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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:That's kind of like asking "why did the warlords of Mogadishu shoot down a blackhawk?" Was that part of an elaborate plan or was it a target of opportunity? Zlodo posted:I've read the books a long rear end time ago so I don't remember the specifics of how the space magicks work in this universe, but unless the imperial ship was able to report back to the empire before being shot down, it's possible that the empire has no idea of what's going on other than "we sent a warship over there and it didn't come back", so from their point of view it's potentially much more serious than a handful of rebels loving around Yea that's the other thing, ship went to a place having an issue, it didn't come back, something serious is going down so send more ships ready to take on whatever going on. Something tells me the corvettes would not be able to handle the imperial warship in an open fight.
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Oct 19, 2021 16:11
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:The Huntress mentioned that they'd been scoping out the town for some time, and explicitly mentioned the kids going outside the city limits, unguarded. It's clear that they were always planning to kidnap someone and force the leadership into letting them in, they just lucked into Salvor and adapted. Maybe they'd even seen her go in the night before and figured she might try again. The kids did go outside the city but we only ever saw them going to the Vault, which the Warden person used to make the Huntress pass out (so we know it's inside the fence?). Even if they do capture a bunch of people... the people inside might just go, "Well, no actually. Your army can wait outside because we don't want to be massacred." Does anyone know how the show was written? Did they have a big communal writers' room or?
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Oct 19, 2021 16:59
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twistedmentat posted:Was that part of an elaborate plan or was it a target of opportunity? Both. They had been trained by agents of OBL in how to use RPGs to take down US military choppers, but the unprepared raid provided a perfect opportunity, which was seized. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993) Speaking of, given Empire's opinions on the Foundation, I'm not certain he is going to view a missing, Imperial warship sent to a planet of ~rebels~ as anything other than "those frackin' scientists blew up my toy boat!"
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Oct 19, 2021 17:06
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Both. They had been trained by agents of OBL in how to use RPGs to take down US military choppers, but the unprepared raid provided a perfect opportunity, which was seized. That would be my expectation. And he could just have another few warships bombard the planet from orbit in retaliation. Final episode next week everyone. Show's over.
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Oct 19, 2021 17:27
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I would really enjoy if the encyclopedists go full rogue and abandon Terminus to join the Anacreons in some secret pirate base. The show is already full corrupted timeline, just keep throwing curve balls at us.
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Oct 19, 2021 17:31
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Rutibex posted:I would really enjoy if the encyclopedists go full rogue and abandon Terminus to join the Anacreons in some secret pirate base. The show is already full corrupted timeline, just keep throwing curve balls at us. I don't know if this is a thing that needs to happen from the books, but it would allow them to get out from under the Empire's umbrella before the fall happens, by having Brother Dusk order another few ships to bombard the (now empty, but not known to him) settlement leading to the foundation effectively faking their death.
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Oct 19, 2021 17:34
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Nitrousoxide posted:The whole ordeal required a lot of stuff to go PERFECTLY to work out. 2: The communication was necessarily unencrypted because of the lost buoy. 3: She was completely dedicated to getting into that building. That's the first thing she asked, and she had multiple avenues to try and get there. Maybe break in with a few people and just rush it. Maybe take a hostage (this almost worked). Getting captured was not part of the plan. Only at the last minute did she luck into this backup-backup plan. 4/5: The Empire ship was not in range of the AA gun when she got to the tower. Dropping the shield/invading the town is what prompted the ship to get so close. The plan was to make the imperial ship come in recklessly by dropping the shield and starting a massacre. 6: Comms shenanigans were not part of the original plan, but good improvising on the lieutenant's part/bad fuckup on Salvor's part. The AA was cloaked, presumably to deal with those kinds of scans. I appreciate you making this post because only in addressing these points did I really see that the plan really did make sense on multiple levels. You can see how things were supposed to go down, and how much of what actually happened was desperate scrambling on the part of the Anacreons when they hosed stuff up. They weren't scheming masterminds, but desperate people trying to fix things as they kept going wrong. We're just seeing it from the perspective of their enemies so it looks more impressive. There were a lot of mistakes that lead to the situation unfolding the way it did, but they honestly all make sense.
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Oct 19, 2021 17:44
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Aertuun posted:The kids did go outside the city but we only ever saw them going to the Vault, which the Warden person used to make the Huntress pass out (so we know it's inside the fence?). My point was that the Anacreons did reconnaissance work and improvised based on that. Their leader is called the Huntress, she literally hunts the Bishop's Claw before "hunting" Salvor. The show is characterizing the Anacreons as expert hunters, who learn about their enemy and hit their weak spots. Whether the show's writers are bad at writing tactics or not is, in my opinion, irrelevant and akin to discussing whether the technology is based on real science or not.
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Oct 19, 2021 17:58
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Rutibex posted:The communication relay was taken down, they explicitly could not communicate with the rest of the empire Unless the ship had its own array built in. Probably not, but unless I missed a line ruling that out it’s a possibility
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Oct 20, 2021 00:13
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Nitrousoxide posted:The whole ordeal required a lot of stuff to go PERFECTLY to work out. Eiba's explanation of how it was a bit looser than you write it out is also a decent take. The one thing not mentioned is the fact that Salvor says, out loud, "they aren't cloaking that from us..." and doesn't elaborate on why she said that or take action on this knowledge is a weak link in the chain of events; she only does it for the audience's sake, not for the sake of the world of the show. Honestly I think it would've been better writing to have her not notice, not say anything, and leave the speculation for the audience because we all knew what was going to happen before it happened. It probably would've been more impactful if we didn't. That being said, a TV show that spends an episode that explains and displays all of the plans, ala a Run Lola Run scenario, is an extremely entertaining show... but we'll never see that in prestige-like TV. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 02:11
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Nitrousoxide posted:It did have Hari's blood on it. They kept lingering on the knife everytime she entered or left the airlock so it's clearly important. Not only that, the final time they showed it - just before the computer AI disappeared and holo-Hari showed up - the light on it went from blinking to solid, presumably to indicate completion of the upload.
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Oct 20, 2021 05:18
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My guess is that the religious crisis gets worse and the empire is unable to respond to their lost ship even though they want to. Basically the start of the empire losing the ability to police/control the outer reaches.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:40
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D-Pad posted:My guess is that the religious crisis gets worse and the empire is unable to respond to their lost ship even though they want to. Basically the start of the empire losing the ability to police/control the outer reaches. I thought the Huntress lady explained that Anacreon is technologically bankrupt, and their only means of getting revenge for the Empire's attack on their homeworld is to use a navigation module from one of their ships. My guess is that they will use it to attack Trantor directly. Such an attack would probably catch the Empire unawares and (book stuff) establish a reasonable basis for the "Four Kingdoms" to break off from the Empire and become an independent entity.
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Oct 20, 2021 07:38
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:I thought the Huntress lady explained that Anacreon is technologically bankrupt, and their only means of getting revenge for the Empire's attack on their homeworld is to use a navigation module from one of their ships. She claimed she wanted the navigation module because they didn't have star maps and so couldn't venture out far beyond Anacreon's solar system, and Salvor correctly guesses she was just saying anything she could because she wanted to get into the Control Tower for some reason. It wasn't until it was too late that Salvor figured out it was so she could bring down the system powering the town's shield, because her only (immediate) goal was to get inside and cause as much death and pain as possible to people she holds responsible for her planet being a nuclear wasteland.
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Oct 20, 2021 08:38
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Lots of good points raised but one thing still bothers me is the huntress would have to been aware of the leadership of the Foundation, that they were being lead by some wishy washy weiner that was following the Seldon plan as if was religious dogma. That's not something you could ascertain from just observing the settlement.
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Oct 20, 2021 15:52
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So The Foundation knows the plan and is "following" it?
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Oct 20, 2021 16:01
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twistedmentat posted:Lots of good points raised but one thing still bothers me is the huntress would have to been aware of the leadership of the Foundation, that they were being lead by some wishy washy weiner that was following the Seldon plan as if was religious dogma. That's not something you could ascertain from just observing the settlement. In what sense? From what I remember she just needed them to call on the Empire, which is a reasonable assumption for what is ostensibly an outpost of the Empire. I also think the show expects as to accept the Huntress as an expert reader of people who immediately pegged Lewis as a rules follower who just wanted someone with big guns to protect him.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:10
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CainFortea posted:So The Foundation knows the plan and is "following" it? I mean, it certainly seems like a flaw, to me, that the people who are saying the Empire is in imminent danger of collapse are relying on the Empire for safety and security!
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Oct 20, 2021 16:36
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Lewis was relying on nothing bad ever happening to them because Hari hadn’t warned them about it. He explicitly says he had denied Salvor’s requests for additional resources because he found it pointless. When that failed he immediately fell back to “well, actually the empire will protect us” because really what he is is a follower at heart.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:39
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Been too busy to keep up with the thread, and I haven't been a fan of some of the stuff they've done on the show- but [Latest episode spoiler] Not having Hardin fall into the whole "I've got someone at gunpoint- drop your weapon" trope was awesome. I hate that so much, what's to stop the hostage taker from killing the hostage AND you once you've put your gun down? Wish TV and film would stop using that. (the way the fight scene was shot after sucked though. Average shot length: 1.2 seconds...)
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Oct 20, 2021 17:12
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Show is good. It's standing up to scrutiny and sparking interesting debates. I'm pleasantly surprised with it! Now I'm looking forward to seeing them change almost the entire cast except Hari, the emperors, and the robot each season. Doooooooo it!
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Oct 20, 2021 17:16
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Vorgen posted:Show is good. It's standing up to scrutiny and sparking interesting debates. I'm pleasantly surprised with it! Is this an enormous spoiler or something? Why wouldn't Hari change?
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Oct 20, 2021 17:43
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Nitrousoxide posted:Is this an enormous spoiler or something? Why wouldn't Hari change? Yes.
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Oct 20, 2021 17:54
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Nitrousoxide posted:Is this an enormous spoiler or something? Why wouldn't Hari change? The vault on Terminus contains all of the psycho-history predictions of Hari and every time there is a crisis a Hari hologram comes out and explains why he already calculated this event and don't worry its all according to plan Though I don't expect this is the case in the show. I think they are going to keep Hari alive through the entire series with brain scans and cloning or something.
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Oct 20, 2021 17:54
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Rutibex posted:book spoilers Importantly The Vault only ever opened AFTER the crises was done. It never gave fore warning. And in fact is part of the problems realized in later books when the Foundation finds a way to tell when the vault will be opening again.
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Oct 20, 2021 17:57
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galenanorth posted:Yes. *sigh* This is what I get for foolishly visiting this thread in the middle of the week. The collection of book readers in this thread has got to be some of the worst spoilers I've ever had the displeasure of interacting with. Literally no other series that I've engaged with the fans of have gone out of their way to spoil upcoming stuff on a nearly daily basis.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:19
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Nitrousoxide posted:*sigh* ....you uncovered a spoiler and are upset that you read it?
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Oct 20, 2021 18:23
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It was, in fact, not uncovered. I, the silly non-book reader went out of my way to spoiler tag the text in the post I quoted. Go look back at the OP's post my friend.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:25
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Nitrousoxide posted:It was, in fact, not uncovered. I, the silly non-book reader went out of my way to spoiler tag the text in the post I quoted. Go look back at the OP's post my friend. You're right, my bad. I looked at your quote and not the OP. Sorry.
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Oct 20, 2021 18:27
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Nitrousoxide posted:*sigh* It might not even be a spoiler. This show is really different from the books
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Oct 20, 2021 19:37
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I just want more Empire, specifically each successive Lee Pace being in contempt of the previous Lee Pace and worsening the Imperium and hastening it's downfall. Also, more Brother Dawn erasing the lifetime mural work of the previous Brother Dusk. I'm surprised that the cloning emperor was a new concept, it fits really well in the universe and you don't need to cast a bunch of actors.
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Oct 20, 2021 19:41
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The Empire stuff has been the only good part of this show. Everything else feels like an adaptation of a YA novel.
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Oct 20, 2021 19:48
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Ego-bot posted:The Empire stuff has been the only good part of this show. Everything else feels like an adaptation of a YA novel. Issac Asimov wrote the first foundation novel when he was 22 years old and it didn't include much of the empire stuff. Much later when he was in his 60's he wrote a bunch of Foundation prequels that included more Trantor back story. They have been pulling a lot of content from the prequels for this show.
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Oct 20, 2021 19:54
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one thing I'd like to see from the book regarding Trantor visuals and scenery is the screen simulating the sky, on the interior side of the domes covering Trantor, breaking down, so there are black tiles or whatever.
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Oct 20, 2021 20:13
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Added some spoilers upthread, book readers please keep it in your pants at least about the vault and the actual plan
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Oct 20, 2021 20:17
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galenanorth posted:one thing I'd like to see from the book regarding Trantor visuals and scenery is the screen simulating the sky, on the interior side of the domes covering Trantor, breaking down, so there are black tiles or whatever. This actually happened in the first or second episode I think? Raych and Gaal are at looking at the "sky" as the attack begins.
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Oct 20, 2021 20:50
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Been too busy to keep up with the thread, and I haven't been a fan of some of the stuff they've done on the show- 
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Oct 21, 2021 04:25
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Nitrousoxide posted:Is this an enormous spoiler or something? Why wouldn't Hari change? I don't think this is a spoiler and I didn't intend it be. But just in case, in the first episode the timeline of 1,000 years was introduced. In the second episode immortal robots and clone emperors were introduced in-depth. And in this latest episode Hari has just recovered from his stab wound 30 years prior using the knife he was stabbed with, a door lock, and hologram tech. In a universe with immortal robots and immortal clone emperors, an immortal holo Hari seems practically a mundane given. Also it was just what I wanted to see happen. It's speculation.
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Oct 21, 2021 15:54
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That was the best episode yet.
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Oct 22, 2021 07:34
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D-Pad posted:That was the best episode yet. Lots of shirtless lee pace in the first 2 mins, good start
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Oct 22, 2021 08:35
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