PYF terrible book: Freud molesting a thesaurus.

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Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

SimonChris posted:

This won a Hugo.

arghhh

# ? Oct 21, 2021 07:37

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# ? May 17, 2024 19:09

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

No me gusta. NO ME GUSTA

# ? Oct 21, 2021 09:23

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

whatta you mean "hes not a pedophile" :confused:

# ? Oct 21, 2021 10:16

SimonChris: Apr 24, 2008; The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.; Grimey Drawer

He works at a freighter that travels at relativistic speeds, so that decades pass on earth while the trip only lasts a few months for him. Therefore, he grooms kindergarten girls before take-off, so they will be adults when he returns. See, it's not pedophilia at all! I bet you feel pretty silly now.

# ? Oct 21, 2021 10:20

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

So much classic sci-fi is just the author's hosed up sexuality spilling onto the page.

# ? Oct 21, 2021 10:38

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

SimonChris posted:

He works at a freighter that travels at relativistic speeds, so that decades pass on earth while the trip only lasts a few months for him. Therefore, he grooms kindergarten girls before take-off, so they will be adults when he returns. See, it's not pedophilia at all! I bet you feel pretty silly now.

# ? Oct 21, 2021 15:37

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

Cool story bro

# ? Oct 21, 2021 16:37

Domus: May 7, 2007; Kidney Buddies

�that makes no sense. I mean beyond the creepiness, think about the people of the opposite gender in your early life. Would you want to date any of them in your 20�s, if they were the same age? Maybe a friend or a classmate, but the teacher? The postman? Your neighbor? Just having known someone as a child doesn�t mean you�re attracted to them.

# ? Oct 21, 2021 20:11

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012

and like not even the neighbor you see every day, but the neighbor who you interacted with for a short time as a child and then they moved away for twenty years, and suddenly show up looking the same and wanting to take you on a date?

there's a song i really like specifically warning about taking back people who just show up in your life again after being gone for years, lol

christ science fiction authors are hosed up

# ? Oct 21, 2021 20:28

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I sometimes feel like the concept of fiction is just bad for people because you umoor their brains from the constraints of reality and for a lot of them it seems to drift off into the worst places.

# ? Oct 21, 2021 23:57

Antivehicular: Dec 30, 2011; I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

John Varley is the same dude who wrote at least one novel about many-gendered gently caress-centaurs, and I'm really impressed that someone managed to find something of his skeevier than that

# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:00

IshmaelZarkov: Jun 20, 2013

Antivehicular posted:

John Varley is the same dude who wrote at least one novel about many-gendered gently caress-centaurs, and I'm really impressed that someone managed to find something of his skeevier than that

I'm not even going to pretend that I wouldn't read a book if someone came up to me and said, "Zarkov, this book is about many-gendered gently caress-centaurs.". That's an elevator pitch that guarantees curiosity.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:11

Antivehicular: Dec 30, 2011; I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

I just looked at Wikipedia for plot synopses of the gently caress-centaur books, and OH BOY:

Wikipedia on John Varley's "Wizard" posted:

During the trip, the reader begins to learn what drove Cirocco to her alcoholism. As the price for the discontinuation of the Angel/Titanide War, Gaea has made the Titanides dependent on Cirocco to have children. Only her saliva can activate the eggs they produce, so that they can be implanted in a host mother to grow. The responsibility for an entire race's survival is more than Cirocco can bear; with resignation from her position as Wizard impossible and suicide ruled out by her love for the Titanides, her only release is alcohol-fueled oblivion.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:13

John Lee: Mar 2, 2013; A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Those books are not as lighthearted as you might be led to believe

Pretty fuckin' grim, really

# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:18

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

MY WEIRD SEX IDEAS with a side of drama.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 00:18

Sham bam bamina!: Nov 6, 2012; ƨtupid cat

So the Titanides all have FAS, right?

# ? Oct 22, 2021 02:53

IshmaelZarkov: Jun 20, 2013

Antivehicular posted:

I just looked at Wikipedia for plot synopses of the gently caress-centaur books, and OH BOY:

Issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the gently caress-centaur author. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them"

# ? Oct 22, 2021 03:21

C.M. Kruger: Oct 28, 2013

oh yeah John Varley is kinda infamous.

(unedited chart, if you dare: https://www.tor.com/2019/11/20/the-sex-chart-that-changed-my-life-spectrums-of-sexuality-in-john-varleys-wizard/)

Also a goon in the SFF thread read a insane libertarian kangaroo piss fetish/genocide novel a while back:

StrixNebulosa posted:

Web of the Chozen is the weirdest loving book and I don't even know where to begin explaining it.

It's by Jack L Chalker, who is known for writing weird transformation into basically everything.

The concept is, in the far future humanity has mastered FTL and everything is a perfect utopia run by megacorps - everyone has universal healthcare and income, and it's only weirdos like our protagonist who wants to escape and do something different. (It's written from his pov so expect disparaging anti-socialism comments and "you're on the dole, ugh". That sucks!)

So he's a scout, and he finds planets that could be colonized.

So he finds a planet with an old colony ship in orbit around it, and finds a one word warning written on the wall: "Don't"

But he goes to the surface anyways, and rapidly his equipment melts away, and soon he begins to transform into a herbivore. A kangaroo/mule thing with no hands, that sees through sonar, has to hop everywhere, and speaks on a higher frequency.

He meets others who have been transformed, and their offspring... and he discovers that the species is forced to go into heat every year or so, and so there are LOTS of these weird herbivores on the planet.

I still haven't read far enough in to understand why this is happening, but it's SO WEIRD and vaguely disturbing and

StrixNebulosa posted:

I finished Web of the Chozen last night and it continued to be an absolute trip, and it asked some weird questions.

SPOILERS FOR THE WHOLE drat THING FOLLOW.

Our hero, who will spend the rest of the book transformed into this kangaroo thing, ultimately winds up being the near-death of humanity. How?

- After experiencing the heat himself and winding up with an egg in his pouch, he teams up with another kangaroo dude named Gregory. Gregory was one of the original Christian colonists on this planet, and he's also a biogeneticist. He agrees to help our hero talk to the AI in the colony ship.

- The virus that turned them into kangaroo THINGS is yes, made by an AI that's trying to protect humanity and give them utopia. By turning them into what it calls "Chozen", it's guaranteed that they have immortal lifespans, perfect regenerating health, easy to feed, and it can control their population by influencing when/how they go into heat.

- Also the virus can infect plants too and basically turn them into a super-fast farm. Any stretch of organic matter can be turned into a potato factory that will perfectly feed the Chozen.

- So the hero's ship was encased in web, because the Chozen can also spit web. yep. Anyways to dissolve the web you have to pee on it.

- The hero gets into his ship with Gregory and oh, gently caress. No hands. Fortunately - and this is really cool - he's psychically linked with his ship, and can remote pilot it with his mind. These parts of the book are cool, with the Choz figuring out how to use human ships and equipment with hooves.

- To cut a long story short, the AI is hostile, they call in human help, the humans go "what the gently caress" and while they fail to destroy the AI's ship, they DO nuke the Chozen homeworld.

- Aaand our hero, Gregory, and their two eggs are the last remaining Chozen. Dun dun dun!!!

- This is where I have to take a moment to reassure the reader that there is no incest. Because that happened off-screen earlier in the novel (as the heat cycle is uncontrollable) and Gregory is still really upset about it. There will be no incest for the Chozen, so help him god.

- Our hero and Greg convert their ship into a mini-Chozen home, with potatoes growing in the lower deck, and they raise their eggs and get two kids who they teach.

- They quickly realize that they need more space, and there are no safe places to land. Humanity will keep expanding and finding terraformable planets and they will nuke again, so... they hatch a plan to hijack a terraforming supply ship that'll have two people on it and supplies.

- To no one's surprise the two people on the ship are both women. One goes completely insane while being turned into a Chozen so they have to kill her, but the other one is the hero's true love.

- Capturing the ship and dealing with its robots and working its controls is written to be really fascinating and fun, as they have no hands and can't speak on human frequencies. This is also a neat way to see the kids interact with human stuff and that's neat alien psychology - as well as anti-human racism that the hero has to try and nip in the bud. Yes the humans nuked their homeworld, but they're not all bad, etc etc.

- So Gregory, now with the aid of (briefly) human hands (she has a day or two before she's transformed) figures out how to control the virus, influence the heat cycle (there will be NO INCEST, GOD DAMNIT), and speed up/slow down the infection cycle. They can make infinite food! They can disintegrate human tech, if they want to!

- Several years later, they have a thousand Chozen living on the ship, and they strike back at humanity by sending a raiding party to a planet.

- Cue a freaky sequence of radio clips from that planet as humans get, well, infected. World's worst pandemic, everyone turns into kangaroo things.

- And our heroes realize that... no. The humans will not negotiate. They will use this planet as a lab to figure out how to get rid of the Chozen. Which means that the only way for the Chozen to ultimately survive is to hit every single human planet.

- Which they do. The Choz virus is so awful that you can drop it basically anywhere on a planet and it'll infect everything given time.

- By the end of the novel our hero has a wife and kids and freedom to do whatever the hell he wants, there are only protected pockets of humanity, and the Chozen are everywhere.

- This is weirdly framed as better for humanity as... here we come back to the insane moralizing of the story. Listen up: if you're on welfare and on the dole, you're going to be lazy and do nothing. Most of humanity will be useless. Only a special few will decide not to be lazy and become scouts or whatever, like our hero did. The violent transformation of humanity into the Chozen killed off the weak ones, the lazy ones who couldn't adapt, so humanity got a "fresh start" with only the smart, adaptable humans surviving. Which is good for the species?

From my perspective, the only good result here is that the virus broke the megacorps, but even this is iffy as, well, the megacorps are depicted as being unambiguous good guys. They provide welfare, they don't war on each other (military exists because it's fun and because they might find aliens), they employ people to go scout new planets for expansion, and so on.

So - the Chozen are monsters, but also if you become one you are guaranteed immortality and good health. And with the aid of robots (which humanity has! and the Chozen can use!) they can get around the lack of hands problem.

In conclusion: absolutely bonkers book with an insane morality system. I devoured the entire thing in one day and am still thinking about it. Highly recommended if you like buckwild sci-fi stories.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 04:18

Inspector Gesicht: Oct 26, 2012; 500 Zeus a body.

These days if a writer has some weird-hangups and a transformation-boner they can just eject that poo poo on deviantart.

Actually, what non sci-fi books but attempts at serious literature read as the authors writing blatantly one-handed? Your Amis's and your Oates etc.

Inspector Gesicht has a new favorite as of 08:44 on Oct 22, 2021

# ? Oct 22, 2021 08:41

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Sounds too much like Chozo, and those mostly wholesome space burbs and good adoptive parents don't deserve that association.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 10:00

Inspector Gesicht: Oct 26, 2012; 500 Zeus a body.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Sounds too much like Chozo, and those mostly wholesome space burbs and good adoptive parents don't deserve that association.

Except for that one guy.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 10:23

Stupid_Sexy_Flander: Mar 14, 2007; Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?; Grimey Drawer

Inspector Gesicht posted:

These days if a writer has some weird-hangups and a transformation-boner they can just eject that poo poo on deviantart.

Actually, what non sci-fi books but attempts at serious literature read as the authors writing blatantly one-handed? Your Amis's and your Oates etc.

Only one I can think of at the moment is Johnathan franzen. I haven't read his books but I've read some interviews and seen some tweets where the guy is so far up his own rear end it's almost trumpian. Don't think he's sci fi, more like just general fiction. I remember some big hubbub where a character in a book he wrote discovered the meaning of life after playing with a turd from the toilet, or something to that effect.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 10:54

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

There's a ton of "hot young chick inexplicably into cynical old writer" stuff out there...

# ? Oct 22, 2021 12:20

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Inspector Gesicht posted:

These days if a writer has some weird-hangups and a transformation-boner they can just eject that poo poo on deviantart.

Actually, what non sci-fi books but attempts at serious literature read as the authors writing blatantly one-handed? Your Amis's and your Oates etc.

John Updike, according to reputation.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 12:27

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Runcible Cat posted:

There's a ton of "hot young chick inexplicably into cynical old writer" stuff out there...

There's already a stereotype of every lit professor wanting to write The Great American Novel about that.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 12:41

SimonChris: Apr 24, 2008; The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.; Grimey Drawer

Haruki Murakami is notorious for constantly throwing in scenes where his middle-aged protagonists need to have sex with magical realist teenagers. I am particularly fond of this scene from "Kafka on the Shore", where a college girl lectures the protagonist about philosophy while giving him a blowjob:

Kafka on the Shore posted:

"The pure present is an ungraspable advance of the past devouring the future. In truth, all sensation is already memory."
Hoshino looked up, mouth half open, and gazed at her face. "What's that?"
"Henri Bergson," she replied, licking the semen from the tip of his penis.
"Mame mo memelay.""
I'm sorry?"
"Matter and Memory. You ever read it?"
"I don't think so," Hoshino replied after a moment's thought. Except for the special SDF driver's manual he was forced to study�and the books on Shikoku history he'd just gone through at the library�he couldn't remember reading anything except manga.
"Have you read it?"
The girl nodded. "I had to. I'm majoring in philosophy in college, and we have exams coming up."
"You don't say," Hoshino said. "So this is a part-time job?"
"To help pay tuition."
She took him over to the bed, stroked him all over with her fingertips and tongue, getting another erection out of him. A firm hard-on, a Tower of Pisa at carnival time.
"See, you're ready to go again," the girl remarked, slowly segueing into her next set of motions. "Any special requests? Something you'd like me to do? Mr. Sanders asked me to make sure you got everything you want."
"I can't think of anything special, but could you quote some more of that philosophy stuff? I don't know why, but it might keep me from coming so quick. Otherwise I'll lose it pretty fast."
"Let's see.... This is pretty old, but how about some Hegel?"
"Whatever."
"I recommend Hegel. He's sort of out of date, but definitely an oldie but goodie."
"Sounds good to me."
"At the same time that 'I' am the content of a relation, 'I' am also that which does the relating."
"Hmm..."
"Hegel believed that a person is not merely conscious of self and object as separate entities, but through the projection of the self via the mediation of the object is volitionally able to gain a deeper understanding of the self. All of which constitutes self-consciousness."
"I don't know what the heck you're talking about."
"Well, think of what I'm doing to you right now. For me I'm the self, and you're the object. For you, of course, it's the exact opposite�you're the self to you and I'm the object. And by exchanging self and object, we can project ourselves onto the other and gain self-consciousness. Volitionally."
"I still don't get it, but it sure feels good."
"That's the whole idea," the girl said.

SimonChris has a new favorite as of 14:21 on Oct 22, 2021

# ? Oct 22, 2021 14:03

RoboRodent: Sep 19, 2012

I own Varley's whole space centaur trilogy, I've read it a couple times, and it is very insane, but in a way I find entertaining. Other things in the books include:

A separatist lesbian space colony where they teach girls that all men are rapists and I think they're all wiccans too
All the lady characters end up in relationships with other women except for the one from the lesbian space colony who ends up falling in love with a dude after she learns that not all men are rapists
Living blimps
Living fighter jets
A war between the centaurs and a race of "angels" who are weird bird people
A climactic scene in which a fifty foot Marilyn Monroe wrestles with a giant albino anaconda while a marching band of centaurs play John Philip Sousa's Liberty Bell March

I've never read anything else by Varley. I'm a little afraid to.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 16:10

LegionAreI: Nov 14, 2006; Lurk

RoboRodent posted:

A climactic scene in which a fifty foot Marilyn Monroe wrestles with a giant albino anaconda while a marching band of centaurs play John Philip Sousa's Liberty Bell March

Okay what? Do I even want to know the context for this?

# ? Oct 22, 2021 17:20

RoboRodent: Sep 19, 2012

LegionAreI posted:

Okay what? Do I even want to know the context for this?

It's been a few years, but iirc, the intelligence that controls Titan, the wheel-shaped structure in orbit around saturn where the series takes place, is insane and a little bit obsessed with old earth movies, so she makes a body for herself that is Giant Marilyn Monroe. By the third book, everyone's pretty much in agreement that she needs to die, like for real, because she's an insane god tyrant making everyone's lives miserable, so war is inevitable. During their attack on Giant Marilyn, a pet snake that escaped into the wilds of Titan in the previous book re-emerges, turned giant, white, and intelligent (for a snake) by its experiences in this weird world, and joins the battle. The centaurs are very musical, need to have a musical score for everything they can, and Sousa is their favourite Earth composer.

There are reasons for everything, but none of those reasons make the story any less insane.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 17:38

Captain Hygiene: Sep 17, 2007; You mess with the crabbo...

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

John Updike, according to reputation.

What's Updike?

# ? Oct 22, 2021 19:18

Ambitious Spider: Feb 13, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

SimonChris posted:

Haruki Murakami is notorious for constantly throwing in scenes where his middle-aged protagonists need to have sex with magical realist teenagers. I am particularly fond of this scene from "Kafka on the Shore", where a college girl lectures the protagonist about philosophy while giving him a blowjob:

Murakami is one of my faves, but when they finally translated his first two novels into english, the second one Pinball 1973 is about the protagonist (the same guy from wild sheep chase, and dance dance dance) being obsessed with pinball, and living and sleping with these two twins who mysteriously show up at his house one day. Like dude, come on. I also like(d?) Dave eggers a lot, but Hologram for the king was definitely his novel in the category. Schlubby business man keeps hooking up with out of his league ladies. Goddamn nonsense.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 20:11

Djeser: Mar 22, 2013; it's crow time again

I was reading a trash sci-fi book (The Right Hand of Dextra) where the concept is fine, it's pulp paperback trash but "human colony ship lands on dextroprotein planet and humans have to fight the native ecosystem to survive" is an interesting enough concept you could do a couple things with it. It's just that what the author chose to do is go hard in on making it about miscegenation and racism.

Now, I don't think the author necessarily likes these things. They're presented in a lurid and sensationalizing way, but the same way you'd present like, "Here's the real gritty version of what things were like in the past. People kept slaves and that was normal and you only think it's weird because of your culture." The viewpoints of the characters are meant to be morally ambiguous and kind of relativistic. There's a whole Wouldn't It Be Weird if... thing where the women are the warriors and expendable fighters where the men are frail and sheltered.

But while I don't think the author found what he was writing titillating it's so unpleasantly lurid about everything that I just stopped reading. Even if loving dextroprotein underage faun aliens with literally underdeveloped minds isn't his kink, he still felt it worth writing a book where there's a will they won't they thing between a seventeen year old girl and one of the ambiguously aged aliens who work as slaves.

On the plantation.

You see, in Roman times, chattel slavery was actually common...
:goonsay:

# ? Oct 22, 2021 22:30

BaldDwarfOnPCP: Jun 26, 2019; by Pragmatica

The Right Hand of Dextra is right up there with Manos: The Hands of Fate for redundancy.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 22:37

Antivehicular: Dec 30, 2011; I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

If we're still talking about skeevy litfic, I've always thought John Irving's stuff had an uncomfortable layer of slime on it. I've only read two of his books, but the fact that they both involved extended episodes where the adolescent protagonist learns various sexual and life lessons from a group of simultaneously earthy and pitiful Berlin prostitutes meant I was done.

Also Philip Roth wrote an entire novella about a dude who transforms into a giant, sapient single breast, and a non-trivial amount of that is just flashbacks to the protagonist's pre-breast life as a neurotic literature professor, so... that's a thing that exists.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 22:52

Captain Hygiene: Sep 17, 2007; You mess with the crabbo...

I know it's come up here before, but I read The Wise Man's Fear not too long ago, and god....the whole section where the main character wanders into the fae world and instantly goes from virgin to the greatest gently caress god the fairy queen has ever known its one of the cringiest things I've read.

I was mostly rereading those books out of curiosity after having a discussion about problematic elements in them, and they're very mixed. There are some things I like in them, but there are definitely tons of issues, and that's either the worst or at least the most embarrassing.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 23:05

packetmantis: Feb 26, 2013

RoboRodent posted:

[*] All the lady characters end up in relationships with other women except for the one from the lesbian space colony who ends up falling in love with a dude after she learns that not all men are rapists
[/list]

A lot of lovely writers have this kind of weird
"rubbing it in your face" type of creepiness and I hate it.

# ? Oct 22, 2021 23:09

Shwoo: Jul 21, 2011

I read a story in an anthology once where a man meets a little girl and gets caught up in her escape from evil government guys, and they're chasing her because it turns out she ages very rapidly. He eventually drops her off at his mother's, I think, to keep her safe from the bad guys, and later on he comes back and she's an adult, and you can guess what happens based on what thread this is and the John Varley talk.

Then she gets captured by the bad guys anyway, but I think manages to send him the kid she'd had by that point (he's the father), who maybe has the same condition as her.

Wish I could remember what it was called, or who wrote it. Ick.

# ? Oct 23, 2021 01:38

Cornwind Evil: Dec 14, 2004; The undisputed world champion of wrestling effortposting

The last few pages make me think of the one "Geek Social Fallacy /r Sex" that I remember offhand.

quote:

GSFS 2: The weirder your sex, the more enlightened you are.

The short of it is: geeks have a tendency to mistake �less mainstream� for �better,� and to conclude that sex that least resembles the mainstream is both the sexiest and the most virtuous. So polyamory gets seen as more enlightened than monogamy, kink gets seen as sexier than vanilla, and monogamous vanilla geeks get a big steaming pile of �I guess you�re just not very open-minded.�

Because nothing quite hits the jackoff trifecta as "Having the upper hand in the power game", "Thinking you're so much more advanced than all those other plebs" and "Women are just bitches."

# ? Oct 29, 2021 10:26

Capilarean: Apr 10, 2009

Some time back a gave a try to Dangerous Visions, and I'm honestly not sure if that's really what passed for transgressive or if it's just one big troll by Harlan Ellison.
Now, it of course has the infamous "In the barn" story, one that particularly stuck with me was one where this guy discovers the existence of a planet that nobody wants to acknowledge, it's found on no maps etc.
So he makes a trip there to see what's the big deal and finds a veritable utopia, everyone is healthy,happy prosperous and wise.

So do you know what the reason is for this prosperity?
It's free love.
Specifically incestuous free love. And very specifically dad-daughter incestuous free love.
And yes,the author had daughters,why do you ask? :barf:

# ? Oct 29, 2021 11:04

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# ? May 17, 2024 19:09

Brawnfire: Jul 13, 2004; 🎧Listen to Cylindricule!🎵
https://linktr.ee/Cylindricule

"I yearn for a different world, a better one!"

Oh man, me too.

"I'll write about what my ideal world would be like!"

Awesome, this is pretty-- oh

Jesus Christ um

We have... very different concerns I think

# ? Oct 29, 2021 14:08

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