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Once again the adventures of the Cleons prove superior to the other plots.
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Oct 22, 2021 13:25
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 04:23 |
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I donno if anyone posting this already but I chuckle every time I see the opening of this show and its almost the exact same thing as the fake Foundation TV intro someone put out 6 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwhbMz-CgZ8
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Oct 22, 2021 14:29
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i can't tell if the comments are being sincere or not I just hate that form of intro. Could be any space show. Hell if I didn't know any better, it could be for The Expanse. I skip it every time. Do we have a name for this style of "vaguely related objects and unidentifiable people with swelling music and floating credits" intro?
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Oct 22, 2021 15:02
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Aren’t nearly all prestige tv intros made by the same company?
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Oct 22, 2021 15:07
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Art of the Title covers a ton of them.
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Oct 22, 2021 15:19
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Nybble posted:i can't tell if the comments are being sincere or not To be fair, this show could have been named any other space show. It has very little to do with the foundation
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Oct 22, 2021 15:36
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Mokotow posted:Once again the adventures of the Cleons prove superior to the other plots. This episode was my favorite so far and its was almost entirely new material. The emperor being unable to flirt without giving his crush the opportunity to murder him is cute. Middle Cleon getting owned by the salt priestess is great content. I am starting to get attached to these characters. They seem to have combined the first and second crisis. This means we might not see mayor Hardin, they could skip straight to the traders plot next season I hope this show goes on for 10 seasons, its fantastic.
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Oct 22, 2021 15:57
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Empire just standing there and getting effectively clowned on for 5 minutes was nice and the actress sold the poo poo out of her speech. Demerzel bowing down at the end almost like she couldn't control herself was fantastic. Hugo once again proving himself as just the best. Everything else was OK although I will hand it to last week's posters that the Anachreons parking all their three ships in unstable ground next to a bunch of explosives is some lazy rear end writing.
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Oct 22, 2021 19:21
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'Hari said the entire galaxy can pivot around the actions of an individual' no he bloody didn't, its the exact opposite of what he said. Psychohistory works precisely because this is NOT true!
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Oct 22, 2021 19:24
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Rutibex posted:This episode was my favorite so far and its was almost entirely new material. The emperor being unable to flirt without giving his crush the opportunity to murder him is cute. Middle Cleon getting owned by the salt priestess is great content. I am starting to get attached to these characters. They seem to have combined the first and second crisis. This means we might not see mayor Hardin, they could skip straight to the traders plot next season Probably for the best; combining the crises saves having to recast Hardin or figuring out decent old-person makeup.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:02
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feedmegin posted:'Hari said the entire galaxy can pivot around the actions of an individual' no he bloody didn't, its the exact opposite of what he said. Psychohistory works precisely because this is NOT true! Nah. Psychohistory cannot predict the actions of individuals, but it is clearly dependent on them. Since it is math, changing the value of a single variable can have vast consequences.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:28
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Nah. Psychohistory cannot predict the actions of individuals, but it is clearly dependent on them. Since it is math, changing the value of a single variable can have vast consequences. Then it doesn't work. The entire point is that with a large enough body of people individual decisions don't matter in the long run. Otherwise the Cleons could do <x> and avoid the fall of the Empire for example. This is clearly explained both in the first episode and the first book. You cannot predict events centuries into the future if your maths can be derailed that way.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:55
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Nah. Psychohistory cannot predict the actions of individuals, but it is clearly dependent on them. Since it is math, changing the value of a single variable can have vast consequences. Nope. Literally, and I mean that, the opposite. The entire point is that the individual doesn't matter. Book spoiler. The premise of psychohistory means that it doesn't matter if Haut Rodric visits Terminus and lets slip that Anecreon means to take over Terminus and divvy it up into noble estates. It could have been someone else. It could not have happened at all. In the end, the social forces of the other 3 kingdoms outweighing Anacreon by itself is the important thing. And the mechanics of that happening isn't something a single person does. It's a complex social structure that has a cast of millions of people. In fact, this is why The Mule was such a big deal. In his case, a single person DOES change history. But it's entirely because of his special psychic powers.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:56
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I enjoyed the ep but I thought it was dumb that Anachreons’ plan to capture valuable prisoners with special spaceship expertise kicked off with indiscriminately murdering everyone in sight
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Oct 22, 2021 21:00
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feedmegin posted:Then it doesn't work. The entire point is that with a large enough body of people individual decisions don't matter in the long run. Otherwise the Cleons could do <x> and avoid the fall of the Empire for example. This is clearly explained both in the first episode and the first book. You cannot predict events centuries into the future if your maths can be derailed that way. Bolded the key qualifier. Individuals clearly have the ability to have substantial effect on the predictions of psychohistory. Seldon said that the collapse of the Empire could be postponed by hundreds of years by simply ending the Cleon cloning program. Establishing the Foundation would shorten the upcoming dark ages by literally thousands of years. Sure, the events still eventually happen, but it's simply false to claim that individual actions don't matter at all like CainFortea said. The entire galaxy can indeed pivot around the actions of individuals.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:01
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Wafflecopper posted:Lots of shirtless lee pace in the first 2 mins, good start The real secret to improving show reviews
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Oct 22, 2021 21:01
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feedmegin posted:'Hari said the entire galaxy can pivot around the actions of an individual' no he bloody didn't, its the exact opposite of what he said. Psychohistory works precisely because this is NOT true! If that was true there would be no Second Foundation. It seems people often like to make the same mistake with Psychohistory as they do with the three robotic laws, they take the premise as "truth" instead of realising that Asimov's whole point is that the story is about the flaws of the premise.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:01
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Bolded the key qualifier. Individuals clearly have the ability to have substantial effect on the predictions of psychohistory. Seldon said that the collapse of the Empire could be postponed by hundreds of years by simply ending the Cleon cloning program. Establishing the Foundation would shorten the upcoming dark ages by literally thousands of years. Sure, the events still eventually happen, but it's simply false to claim that individual actions don't matter at all like CainFortea said. The entire galaxy can indeed pivot around the actions of individuals.  I don't think that's what they meant there like at all, but sure fine. 'We can delay things a bit' is not vast consequences, again the whole point. The Foundation itself gets a pass precisely because of the invention of psychohistory.
feedmegin fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 21:03
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LinkesAuge posted:If that was true there would be no Second Foundation. It seems people often like to make the same mistake with Psychohistory as they do with the three robotic laws, they take the premise as "truth" instead of realising that Asimov's whole point is that the story is about the flaws of the premise. You might want to book spolier that. In that vein I am well aware. We haven't got there yet. Its certainly not what he's going to be telling First Foundation people because again, he's been saying the opposite, that's their whole raison d'etre.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:07
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feedmegin posted:
I mean okay, but who cares? It's not like the trader guy is going to be the foremost authority on what the Seldon Plan is or what it says. He's not even part of the Foundation, as far as I can tell. So quoting him and then going "well no, that's wrong, wow!" is just pedantic, and comes across as looking for things to take issue with.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:08
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Sure, the events still eventually happen, but it's simply false to claim that individual actions don't matter at all like CainFortea said. The entire galaxy can indeed pivot around the actions of individuals. I mean, I did explicitly post an exception. It's a very weird and plot relevant exception. But no, you're wrong. Individual actions in the normal course of psychohistorical predictions are meaningless. It doesn't matter if Joe Bob stabs Jimmy Cletus or marries him. At least in the context of the story as written in the books. I don't know what this show is doing with it. If it's trying to say something else, then that's just more reasons why it should have just been an original IP instead of calling it The Foundation.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:08
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:I mean okay, but who cares? It's not like the trader guy is going to be the foremost authority on what the Seldon Plan is or what it says. He's not even part of the Foundation, as far as I can tell. So quoting him and then going "well no, that's wrong, wow!" is just pedantic, and comes across as looking for things to take issue with. Which part of 'Hari said' did you miss?
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Oct 22, 2021 21:11
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My point is that "the entire galaxy can pivot around the actions of an individual" is not a false statement. I gave two prominent examples.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:11
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Two things I enjoyed about this episode: Salvor aimbotting like crazy while the Anacreon dudes just taking regularly aimed potshots at her is a subtle demonstration of Foundation's technological superiority, and Brother Day revealing that he's the first in the lineage to have colorblindness is a subtle sign of Empire's technological superiority starting to fade.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:18
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:My point is that "the entire galaxy can pivot around the actions of an individual" is not a false statement. I gave two prominent examples. I really think you are rather missing the point as to why that line is bizarre in context.. Technically it's true sure, Cleon could decide to order everyone in the Empire to dye their hair blue or something. Thats very clearly not what they actually meant and what they implied is wildly at odds with the whole premise of the show. I'm not being pedantic here, it just is.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:18
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LinkesAuge posted:If that was true there would be no Second Foundation. It seems people often like to make the same mistake with Psychohistory as they do with the three robotic laws, they take the premise as "truth" instead of realising that Asimov's whole point is that the story is about the flaws of the premise. This. Also don't forget that none of psychohistory's predictions are 100%. They are probabilities. Often very high probability but they aren't 100% because an individual in the right position can make a decision that drastically changes things. It's why the 2nd foundation is also created. The further the seldon plan goes in the future the lower the probabilities get. This is all canon in the books.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:36
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D-Pad posted:This. Also don't forget that none of psychohistory's predictions are 100%. They are probabilities. Often very high probability but they aren't 100% because an individual in the right position can make a decision that drastically changes things. It's why the 2nd foundation is also created. The further the seldon plan goes in the future the lower the probabilities get. This is all canon in the books. You may want to spoil that since there are people who are going to be reading the books because of the show, who may not know that kind of stuff. But yea, this. It's like Thorn keeps just ignoring the entire context of the conversation.
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Oct 22, 2021 21:59
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gently caress it double post. More book spoilers. You can even get into the conversation about how much fate matters. Because Asimov also tied in the Eternals to the Foundation, and this was the future specifically chosen by the Eternals to ensure mankind's supremacy for 100,000 years. So does an individual's choice matter when an organization that exists outside of time changed all of the course of human history to ensure that individual was there to do that thing?
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Oct 22, 2021 22:04
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Was this "humans can't process the folding of space" a thing in the books, too, or is this a cop-out in the series to avoid thinking up some spectacular space folding VFX sequence?
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Oct 22, 2021 23:26
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Combat Pretzel posted:Was this "humans can't process the folding of space" a thing in the books, too, or is this a cop-out in the series to avoid thinking up some spectacular space folding VFX sequence? The book explanation is The hyperspace jump effectively kills you, you cease to exist. But in every story except like one short story, the moment of time that is gone is so small that it's not able to be perceived by humans.
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Oct 22, 2021 23:47
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Wafflecopper posted:I enjoyed the ep but I thought it was dumb that Anachreons’ plan to capture valuable prisoners with special spaceship expertise kicked off with indiscriminately murdering everyone in sight Yea that bugged me a lot. I was expecting "Where is Bob Smith?" "Your goon shot him in the face an hour ago" "Where is the other Plasma Fermer?" "you killed him last night" to be in the conversation. I appreciate that kid not loving around with taking out that Hunter. Yea, don't let up, no mercy!
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Oct 23, 2021 03:39
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feedmegin posted:Then it doesn't work. The entire point is that with a large enough body of people individual decisions don't matter in the long run. Otherwise the Cleons could do <x> and avoid the fall of the Empire for example. This is clearly explained both in the first episode and the first book. You cannot predict events centuries into the future if your maths can be derailed that way. This is one of the fundamental flaws of the concept of psycho-history. After all Hari Seldon is one man making individual decisions
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Oct 23, 2021 04:31
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Maiden/mother/crone religion vs wee boi/hot dad/geezer empire. FIGHT!
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Oct 23, 2021 05:08
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Looks like the infinite Lee Pace machine is breaking down
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Oct 23, 2021 06:15
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Boy I sure am glad that this is gonna be one of those shows where I watch it for the pretty cinematography (when it's good) and computer graphics and not for any enthralling, smartly written plotting or dialog because y'all really, and I mean really, don't know how to keep your book spoilers from leaking all over this thread. I wrote something here about how I didn't like how the episodes and season were being paced but the more I tried to explain it in text, the more I realized that it's actually put together pretty drat expertly. The problem is that it actually felt like it was bad until I began to analyze it and saw that it's good. I have no idea what you'd call that but I've got it bad for Foundation.
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Oct 23, 2021 06:34
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Bargearse posted:Looks like the infinite Lee Pace machine is breaking down I guess him. Him being color-blind must mean something.
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Oct 23, 2021 06:43
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The editing in this show is so loving weird. I don't want to even call it bad, though it often can be, it is just so strange that they spent a bajillion on CGI but have such strangely disconnected shots. The start of the terminus plot this episode was the perfect example. A bunch of guys standing overlooking the obliterated flaming wreckage of a space ship. They say 'Well he must have survived, their ships are good at keeping their people alive' Hard cut to the officer crawling away from the same guys at the bottom of the same hill. How is he the only one who survived. How did they not see him when he was like... 50 feet away. Why is he crawling towards a gun when he appears otherwise not substantially injured. Did it fly out of his holster during the explosion that didn't hurt him? It was night time when the explosion happened, did they wait all night for the wreckage to stop flaming before searching? If so, why does he still look like the explosion was seconds ago? How long were they murdering the city for? They started at night and were still gunning down randoms the following morning? How is anyone still alive? Okay I'm done. Lee Pace still rocks and I continue to think I'd be much happier with clone arrested development than I am with the rest of the supposed A plot.
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Oct 23, 2021 08:07
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Why the gently caress are book readers still posting book spoilers without mentioning it’s a book spoiler For fucks sake you book readers are the loving worse
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Oct 23, 2021 10:51
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Small White Dragon posted:I guess him. Him being color-blind must mean something. Not really a spoiler but to be save: Seems pretty clear cut to me, he has unwanted mutations thus he isn't a "perfect" clone of Cleon and will behave/act differently which means you could say he IS a different person in general (outside of the philosophical discussion whether or not clone are the "same" person to begin with). This whole storyline isn't in the books so many personal speculation is that his gardener girl friend might become his wife/queen or at least give him a child and instead of clone emperors we get the vanilla flavor of Emperors which might lead to some better ones in the future but also with the potential for really, really bad (and unstable) ones. That would also open the door for a different actor as Emperor in the next season (as well as another time jump). I love Lee in the role but I'd guess you don't want this side of the story to get stale and there is only so much you can do with the clone emperors before it becomes repetitive and something big has to happen on that side of the story, ie there is a lot of forshadowing that a clone Emperor will at least die and/or the whole clone emperor system will crumble.
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Oct 23, 2021 11:17
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 04:23 |
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Lol it was absolutely critical, vital even, to their plan that they get a handful of people with unique knowledge from the colony, and yet they were just loving gatting people left and right. Who wrote this garbage?
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Oct 23, 2021 11:21
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