|
Arglebargle III posted:I have to say I haven't seen such good art design for a sci-fi show since The Expanse. It's both retro and novel, and impeccably done. Lots of art deco design inspiration as well.
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 00:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:57 |
|
|
It's like the brief was to mash up Art Deco and John Barkley 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:The idea of people going crazy from seeing hyperspace reminds me of Larry Niven's Known Space. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
Smithersnz posted:This just makes me think the Mule is going to be who sent the bombers, and that makes me really sad. I really hope they don't go down that route. God, please don't let them do this. I was really on board for the first episode but the second... I mean, theres so much story to get through in the first place, I feel like they're really wasting a lot of time on weird original plot elements, and as it goes those seeds are going to overtake the original story. I mean, it was... neat? maybe? I guess? seeing R Daneel show up, but uh... the context of like robot wars in the past everyone knows about, and Daneel letting everyone know they're a robot seems strange, and I'm not altogether looking forward to what they do with robots. Hopefully its nothing beyond Daneel. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong though and robots were widely known about in the foundation era? I thought I remembered no one really knowing robots were a thing for the most part. If it comes out though the attacks were engineered by the Mule I think i'll be done with the show. I'm not sure theres any coming back from botching the best story in the books THAT badly, I don't even really like they name dropped him right away. I also hope they don't start going on about the second foundation, and foreshadowing problems with the plan/psychohistory, because one of the best parts of the book was how each story lulled the reader and eventually foundation itself into comfort with "poo poo is going sideways, oh wait, the holo message just came on and its literally all going exactly to plan" again and again, only to then get hit with the Mule and all of a sudden the message is wrong and theres a secret second foundation. If they keep things on a knifes edge the whole time with corrections being needed and a second foundation steering things, then when the Mule shows up it will just be... another run of the mill crisis. If they botch that aspect of the story, man what is even the point, some CGI explosions and space ships?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 04:43
|
|
|
I don't think "everyone" knows that they're a robot, or that they're an important robot for that matter. It seemed to me that only Empire knows.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 05:08
|
|
|
You shouldn't worry about them trying to cram in too much into the first season. The first season is only going to cover the first half of the first book with the prequel books filling in the details so they can stretch out the story. If you've read the books, look at the episode titles and you can tell where this season is going to end.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 05:15
|
|
|
droll posted:I don't think "everyone" knows that they're a robot, or that they're an important robot for that matter. It seemed to me that only Empire knows. Maybe, but even then it seems odd for I don't know, maybe I'm just being picky as I brace for the other Goyer shoe to drop. I just want the adaptation to be good, as lord knows its never getting another chance at one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 05:36
|
|
|
My fear over the Mule is that the series will need a villain the gears of history turning does not make compelling television to a lot of people, and we are talking Goyer writing the series so he probably will think there needs to be a personification of the forces opposing the Foundation. Like right now it seems like the Empire is the villain, but he's reacting to the situation, not actively perusing them. He was clearly convinced that there is some merit to letting the Foundation, and sticking them on Terminus far far away seems like a good idea. Clearly whatever force that's behind the bombings knows how to push the Empire's buttons and knows this is a FIRE AND BLOOD kind of guy and he will overract to any threat to his rule. What I am most worried about is the Mule is the interpretation of his powers to manipulate peoples emotions and being the only one shown to actually have the ability to be a single person that disrupts the entire plan. That makes him perfect to be a figure from the shadows pulling the strings. To be a Littlefinger for lack of a better term I really do hope I'm wrong, but I'm just speculating based on my knowlage of how these kinds of shows are written and tend to evolve.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 06:11
|
|
|
I don't how they'd work it out with the timeline and all, but I'm wondering if somehow Reece Shearsmith, playing Jerrill, is somehow the Mule. Seems odd casting to have a well-known UK comedian, skilled at playing both goofy and sadistic/bizarre characters, just play a small bit part as an imperial agent. I'm the Mule now, Dave. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 06:29
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:Maybe, but even then it seems odd for Harry does know about robots IIRC from later books. I might be mixing Asimov with other authors but I dunno what's cannon this isn't star gates or trek wars for me :s
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 06:48
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:It looks like Dusk when he was Day was probably afraid to act agressively to squash any issues that may arise, probably in some misguided attempt to preserve and enjoy the peace. As a result, current Day is going way overboard with authoritarian measures and violent retribution which is going to accelerate the collapse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 10:54
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:I didn't get that impression at all. The way Day reacted when Dusk spoke to the diplomats suggested that this was a change in Dusk's attitude and behaviour, not how he'd always been. And when Dawn asked the robot how often Empire chooses the harshest option, she said "every time", which suggested to me that when Dusk was Day, he did the same kind of thing and so did all his predecessors, and most likely so will Dawn and all his successors. That seemed like it was establishing that the point of the three emperors was that Dawn learns to be Day and Day is replaced before he can turn into Dusk, and that it works as intended. Plus the roast of the trial about being "wine from the same type of grape" at the trial was implying that main intention of the cloning system was to keep a business of usual like attitude for how the empire is run at the top.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 11:38
|
|
|
Speaking of the Imperial mural, I feel like there was some inspiration from the Kryptonian mural from Man of Steel that Zod shows Clark, which makes sense given the Goyer connection. Pham Nuwen posted:No, that's "The Jaunt" by Stephen King. There's also "Hinterlands" by William Gibson which has wormholes driving astronauts insane. I always confuse it and The Jaunt.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 13:36
|
|
|
I love Lee Pace. Eats up every scene he’s in. Absolute legend. I did not love this. Arglebargle III posted:EVERY SCIENCE FICTION SHOW MUST HAVE A 9/11 Also did not love: Gaal’s new traumatic backstory where she was outcast on her home planet for learning science and math by the ruling theocracy which refuses to recognize the rising sea levels HEY, GET IT Biggest problem with this show is it’s about as subtle as a brick. Pretty, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 13:40
|
|
|
I need to watch this again with subtitles on or something. I didn't understand half the poo poo that was said.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 13:44
|
|
|
TomR posted:I need to watch this again with subtitles on or something. I didn't understand half the poo poo that was said. I do this 100% of the time regardless. Not because I have any trouble hearing, I just don't want to miss an unfamiliar name or reference or something and then preoccupy myself with "wait, what?"
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 13:48
|
|
|
TomR posted:I need to watch this again with subtitles on or something. I didn't understand half the poo poo that was said. I did a lot of rewinding 30 seconds, turning on subtitles, then minutes later turning them off annoyed that they’re covering up some detail on the screen I want to see.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 13:56
|
|
|
Glimpse posted:I did a lot of rewinding 30 seconds, turning on subtitles, then minutes later turning them off annoyed that they’re covering up some detail on the screen I want to see. I would applaud the first TV app maker who develops this as a feature. "Rewind 15 seconds and turn on subtitles temporarily for that 15 seconds" Call it the "wait what" button
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 14:00
|
|
|
keisisqrl posted:Gaal’s new traumatic backstory where she was outcast on her home planet for learning science and math by the ruling theocracy which refuses to recognize the rising sea levels HEY, GET IT Same. In the prequel books, prior to all this, Rayche moves off Trantor in order for his new family to be safer, and then he dies defending a university that gets sacked by fundamentalists. I didn't think it was realistic for the decline to take that form so commonly. The Library of Alexandria being burned to the ground is a common myth, after all. Then again, it's always been a fall of Rome analogy, and I don't know if any Romans burned down their own places of learning.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 14:04
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:My fear over the Mule is that the series will need a villain the gears of history turning does not make compelling television to a lot of people, and we are talking Goyer writing the series so he probably will think there needs to be a personification of the forces opposing the Foundation. Like right now it seems like the Empire is the villain, but he's reacting to the situation, not actively perusing them. He was clearly convinced that there is some merit to letting the Foundation, and sticking them on Terminus far far away seems like a good idea. Clearly whatever force that's behind the bombings knows how to push the Empire's buttons and knows this is a FIRE AND BLOOD kind of guy and he will overract to any threat to his rule. What I am most worried about is the Mule is the interpretation of his powers to manipulate peoples emotions and being the only one shown to actually have the ability to be a single person that disrupts the entire plan. That makes him perfect to be a figure from the shadows pulling the strings. To be a Littlefinger for lack of a better term Yeah, the Mule being some behind the scenes villian that also knows psychohistory and is trying to bend the universe to their desire, opposing the foundation the whole time feels like an incredibly easy, lazy thing to write "because it just fits! yin and yang! wow I'm a good writer!", and lets them keep the villain around the whole series. Heck maybe its not even the Mule, maybe its The M.U.L.E. and its Goyer Foundation version of S.P.E.C.T.E.R., an evil anti foundation organization.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 14:39
|
|
|
Blowing the elevator could also just be the Second Foundation doing their second foundation poo poo, prodding things along from the start! They always felt a bit villainy anyway. Maybe Hari set them up years ago and let them do their own thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 15:26
|
|
|
keisisqrl posted:Also did not love: Gaal’s new traumatic backstory where she was outcast on her home planet for learning science and math by the ruling theocracy which refuses to recognize the rising sea levels HEY, GET IT Synnax is America, but also the Empire is America. Don't worry, because soon we'll see that Terminus is also America  Data Graham posted:I would applaud the first TV app maker who develops this as a feature. My Roku TV does that, there's 3 settings for subtitles: Off, On, On for Instant Replay. https://forums.tomsguide.com/faq/how-to-use-the-instant-replay-feature-on-your-roku-device.436126/. There's a dedicated button on the remote that goes back 20 seconds and turns on subtitles.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 15:33
|
|
|
Threadkiller Dog posted:Blowing the elevator could also just be the Second Foundation doing their second foundation poo poo, prodding things along from the start! They always felt a bit villainy anyway. Maybe Hari set them up years ago and let them do their own thing. I hope they don't go this route tbh, in fact I kind of hate the whole idea of space 9/11 and even more so that it was engineered by any group. Its kind of too blunt of a SEE ITS COLLAPSING kind of giant solitary event by itself. If its a truly random act of terrorism they never solve, ok, well thats fine and a symptom of a dying empire and all, but it they make it this big engineered mystery of some string puller, then it makes it feel like the empire collapsing isn't some natural series of events triggered by hundreds of years of contributing factors that was unavoidable, but a collapse thats been engineered to happen. That kind of changes the entire tone of the story if its a manufactured collapse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 15:45
|
|
|
I'm not going to get into the weeds here, but as a book fan the show blew my expectations out of the water and left me thirsty for more. I'm usually very stingy when it comes to padding sacred material for a different medium, but all the changes so far have been very well done. The clone emperors show an interesting dynamic and the space elevator scenes were a wild ride. Asimov had mastered the art of writing polite dialogue between two educated, middle aged men and saw no use in included women or children. Changes needed to be happen and I can see they were clearly made with respect and love for the source material. There were multiple times in episode 2 where I'd flash to the new Zola movie They started loving. It was gross. but the intimacy just went on, and on like a trainwreck I was a passenger on. Too much sex in my Asimov was never a complaint I thought possible, but it's 2021 and here we are. Show has taken the torch from The Expanse. Show good.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 16:04
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:I hope they don't go this route tbh, in fact I kind of hate the whole idea of space 9/11 and even more so that it was engineered by any group. Its kind of too blunt of a SEE ITS COLLAPSING kind of giant solitary event by itself. If its a truly random act of terrorism they never solve, ok, well thats fine and a symptom of a dying empire and all, but it they make it this big engineered mystery of some string puller, then it makes it feel like the empire collapsing isn't some natural series of events triggered by hundreds of years of contributing factors that was unavoidable, but a collapse thats been engineered to happen. That kind of changes the entire tone of the story if its a manufactured collapse. The fall of the empire wouldn't have to be "engineered" as much as... assured to happen in the proper way, though. But it all depends on where they go with the psychohistory. One might consider it just a tool for finding the least bad yet still possible future outcome - still an outcome you have to guide properly to make it all converge in the end.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 16:04
|
|
|
TheOmegaWalrus posted:Too much sex in my Asimov was never a complaint I thought possible, but it's 2021 and here we are. There's a lot of sex in the Foundation sequels, and to a lesser degree the prequels. I remember in the prequels Young Seldon goes to a part of Trantor where all the women are topless and his girlfriend decides to strip down too, and actually writing this out there's a planet in one of the sequels where all of the women are topless also. There's also an older character in the two sequels who ends up having a lot of sex and I've always thought the character was meant to be a stand-in for Asimov. Even in the original novels, a lot of the male characters have some creepy intentions for the few women mains.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
Threadkiller Dog posted:The fall of the empire wouldn't have to be "engineered" as much as... assured to happen in the proper way, though. I guess its a subtle distinction, but I feel like my worry is more on... well... if its engineered it feels like they have too much control over the empire and events, compared to the more subtle project its depicted as. It also gives the vibe they want the collapse of the empire to be this huge bold affair, instead of slow hidden withering thats more akin to a walking corpse that doesn't know its dead yet. EDIT: also, going back to see the first episode again, it was great seeing Siddig show up and it just made me wish they had cast him as R Daneel so we'd get to see more of him. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Sep 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 16:33
|
|
|
galenanorth posted:Same. In the prequel books, prior to all this, Rayche moves off Trantor in order for his new family to be safer, and then he dies defending a university that gets sacked by fundamentalists. I didn't think it was realistic for the decline to take that form so commonly. The Library of Alexandria being burned to the ground is a common myth, after all. Then again, it's always been a fall of Rome analogy, and I don't know if any Romans burned down their own places of learning. You have to remember the core of the Foundation books were written in the late 1940s and early 1950s. It was a lot harder to keep up with the cutting edge of historical thought back then, and even then you don't see stuff like Peter Brown's The World of Late Antiquity until the early 1970s. It's not at all surprising how much Foundation cribs from Edward Gibbon's ancient The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 17:43
|
|
|
etalian posted:Plus the roast of the trial about being "wine from the same type of grape" at the trial was implying that main intention of the cloning system was to keep a business of usual like attitude for how the empire is run at the top. I think it's strongly implied that Imperial cloning was a response to dynastic struggles over the throne. Something like the year of five emperors from Roman history.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:Yeah, the Mule being some behind the scenes villian that also knows psychohistory and is trying to bend the universe to their desire, opposing the foundation the whole time feels like an incredibly easy, lazy thing to write "because it just fits! yin and yang! wow I'm a good writer!", and lets them keep the villain around the whole series. Heck maybe its not even the Mule, maybe its The M.U.L.E. and its Goyer Foundation version of S.P.E.C.T.E.R., an evil anti foundation organization. That's going to add to the giant spider in my nightmares. It's going to wrap me in webs and give me this as an elevator pitch.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
etalian posted:Plus the roast of the trial about being "wine from the same type of grape" at the trial was implying that main intention of the cloning system was to keep a business of usual like attitude for how the empire is run at the top. I like how the kind of person who says "I am the pinnacle of human leadership, all future leaders are just clones of me" is almost certainly the last person who should be cloned into all future leaders. I think it's a clever concept and a great way to show an empire that's that has become stagnant and self-destructive.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 18:56
|
|
|
Dusk would probably have been the better emperor.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:Dusk would probably have been the better emperor. Most of the dynamic is pretty much Day doing whatever he wants since Dawn is too green to have any power and Dusk is sort of doormat character for Day.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 21:27
|
|
|
The best thing with clones since that Arnold movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcK-My1j9Hg
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
Dusk is Cleon XI right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2021 22:35
|
|
|
droll posted:I don't think "everyone" knows that they're a robot, or that they're an important robot for that matter. It seemed to me that only Empire knows. dig how the title is 'empire', zero separation between the man (men) and the state. really nice touch. been so long since I read the books that it might be a carryover, but it's such good use of the language.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 01:47
|
|
|
Tom Guycot posted:God, please don't let them do this. I dunno if I'll get yelled at for not spoilering so I'll use the tags. Robotics in the Foundation / Robot universe is treated as a single novel invention that happened once in human history and after it is forgotten it is never rediscovered. The original 50 Spacer colonies used robots heavily, the Earth colonisers that leapfrog past them have a social revulsion against robots and never use them or apparently learn the science. Then the Spacer worlds die off and 20,000 years or so pass which is long enough for humanity to forget it's origins. In that time nobody ever rediscovers the science of the positronic brain which is essential to building robots so the Empire of the 21st millennium has no information that they ever existed. The only knowledge is left with R. Daneel / Eto Demerzel who builds more secret robots for his own nefarious purposes. quote:
If they do that then this is just Foundation in name only. It's a completely different story with pretty cgi.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 02:05
|
|
|
Bloody Hedgehog posted:I don't how they'd work it out with the timeline and all, but I'm wondering if somehow Reece Shearsmith, playing Jerrill, is somehow the Mule. Seems odd casting to have a well-known UK comedian, skilled at playing both goofy and sadistic/bizarre characters, just play a small bit part as an imperial agent. Now you're making me wonder if he's going to turn out to be some sort of Moriarty to Seldon, some equal-but-opposite villain working towards the same goal but with evil intent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
All this pearl clutching about how they're absolutely ruining Foundation with zero evidence is both amusing and a stark reminder why most TV IV threads are a waste of bandwidth.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 03:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 20:57 |
|
|
Proteus Jones posted:All this pearl clutching about how they're absolutely ruining Foundation with zero evidence is both amusing and a stark reminder why most TV IV threads are a waste of bandwidth. Yes, but have you considered that the Mule might be an actual, psychic mule born on old Earth when Asimov conceptualized psychohistory, and repeatedly cloned through millennia to stop the Foundation and guarantee a dark age when equine rules the galaxy? I'd hate that show.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2021 03:13
|
|
