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PhoenixFlaccus posted:The move until all move points are gone is crazy. You can create a pocket of mongols and get +3 or 4 strength on most attacks. It reminds me of exploiting disgaea adjacency bonuses in a way. Move units into a supporting position then return/rearrange them as needed. There are all kinds of little tricks and poo poo to the movement system that you can really exploit it seems.
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Sep 11, 2021 06:41
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The Glumslinger posted:So I'm getting into this game a bit late, are there any recommended strategies for getting better. I'm definitely seeing that the more production I have, the better I'm doing. Religion is best when you have a high population and don't have to work too hard on maintaining a state religion. Influence is very important, and you should try to get as much of it as you can. Definitely secure lots of territory in the early game. You can win wars if you have a technology advantage or significant population advantage; otherwise, you should just try to be too prickly to be worth attacking. Luxury resources are extremely good, and a large part of your strategy should involve claiming and buying as many as you can, and rushing towards Patronage.
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Sep 11, 2021 06:47
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Patronage is straight up busted and unbalanced. You don't need to own all the copies of a resource to claim yourself as the best at it, merely to have access to half. So if you're sitting on one pearl, and some other empire across the planet has 6 deposits of pearls, you can trade for their pearls, specifically so you can then declare "Actually, my pearls are the best pearls" and get an enormous empire wide bonus for having done so. Just utterly ridiculous
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Sep 11, 2021 13:06
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Holy shits Huns + Mongols is loving amazing. I put it off because I'm not normally fight in civ games but it is so excellent. I am however losing enormous accounts of gold because I have 6 full stacks of Mongol hordes with no enemies left to fight or land left to settle then in
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Sep 11, 2021 19:28
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Holy shits Huns + Mongols is loving amazing. I put it off because I'm not normally fight in civ games but it is so excellent. Yeah I ended up disbanding some. Found it amusing to make Mongolian hoards start farming or pumping out an Empire State Building in the middle of a steppe.
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Sep 11, 2021 20:23
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Veryslightlymad posted:Patronage is straight up busted and unbalanced. You don't need to own all the copies of a resource to claim yourself as the best at it, merely to have access to half. So if you're sitting on one pearl, and some other empire across the planet has 6 deposits of pearls, you can trade for their pearls, specifically so you can then declare "Actually, my pearls are the best pearls" and get an enormous empire wide bonus for having done so. Just utterly ridiculous This feels like the type of game where almost everything is busted good.
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Sep 12, 2021 00:25
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Getting in a war and turtle game up with palisades while enemies break themselves on you is the easiest way to win wars and claim territories at high difficulty.
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Sep 12, 2021 01:11
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Ratios and Tendency posted:This feels like the type of game where almost everything is busted good. Eh not really. If you look at your graphs your FIMS should all have an obvious spike at patronage. It's not Turks level broken but it's the only other thing I've seen where the impact is so dramatic.
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Sep 12, 2021 02:03
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I think one thing I'm struggling with in this game is that the culture shifting thing essentially breaks the way amplitude games work, which is that you'll be excessively good in one thing but poo poo at another. For example in my Mycenaean > Hun > Mongol run I was falling behind in science. In a previous amplitude title I'd currently be going "oh poo poo I better hurry up and conquer everyone else before they research better weapons" but instead I've switched to Joseon and now I have massive army and a bunch of vassals but I'm also fixing my science shortfall. The only way I can think of fixing it it is making some sort of penalty for completely switching tracks but that kind of goes against the design of the game.
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Sep 12, 2021 13:40
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Staltran posted:Eh not really. If you look at your graphs your FIMS should all have an obvious spike at patronage. It's not Turks level broken but it's the only other thing I've seen where the impact is so dramatic. I mean, on one hand there's Patronage, and on the other there's whatever that tech is that gives your Commons Quarters +1 food. There are many things that aren't busted in this game, it's just that no one cares about them so we don't talk about them.
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Sep 12, 2021 14:08
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That's the problem with the AI, they haven't figured out which strategies are the incredibly overpowered ones. So they end up dicking around with a bunch of highly populated but underpowered cities, while my capital produces 10,000 industry per turn.
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Sep 13, 2021 08:08
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I'm trying to remember if Civ V was this rough when it came out, and I'm pretty certain that it was.
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Sep 13, 2021 19:22
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At launch the Civ V AI flat out couldn't defend or attack cities because the initial 1UPT implementation was so slapdash.
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Sep 13, 2021 19:26
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Would making districts scale in cost or heavily nerfing the stab bonus from trade goods help things? Anything to stop that huge spike in productivity that makes the later eras just not even matter. Like I haven't even gotten to use gunpowder units yet because the game is just done by then. Or like not use them for real; I've built some but only when I've won the game.
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Sep 13, 2021 19:40
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I think that districts in general shouldn't give flat yields and should require pop to be 'worth it'. Let Emblematic Quarters be flat yields so they are always good regardless of the state of the game. Every EQ should also double dip just because that's fun. Even if luxuries were nerfed somewhat there are still plenty of ways of ignoring stability, Austria in particular. Granted I haven't really looked at what causes the spike, but those are more feel things I'd enjoy.
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Sep 13, 2021 19:47
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Civ VI’s AI on release had some kind of weighting problem which made them refuse to attack cities or districts once walls went up, but didn’t apply while marshaling and moving an attack force, so you’d wind up with AI-composition armies rolling into your city borders and then sort of milling around, occasionally looting tiles until your district defenses and stationed ranged units picked them apart. e: also snowballing is the entire advantage a human being with plans has over a decision tree in a 4X, be it ever so sophisticated. You don’t have to be able to overmatch an AI player at all times, you just need to survive against them until all your poo poo kicks in. I honestly think ‘human history from just before agriculture to the present’ might just be too large a scope to build a game with interlocking and mutually-enhancing expansion systems. …that’s not quite right. Too large a scope, for a small enough core design team to maintain unity of theming and aesthetics, while also riding herd on a much larger group of people who are responsible for rendering that into concrete mechanics embedded in functional software, maybe is what I’m trying to say more accurately. LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 19:56
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LonsomeSon posted:Civ VI’s AI on release had some kind of weighting problem which made them refuse to attack cities or districts once walls went up, but didn’t apply while marshaling and moving an attack force, so you’d wind up with AI-composition armies rolling into your city borders and then sort of milling around, occasionally looting tiles until your district defenses and stationed ranged units picked them apart. *still has
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Sep 13, 2021 20:03
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didn't civ 6 also introduce a bug in one of the later updates (a minor civ update if i remember right?) that kinda just......... turned off the ai decision making or something too e: i'm gonna be honest, even with the bugs and problems that this game has it's beans compared to what the civ games have been doing
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Sep 13, 2021 20:07
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When a player controlled economy kicks in it *really* kicks in compared to the AI, which even at high difficulties is more dangerous in the very early Eras.
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Sep 13, 2021 20:11
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A lot of games which are about building things up over time run into problems where their themes, concepts, mechanics, or some blend of those just can’t scale in the same way that the game itself scales. Some method of pushing the scale out, and slowing down progress in all areas without being obtrusive or lovely about it, is needed. That happens in history-set 4Xes by going from your first city to your first several cities, and then instead of having a new UI and set of systems to transition to you just found or take more and more cities, with more and more army units be they stacks or carpets (stacks please holy gently caress).
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Sep 13, 2021 20:32
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Your Computer posted:didn't civ 6 also introduce a bug in one of the later updates (a minor civ update if i remember right?) that kinda just......... turned off the ai decision making or something too it certainly added a bug that makes the game unable to determine the value of a starting position, so you're roughly as likely to spawn in the rear end-end of a tiny island in the snow as you are to spawn in a regular starting location. it also made the game unable to weigh the distance between players, or to reroll your position to somewhere else, so you can also frequently start directly adjacent to another player's first settler and warrior. well i've been waiting for the fix for that since before the first expac as for humankind, the biggest bug was the player 3 AI getting free vision and influence on all non-player units, but that's patched. the rest seem to be, like, data-processing errors where your turn can't end because the game thinks a unit that's finished acting is still taking its turn. which aren't GOOD, but they also aren't fundamental problems with the game's own rules when it's working.
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Sep 13, 2021 20:38
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Seems like the turns end after a set duration after looking frozen but that's been my experience recently. Lot of systems still completely out of whack but I do love the game.
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Sep 13, 2021 21:22
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fnox posted:I'm trying to remember if Civ V was this rough when it came out, and I'm pretty certain that it was. Humankind is about as easily trivialized as Civ V was at launch, if not more so. The AI is leaps and bounds better, though. Not only did the AI in Civ V suck at keeping up, in warfare it was an absolute joke. Sydin already mentioned how it couldn't attack and defend cities, but the way the AI behaved itself in battle was just appalling. It would spend its turns shifting units back and forth while you destroyed everything with archer blobs. Combat was a total joke. Humankind's combat is far from perfect, but it's honestly way more interesting than the combat in any version of Civ ever. The AI can actually fight back somewhat decently during combat. Too bad the strategic AI is a bit daft. Why does it keep attacking my 5-unit stacks with lone horsemen? Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 22:41
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Humankind has issues but is definitely more fun to play around with than Civ 5 pre-expansions. There's a lot of things I'd like them to steal from Civ as they release DLC though.
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Sep 13, 2021 22:42
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Thom12255 posted:There's a lot of things I'd like them to steal from Civ as they release DLC though. For sure. Religion and civics in particular feel really bare bones and eventually destined to be the centerpieces of future expansions.
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Sep 13, 2021 23:06
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At the very least they should show you the unlock requirements for civics. I swear I still have only seen half of them.
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Sep 13, 2021 23:15
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Would making districts scale in cost or heavily nerfing the stab bonus from trade goods help things? What do you mean by districts scaling in cost? Isn't district price already increased depending on the number of districts already in the city?
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Sep 14, 2021 00:32
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Eimi posted:At the very least they should show you the unlock requirements for civics. I swear I still have only seen half of them. I would love to see some of the Civics that have remained locked in all my games so I could pick between +1 Influence on Common Quarters and +1 Influence on Holy Site for the cost of nine million influence and moving one square towards Authority
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Sep 14, 2021 00:36
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Staltran posted:What do you mean by districts scaling in cost? Isn't district price already increased depending on the number of districts already in the city? Not sure, they just seem to at some point only take 1 or 2 turns to build, while at the start of the game it's like 8ish? Like I'll just plot down 3 or so science districts per turn which doesn't seem right.
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Sep 14, 2021 00:37
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District costs do scale as you build more, just nowhere near as much as it should.
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Sep 14, 2021 00:41
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:District costs do scale as you build more, just nowhere near as much as it should. That isn't really going to solve anything though except make maker's quarters even more important. But ultimately the problem is that there are a lot of bonuses that scale per-district and the main limiting mechanic to counter district spam is stability. Stability stops being a problem as soon as you spend around 5k gold to secure all the luxuries then at that point you should just be building maker's quarters since their benefit is compounding and unbounded. Nothing else matters. In a pretty short amount of time you can build everything in the game in a handful of turns at all your cities, and unless the AI actually tries to actually stop you before that inflection point (probably turn ~100 or so) you become unstoppable.
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Sep 14, 2021 00:48
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Making the AI more hesitant to trade luxuries especially if the human has less luxuries (or asking for you to pay up gold for the privilege) plus aggressive AIs that try to enforce their demands more (which can interfere with luxuries by blocking trade routes and hence access) would probably do a lot to make it harder to quarter spam to victory.
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Sep 14, 2021 01:16
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Yeah it honestly sounds like the issue is luxury resources being able to completely avoid stability costs as compared to anything else.
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Sep 14, 2021 01:17
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Yeah, I think the ease and permanence of buying resources is a major issue right now.
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Sep 14, 2021 01:19
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Yeah, I think the ease and permanence of buying resources is a major issue right now. It's really silly that paying 90 gold can grant permanent access to a luxury. I wonder what kind of algorithm the AI is using to choose districts and infrastructure. My process is to start with industry, and then evaluate what constructible will increase an output by the greatest percentage (other than money, which sucks)
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Sep 14, 2021 01:53
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:That isn't really going to solve anything though except make maker's quarters even more important. But ultimately the problem is that there are a lot of bonuses that scale per-district and the main limiting mechanic to counter district spam is stability. Stability stops being a problem as soon as you spend around 5k gold to secure all the luxuries then at that point you should just be building maker's quarters since their benefit is compounding and unbounded. Nothing else matters. In a pretty short amount of time you can build everything in the game in a handful of turns at all your cities, and unless the AI actually tries to actually stop you before that inflection point (probably turn ~100 or so) you become unstoppable. Higher cost scaling means being able to build fewer makers quarters over any given period of time, which means you'll be unable to build as many research districts and snowballing will be slowed by a lot overall. With better-scaling district costs you would ultimately be able to achieve the same level of OPness eventually, but not until many turns later. I'm okay with snowballing eventually, it just happens way too fast and soon currently. Making stability less trivial to get around would also probably be good, but I think better district cost scaling needs to be added too. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 02:36
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Snow ball in the modern era, fine. But yeah right now there's no point to having nukes or subs or even muskets. Like the game is geared to end in the medieval era.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:03
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Yeah the second half of the game, starting with the early modern, seems much less refined than the first three eras
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Sep 14, 2021 03:15
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AnEdgelord posted:Yeah the second half of the game, starting with the early modern, seems much less refined than the first three eras They had extensive beta testing of the early eras, but not the later ones. The bread and circuses of stability seems to only care about bread. You can have a starving city with 25% of the population unemployed, and it'll remain perfectly stable. Also, it is a problem that the Maker's Quarters produce free industry out of nothing, even in the ancient era. How does a population of 0 build an Egyptian Pyramid? Chamale fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 04:09
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Sooooo... Good game\Bad game?
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Sep 14, 2021 05:03
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