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wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Drone rigging is a case where the barrier to entry is mostly financial, not skill. Pretty much any decker or techno can pick up an RCC and set up a drone swarm of cheap models - if they can afford it.

Direct rigging of a vehicle or a single high-quality drone is something else, that takes a control rig to "jump in" and the skills of a pilot.

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bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



JustJeff88 posted:

In later D&D, by which I mean 3e and beyond, I wanted to play a bard because I liked how they could do a bit of everything. Didn't work out that way, though.

Although in 5e they really are close to being the best at everything, thanks to their class feature of nabbing spells from other classes and adding them to their list while also being just as good at non-combat as rogues.

In the tabletop space in general though there has been some attempts at trying to make hybrids work better in similar games. The most successful approach has been the 'class feat' model where you get a signature ability of another class/type, potentially at a slightly weaker level but otherwise keep your normal progression. For example, being able to go into a berserker rage once per day (instead of as often as a regular one), but otherwise still being a full ranger or whatever.

kw0134
Apr 19, 2003

I buy feet pics🍆

JustJeff88 posted:

In later D&D, by which I mean 3e and beyond, I wanted to play a bard because I liked how they could do a bit of everything. Didn't work out that way, though.

I didn't start playing one end-game until some years in, so that may be it. Also, the player has to get a lot of gear that's specifically tailored towards 1 of the 3/4 major roles that a character can play, so it's not a simple matter of just pressing buttons.
What WoW eventually figured out, is that in practice everyone specializes. No one goes from straight damage dealer to tank to healer while in the heat of things, so letting a particular class do all those things doesn't obsolete other classes if you effectively need to pour all your prepping/gearing into doing that one thing. So it's not longer a "hybrid" that swaps roles in combat, but one that could in theory swap around to help the group stay flexible between encounters.

It also helps that as it's not a straight RPG but an action game with actual learned skillsets you need to master to perform your role; you can push the buttons to heal, but that doesn't give you the same reflexes needed to tank a big boss, versus in a PnP RPG where you can sit down and go "okay, my character uses [skill]" after consulting your character sheet and arguing with the GM that this does let him do some wacky plan. Or a jRPG or something where your skills are pulled off a menu that suspiciously looks the same whether you're a big bruiser or a tiny mage.

paragon1
Nov 22, 2010

FULL COMMUNISM NOW

KataraniSword posted:

I feel like the best time to start diversifying is well after you've made a name for yourself, though. Make sure you're great to passable in your main pursuit, and THEN branch off, unless it's esoteric stuff that wouldn't fit in any standard build (Biotech in this game engine comes to mind).

Make sure your decker can actually deck worth a drat before investing in drone control for side-rigging, that sort of thing. In the case of a mystic adept you'd probably start as a plain mage and then branch into adept arts later for a bit of physical resilience.

Yes, that's what I meant when I said "late in the campaign". Successful Mystic adepts usually make it by starting with a fairly specific (usually totally busted) combo of adept and spellcasting in mind, and then add more gimmicks as they progress. So, ironically, this magic generalist archetype often starts out even more narrowly specialized for something.

paragon1 fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Sep 22, 2021

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.
By Burning Crusade both Paladins and Druids could tank or heal (depending on their kit and spec) and Druids could kind of act as damage dealers. But as kw said, it's not something you could switch between during a fight. Between fights, sure, you could tank one boss and then switch into healing gear to be a secondary healer for the next one.

DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

I seem to remember the devs handwaving Jake Armitage by saying Dog 'really' wanted poo poo done so he let him be a hideous munchkin. Then took it back once the job was over/Jake annoyed him

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

DeathChicken posted:

I seem to remember the devs handwaving Jake Armitage by saying Dog 'really' wanted poo poo done so he let him be a hideous munchkin. Then took it back once the job was over/Jake annoyed him
Dog's all about loyalty, and Jake has since proven to be loyal to neither his totem nor anyone else.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


He was loyal to his habit of sleeping in morgue closets. That's it.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

bewilderment posted:

Although in 5e they really are close to being the best at everything, thanks to their class feature of nabbing spells from other classes and adding them to their list while also being just as good at non-combat as rogues.

In the tabletop space in general though there has been some attempts at trying to make hybrids work better in similar games. The most successful approach has been the 'class feat' model where you get a signature ability of another class/type, potentially at a slightly weaker level but otherwise keep your normal progression. For example, being able to go into a berserker rage once per day (instead of as often as a regular one), but otherwise still being a full ranger or whatever.

I thought about 5e right after I posted. Lore bards are apparently quite wonderful.

kw0134 posted:

What WoW eventually figured out, is that in practice everyone specializes. No one goes from straight damage dealer to tank to healer while in the heat of things, so letting a particular class do all those things doesn't obsolete other classes if you effectively need to pour all your prepping/gearing into doing that one thing. So it's not longer a "hybrid" that swaps roles in combat, but one that could in theory swap around to help the group stay flexible between encounters.

habeasdorkus posted:

By Burning Crusade both Paladins and Druids could tank or heal (depending on their kit and spec) and Druids could kind of act as damage dealers. But as kw said, it's not something you could switch between during a fight. Between fights, sure, you could tank one boss and then switch into healing gear to be a secondary healer for the next one.

These are good points. If a healer druid could suddenly switch into tank mode mid-fight after the original tank went down and be just a good a tank as healer, that would be too powerful and make other classes obsolete or pointless. I played a healer/tank druid during the 'dual-spec' days of Wrath of the Lich King, and I was always one or the other on any given raid night, rarely both and never both in the same attempt at a boss. I've never cared for pure DPS classes except for solo open-world play where it's fun and dynamic. Being a DPS class in a raid is pressing the same few buttons ad infinitum for hours and very dull, in my opinion.

TitanG
May 10, 2015

Most non-faceroll builds were about as much about spinning plates as a decent healer, especially affli locks and the like. At some point in Wrath you had like 6 DoT timers running without filler casts, minor support crap and burn phases.

HerStuddMuffin
Aug 10, 2014

YOSPOS
I have never been so happy not understanding what someone was talking about. Raiding in WoW sounds like working an office job.

George Rouncewell
Jul 20, 2007

You think that's illegal? Heh, watch this.

Hwurmp posted:

let backer OCs stay in the trashbin where they belong
you shut your mouf i love every single one of those massive nerdlingers

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

Again, my main problem with Backer OCs is apparently that most of their respective backers just sent HBS a picture of themselves in a suit and/or fedora and told them "Make him look EXACTLY like this".

StillFullyTerrible
Feb 16, 2020

you should have left Let's Play open for public view, Lowtax
that's why they're great tbh. not every shadowrunner is gonna look like a cool badass. some people just look frumpy and doughy, even if they live a hard life of crime on the edge of society

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

StillFullyTerrible posted:

that's why they're great tbh. not every shadowrunner is gonna look like a cool badass. some people just look frumpy and doughy, even if they live a hard life of crime on the edge of society

But at least they’d have some cyberware or tattoos or something.

In fact, I’m pretty sure some of them had to have been persuaded to have their suits light up or something.

DoctorTristan
Mar 11, 2006

I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?
On the flip side, I was really disappointed to hear that Luca Duerr from Dragonfall apparently isn’t a backer character, because I hate that portrait so very, very much.



Sorry, but that is not a rising star of the illuminati, that is a loving web developer and active /r/incel poster.

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.

If every shadowrunner looks cool, then security will be on the lookout for anyone who looks cool, which means eventually the cycle will reach a point where the best look for shadowrunners is as lame, lumpy and overall doofy as possible, to avoid suspicion.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

DoctorTristan posted:

On the flip side, I was really disappointed to hear that Luca Duerr from Dragonfall apparently isn’t a backer character, because I hate that portrait so very, very much.



Sorry, but that is not a rising star of the illuminati, that is a loving web developer and active /r/incel poster.

I don’t recall if it was in the previous thread or some other forum that someone perfectly summed it up by saying “everyone reading this either knows or is someone who looks like this”.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Luca isn't even a real player, he's a low level footman for the Black Lodge. He might not even be awakened.

paragon1
Nov 22, 2010

FULL COMMUNISM NOW
If he's not awakened, then all his games to advance are even sadder since the rules for actual Black Lodge membership start at "Awakened Metahumans Only, No Elves".

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Yeah, my impression of the dude was that he was just a low level Grunt dealing with people outside the organization the important people would never talk to, but he thinks he's a colossal badass member of the magic illuminati.

Although a lot of the read might have come from the portrait

resurgam40
Jul 22, 2007

Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?
He absolutely looks like someone who would think that, yes.

Anyway, um, I don't have any real opinion on the museum crew, except that the logic behind the voting is a thing I like.

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.

HerStuddMuffin posted:

I have never been so happy not understanding what someone was talking about. Raiding in WoW sounds like working an office job.

Honestly, I enjoyed it a lot. Doing something, and doing it very well is fun.

E: Luca's portrait is literally perfect. One glance lets the player know EXACTLY what type of dipstick they're dealing with.

habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Sep 23, 2021

Fighting Trousers
May 17, 2011

Does this excite you, girl?
The greatest failure of Dragonfall was that you never got the chance to belt Duerr across his smarmy mouth.

GhostStalker
Mar 26, 2010

Guys, find a woman who looks at you the way GhostStalker looks at every bald, obese, single 58 year old accountant from Tulsa who managed to win $4,000 by not wagering on a Final Jeopardy triple stumper.

Fighting Trousers posted:

The greatest failure of Dragonfall was that you never got the chance to belt Duerr across his smarmy mouth.

:yeah:

Rogue AI Goddess
May 10, 2012

I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.
That was a joke... unless..?
The only way Luca Duerr could be made better if they got Beckett's voice actor from VtM: Bloodlines to voice his lines.

DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

I learned recently that guy was also Saddler in Resident Evil 4, now I can't unhear it

dervival
Apr 23, 2014

Fighting Trousers posted:

The greatest failure of Dragonfall was that you never got the chance to belt Duerr across his smarmy mouth.
:agreed:

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.

DeathChicken posted:

I learned recently that guy was also Saddler in Resident Evil 4, now I can't unhear it

Writhe in my cage of torment, friend!

Kanfy
Jan 9, 2012

Just gotta keep walking down that road.
Figuring out and writing about Gaichu's skills has taken forever so this is not an update yet, but I wanted to mention that the previous update was missing a fairly crucial line of dialogue which y'know, explains the actual main goal of the run we're about to embark on. I'd like to claim this was simply a test to see if anyone actually reads the updates as Drake mentions "the two texts" he wants us to bring back yet at no point was it mentioned what texts he was even referring to, but in reality I just plain failed to include it by accident. My bad!

Anyway, this is the missing line and it's in the update now as well:

quote:

Liu must have found my dataline tap, though - I stopped receiving any information three days ago. The last thing I heard him talking about were a pair of ancient texts that workers had discovered. Then he issued an order that further excavation should be halted until he can secure the subterranean areas. I'm betting those texts are the cause of whatever's killing the workers.

GhostStalker
Mar 26, 2010

Guys, find a woman who looks at you the way GhostStalker looks at every bald, obese, single 58 year old accountant from Tulsa who managed to win $4,000 by not wagering on a Final Jeopardy triple stumper.

Kanfy posted:

Figuring out and writing about Gaichu's skills has taken forever so this is not an update yet, but I wanted to mention that the previous update was missing a fairly crucial line of dialogue which y'know, explains the actual main goal of the run we're about to embark on. I'd like to claim this was simply a test to see if anyone actually reads the updates as Drake mentions "the two texts" he wants us to bring back yet at no point was it mentioned what texts he was even referring to, but in reality I just plain failed to include it by accident. My bad!

Anyway, this is the missing line and it's in the update now as well:

I thought something was missing, but I chalked it up to my eyes sliding off of the dialogue’s mention of the two texts as our retrieval goals and my brain just filling in something I remembered from when I played this run myself.

I also remember the gimmick of this particular run being a lot of fun.

DoctorTristan
Mar 11, 2006

I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?

GhostStalker posted:

I thought something was missing, but I chalked it up to my eyes sliding off of the dialogue’s mention of the two texts as our retrieval goals and my brain just filling in something I remembered from when I played this run myself.

I also remember the gimmick of this particular run being a lot of fun.

Nearly all of the runs in Shadowrun HK have have some sort of fun gimmick, it’s one of the reasons it’s my favourite of the series.

achtungnight
Oct 5, 2014
I get my fun here. Enjoy!
I read the updates, but this little detail must have slipped by me. Glad you caught it.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012

All SRR games are coming to Switch!

I dont know
Aug 9, 2003

That Guy here...

habeasdorkus posted:

E: Luca's portrait is literally perfect. One glance lets the player know EXACTLY what type of dipstick they're dealing with.

Yup, smarmy piece of poo poo puffed up with their own (nonexistent) importance. I think it is hilarious that he simultaneously looks and acts exactly like you would expect from a backer character. Just like this wanker.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

GhostStalker posted:

I thought something was missing, but I chalked it up to my eyes sliding off of the dialogue’s mention of the two texts as our retrieval goals and my brain just filling in something I remembered from when I played this run myself.

I also remember the gimmick of this particular run being a lot of fun.

Yeah, I remember the run mechanics for this one a lot more than the plot of it. It's kind of funny how despite Hong Kong having the reputation as the wordy one not the dungeon one, it's got a bunch of really cool runs in it.

AceOfFlames posted:

All SRR games are coming to Switch!

Nice

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
I'm dubious as to whether the Switch's controls lend themselves to this sort of game.

Space Kablooey
May 6, 2009


Why wouldn't they? It's a grid-based turn-based tactics system - which have been done to death in home consoles and portables - and as such the pointing interface doesn't need to be precise, and you have all the time in the world to make your decisions. Plus the Switch has touchscreens when undocked which would help on menus and dialogue choices.

Space Kablooey fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Sep 25, 2021

Daduzi
Nov 22, 2005

You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun.

JustJeff88 posted:

I'm dubious as to whether the Switch's controls lend themselves to this sort of game.

They worked absolutely fine for X-Com

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Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

HerStuddMuffin posted:

I have never been so happy not understanding what someone was talking about. Raiding in WoW sounds like working an office job.

No, no, playing EVE is like working an office job. Raiding in WoW is like working at an overloading nuclear power plant except the meltdown is from your own party members.

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