|
ymgve posted:Can anyone explain why the emperor made the painter dude go splat when the Empire has guns precise enough to sever your spine but still keep you alive? I'd assume those same guns could kill him just as well without making that mess. Emperors gonna emp. sure okay posted:Thanks. I kind of assumed this, but it still seems like pretty heavy lampshading of some game changing tech. It's hard to say where things lie in the timeline of the show, but in the books in the "present", outer kingdoms still have hyperspace tech, but neither know how it works or can fix it/build more. They worry constantly about losing or damaging their spaceships, as they can't replicate FTL in a lost ship. They can barely make spaceships without FTL as it is, and as the books go on they even start to lose that tech, becoming more and more planetbound. Bloody Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Sep 28, 2021 |
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 03:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 11:01 |
|
|
The first episode is incredible. The visuals alone make it worth watching, as it’s so rare to get imaginative scifi that is this well done.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 03:54
|
|
|
I have no idea what rhythms this is gonna level out into, but it's very cool so far. I know it's gonna end up being another Da Vinci's Demons / Krypton style show though, thr Elliot Cowan casting basically confirms it. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Sep 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 04:51
|
|
|
ymgve posted:Can anyone explain why the emperor made the painter dude go splat when the Empire has guns precise enough to sever your spine but still keep you alive? I'd assume those same guns could kill him just as well without making that mess. I'm guessing to make his death quick and painless. It seemed like he respected the dude, but still felt he needed to die, so he was vaporized. Also, during that scene with the old dude on the ladder. I kept thinking he was going to fall and die or something. I'm assuming that the system works such that there are always 3 alive at any time. So if one dies, they spin up a new clone and everyone is shuffled around. In that scenario, Lee Pace would get shifted up to brother dusk, and dawn would get moved to day and then they create a new clone. Maybe that's an interesting dynamic they are foreshadowing. Or maybe they only make a new clone every certain number of years. Who knows. Cojawfee fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Sep 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 05:27
|
|
|
EVERY SCIENCE FICTION SHOW MUST HAVE A 9/11 IT IS THE LAW "The attacks changed everything" OH MY GOD
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 06:44
|
|
|
I remember almost nothing from the books when I read then about 30 years ago. Names are familiar but not exactly plot elements. A lot of what's in the trailer was in those first 2 episodes, so what's in the later ones will be a surprised. I kinda feel like they're going to move the Mule up in the timeline because he's mentioned in the opening narration. Having the collapse be due to a big bad villain does kind of undermine what Foundation was about. Though its more standard story telling structure.Much more interesting when it's simply an inevitable occurrence. Are people just speculating that the prime minister robot lady is Daneel because she's the only robot that we've seen so far? Or did she do something that suggests that its more than simply that Also i'm pretty sure that's the first time i've seen Lee Pace without some kind of makeup.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 07:00
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Are people just speculating that the prime minister robot lady is Daneel because she's the only robot that we've seen so far? Or did she do something that suggests that its more than simply that Well, at this point in the empire, there are pretty much only 2 humaniform robots left in the galaxy, R. Daneel Olivaw and R. Giskard Reventlov. I'm not sure of the timeline here, but Giskard is already dead I believe. The most important point though, the characters name on the show, Eto Demerzel, and her role as majordomo to the emperors, is exactly what Daneel was doing at this point in history in the books.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 07:30
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:A lot of what's in the trailer was in those first 2 episodes, so what's in the later ones will be a surprised. I kinda feel like they're going to move the Mule up in the timeline because he's mentioned in the opening narration. Gaal might be floating around as an icicle in space for a looong time, as you say she narrates from a postion of knowing about the Mule even. Threadkiller Dog fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Sep 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 08:56
|
|
|
sure okay posted:As an example, I can easily assume those 2 warring planets used some FTL to arrive for their diplomatic talks. Makes sense that the Empire lets them do that, sure. But then, doesn't that mean the Empire contracts that tech out to them for other stuff? Also, doesn't that imply that Day can easily take that tech away from any planet in order to effectively quarantine them from the rest of the Empire for as long or as little as he likes? Seems like a more reasonable plan of retaliation over, say, genocide of innocents.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 09:25
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I kinda feel like they're going to move the Mule up in the timeline because he's mentioned in the opening narration. Having the collapse be due to a big bad villain does kind of undermine what Foundation was about. Though its more standard story telling structure.Much more interesting when it's simply an inevitable occurrence. This just makes me think the Mule is going to be who sent the bombers, and that makes me really sad. I really hope they don't go down that route.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 10:27
|
|
Glimpse posted:It’s a digression from the books, but in this version the imperial government has a monopoly on faster than light ships, David S Goyer said so in a podcast. So, No Han Solos. The weird thing is they apparently have both slow and fast FTL travel. The distance to Terminus was stated to be several hundred light-years, but the trip still only takes a few years by "slow ship".
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 10:58
|
|
|
SimonChris posted:The weird thing is they apparently have both slow and fast FTL travel. The distance to Terminus was stated to be several hundred light-years, but the trip still only takes a few years by "slow ship". This confused me a lot, they had him say it was 50 thousand light years away but then she did some maths in her head and got 800 something days travel time. Feel like it might have been better to just not say anything specific?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 11:22
|
|
|
Bloody Hedgehog posted:Well, at this point in the empire, there are pretty much only 2 humaniform robots left in the galaxy, R. Daneel Olivaw and R. Giskard Reventlov. I'm not sure of the timeline here, but Giskard is already dead I believe. The most important point though, the characters name on the show, Eto Demerzel, and her role as majordomo to the emperors, is exactly what Daneel was doing at this point in history in the books. That was a spoiler related to the books as is this The main argument of that being R Daneel is the fact they were able to witness the embassy personnel being hanged without melting down demonstrating the 0th law in effect. As R Daneel is the only robot in existence that was ever flexible enough in thought to not go catatonic applying the 0th law. R Giskard put himself into stasis millennia before Foundation takes place because he could not think abstractly enough in regards to allowing earth to destroy itself (needing application of the 0th law), even though he was first to conceptualize both the 0th law and psychohistiory. Before he basically put himself into stasis, he gifted R Daneel with his mind reading abilities and the concepts of psychohistory and the 0th law trusting him to steward humanity to the future.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 12:30
|
|
|
SimonChris posted:The weird thing is they apparently have both slow and fast FTL travel. The distance to Terminus was stated to be several hundred light-years, but the trip still only takes a few years by "slow ship". That's what I thought when I saw the ep, but the showrunner says the ship is going something like half the speed of light in their podcast. Either the writers don't get distances in space (likely) or they got a ride to the neighbourhood and the ship just has to cover the last 2.5 light years. Turra posted:This confused me a lot, they had him say it was 50 thousand light years away but then she did some maths in her head and got 800 something days travel time. Feel like it might have been better to just not say anything specific? Yeah. Anacreon and Thespis are Terminus's closest neighbours. Did Hari engineer the terrorist attack to weaken them so the Foundation would have a chance to grow? (None of this is in the books)
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 13:28
|
|
|
Glimpse posted:Anacreon and Thespis are Terminus's closest neighbours. Did Hari engineer the terrorist attack to weaken them so the Foundation would have a chance to grow? (None of this is in the books)
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 13:31
|
|
|
JazzFlight posted:Why are goons saying that Hari caused the attack? If it's revealed in the books, please stop casually spoiling stuff that isn't spelled out in the show! It’s not in the books. I said that it’s not in the books. There is no terrorist attack on the space elevator in the books, there is no space elevator in the books. And there is no heavy handed response to the thing that’s not in the books in the books. This is wild speculation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 13:38
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:EVERY SCIENCE FICTION SHOW MUST HAVE A 9/11 Back in 2001, there were people claiming that Al-Qaeda was actually inspired by Foundation: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/aug/24/alqaida.sciencefictionfantasyandhorror So if anything 9/11 is copying Foundation and the show is bringing it back to the source! twistedmentat posted:Are people just speculating that the prime minister robot lady is Daneel because she's the only robot that we've seen so far? Or did she do something that suggests that its more than simply that Prequel spoilers, but in the books her character is actually Daneel under an assumed name (though in the books the character is a male)
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 14:39
|
|
|
is it a spoiler if i missed it in the show because i was looking at my phone??? Glimpse posted:It’s not in the books. I said that it’s not in the books. There is no terrorist attack on the space elevator in the books, there is no space elevator in the books. And there is no heavy handed response to the thing that’s not in the books in the books. This is wild speculation. I'm pretty sure that space elevators, and many other concepts, were still decades away from conception when the source material was produced.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 14:44
|
|
|
Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I'm pretty sure that space elevators, and many other concepts, were still decades away from conception when the source material was produced. The idea of the space elevator as a theoretical concept is actually from the 19th century! I may be completely misremembering this as it's been a while since I've read it, but doesn't the novel open with Gaal riding the space elevator down to Trantor?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 14:48
|
|
|
My recollection is that it opens in a hotel room. Maybe the tallest building on Trantor? I remember being unimpressed by the height at the time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 15:01
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:I may be completely misremembering this as it's been a while since I've read it, but doesn't the novel open with Gaal riding the space elevator down to Trantor? They land in a space ship. After landing, Gaal takes an elevator up to the surface to see the real sky. By using a space elevator they can get some exposition and world building out of the way early.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
Bloody Hedgehog posted:Well, at this point in the empire, there are pretty much only 2 humaniform robots left in the galaxy, R. Daneel Olivaw and R. Giskard Reventlov. I'm not sure of the timeline here, but Giskard is already dead I believe. The most important point though, the characters name on the show, Eto Demerzel, and her role as majordomo to the emperors, is exactly what Daneel was doing at this point in history in the books. Ah okay, so yea that is speculation made on outside evidence. I can dig it. Threadkiller Dog posted:Gaal might be floating around as an icicle in space for a looong time, as you say she narrates from a postion of knowing about the Mule even. Ah I assumed that she was 35 years in the future when giving the opening narration. I was thinking about the Imperial Family isn't really clones, like they are cloned from the same person, but its clear that their behavior and knowlage is learned. This means that each Imperial will be different, so eventually they were going to get one who is bad at their job and cause poo poo to spiral out of control.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 16:54
|
|
|
Smithersnz posted:This just makes me think the Mule is going to be who sent the bombers, and that makes me really sad. I really hope they don't go down that route. drat, that's a good prediction, and one that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. TV writers gonna write TV. SimonChris posted:The weird thing is they apparently have both slow and fast FTL travel. The distance to Terminus was stated to be several hundred light-years, but the trip still only takes a few years by "slow ship". The ultimate gently caress-you: "You say the empire will collapse in 500 years? We're gonna send you a couple hundred light years away at 0.9c. Time dilation means it'll take 500 years from our frame of reference, and 3 years for you. If we're still around in 500 years, we'll blow up your ship on arrival for being wrong." JazzFlight posted:Why are goons saying that Hari caused the attack? If it's revealed in the books, please stop casually spoiling stuff that isn't spelled out in the show! If you're going to melt down every day about spoilers and threaten to stop reading the thread, at least read the thread before your meltdown. They explicitly said it's not in the book. twistedmentat posted:I was thinking about the Imperial Family isn't really clones, like they are cloned from the same person, but its clear that their behavior and knowlage is learned. This means that each Imperial will be different, so eventually they were going to get one who is bad at their job and cause poo poo to spiral out of control. They're realistic clones, meaning their genetic makeup is identical to Cleon I, but they started life as babies and had to learn like anyone else, as opposed to goofy clones, where a full-grown man steps out of a vat and says "Hello, I'm Emperor Cleon I, why am I naked and covered in goo? I have an empire to run!" Based on the actions of the current Day emperor, I'd say they already kinda have one who's bad at his job and will cause poo poo to spiral out of control. They seem to be setting up the young one as a more thoughtful, gentler version; it's been a long time since I've read the books, but I seem to remember that the Empire did better and worse over its final centuries depending on the emperor, so he may play a role in it
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 17:02
|
|
|
Pham Nuwen posted:
It looks like Dusk when he was Day was probably afraid to act agressively to squash any issues that may arise, probably in some misguided attempt to preserve and enjoy the peace. As a result, current Day is going way overboard with authoritarian measures and violent retribution which is going to accelerate the collapse. And yea, I'm really worried the Mule is going to end up being a big bad in the shadows that Foundation will eventually uncover and Gaal will have to fight him over a bottomless pit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
I kind of love the Emperor's hand gesture. It's half peace sign, half papal benediction, which suits the setting beautifully.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 17:36
|
|
|
This is good. It's got a lot of potential. I like how they're keeping the story driven by people talking and thinking. There are big spectacular scenes, but they're kind of just for context. Very pretty window dressing for a story that's actually about concepts. I love the sense of technological scale. It's a bit weird that everyone's just humans that far in the future, but in terms of tech, the lovely space barge Seldon gets has a Star Trek holodek, and can move at speeds Voyager would risk turning into a salamander for. And that's the lovely tech. Smithersnz posted:This just makes me think the Mule is going to be who sent the bombers, and that makes me really sad. I really hope they don't go down that route. Like, I don't want to go on about this too much, 'cause I get it's just a fear based on other stories getting mangled, but this show has proven that it totally gets the basic premise of Foundation, and what you fear totally goes against the basic premise. So rest easy. I guess my similar fear is that they won't [vague book spoilers] keep progressing the timeline by huge amounts, showing us progress over time, if they want to keep the same actors for familiarity or whatever. But the emperor can stick around for generations with clones, Seldon as a hologram, and I think they're going to do something weird with Gaal being a timeless observer somehow, considering she knows about the Mule. I bet she's narrating in the far future, and we'll see plenty of time skips even if we keep some characters around 'cause it's a TV show. So I've mostly talked myself out of that, but that's closer to how I see them messing stuff up, rather than something really off the wall like integrating the Mule into the start of the story for some reason. I'm 90% sure he was just mentioned for fanservice basically- "hey, it's that guy you know!" for the book readers, and secondarily as an "oh poo poo this guy's a big deal, he was mentioned in the first episode!" moment when he shows up in like six seasons.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
droll posted:The character that woke up during the FTL jump will never step foot on Terminus. Are you thinking of Salvor? Huh? I thought she was the "Warden" in the opening. That character looked like it might have been supposed to be her 35 years older.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:Huh? I thought she was the "Warden" in the opening. That character looked like it might have been supposed to be her 35 years older. I'm assuming that's her kid, from the harvested embryo she stored on the ship headed for Terminus.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 18:30
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:Huh? I thought she was the "Warden" in the opening. That character looked like it might have been supposed to be her 35 years older. The Warden is Salvor Hardin, the mathematician is Gaal Dornick.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 18:39
|
|
|
Bloody Hedgehog posted:I'm assuming that's her kid, from the harvested embryo she stored on the ship headed for Terminus. My god, The Mule and Salvor Hardin are twins!
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 18:50
|
|
|
ymgve posted:Can anyone explain why the emperor made the painter dude go splat when the Empire has guns precise enough to sever your spine but still keep you alive? I'd assume those same guns could kill him just as well without making that mess. What's the point of having a Science Fiction setting if the Ray Guns don't make people explode? Even if the series ends up being a dud I do admire how it tried to take on a unfilmable source material in which a majority of the original books was character conversations and also something that happens over a massive timespan.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 20:29
|
|
|
They have said before that they would like to tell the story in ~80 episodes, so I don't think there is a risk of things popping up too early, except as fan service like the opening mention of The Mule. They've also said that they have made some conceits to keep characters around for the duration, rather than a revolving door of main characters. Seems easy enough to keep Harris and Pace around given Seldon's role in the books and the clone gimmick for the emperor (wondering if they are going to have Mann always play the oldest clone, or put Pace in makeup), and a few strategic sub-liminal trips to extend Gaal's life seem easy enough.  etalian posted:What's the point of having a Science Fiction setting if the Ray Guns don't make people explode? Also it acts as character/world-building: the emperor is callous and cruel, the empire dispenses harsh and summary justice, and there is a reason everyone cowers on Trantor. They did a lot with one splat of a Dr. Manhattan gun!
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 20:46
|
|
|
What's with the need for stasis during FTL jumps? I didn't get that one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 20:48
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:What's with the need for stasis during FTL jumps? I didn't get that one. They said something about it makes people (literally) lose their minds, but I think I was on my phone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:They said something about it makes people (literally) lose their minds, but I think I was on my phone. No, they said it made people go all event horizon of they saw what it looked like to go ftl. Though why not just make ships with shuttered windows or without windows at all? Though it's neat that the same tech is used both in statis chambers and the black bags they use when arresting people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 21:20
|
|
|
Bloody Hedgehog posted:I'm assuming that's her kid, from the harvested embryo she stored on the ship headed for Terminus. Ah, that would make sense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
The idea of people going crazy from seeing hyperspace reminds me of Larry Niven's Known Space.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 22:22
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:The idea of people going crazy from seeing hyperspace reminds me of Larry Niven's Known Space. Is that the one where everyone's gotta be sedated or keep their eyes closed or something, and anyone who's made the trip awake comes out completely insane on the other end, and then someone's kid accidentally goes through awake and they find out that if you're awake then the trip takes ten thousand years from your perspective, so your mind is just stuck there awake and alone for what feels like a literal eternity. e: oh poo poo, no, Known Space is the Ringworld books! I guess if we're just here listing the ways hyperspace travel can gently caress you up in different sci fi universes, then someone's gotta mention Warhammer 40k where hyperspace is actually filled with demons and dark gods and you can get lost forever or inexplicably show up decades after you left. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 22:58
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:Is that the one where everyone's gotta be sedated or keep their eyes closed or something, and anyone who's made the trip awake comes out completely insane on the other end, and then someone's kid accidentally goes through awake and they find out that if you're awake then the trip takes ten thousand years from your perspective, so your mind is just stuck there awake and alone for what feels like a literal eternity. No, that's "The Jaunt" by Stephen King. I think in Known Space they just paint the outside of the ship.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 23:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 11:01 |
|
|
I have to say I haven't seen such good art design for a sci-fi show since The Expanse. It's both retro and novel, and impeccably done.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2021 23:16
|
|