Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

RandomPauI posted:

Sucks to be any country between Germany and the USSR

This. Tough choices and you probably get massacred either way.

For war movies Armadillo and Restrepo are good non-fiction.

Wolf Warrior 2 is a Chinese war movie mimicking the Hollywood style: heroic Chinese spec-ops save aid workers and shoot terrorists in Africa. It may still be China's highest grossing film.

# ? Sep 25, 2021 23:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 27, 2024 17:09

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

Seconding Restrepo. It's real good.

# ? Sep 25, 2021 23:44

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

RandomPauI posted:

Sucks to be any country between Germany and the USSR

Yeah lots of icky situations just all around. In-between Stalin invading Finland, grabbing the baltics and splitting Poland with the nazis it must have been deadly evident to everyone in the region that you either pick a dance partner or you're next.

# ? Sep 26, 2021 08:38

Hiekkakauppias: Mar 26, 2008; OJ's humble beginnings in acting helped prepare him for the media spotlight in Calgary

MiddleOne posted:

Yeah lots of icky situations just all around. In-between Stalin invading Finland, grabbing the baltics and splitting Poland with the nazis it must have been deadly evident to everyone in the region that you either pick a dance partner or you're next.

And of course Finland's most important trading partners pre-war were The UK, Sweden, Germany, France and Soviet Union. Summer 1940 didn't really leave lots of options for a country dependent on imported food.

# ? Sep 26, 2021 10:15

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Famous middle eastern county, Finland.

# ? Sep 26, 2021 10:19

Hiekkakauppias: Mar 26, 2008; OJ's humble beginnings in acting helped prepare him for the media spotlight in Calgary

Yes Asia thread would be more appropriate when talking about Finns.

# ? Sep 26, 2021 10:24

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

the finno-korean hyperwar was worldwide and shouldn't be confined to any regional thread

# ? Sep 26, 2021 22:49

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

un calls on yemen�s houthis to allow stranded oil tanker probe

quote:

The UN Security Council has called on Yemen�s Houthi rebels to quickly allow UN experts to examine an oil tanker moored off the country�s coast loaded with more than one million barrels of crude oil, warning there is a growing risk it could rupture or explode �causing an environmental, economic, maritime and humanitarian catastrophe for Yemen and the region�.

The UN�s most powerful body reiterated the Houthi rebels are responsible for delaying a technical assessment of the tanker, the FSO Safer, that the United Nations had hoped to deploy in March.

Internal documents obtained by The Associated Press in June 2020 showed seawater had entered the engine compartment of the tanker, which has not been maintained for more than six years, causing damage to the pipelines and increasing the risk of sinking.

Experts said maintenance is no longer possible because the damage to the ship is irreversible.

Inger Andersen, executive director of the UN Environment Programme, told the council an explosion on the Safer tanker would affect millions of people and an oil spill would take decades to clean up and could damage entire ecosystems.

�Economic impacts, social and health impacts would also be dire,� she said. �It is estimated that up to 670,000 people�s livelihoods could be impacted by a spill, and resulting in the damage to fisheries, to marine resources, coastal industries as well as to the economy and food imports.�

Andersen said the forced closure of Hodeidah and Salif ports could limit food and fuel imports for two to three weeks and block 50 percent of fisheries with estimated economic costs over five years of about $350m.

�In the event of a fire or an explosion, around 4.8 million people in Yemen and 350,000 people in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia could be exposed to harmful levels of pollution within 24 to 36 hours,� she said.

The Security Council noted in the press statement the Houthis signalled their acceptance of UN technical experts deploying to the tanker on July 5, 2020, and said it expects this deployment �to happen as soon as possible�.

Council members also noted ongoing discussions �and stressed the need to urgently resolve outstanding issues and called on the Houthis to facilitate unconditional and safe access for UN experts to conduct a comprehensive and impartial assessment and initial repair mission, without further delay�.

But the Houthis said in a statement on Tuesday recent talks on the tanker are deadlocked, blaming the United Nations for the collapse. The rebels said they held three recent meetings with the UN Office for Project Services and claimed the UN has ruled out most of the agreed maintenance for lack of funding.

The Houthis did not provide evidence supporting their claim, and a spokesman for the rebels did not respond to questions.

Responding to the Houthi statement, UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric said on Wednesday the UN had �very intensive discussions� with the Houthis over the last 10 days �trying to bridge the gaps in objectives and understandings�.

He added unnamed countries also tried to unblock things, which was helpful, �but we�re not there yet, which is very unfortunate�.

Dujarric called the Houthi statement �clearly disappointing,� saying it seems to confirm they are not ready to provide the assurances the UN needs to deploy the mission.

He said part of the issue is the Houthis want the UN �to go in and do the full repairs right away, which, obviously, can�t be done�.

�We have explained many times that this cannot be undertaken without an impartial assessment in hand,� Dujarric said.

�What we would like to do is have an assessment mission to see what the situation is in the hull of the ship and in the mechanics and, obviously, do some light repairs to avoid a catastrophe, and then we can come back and figure out exactly what needs to be done to fix the problem entirely.�

Andersen said a regional contingency plan has been developed in the event of an oil spill to mitigate damage. But she said �much more needs to be done in terms of preparedness and contingency planning.�

�Even if the response activities were to be initiated immediately after an oil spill, it would take years for the ecosystems and economies to recover,� the UN environment chief warned.

UN humanitarian chief Mark Lowcock said the UN expert team remains ready to deploy. But he said in a speech read by a deputy that some donor funding for the assessment mission �will start running out soon, so we hope things will start moving much, much faster�.

from back in june, but apparently the situation is still in about the same spot. i hadn't heard about this until recently, but just another potential catastrophe to throw on the vast pile of human misery springing from this conflict. i'm surprised there isn't urgency in the international community for solving this one, as a potential spill could choke off a strategic energy shipping lane for weeks, so this has a threat to profits that the mass starvation of yemeni civilians lacks

# ? Oct 7, 2021 04:21

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

un calls on yemen’s houthis to allow stranded oil tanker probe

from back in june, but apparently the situation is still in about the same spot. i hadn't heard about this until recently, but just another potential catastrophe to throw on the vast pile of human misery springing from this conflict. i'm surprised there isn't urgency in the international community for solving this one, as a potential spill could choke off a strategic energy shipping lane for weeks, so this has a threat to profits that the mass starvation of yemeni civilians lacks

You can drive an oil tanker through an oil spill so no prob Bob.

# ? Oct 7, 2021 04:50

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

un calls on yemen’s houthis to allow stranded oil tanker probe

from back in june, but apparently the situation is still in about the same spot. i hadn't heard about this until recently, but just another potential catastrophe to throw on the vast pile of human misery springing from this conflict. i'm surprised there isn't urgency in the international community for solving this one, as a potential spill could choke off a strategic energy shipping lane for weeks, so this has a threat to profits that the mass starvation of yemeni civilians lacks

I think the Houthis agree it's a big problem. I believe they're trying to use this as a way to extract concessions of some sort. At least that's what I thought a couple years ago; I'm surprised the drat thing is still there.

# ? Oct 7, 2021 11:49

America Inc.: Nov 22, 2013; I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

So in regards to the Kunduz mosque attack in Afghanistan, is Daesh actually at war with the Taliban? Like I'm not comprehending the sheer stupidity of Daesh making enemies with Taliban.

Does Daesh really want the Taliban to keep pointlessly fighting the US and waste resources that could be spent on re-developing the country? Is this a Shining Path thing where Daesh can't handle being second fiddle and will kill their own allies to be at the top? Are they foreign agitators? Perhaps this is indicative of a division within the Taliban itself.

I'll be laughing if the Taliban starts buying drones to kill IS leaders.

America Inc. fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 9, 2021

# ? Oct 9, 2021 21:25

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

no hay camino posted:

So in regards to the Kunduz mosque attack in Afghanistan, is Daesh actually at war with the Taliban? Like I'm not comprehending the sheer stupidity of Daesh making enemies with Taliban.

Does Daesh really want the Taliban to keep pointlessly fighting the US and waste resources that could be spent on re-developing the country? Is this a Shining Path thing where Daesh can't handle being second fiddle and will kill their own allies to be at the top? Are they foreign agitators?

I'll be laughing if the Taliban starts buying drones to kill IS leaders.

Yes they are at war. The Taliban and IS have been actively fighting for some time. When the Taliban took Kabul they freed the prisoners of a jail, which held many militants. Except for the ISIS-K leader who was held there. Him they had shot.

# ? Oct 9, 2021 21:39

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Yeah, if you don't understand how ISIS and the Taliban could be at loggerheads, you probably underestimate the degree to which ISIS's ideology, to the extent that it exists, is nihilistic and beyond the pale even for the Deobandi/other more standard "Islamist" movements.

# ? Oct 9, 2021 23:01

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Yeah the Taliban's version of Islam still leaves room for weird stuff like tying ribbons around sacred trees over the burial site of your favorite martyr to direct what can only be described as "good vibes" into his grave, interpreting religious law according to your dreams, and being blessed by touching holy relics. It's a puritanical reformist movement, but very very much not compatible with Salafism.

# ? Oct 10, 2021 00:17

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Yeah it's hard to overstate just how much folk islam includes all kinds of seemingly bizarre syncretic stuff that wouldn't even be recognizably islamic to non-local eyes in many cases.

To say that stuff is not compatible with ISIS' particular brand of salafism is an incredible understatement

# ? Oct 10, 2021 00:33

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

no hay camino posted:

So in regards to the Kunduz mosque attack in Afghanistan, is Daesh actually at war with the Taliban? Like I'm not comprehending the sheer stupidity of Daesh making enemies with Taliban.

Does Daesh really want the Taliban to keep pointlessly fighting the US and waste resources that could be spent on re-developing the country? Is this a Shining Path thing where Daesh can't handle being second fiddle and will kill their own allies to be at the top? Are they foreign agitators? Perhaps this is indicative of a division within the Taliban itself.

I'll be laughing if the Taliban starts buying drones to kill IS leaders.

The Taliban is simply an insular, nationalist resistance/government-in-waiting, while IS is an internationalist revolutionary movement that explicitly rejects state divides. It's a huge mistake to believe that because they're both comprised of Muslims, they're natural or automatic allies - to IS, the Taliban are no different from the corrupt materialists governing so many other Islamic nations.

This famous New Yorker article has a decent basic overview of the history of IS in Afghanistan:

quote:

Isis established its first stronghold in Afghanistan in Nangarhar�s Achin District, on the country�s eastern frontier. Achin abuts the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan, or fata, a mostly ungoverned region that is home to various Islamist groups. The border is demarcated by the Spin Ghar range, sheer, jagged peaks that mellow into foothills with lush river valleys. As early as 2010, militants from the fata fleeing Pakistan Army offensives started entering one of the valleys in Achin, called the Mamand. �They came with their wives and children, on foot,� Asil Maizullah, a tribal elder there, told me. �They said that they were enemies of Pakistan. We said, �Then, you are welcome.� �

Maizullah estimated that, over several years, two thousand militants from Pakistan settled in the Mamand. His older brother, Mohammad Younis, hosted eight families in his house. Eventually, the militants took over, imposing a conservative form of Islam on local villagers�closing schools, opening fundamentalist madrassas, and forbidding poppy cultivation. �They started creating problems, calling us spies for the infidels,� Maizullah said. In 2014, several militant leaders in the fata aligned themselves with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the Iraqi founder of isis, and the next year isis formally announced its expansion into Afghanistan, where the militants in Achin declared their allegiance to the group.

The isis fighters in the Mamand Valley began clashing with the Taliban and demanding that locals side with them. People suspected of disloyalty were executed. Maizullah, who had a son in the Afghan National Army, decided to flee. He urged Younis, his brother, to join him, but Younis refused. That summer, isis ordered nearly a hundred local elders to assemble at a mosque. One of them, Fateh Gul, told me, �They accused us of supporting the Taliban and put us in an abandoned house. They beat us on every part of our body.� After twenty days, Gul was released. Ten elders, including Younis and eight of Maizullah�s cousins, were less fortunate. isis later published a highly produced video, complete with sound effects and slow motion, showing the men kneeling on a row of explosives, surrounded by their former guests. Younis is the first in line, and dies with the others when the explosives are ignited.

�They tricked us,� Maizullah told me.

We were sitting behind a wall of sandbags in a fortified checkpoint on the southern slope of the valley. Below us stretched terraced cornfields, rocky creeks, and rampant wild marijuana. To the east, the bald faces of the Spin Ghar peaks were patched with oblong white shapes, which, Maizullah said, were talc mines. Most Afghan talc is exported to Pakistan, where much of it then continues to Europe and America, ending up in household products ranging from makeup to baby powder. According to a report by Global Witness, an N.G.O. that monitors natural resources in conflict zones, the Taliban have long taxed Afghan talc producers in Nangarhar, generating millions of dollars a year in revenue. Ironically, the marines in Helmand Province used to carry baby powder on patrol, to mark routes free of Taliban explosives.

Access to talc and other minerals appears to have been a factor in early skirmishes between the Taliban and isis. In 2015, an isis commander told Global Witness, �At any price, we will take the mines.� But the rift between the groups was also more fundamental. The Taliban publicly repudiated al-Baghdadi�s authority, calling his apocalyptic ideology a �scourge,� while isis denounced the Taliban�s relationship with Pakistan, which supports the insurgency and harbors its leaders.

The theatrical killing of Younis and the other elders, though unremarkable compared with countless isis executions in Iraq and Syria, appalled many Afghans, including members of the Taliban. The fact that the perpetrators were foreigners rendered the offense even more egregious. The Taliban, who have killed thousands of Afghan civilians, sometimes savagely, released a statement condemning the �horrific video.�

As long as isis and the Taliban were fighting each other, the U.S. and Afghan militaries were slow to intervene. But, in 2017, the year that President Trump defined one of his main priorities in Afghanistan as �obliterating isis,� the coalition launched a concerted offensive to reclaim the Mamand Valley.

At the time, Maizullah was living in a settlement of internally displaced people, outside Jalalabad. Afghanistan�s intelligence agency, the National Directorate for Security, or N.D.S., proposed organizing his tribe into a militia that would join the assault on the valley. Maizullah and five hundred others volunteered. Forty of them were killed. �isis didn�t retreat,� Maizullah recalled. �They didn�t care about dying.�

That April, the U.S. deployed the largest non-nuclear weapon in its arsenal, a twenty-thousand-pound Massive Ordnance Air Blast, or moab�colloquially known as the Mother of All Bombs�against an isis redoubt in the Mamand. Afghan officials say that the moab killed ninety-six militants, and credit it with precipitating isis�s decline in Achin.

To reach Maizullah�s checkpoint, I�d accompanied the district governor in a convoy up a rutted dirt road that paralleled a river flowing swiftly with snowmelt. Trucks loaded with talc bounced by, carrying local workers, who looked as if they�d been coated in flour. We passed the ravine where the moab had been dropped and a collection of clay houses that had been badly damaged by the blast. Nearby, two Black Hawk helicopters were lifting off from a U.S. Special Forces base. As Maizullah and I spoke, the Americans lobbed mortars into distant hills.

The 2017 offensive had pushed isis out of the villages, but militants persisted in the mountains, and they had spread to other areas of Nangarhar Province, including Shirzad District, adding local and foreign fighters to their ranks along the way. Ahmed Ali, the chief of the provincial council, told me, �In Nangarhar, isis is now more dangerous and more numerous than the Taliban.� Although isis has been confined to the regions along the eastern border, it continues to carry out catastrophic attacks in population centers. In August, an isis suicide bomber killed sixty-three wedding guests in Kabul. This past Friday, in Nangarhar Province, near Achin, explosives brought down the roof of a mosque full of worshippers. No one immediately claimed responsibility. More than a hundred people were killed or injured.

If the U.S. were to return to the Doha accord, and the Taliban and the Afghan government began negotiations in Oslo, isis could attract hard-line insurgents averse to a brokered peace. According to Ahmed Ali, many criminal networks currently affiliated with the Taliban in Nangarhar might also �change their white flag to the black flag�isis could replace the Taliban.�

Before I left Maizullah�s outpost, I asked about his son, the soldier, whose name was Shamsuddin. Maizullah said that Shamsuddin had been stationed in Helmand Province, not far from Camp Leatherneck. When Maizullah fled Achin, Shamsuddin�s five-year commitment to the Army was almost over. �I asked him to please come home,� Maizullah said. �He told me, �It would be shameful.� � Ten days before Shamsuddin�s contract expired, a Taliban sniper shot him in the head.

BTW, the fact that ISIS is in lowercase in that article has no special significance - it's just that the New Yorker uses a special font for acronyms that translates poorly when copy-pasted.

Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Oct 10, 2021

# ? Oct 10, 2021 01:03

Saladman: Jan 12, 2010

North Africa doesn't really make it into this thread or English media much, but Tunisia got a new government yesterday after the semi-self-coup in late July when the president suspended parliament and dismissed the prime minister in what was almost certainly unconstitutional. All of them pretty much, including the new PM, are technocrats, mainly academics at the University of Tunis, and are from outside the regular political picks. The current president was faculty of law at the University of Carthage for years, so presumably he just picked a bunch of his old colleagues or at least people he knew of. Parliament remains suspended.

The semi-self-coup remains fairly popular although protests against his action seem to be getting larger - though still fairly small.https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/thousands-protest-against-tunisia-leader-with-government-awaited-2021-10-10/ shows a video of a recent one which looks like maybe a couple thousand people against the "creative" interpretation of the constitution. The protest sign they zoom in on at the end of the video says "the people want the constitution to be respected."

Still on the ground though, unless you happen to be at that particular street in Tunis where the protests are and on a Sunday, you'd have a hard time knowing there was anything going on from what friends in Tunis tell me. It's still unclear if this is going to be one of those "ends justify the means" types of situations where there was some hard-to-do house cleaning, or if it will be a slide into a new period of strongman rule and disillusionment from people invested into the parties that Presdient Kais "Robocop" Saied just sidelined. He particularly sidelined the political Islam party Ennhada, but he has a rather syncretic belief set himself and doesn't fit into any "pro/anti Islam" or "left/right wing" paradigm, at least in Tunisian political terms - obviously he is very socially conservative by Western standards.

Saladman fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Oct 12, 2021

# ? Oct 12, 2021 09:49

khwarezm: Oct 26, 2010; Deal with it.

I'm reading this piece about Syria that comes from a very clearly slanted viewpoint and something I find very odd is how for some people regressive Islamic radicals can simultaneously be heroic freedom fighters against United States Imperialism (in Afghanistan) and then also destructive enemies of civilization in the pocket of US imperialism, in Syria in this case.

The article doesn't even seem interested in noting the difference between the different Jihadi groups in the country, look at this:

quote:

Many of the groups later consolidated into the Al-Nusra Front whose elite fighters came from Chechnya, Dagestan, and included Uyghurs from China�s Xinjiang province among other places.

In May 2015, when the jihadists took control of the ancient city of Palmyra, they proceeded to demolish the World Heritage site located there and conducted mass executions of captured soldiers and more than 400 civilian supporters.

You'd swear to god from the way this bit is written that the Al-Nusra front took over Palmyra and destroyed it, and not ISIS, which I guess inconveniently were probably the faction in Syria most thoroughly targeted for destruction by America, far moreso than the Assad regime.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 17, 2021

# ? Oct 17, 2021 19:55

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

khwarezm posted:

I'm reading this piece about Syria that comes from a very clearly slanted viewpoint and something I find very odd is how for some people regressive Islamic radicals can simultaneously be heroic freedom fighters against United States Imperialism (in Afghanistan) and then also destructive enemies of civilization in the pocket of US imperialism, in Syria is this case.

It's the "An rear end in a top hat fighting an rear end in a top hat is funny no matter who wins" conundrum.

Also I suppose it depends on which rear end in a top hat is getting more money from the CIA/KGB/ISI at any given point.

# ? Oct 17, 2021 20:03

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

khwarezm posted:

I'm reading this piece about Syria that comes from a very clearly slanted viewpoint and something I find very odd is how for some people regressive Islamic radicals can simultaneously be heroic freedom fighters against United States Imperialism (in Afghanistan) and then also destructive enemies of civilization in the pocket of US imperialism, in Syria in this case.

Because those people do not care about the conditions on the ground, just whose chess piece (or perceived chess piece) is being advantaged or disadvantaged.

# ? Oct 17, 2021 21:06

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

khwarezm posted:

I'm reading this piece about Syria that comes from a very clearly slanted viewpoint and something I find very odd is how for some people regressive Islamic radicals can simultaneously be heroic freedom fighters against United States Imperialism (in Afghanistan) and then also destructive enemies of civilization in the pocket of US imperialism, in Syria in this case.

The article doesn't even seem interested in noting the difference between the different Jihadi groups in the country, look at this:

You'd swear to god from the way this bit is written that the Al-Nusra front took over Palmyra and destroyed it, and not ISIS, which I guess inconveniently were probably the faction in Syria most thoroughly targeted for destruction by America, far moreso than the Assad regime.

The answer is that is a very bad article, written by a chump.

# ? Oct 17, 2021 22:00

A big flaming stink: Apr 26, 2010

Rent-A-Cop posted:

It's the "An rear end in a top hat fighting an rear end in a top hat is depressing no matter who wins" conundrum.

fixed

# ? Oct 17, 2021 22:06

adebisi lives: Nov 11, 2009

khwarezm posted:

You'd swear to god from the way this bit is written that the Al-Nusra front took over Palmyra and destroyed it, and not ISIS, which I guess inconveniently were probably the faction in Syria most thoroughly targeted for destruction by America, far moreso than the Assad regime.

If Al Nusra ended up as successful as ISIS was at their peak we would been bombing them too. US foreign policy never has trouble finding uses for jihadis, either as "moderate" rebels or next week's punching bag.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 12:45

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Apparently a military coup attempt in Sudan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/25/sudan-coup-attempt-khartoum/

quote:

NAIROBI � Sudan�s military on Monday detained the prime minister, dissolved the government and declared a state of emergency, plunging the country�s fragile democratic transition into disarray.

The move comes just days after the U.S. envoy to the region met with Sudan�s military leaders and warned them that American support for Sudan was conditional on the military keeping its commitments to transition to civilian rule.

Sudan�s top military commander and official head of state, Lt. Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, appeared on state television at around noon local time to make the announcement, but he did not specifically address the arrests of Prime Minister Abdalla Hamdok and other members of the government. He said the military was still committed to democratic elections by mid-2023.

As news of the military�s action spread around Khartoum, crowds gathered in the streets in protest � just days after the capital witnessed the biggest pro-democracy demonstrations since 2019 when longtime dictator Omar Hassan al-Bashir was toppled by a wave of popular discontent.

# ? Oct 25, 2021 12:43

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Rust Martialis posted:

Apparently a military coup attempt in Sudan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/25/sudan-coup-attempt-khartoum/

welcome to two days ago lol

# ? Oct 26, 2021 18:33

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Rust Martialis posted:

Apparently a military coup attempt in Sudan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/25/sudan-coup-attempt-khartoum/

The coopers won OP

I accidentally liked a post titled"Sudan military coup fires on anti coup protestors" and was friended by an Assad loyalist with gas attack denial litterer on his FB

Good times

# ? Oct 27, 2021 02:39

Bohemian Nights: Jul 14, 2006; When I wake up,
I look into the mirror
I can see a clearer, vision
I should start living today; Clapping Larry

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-59230564

quote:

Khalid Payenda told the BBC that most of the 300,000 troops and police on the government's books did not exist.

shocking

# ? Nov 11, 2021 07:25

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Bohemian Nights posted:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-59230564

shocking

Wasn't this explicitly part of the reporting for 2013's "This Is What Winning Looks Like"?

# ? Nov 11, 2021 15:54

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Wasn't this explicitly part of the reporting for 2013's "This Is What Winning Looks Like"?

The US knew this.

Obama hid the facts

# ? Nov 11, 2021 16:16

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Wasn't this explicitly part of the reporting for 2013's "This Is What Winning Looks Like"?

Yeah it's very unsurprising. Not only have there been many reports of this over the last 20 years this same poo poo happens in part conflicts and other countries.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 16:24

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Count Roland posted:

Yeah it's very unsurprising. Not only have there been many reports of this over the last 20 years this same poo poo happens in part conflicts and other countries.

I was almost going to say nothing because I'm sure I've also read this about the ARVN.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 18:18

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Bohemian Nights posted:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-59230564

shocking

Would it have been too difficult to, I don't know, hold a military parade so you could verify the number of men dressed in uniform carrying a boom stick? Or would this only have resulted in the generals giving their extended family a crash course on how to march in step?

# ? Nov 11, 2021 18:37

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Well if you do that nobody is garrisoning the provinces...

# ? Nov 11, 2021 19:43

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Nenonen posted:

Would it have been too difficult to, I don't know, hold a military parade so you could verify the number of men dressed in uniform carrying a boom stick? Or would this only have resulted in the generals giving their extended family a crash course on how to march in step?

I don't think any country in the world has military parades that involve literally every solider in their army. I mean I could be wrong about that but it sounds like it would be a logistical nightmare and I'm sure there are better ways to account for all soldiers.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 19:51

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

If your army is mostly ghost soldiers then the problem is that you have corrupt as hell officers who you can't trust with the most basic logistical task (accurately reporting how many soldiers you have). The issue isn't how you choose to count the soldiers, its that your army would rather lie to you than fight the war

# ? Nov 11, 2021 21:33

YoursTruly: Jul 29, 2012; Put me in the ~~trash~~
Recycle Bin
where
I belong.

This isn't a joke question.
Wouldn't most armies lie about their size and willingness to fight in a war? I'm going to assume that this problem didn't exist explicitly to the Afghan Army. I'd think that almost every army around the world/over time would over exaggerate its numbers and willingness to fight, if for no reason other than propaganda.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 21:47

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Charliegrs posted:

I don't think any country in the world has military parades that involve literally every solider in their army. I mean I could be wrong about that but it sounds like it would be a logistical nightmare and I'm sure there are better ways to account for all soldiers.

I don't think the idea would be so much one giant completely impractical military parade that involves literally every solider in the army, but more-so some sort of inspector/team of inspectors arrives to the 13th Brigades or 8th Regiment's or whatevers barracks with no prior notice and requests to see them muster for parade. In a non-corrupt as hell military thats a fairly easy thing to have happen, and a quick and easy way to make sure the soldiers actually exist. And have enough basic enough level of military discipline/training to march in formation.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 21:51

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

YoursTruly posted:

This isn't a joke question.
Wouldn't most armies lie about their size and willingness to fight in a war? I'm going to assume that this problem didn't exist explicitly to the Afghan Army. I'd think that almost every army around the world/over time would over exaggerate its numbers and willingness to fight, if for no reason other than propaganda.

No, you lie about that to the enemy or other nations. Victorious armies tell themselves the truth, no matter how hard it is.

One of the reasons America lost all these bushfire wars is because the US military embraced a culture of success theater and self-deception. In the wars America won, the military actually overestimated the strength of the enemy relative to itself and prepared accordingly.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 21:54

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

YoursTruly posted:

This isn't a joke question.
Wouldn't most armies lie about their size and willingness to fight in a war? I'm going to assume that this problem didn't exist explicitly to the Afghan Army. I'd think that almost every army around the world/over time would over exaggerate its numbers and willingness to fight, if for no reason other than propaganda.

this is more about grift and payroll than posturing. US generals don't receive lump sums of cash for numbers of recruits. their money comes when they go into procurement for lockheed at retirement. taking kickbacks and lying is the lowly recruiter's job

# ? Nov 11, 2021 22:11

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 27, 2024 17:09

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

OctaMurk posted:

No, you lie about that to the enemy or other nations. Victorious armies tell themselves the truth, no matter how hard it is.

One of the reasons America lost all these bushfire wars is because the US military embraced a culture of success theater and self-deception. In the wars America won, the military actually overestimated the strength of the enemy relative to itself and prepared accordingly.

Yes, one of the bigger failures of Vietnam was that the Pentagon continually underestimated the NVA and the Vietcong, so they were totally unprepared for things like the Tet Offensive.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 22:28

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

«‹›636 »