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 e: oh goody, I get to use the other one 
Zetsubou-san fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 11:21
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https://twitter.com/dril/status/660644922744262656?lang=en
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Oct 20, 2021 11:49
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“Look I’m just asking questions and raising issues… I guess you have a lot of growing up to do.”
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Oct 20, 2021 12:19
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Jesus Christ, the amount of loving crybabies in the replies to that. I'm nonplussed by the argument that the government "can't force you to get a vaccine." Aside from the fact that it's not forcing you - just deliberately making life hard for you if you don't - the government can and does force you to do all kinds of things, like go to school and pay taxes and participate in capitalism and not smoke weed. Well within living memory, for basically anybody born between 1890 and 1970, it could force you to report to Puckapunyal at 0500 hours for basic training and then ship you overseas to get shot at. "Forcing" you to get a lifesaving vaccine is loving small fries.
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Oct 20, 2021 13:05
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yoloer420 posted:I don't think Idiocracy was an endorsement of eugenics. To me it seemed it was suggesting an inevitably, rather than a warning. Yeah, all the movie said was that the lower class were inferior right down to the genetic level and allowing them to breed would lead to a future where the entire world is intellectually impaired and at risk of total collapse. It's explicitly an endorsement by way of "warning" what will happen if the subhumans who didn't have the good judgement to be born to rich parents are allowed to continue to breed like the filthy disgusting animals they are. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Oct 20, 2021 |
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Oct 20, 2021 13:17
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The Peccadillo posted:It's going to be about how rude twitter has been and there is no longer any Civil Discourse Every time, it's their whole deal
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Oct 20, 2021 13:22
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Yeah, all the movie said was that the lower class were inferior right down to the genetic level and allowing them to breed would lead to a future where the entire world is intellectually impaired and at risk of total collapse. So pretty bang on is what you're saying here (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 20, 2021 13:34
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No. gently caress off with that classist bullshit.
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Oct 20, 2021 13:57
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Yeah, all the movie said was that the lower class were inferior right down to the genetic level and allowing them to breed would lead to a future where the entire world is intellectually impaired and at risk of total collapse. Apart from noting that it's a comedy movie, I took away that it was really throwing poo poo on the upper middle class who hold off from breeding whilst chasing career, market returns, etc etc. There was no recommendation to stop the unwashed masses from breeding, just a note that people are gonna keep loving. Yeah sure there are eugenic undertones if you're tuned into them but it was just a silly enjoyable movie for me. THE THIRST MUTILATOR.
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Oct 20, 2021 23:01
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Yeah, all the movie said was that the lower class were inferior right down to the genetic level and allowing them to breed would lead to a future where the entire world is intellectually impaired and at risk of total collapse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_obeR1OIm8
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Oct 20, 2021 23:38
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So who was behind the blind trust? Kerry Stokes? a Murdoch? Pete Theil?
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Oct 21, 2021 00:00
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I'm sure nothing will come of it, but it does seem like Scomo going against the speaker on the Christian Porter inquiry has some legs in the media. There's been quite a few scathing comments about the action in the news this morning, so maybe (hahahaha who am I kiddding) the government will be forced to do something?
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Oct 21, 2021 00:00
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Porter's out so they've already done the thing they needed to do. Give it a few days and it'll blow over. Columnists will trot it out in their "brutal" takedowns the week before the election to show how duplicitous the LNP are and the world will keep on spinning after they win again
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Oct 21, 2021 00:08
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https://twitter.com/TheShovel/status/1450948590436687875
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Oct 21, 2021 01:19
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freebooter posted:Well within living memory, for basically anybody born between 1890 and 1970, it could force you to report to Puckapunyal at 0500 hours for basic training and then ship you overseas to get shot at. "Forcing" you to get a lifesaving vaccine is loving small fries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Australia Tafari Walton was shot by police who were seeking to question him over the stabbing murder of his former partner, 27-year-old Gabriella Thompson. The 22-year-old had been released on parole and bail seven weeks earlier. The inquest, which began in January 2021, heard that Walton had repeatedly yelled at police to shoot him and had lunged towards an officer with a 10cm to 15cm knife in his hand. ISSUES RAISED Injured in custody, force used, mental health / cognitive impairment.
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Oct 21, 2021 02:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDGM76KoEk
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Oct 21, 2021 05:06
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Cartoon posted:While I agree with the broad thrust of your arguement your conscription facts are wrong. Prior to Federation the chances of the National government doing anything where slight. Oh yeah I forgot we didn't have conscription in WWI. Fair enough, anyone born between 1920 and about 1950.
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Oct 21, 2021 05:59
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freebooter posted:Oh yeah I forgot we didn't have conscription in WWI. Fair enough, anyone born between 1920 and about 1950. Not to argue against your point, but an interesting factoid is that conscripted troops could not be deployed overseas prior to Vietnam. The caveat was that PNG was considered Australian territory (we gained it as a protectorate when Treaty of Versailles divvied up German possessions after WWI) and so conscripts could be deployed to Kokoda and surrounds.
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Oct 21, 2021 06:29
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Huh - I remember reading about that but thought it was something that got scrapped fairly quickly as the war progressed, but reading up on it now and apparently not. Anyway conscription is the most obvious example but even aside from that it's like... all of capitalism and lovely jobs and society, you know? The state can actually coax you to do pretty much whatever it wants, having a cry about getting a needle is just weird. edit - also since the whole "MY BODY PERSONAL CHOICE" thing is universal, the conscription argument works better in other countries. If anything it would appear that Australia has long been a bastion of liberty on that front!
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Oct 21, 2021 06:37
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quote:Hundreds of thousands of retail workers will be required to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19, with major supermarkets Woolworths, Coles and Aldi announcing plans to roll out vaccination mandates. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-21/woolworths-coles-aldi-to-roll-out-vaccine-mandates-for-staff/100556872
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Oct 21, 2021 06:57
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freebooter posted:Jesus Christ, the amount of loving crybabies in the replies to that. Either trolls, bots, or people who were already liberal voters- No loss. Considering the entire liberal party can fit into a Toyota Camry, I'd say the ALP are on the right track. Lolie posted:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-21/woolworths-coles-aldi-to-roll-out-vaccine-mandates-for-staff/100556872 Watch the libertarian "free marketeers" juggle this one- Because it involves private companies exercising their rights as corporations
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Oct 21, 2021 08:33
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freebooter posted:Huh - I remember reading about that but thought it was something that got scrapped fairly quickly as the war progressed, but reading up on it now and apparently not. Yeah it's a commonly misunderstood state of affairs that as a member of society we tacitly agree to forgo freedoms from time to time for the continual functioning of society. Things such as by using roads, you agree that you are subject to being stopped, breath tested, required to show a licence. Now nobody is forced to do that, if they choose not to drive (yeah public drunkenness offences aside etc etc). The state is not requiring vaccinations, but you won't get to access childcare, schools, other benefits. Or my schadenfreude favourite lately, idiots claiming persecution because Coles/Woolies/Bunnings won't let them in without a mask. It's a private business, they can establish any requirements for entry that they like. I'm in favour of a bill of rights, rather than the implied freedoms that are cobbled together and inherited through common law, but even absolute stated rights aren't guaranteed, they usually just guarantee against unjustified incursions, e.g. the right to freedom is not absolute, but a protection against arbitrary detention. Or more specifically, the state creating laws that permit arbitrary detention. Anyway, I am not a lawyer etc etc.
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Oct 21, 2021 09:16
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Capt.Whorebags posted:Or my schadenfreude favourite lately, idiots claiming persecution because Coles/Woolies/Bunnings won't let them in without a mask. It's a private business, they can establish any requirements for entry that they like. One of the most fascinating things at the start of the pandemic was the panic buying and the resulting crisis talks about logistics and supply etc between the government and Coles/Woolies. It just makes you stop and realise how much our food supply - the number one most important thing to keep society ticking - is almost entirely reliant on private companies that run supermarkets (a relatively recent invention) and on a supermarket duopoly (an even more recent development).
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Oct 21, 2021 09:24
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imo people (like the head of the Vic AMA) calling for anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated to be excluded from the public health system is bad
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Oct 21, 2021 10:44
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Solemn Sloth posted:imo people (like the head of the Vic AMA) calling for anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated to be excluded from the public health system is bad That's nice, but it's a simple vaccine. Either you take it- Or you're gonna hard a hard time entering ANY private business or hold a job in your private workplace. It's not just "government" here- Private corporations are also following suit with mandates. if you have a legitimate reason you shouldn't get it, well it shouldn't be hard to get a report from a specialist saying why. "because I don't want to" isn't good enough- No doubt plenty tried that excuse when seatbelt laws became a thing. A hospital is full of vulnerable people- And to allow someone who's had a dummy spit and refused the jab (risking the lives of others) into a hospital is dumb. Just wait until private insurance and medicare jump in and start adding mandates. (BTW we've all had enough of this poo poo, and we'd be all done by now if it wasn't for idiots spouting libertarian rhetoric, instead we're dragging this poo poo along another year because people don't feel like getting ONE jab) Cpt Soban fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Oct 21, 2021 |
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Oct 21, 2021 11:46
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Maybe I'm just small minded but the argument here is straightforward - you have every right to choose not to get a vaccine, in doing so however by being out in society you put everyone else at an increased level of risk and this is unacceptable, therefore, you are not allowed to participate. You can choose to sink half a case at lunchtime, but you can't drive home. The only reason it's a discussion at all is because a lot of people legitimately don't believe COVID is a real thing and they think if they get it without being vaccinated it'll be a couple of days of the sniffles and nothing more A more interesting philosophical question is what happens if we ever face a new pandemic that, for whatever reason, we can't make vaccines for.
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Oct 21, 2021 12:17
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Cpt Soban posted:That's nice, but it's a simple vaccine. Either you take it- Or you're gonna hard a hard time entering ANY private business or hold a job in your private workplace. It's not just "government" here- Private corporations are also following suit with mandates. if you have a legitimate reason you shouldn't get it, well it shouldn't be hard to get a report from a specialist saying why. "because I don't want to" isn't good enough- No doubt plenty tried that excuse when seatbelt laws became a thing. Ultimately no one should be excluded from health care no matter how much of a dum dum they choose to be. How we protect other from the actions of those dumdums is another question but as a society I firmly believe that *everyone* deserves care.
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Oct 21, 2021 13:03
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Solemn Sloth posted:imo people (like the head of the Vic AMA) calling for anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated to be excluded from the public health system is bad The AMA is a union and they are obliged to advocate for the interests of their members, in this case, the doctors and nurses who don't deserve to be needlessly exposed to the virus by dickheads. (Also he was clearly just making a rhetorical point)
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Oct 21, 2021 13:07
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hooman posted:Ultimately no one should be excluded from health care no matter how much of a dum dum they choose to be. How we protect other from the actions of those dumdums is another question but as a society I firmly believe that *everyone* deserves care.
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Oct 21, 2021 13:37
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abigserve posted:A more interesting philosophical question is what happens if we ever face a new pandemic that, for whatever reason, we can't make vaccines for. The collapse of society, probably.
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Oct 21, 2021 13:44
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hooman posted:Ultimately no one should be excluded from health care no matter how much of a dum dum they choose to be. How we protect other from the actions of those dumdums is another question but as a society I firmly believe that *everyone* deserves care. To tie in with the conscription comments above, it's worth noting that free universal healthcare was not a thing until the 1940s and was not a thing in Australia until (as I understand it, I may be wrong) the 1980s. The pandemic has been a wake-up call to people who think that history was over and/or was limited to watching skyscrapers collapse in New York. Awful global events can and will happen, and they will happen to you personally. Your society can and will require you to make unprecedented personal sacrifices at any given moment, as events allow. I don't think anyone should ever be denied healthcare within reason, but many people around the world over the past two years have been "denied" healthcare simply because hospitals were overloaded. When the vaccine is free and easily available and actively, desperately encouraged, I don't have any issue with triage. I don't have any issues with people who chose not to get vaccinated being prioritised below those who were, or below people who were in a car accident or whatever.
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Oct 21, 2021 14:01
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No one should be denied health care. I will go and pick up and anyone who calls in my ambulance and take them to hospital, vaxed or not. I even do it for no pay. There is also the fact not everyone can get vaxed for health reasons. You can either sit at a keyboard dispensing opinions or you can get out there and make the world a better place.
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Oct 21, 2021 14:28
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freebooter posted:To tie in with the conscription comments above, it's worth noting that free universal healthcare was not a thing until the 1940s and was not a thing in Australia until (as I understand it, I may be wrong) the 1980s. The pandemic has been a wake-up call to people who think that history was over and/or was limited to watching skyscrapers collapse in New York. Awful global events can and will happen, and they will happen to you personally. Your society can and will require you to make unprecedented personal sacrifices at any given moment, as events allow. The plan shouldn't be "exclude people", the plan should be "ensure there is enough care for everyone". Maybe we're talking past each other here.
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Oct 21, 2021 14:40
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No midnight in Melbourne videos?
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Oct 21, 2021 15:26
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Launchpad McQuack posted:There is also the fact not everyone can get vaxed for health reasons. Those people should be front of the queue for health care. The other kind of unvaxxed person who is a big dum dum should be at the back of the queue, they can have their free health care but everyone else who did the right thing should get their free health care first.
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Oct 21, 2021 15:35
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hooman posted:The plan shouldn't be "exclude people", the plan should be "ensure there is enough care for everyone". Maybe we're talking past each other here. The hospital system has ambulance ramping in covid zero states and is/was pretty badly stretched in NSW and Victoria during all three large outbreaks. If we get a UK/US size outbreak from a new variant we will have people dying in hospital corridors and gift shops too. Its nice to have a plan, but at a minimum it's going to take several years to build a healthcare system that can handle even NSW size covid outbreaks without abandoning elective surgeries and useful hospital stuff like cancer screening. That assuming state governments can chisel enough money out of the feds to pay for it. In the meantime unvaccinated people really need to know that if poo poo hits the fan they aren't going to be prioritised for care.
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Oct 21, 2021 16:02
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hooman posted:The plan shouldn't be "exclude people", the plan should be "ensure there is enough care for everyone". Maybe we're talking past each other here. There's no way to do that in every eventuality. Yeah that should be the goal and a lot more effort should be made to ensure that there's still enough care for everyone even in a crisis situation. But eventually there's going to be something that overwhelms the system and someone will be at the back of the queue. "Who should be at the back of the queue?" is a question that we wouldn't need the answer to right now if the government had its poo poo together but like I said there's always someone at the back of the queue, refusing the question isn't going to make the answer better.
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Oct 21, 2021 16:28
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Launchpad McQuack posted:No one should be denied health care. I will go and pick up and anyone who calls in my ambulance and take them to hospital, vaxed or not. I even do it for no pay. There is also the fact not everyone can get vaxed for health reasons. You can either sit at a keyboard dispensing opinions or you can get out there and make the world a better place. If you refuse to get a vaccine, you aren't getting an organ donation.
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Oct 21, 2021 20:35
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Antivaxers should probably be placed in rehabilitative mental care facilities until they're felling better and ready to participate imo
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Oct 21, 2021 20:55
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This discussion is pretty lovely because if we changed the topic to something like obesity, we would agree that rationing care is pretty terrible - even if the majority of this country is overweight. gently caress antivaxxers but "healthcare for only those who deserve it" is just libertarianism with extra steps.
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Oct 21, 2021 22:02
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