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MechaX posted:I mean, it wasn't just a pinky promise on Cima's part, Kou and the Albion were literally briefed about this by the top brass (given Bask seems to be leading this entire operation) actually on the field.
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Oct 20, 2021 05:05
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it turned out that kou's criminally poor taste in women was in fact a crime.
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Oct 20, 2021 05:07
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They should've given him the firing squad, maybe with Cimas help they could've saved Des Moinesgimme the GOD drat candy posted:it turned out that kou's criminally poor taste in women was in fact a crime. Nina is hot so it's understandable
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Oct 20, 2021 05:07
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Nessus posted:Oh, so that's why he went to prison. I assumed that was just general Federale evil. It didn't help but in Kou's case, but I think that was more due to the Unit 03 theft and probably being caught *in* Unit 03 by Bask himself. Now in Captain Synapse's situation though... side materials noted that his rear end was lined up in front of the firing squad for the poo poo he pulled. dude already led a mutiny stealing Unit 03, and I can imagine Bask rolling up to his tribunal being like "not only did he steal federation property and wrecked most of it, he also had his ship attack defectors immediately after I told him not to." There's not a defense in the world that would have saved Synapse in that scenario. The GP Project data being deleted saved Kou because he can't be serving a crime for helping steal a unit that doesn't exist, and you'd think that Synapse also shouldn't have been executed for leading a mutiny to steal something that doesn't exist, but they could still slap his rear end with the Cima Fleet stuff and he'd likely be dead anyway.
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Oct 20, 2021 05:13
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chiasaur11 posted:Sorta. Bandai wanted the Gundam in the first episode for marketing. Tomino didn't do that with the "real" first episode, so... well, we got what we got. yeah but how did they only realize this was a problem so late in production
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Oct 20, 2021 05:23
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Stairmaster posted:yeah but how did they only realize this was a problem so late in production Spite, if memory serves. Tomino was bitter about Bandai, and was sabotaging the project.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:15
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every aspect of victory was inspired by depression, spite, or tomino's recurring weirdness about women.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:19
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Yeah, Tomino's said Victory Gundam was him attempting to kill the Gundam brand. That's probably partly exaggeration on his part but spite is definitely one of the primary emotions behind Victory. It's the same reason G is the way it is. Tomino specifically recommended Imagawa and told him to go hog wild no matter what Bandai told him to do because he was fed up with the UC mining and how Victory and F91 turned out.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:20
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chiasaur11 posted:Spite, if memory serves. gimme the GOD drat candy posted:every aspect of victory was inspired by depression, spite, or tomino's recurring weirdness about women. And yet it's one of the best of the series.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:20
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well, that's an unusual opinion.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:21
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People came around on ZZ, one day they'll realize Victory is in fact a great series.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:23
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Very few of the UC shows can really be considered outright bad. Victory and F91 are definitely the weakest Tomino series but they still have redeeming qualities that make then worth a look. There are stinkers but they're not Tomino works.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:23
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ill definitely say i find victory more interesting than most other UC series. 'good' is a much different question tho
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Oct 20, 2021 06:25
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Gaius Marius posted:People came around on ZZ, one day they'll realize Victory is in fact a great series. god willing
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Oct 20, 2021 06:33
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Shakti trying to plant seeds with a crying baby on her back while a war involving child soldiers rages around her is Tominos late 80's early ninties worldview distilled into a single scene.
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Oct 20, 2021 06:34
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victory rocks. it's rough but that's why it's more interesting than other UC things
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Oct 20, 2021 06:44
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Victory is loving terrible in almost every way and only worth watching for how unhinged and insane it is.
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Oct 20, 2021 10:15
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Gaius Marius posted:People came around on ZZ, one day they'll realize Victory is in fact a great series. I doubt it. Even now, ZZ's just considered part of the UC watch list rather than being treated as one of the shows you get into watching the UC for, and it gained that status in part thanks to a massive hit OVA series having the most popular character's backstory be that she was involved in the Neo Zeon war. (Even then, it landed lower in the big Gundam poll than the tv airing of Unicorn.) Victory Gundam doesn't have that boost, and it doesn't have anything on the current UC Next 100 schedule seeming to focus on it. Sure, it's in SRW 30, but Narrative is in 30, and Narrative is terrible. I only managed three or four episodes into that death march, in addition to checking out some later scenes and episodes, and for the most part, it's bad.
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Oct 20, 2021 11:23
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Argas posted:The four years between 0083 and 0087 were not kind to Bask Om.  The years had nothing to work with.
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Oct 20, 2021 11:30
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Power corrupts.
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Oct 20, 2021 11:31
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Nessus posted:"Not giving up your ship" seems like it could have multiple semiotic meanings rather than "stupidity." The real question is whether or not she would have run sideways or forwards if chased by a giant rolling battleship-motorcycle. I don't think it does, personally. Especially when Cima was trying to make a deal with the Federation that involved potential war-crimes (or at least, setting them up and killing civilians in the process) for amnesty anyway only a few years later. You could be generous and say that experience humbled her, but it's just as easy to interpret it as Cima placing more value on her ship or her own ownership of a ship than on human life or a clean conscious. Jobbo_Fett posted:I assume that air would be expelled at an incredibly fast rate; I have never been in such a situation. I recall someone on /m/ did the calculations for the volume of air inside an O'Neill cylinder (a cylinder 6km across and 32km long), compared to a how much air even a hole a mobile suit could fly through would release per second and the result was that it would take literal days for the colony to empty and that most people living in it probably wouldn't even notice a difference in air quality for a good while. There would certainly be more than enough time to patch it up before doing a full repair. I don't know that Gundam has ever shown that, but at the same time, most colony assaults don't contradict it. When the single colony in Side 7 has a hole blown in it in the beginning of 0079 for instance, the only people we see who are affected are situated in the direct vicinity. The cylinder is evacuated in the end, but they are trying to evacuate because of the battle even before that happens and it's only a small population of a few hundred people mostly centered on a military installation from what little 0079 shows us. chiasaur11 posted:One of the perks of being in the Titans is you automatically outrank regular Federation personnel. For most of the Titans, this leads to a certain amount of abuse of power. I feel like I've seen something implying Tomino was considering pushing Emma as a love interest for Kamille at one point. I know the "Zeta Gundam Proposal" on Zeonic talks about Emma being responsible for Kamille and Fa growing apart in that original version, but that's rather ambiguous wording and could just mean an infatuation on Kamille's part even if you want to take it romantically, but I'm sure I've seen something at some point that had a more definitive statement on it. Mind you, Tomino may originally have envisioned Emma as younger in any version where they were possible romantic partners too. Midjack posted:Japan likes ronin who go on a suicide mission to avenge their dead lords while America likes sassy space milfs. Just to back this up a little, Gato placed 8th in NHK's big Gundam poll from a few years back. Cima was 47th. She did place second highest of the 0083 cast (Haman is listed as being part of 0083 too, due to her cameo but that hardly counts), while Kou placed 66th and South Burning placed 83rd; but there's still a big difference between 8th and 47th. That said, I would personally doubt that Cima is notably popular in the America or the West in general. I'm aware she has some rather vocal fans in the community, but I rarely see her talked about in general and when she is it's often tinged with some indication the people saying so mostly just like her cause they find her hot rather than because they like her characterization or anything. MechaX posted:It didn't help but in Kou's case, but I think that was more due to the Unit 03 theft and probably being caught *in* Unit 03 by Bask himself. Synapse may not actually have been executed. He was originally executed according to a report in the movie version of 0083 according to Japanese Wikipedia, which was played in theaters before the final episode of the OVA, but his death was cut from the actual OVA and even the home release of the movie. He's mentioned to have gone to prison in some pamphlets for the movie release too. Gaius Marius posted:People came around on ZZ, one day they'll realize Victory is in fact a great series. I don't know that I'd call it great, but I did enjoy Victory and loved the tense atmosphere the show often created, where the League Militaire were a small, scrappy band of civilians constantly running and hiding from the much bigger Zanscare. I remember loving the fact they didn't even have a ship for a while, and had to launch from some flat bed trucks because they were so underfunded in general.
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Oct 20, 2021 13:36
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Victory and Narrative are just as bad as each other, Narrative having the upside of being short and Victory being so unhinged and hideous it’s kinda funny. Every single Zanscare design is hot garbage except maybe wheel
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Oct 20, 2021 14:35
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Victory is bonkers but lets stop trying to act like it's "good". It has a very sloppy plot structure, is exceedingly wasteful and mean to the characters, and frankly doesn't have a cohesive theme outside of Jack from LOST's ethos of WE HAVE TO GO BACK (to kasarelia)
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Oct 20, 2021 14:54
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Narrative's themes of betrayal and the disillusionment brought on by living in the shadow of who people think you should be are good and should have been explored further. Instead, Jona and Zoltan don't get much of anything to work with and Michele gets relegated to a supporting role when she really should have been the protagonist. And then the whole thing is mangled by editing and story structure decisions that are so bad that they might be the worst in the franchise if Twilight Axis didn't exist.
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Oct 20, 2021 15:11
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Victory is bonkers but lets stop trying to act like it's "good". It has a very sloppy plot structure, is exceedingly wasteful and mean to the characters, and frankly doesn't have a cohesive theme outside of Jack from LOST's ethos of WE HAVE TO GO BACK (to kasarelia) When I watched Victory it seemed as if it was going for something about the exploitation of women at times but the Tomino got in the way.
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Oct 20, 2021 15:14
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chiasaur11 posted:I only managed three or four episodes into that death march, in addition to checking out some later scenes and episodes, and for the most part, it's bad. for the most part, Victory is good. There are some themes and executions of those themes that some people aren't fond of, and the out of order beginning certainly starts the show off on the wrong foot, but at it's core it's a solid show. The Notorious ZSB posted:Victory is bonkers but lets stop trying to act like it's "good". It has a very sloppy plot structure, is exceedingly wasteful and mean to the characters, and frankly doesn't have a cohesive theme outside of Jack from LOST's ethos of WE HAVE TO GO BACK (to kasarelia) I thought Victory's main theme was that since women can create life, when they instead go off to war and kill people, that's like an inversion of the natural order, the world gone insane.
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Oct 20, 2021 15:17
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Didn't Tomino say something like "please do not watch Victory" in the booklet for the Blu-ray edition of it or something?
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Oct 20, 2021 15:49
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RevolverDivider posted:Victory and Narrative are just as bad as each other, Narrative having the upside of being short and Victory being so unhinged and hideous it’s kinda funny. Hey now, Zanscare's dogu-inspired mechanical designs were genuinely pretty cool, especially with the creepy way their 'eyelids' open. The Shokew series are beautiful, and the Gottrlattan is a genuinely stylish and unique endgame suit.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:11
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wdarkk posted:Didn't Tomino say something like "please do not watch Victory" in the booklet for the Blu-ray edition of it or something? Yeah, but I think it was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek sort of thing, since you had to have the Blu-ray (I think it originally dates to the Japanese DVD release, since the story of it has been around seemingly forever) to actually see the source of the quote telling you not to buy it or watch it. For a while, like so many other Tomino quotes and Gundam stuff in general, it got taken out of that context and people presented it as Tomino raging against the show or something like that.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:17
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Zanscare's MS have an extremely strong and cool unifying aesthetic that is even more impressive because it doesn't rely on aping stuff that already existed in Gundam and instead invents its own villain style.fartknocker posted:Yeah, but I think it was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek sort of thing, since you had to have the Blu-ray (I think it originally dates to the Japanese DVD release, since the story of it has been around seemingly forever) to actually see the source of the quote telling you not to buy it or watch it. For a while, like so many other Tomino quotes and Gundam stuff in general, it got taken out of that context and people presented it as Tomino raging against the show or something like that. It's a really weirdly common thing for the western Gundam fanbase to take fabricated, out of context, or simply mistranslated quotes from Tomino and try to weaponize them against series they don't like. (I'm not saying wdarkk is doing this, because they aren't, I'm just thinking about the origins of "ha ha, TOMINO SAID DON'T WATCH THIS SHOW"). Kanos fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 16:18
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There tends to be a lot of the same rumor mongering about Mamoru Nagano, and while there aren't as many rumors as such about Shoji Kawamori, there are certainly persistent ideas about him like that he's high as gently caress for a lot of his stories. I think it's just people filling in the blanks using any available ideas or even thoughts to personalize creators there's very little information on in general; with those being some of the bigger ones that stay out of the limelight. I'd assume Kojima and a few other Japanese creators in other media or genres I'm not as familiar with probably get a lot of the same talk.
tsob fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 16:37
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Lollers at "Victory is solid at its core" and "it actually thinks women are important" as takes you have on Victory. The women are abused, used, and discarded by both sides at such an egregious rate that if that were true it does a very poor job of showing it. In a setting where women have largely been able bodied equals to men (in terms of jobs and story roles of importance), it's a very odd stance to say suddenly in UC 160 women in war is bad and that's what Tomino meant. The pieces are there, but they are not actually the focus. Zanscare is a women driven organization we think, but we only see it as psycho mama worship in the last 10 or so episodes. It isn't established and isn't really given ground to be developed and is instead a vehicle for yet more violence against women. Victory is a bad show on most levels. Small credit for a couple of the MS designs, otherwise I could leave all of it (and have) and not feel bad about it. You are missing exactly nothing skipping out on Victory. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 16:52
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katejina met a lovely Char and became the joker, this is a good character arc
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Oct 20, 2021 16:57
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Zanscare has great mech designs. WHERE'S MY ABIGORBINE KIT BANDAI!?
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Oct 20, 2021 16:58
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dudermcbrohan posted:katejina met a lovely Char and became the joker, this is a good character arc Katejina didn't meet a Char; she is A Char. She met a Garma.
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Oct 20, 2021 16:59
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You should try paying attention to the show you're watching next time. Because it's obvious you weren't with Victory
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Oct 20, 2021 16:59
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tsob posted:Katejina didn't meet a Char; she is A Char. She met a Garma. Don't drag garma by comparing him to chronicle, that's cruel
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Oct 20, 2021 17:00
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Gaius Marius posted:You should try paying attention to the show you're watching next time. Because it's obvious you weren't with Victory Oh we're gonna start accusing others of "not paying attention"? Because it does a poor job of showing whatever themes you want to pull out of it/ascribe to it? It's a bad piece of Gundam. It's mean, meandering, and has no focus. I paid attention and I didn't like what it was selling. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 17:00
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I think Victory has always been destined to be one of those shows like G-Reco or to a lesser extent Zeta Gundam where you either like it or you hate it with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. I don't think I've ever talked with someone who's seen Victory and has a completely neutral opinion on it.
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Oct 20, 2021 17:02
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Gaius Marius posted:Don't drag garma by comparing him to chronicle, that's cruel Garma was an arrogant, entitled twit. He deserves any dragging he gets.
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Oct 20, 2021 17:23
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