods. Like yeah, housing should be more dense than the cancerous suburban sprawl of America, but you're still entitled to your own place.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:38
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Enjoy posted:If you feel like activism would hurt you and your family then don't do it. Thank you, it is nice to hear this. I want the best for everybody, and I feel that if I can help people due to my position in the world, then I should, because if I didn't it would be wrong not to.
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Sep 6, 2021 05:09
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Sorry mate but your group sounds like they don't have a great grasp on things. You sell your labor to make a living. You purchased your home to satisfy a basic need. I am not seeing how you are a class traitor. Their barking at you to unionise your workplace does not sound helpful. Have they given you any training or materials on how to do this? It takes time, effort and planning to build relationships with co-workers and to figure out what issues might fuel an organising effort. You absolutely have to be strategic about these things. If you show up to a new workplace and immediately start rocking the boat you are not going to accomplish anything except getting fired.
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Sep 6, 2021 05:26
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It's absolutely OK to own a dwelling, anyone telling you otherwise is nuts.
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Sep 6, 2021 05:27
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1stGear posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but "private property" in the Marxist sense is more about the means of production, not, like, actual private homes and goods. Like yeah, housing should be more dense than the cancerous suburban sprawl of America, but you're still entitled to your own place. The things you own and use are your personal property. The things which are the means by which someone extracts capital are private property. While it's true that some people have nicer personal property than others, such as seaside homes and expensive jewelry, that's the effect, and the consolidation of private property (financial holdings in industry, land owned for speculation or for the purposes of renting out) among a small number of hands is the cause.
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Sep 6, 2021 05:39
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I would contend that housing is always private and not personal property because a:) land is finite, no matter how efficient your production and b:) land is needed to put capital equipment on, forges and fabrication/assembly and power plants and stuff occupy space and need to be pretty much permanently located in one spot and and b2:) the biggy, land is agriculture and without that you don't get anything else. this is academic as I believe op's issue is that they were getting poo poo for home ownership in our capitalist hellscape and not any kind of planned socialist system cenotaph posted:It's absolutely OK to own a dwelling, anyone telling you otherwise is nuts.
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Sep 6, 2021 05:51
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Toupee Groupie posted:Have I just fallen into a "bad" group? Yes. I want to second Enjoy's excellent post. You're fine, relax. Communism doesn't depend on you, specifically, risking your and your family's safety. Take care of your people, build inroads with your community, keep your ear to the ground and help out where you can. Seems like you're doing all of this already.
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Sep 6, 2021 05:57
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*is literally sheltering union activists* uh, have you considered that you're petit bourgeois because you own your shelter 
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Sep 6, 2021 06:00
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| # ? May 25, 2024 18:47 |
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Enjoy posted:Ideologies should serve people. If people are required to act self-destructively to advance an ideology, that ideology will be defeated because its adherents will burn out. From what I can tell you're doing more for the cause than 99% of self-reported "communists" (including, it must be said, myself) and you're well within your rights morally to tell anyone saying otherwise to gently caress completely off.
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Sep 6, 2021 06:30
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