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hyphz posted:It can be a shot in the gut when a system fails. Like, I thought PF2e was going to be our go-to, but it turns out to have big table time problems. Like what? Someone in one of my D&D Discords bought a big Pathfinder bundle and was excited to play it. (He also got Starfinder, which seems interesting since I'm kind of burned out on fantasy stuff atm)
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Sep 24, 2021 16:34
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change my name posted:Like what? Someone in one of my D&D Discords bought a big Pathfinder bundle and was excited to play it.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:36
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Splicer posted:There's way better space games out there than starfinder. Out of curiosity, what ones do you really like? The ones I've any familiarity with are all pretty much hacks of non space games and to my mind kind of lack an independent identity (e.g. Transit is very AW derived, Scum & Villiany is very BITD, and LANCER has its relationship with DND).
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Sep 24, 2021 16:44
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Starfinder is also bad, I'm afraid. Both it and PF2e seem very afraid of allowing characters to do something interesting every turn. Rolling basic attacks is a failure of game design.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:44
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Tulip posted:Out of curiosity, what ones do you really like? The ones I've any familiarity with are all pretty much hacks of non space games and to my mind kind of lack an independent identity (e.g. Transit is very AW derived, Scum & Villiany is very BITD, and LANCER has its relationship with DND).
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Sep 24, 2021 16:46
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Tulip posted:Out of curiosity, what ones do you really like? The ones I've any familiarity with are all pretty much hacks of non space games and to my mind kind of lack an independent identity (e.g. Transit is very AW derived, Scum & Villiany is very BITD, and LANCER has its relationship with DND). e: I hear the new aliens rpg is good. There's an expanse RPG I recall being interested in but I'm still working my way through the actual series. And I've always wanted to play eclipse phase. Splicer fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 16:53
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Tulip posted:Out of curiosity, what ones do you really like? The ones I've any familiarity with are all pretty much hacks of non space games and to my mind kind of lack an independent identity (e.g. Transit is very AW derived, Scum & Villiany is very BITD, and LANCER has its relationship with DND). Fragged Empire is operating in the same general kind of design space as D&D while having less rules overhead and a better (though not perfect) silo-ing of narrative from combat power. The actual titular / first game in the franchise is a little messy -- it was the creator's first game -- but he's steadily improved with each subsequent release and FE has a second edition coming out soon.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:53
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Tulip posted:Out of curiosity, what ones do you really like? The ones I've any familiarity with are all pretty much hacks of non space games and to my mind kind of lack an independent identity (e.g. Transit is very AW derived, Scum & Villiany is very BITD, and LANCER has its relationship with DND). I'm fine with Lancer being close to D&D. After this long campaign wraps up, I think I want to run a Jupiter Ascending-inspired Lancer campaign and getting my group to buy into a new system won't be as hard if it's already similar to what we've been using for the last 4 years
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Sep 24, 2021 16:54
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:FE has a second edition coming out soon. I played Traveller once but there were non-system based problems.
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Sep 24, 2021 16:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Fragged Empire is operating in the same general kind of design space as D&D while having less rules overhead and a better (though not perfect) silo-ing of narrative from combat power. The actual titular / first game in the franchise is a little messy -- it was the creator's first game -- but he's steadily improved with each subsequent release and FE has a second edition coming out soon. Does it feel like Fragged Empire has some 4E in its DNA or is that just me?
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Sep 24, 2021 16:59
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Dawgstar posted:Does it feel like Fragged Empire has some 4E in its DNA or is that just me? Not very much, honestly? Far less than LANCER, for sure. It has loosely defined "roles" in combat that you can build towards but is classless; combat revolves less around distinct powers and more around positioning yourself to take advantage of conditional riders or (in later Fragged games) builder / spender mechanics. "Tabletop X-Com" is probably a pretty good analogy. Less lethal than X-Com to account for the fact that you only have one character each, but still. e: They're similar in the sense that they're tactical combat TTRPGs with cleanly templated rules but in a better world that wouldn't be so extraordinary and the resemblance would stand out less than the differences. 
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 17:01
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:They're similar in the sense that they're tactical combat TTRPGs with cleanly templated rules but in a better world that wouldn't be so extraordinary and the resemblance would stand out less than the differences.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:08
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Tulip posted:Out of curiosity, what ones do you really like? The ones I've any familiarity with are all pretty much hacks of non space games and to my mind kind of lack an independent identity (e.g. Transit is very AW derived, Scum & Villiany is very BITD, and LANCER has its relationship with DND). stars without number op.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:09
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Fragged Empire is operating in the same general kind of design space as D&D while having less rules overhead and a better (though not perfect) silo-ing of narrative from combat power. The actual titular / first game in the franchise is a little messy -- it was the creator's first game -- but he's steadily improved with each subsequent release and FE has a second edition coming out soon. The one thing to look out for, maybe, is that Fragged Empire's creator insists on using this narrow sans serif font at a small size in all his products and many people, including me, find it a pain to read. Judge for yourself if this works for you.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:14
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i mean on the one hand that's a legitimate complaint in the abstract, but on the other hand that image is super zoomed-out and low quality and not representative of what it's like in print or pdf at all
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Sep 24, 2021 17:18
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The image is not super hirez but if you zoom in the browser to represent what the page will look like at reading distance, you can get the general idea about the size and look of the typeface. Here's a recent discussion of FE2e which mentions this issue repeatedly. Like, it's not just me.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:45
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Hoping Fragged Empire comes back into print at some point. All the spin-offs requiring the core are easily available, but not the core.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:56
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Gort posted:Starfinder is also bad, I'm afraid. Both it and PF2e seem very afraid of allowing characters to do something interesting every turn. Rolling basic attacks is a failure of game design. I don’t understand this sentiment. Rolling basic attacks is a failure? What? Do you object to people rolling “basic” moves in a PbtA game? What about a basic attempt to open a door? Is it only good if you get to use some special ability in place of a “basic” attack - and does that apply if it’s an at-will power in 4e D&D or a cantrip in 3e or 5e?
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Sep 24, 2021 18:22
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:y'all are interpreting my post like i was saying "they're exactly the same" and then explaining why Unknown Armies is better UA is a great thought experiment, but an awful game. My life in the real world is trash, why do I need to gamify it? Splicer posted:There's way better space games out there than starfinder. Tulip posted:Out of curiosity, what ones do you really like? The ones I've any familiarity with are all pretty much hacks of non space games and to my mind kind of lack an independent identity (e.g. Transit is very AW derived, Scum & Villiany is very BITD, and LANCER has its relationship with DND). Mothership... 
Humbug Scoolbus fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 18:32
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:UA is a great thought experiment, but an awful game. My life in the real world is trash, why do I need to gamify it?
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Sep 24, 2021 18:44
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That font is perfectly legible. It is, however, incredibly ugly.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:44
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:UA is a great thought experiment, but an awful game. My life in the real world is trash, why do I need to gamify it?
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Sep 24, 2021 18:48
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change my name posted:Like what? Someone in one of my D&D Discords bought a big Pathfinder bundle and was excited to play it. Thing is, it's by far the best of the d20 systems. It doesn't have the general meh-ness of D&D 5e, the ludicrous spiral of Pathfinder 1st, or the wonky monster math and trap options of D&D 4e. It's familiar enough that people will try it and it's got a lot of things that tactical players like. There's two big problems. First is an old saw, far too many decisions are moved to charactar generation time. There's tons of feat choices but when it comes to actually play, most of the time you are just trying to do the thing that synergises all your feat choices. Second, is that the Fighter is too powerful. Yea, it's a surprise to have a d20 system in which caster supremacy is actively reversed but there it is, and it's not exactly like that anyway, because the Fighter also dominates all the other martials because they suffer badly from the status dead problem. A Swashbuckler can stack a load of funky stunt modifiers against an enemy but in the time and risk they've taken to do that the Fighter has killed theirs. I wouldn't mind too much the fighters being powerful if it wasn't for the fact that it becomes a table engagement issue. PF2e gives all characters three actions on their turn of any type, but most spells take two actions to cast. What that means is that while the Fighter player is rolling scads of dice for three attacks (or even four when they get a later Feat that gives them one) the casters typically cast one spell and then move or pass. Because their damage is very weak, they're encouraged to buff others, which is good tactics but boring at the table - "My turn. You're buffed now. I raise shield. Done." Sadly I'm snapping because Paizo recently released a "martial arts tournament" themed adventure which seemed like a great opportunity to experiment with twists and turns in the combat system, but the first part doesn't do any of that and is a generic hexcrawl that's so badly integrated with the theme it actually breaks if the PCs approach it as a tournament event.
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Sep 24, 2021 19:04
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Splicer posted:There's way better space games out there than starfinder. Starfinder's also really weird in terms of genre niche because it's less a game about playing out specific sci fi genres, properties or stories and more "D&D...But SPACE!".
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Sep 24, 2021 19:06
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 Four different small team, rules heavy RPGs, for legibility comparison. (Clockwise from upper left: SWN, Lancer, SotDL, Fragged Empire). I'm pumped for a second edition, but it's ease-of-reading is a not insignificant barrier for me to overcome.
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Sep 24, 2021 19:22
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Wow that's actually striking. And the direct comparison really drives home the faults, too. SWN: dense and impenetrable in both layout and content Lancer: adequate but bare-bones and almost amateurish, inconsistent spacing in headings, attempt to mark important keywords but using both bolding and small caps muddles it SotDL: professional layout, information well structured, good use of colour in headings and subheadings and font weight in marking important terms, best one Fragged Empire: lol that font and low contrast
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Sep 24, 2021 19:32
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How has 13th Age held up? After Lancer concludes, it seems like a good game to get my group all on the same page...
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Sep 24, 2021 19:39
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:UA is a great thought experiment, but an awful game. My life in the real world is trash, why do I need to gamify it? *looks over at the hardcover copies of Glitch and Promethean on my shelf* oh yeah, uh, that would be terrible. i would never want a game to do that Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 19:43
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KingKalamari posted:Starfinder's also really weird in terms of genre niche because it's less a game about playing out specific sci fi genres, properties or stories and more "D&D...But SPACE!". Perfect for if you're tired of fantasy but not willing to walk further away from it than "fantasy but the swords are all neon."
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Sep 24, 2021 20:14
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The Alien RPG from Free League Publishing is great and they also have their own sci-fi book that uses the same system, Coriolis.
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Sep 24, 2021 20:20
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Antivehicular posted:Holy balls, that initiative system is loving garbage. Definitely a system-killer for sure. I'm going to suggest Goblinville. You play broke goblins trying to hit it rich. As you play along, you develop the town. It's old school dungeon crawling complete with a marching order, counting torches and rations, and making tools in camp. It's rules light, the whole game with a starter adventure fits in a 32 page zine. It's a dice pool system, with a lot of improv and free form options to add dice. The art is super charming. There's a second zine with a few rules, some guidelines, and adventures. I did a review, https://writeups.letsyouandhimfight.com/mllaneza/goblinville-gazette-1/
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Sep 24, 2021 22:13
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Admiral Joeslop posted:The Alien RPG from Free League Publishing is great and they also have their own sci-fi book that uses the same system, Coriolis. It is really good.
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Sep 24, 2021 22:14
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dwarf74 posted:How has 13th Age held up? I'm either running it or Heart in October so might have an update on whether 13th Age is still a decent game or just had 2 or 3 really cool ideas to work into more modern stuff.
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Sep 24, 2021 22:38
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dwarf74 posted:How has 13th Age held up? A thread specifically for you: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/with-some-perspective-what-are-peoples-thoughts-on-13th-age.880519/
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Sep 24, 2021 22:51
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Has anyone tried Unknown Worlds? I've read the rules and it seems kinda narratively "loose," even by PbtA standards. Just wondering how it works in practice.
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Sep 24, 2021 23:42
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Tulip posted:Out of curiosity, what ones do you really like? The ones I've any familiarity with are all pretty much hacks of non space games and to my mind kind of lack an independent identity (e.g. Transit is very AW derived, Scum & Villiany is very BITD, and LANCER has its relationship with DND). Lancer has only the loosest of connections to D&D, with those being mostly taking inspiration from how 4e handled it's more tactical combat rather than directly borrowing anything mechanical(in that regard it borrows most heavily from Shadow of The Demon Lord)
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Sep 25, 2021 00:20
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Megazver posted:A thread specifically for you:
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Sep 25, 2021 00:39
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Arivia posted:I don’t understand this sentiment. Rolling basic attacks is a failure? What? Do you object to people rolling “basic” moves in a PbtA game? What about a basic attempt to open a door? Is it only good if you get to use some special ability in place of a “basic” attack - and does that apply if it’s an at-will power in 4e D&D or a cantrip in 3e or 5e? Yes, rolling basic attacks is a failure. It takes up time without making a meaningful choice other than to keep the combat going and you're all going to make a lot of them in every session. All you do is decide who to attack - and then roll (multiple stages) to find out what happened. The amount either of roleplaying or tactical depth added to the game for the sheer time spent rolling basic attacks to whittle away at an enemy health pool is negligible; all you are doing is filling time. To put them into context:
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Sep 25, 2021 00:55
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As a quick clarification, having things like rolling to hit or ability scores isn't viewed as inherently a flawed by too many people outside of our subculture here. Like it's valid to not like that style or games with a pass fail binary, but it's not the truism conversations here make it seem like. Just because that's what Arivia seemed more questioning not a basic attack vs a move. And it's also worth noting even during 4e there were a lot of people here questioning to hit rolls, especially on limited use stuff like dailies and once per encounter moves. On the topic of Starfinder, wasnt it also a massive step backwards? Like it was closer in framework to Pf 1e than 2nd because of parallel development. Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 25, 2021 |
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Sep 25, 2021 01:47
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A couple years back I came across a PDF of this indie RPG and now I'm drawing a blank on the name. Very low-budget feel, almost like a zine - black and white text with creepy black ink drawings. The story involved your party travelling up a flooded valley, through the broken dam and into an observatory (I think), while being trailed by assassins. Anyone know what I'm thinking of?
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Sep 25, 2021 01:50
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