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For those that have the big Harbor Freight motorcycle lift table, does it get low enough when its flat to fit under a car? I'm considering getting one and the only way I can think to sanely store it is to put it in my space in the garage and pull my car over it. Is it narrow enough to fit between the tires and low enough to not catch on the underside? I drive an 18 Accord, so standard 4 door sedan ground clearance Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Oct 21, 2021 |
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Oct 21, 2021 22:20
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Martytoof posted:On the airbox -- if the hole was larger that would cause excess lean if I understand it. Would it make sense to try to obstruct some of the 3x3 for a moment to test? Not sure if that would make any difference or even worthwhile. It absolutely will make a difference. Blocking off the holes various amounts is the same as reducing all the jets in the carb simultaneously, give or take. If you block them off 50% and it runs better it'll tell you if it's running lean or not. But also singles are pretty poo poo under ~2000rpm and you can't really get around that because of physics. If you're barely opening the throttle you're still on the pilot circuit, roughness or not it should be able to hold a steady speed without surging. I'm still putting my money on pilot too lean. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Oct 21, 2021 |
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Oct 21, 2021 22:33
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:For those that have the big Harbor Freight motorcycle lift table, does it get low enough when its flat to fit under a car? I'm considering getting one and the only way I can think to sanely store it is to put it in my space in the garage and pull my car over it. Nm, I did not see “table” the first time I read this.
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Oct 21, 2021 22:40
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Slavvy posted:It absolutely will make a difference. Blocking off the holes various amounts is the same as reducing all the jets in the carb simultaneously, give or take. If you block them off 50% and it runs better it'll tell you if it's running lean or not. But also singles are pretty poo poo under ~2000rpm and you can't really get around that because of physics. If you're barely opening the throttle you're still on the pilot circuit, roughness or not it should be able to hold a steady speed without surging. I'm still putting my money on pilot too lean. Still waiting for YouTube to process the video so I can post, but in this case then would it make sense that I try to reduce the hole for the time being before I even think about monkeying with the pilot to troubleshoot? I can block it off with whatever, but at that point I should at least see a difference? Not sure how scientific I can do it, but if I just block it off altogether then it'll either be better or run rich (which may be bad as well I guess?) I have ZERO feel for what RPM the DRZ is in so I'm GUESSING I'm keeping it maybe just over 2000 at like, 5-10% throttle but that's just a big big big guess. e: 50%, missed your edit. I guess I can try that tomorrow if it's not pouring. e2: OK this is really embarrassing because I honestly feel like a brand new rider while I feel out this bike so I hope the thread doesn't judge too harshly, but I think I should post it anyway. I think I'm in the wrong gear or lugging the bike in 99% of this video because I'm riding it like I would expect the Ninja to react but also just making the wrong control decisions. More practice is needed to get a feel for this, which is cool because that'll just come with time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSKlIfMHTGk e: The two marks on my grip are for 50% and 100% some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Oct 21, 2021 |
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Oct 21, 2021 22:46
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Ok so maybe sleep on this and work it out systematically. Block off the holes. It doesn't matter if it's better or worse, as long as something changes. If it runs super rich when you block them, great! Means it was running lean before and you know where to go from there. The point is to provoke some kind of change to give you a better idea of what the problem is because I can't ride it for you and tell you it's lean or whatever. In the video it doesn't seem like you're revving it super slow most of the time, it should be able to hold a steady speed at that kind of rpm no problems. Also: adjusting the pilot is not a big deal or super complicated, it's a very basic thing everyone should be able to do. Even just finding out how many turns out it is will tell you and me a lot about what's going on as there's currently very little data to go from; random test rides are often not helpful cause they tend to muddy the water and confuse your recollection. I would start with blocking some holes and feeling for a difference. If it makes a difference, next step is unblock them and give it like half a turn more on the pilot to see if you can get similar results. If it makes no difference, next step is to check for vacuum leaks or other issues. Generally, lean running = unstable/hanging high idle, surging at low throttle openings, 'strained' feel at big openings. Generally, rich running = spluttery weak idle, delayed/fuzzy throttle response at small openings, boggy at big openings. The aftermarket jetting throws a massive spanner in the works - PO might be incompetent, jet supplier might be incompetent, jets might be made wrong, just many points of failure where things can go off the rails. In my shoes I would just whip out the carb and jet from scratch but I don't recommend this as you'll likely get more lost. Start with the pilot circuit and work up from there.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:07
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Cool, you rock, thanks. I'll run through these this weekend and see if I can start narrowing things down. I'm done monkeying with the bike today. I think getting it on the road was success enough for today, I'm still riding pretty high even with this uncertainty. I learn visually so I'll youtube a bit on adjusting the pilot on a DRZ this week and see if I can get some empirical data to report back with. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Oct 21, 2021 |
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Oct 21, 2021 23:11
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Martytoof posted:Still waiting for YouTube to process the video so I can post, but in this case then would it make sense that I try to reduce the hole for the time being before I even think about monkeying with the pilot to troubleshoot? I can block it off with whatever, but at that point I should at least see a difference? Not sure how scientific I can do it, but if I just block it off altogether then it'll either be better or run rich (which may be bad as well I guess?)  Hard to tell from the video but is the bike lurching while the throttle is held in place between 25 and 35mph? If so, this has to be a fuel delivery issue. Also check your chain tension.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:15
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Slavvy posted:The aftermarket jetting throws a massive spanner in the works - PO might be incompetent, jet supplier might be incompetent, jets might be made wrong, just many points of failure where things can go off the rails. In my shoes I would just whip out the carb and jet from scratch but I don't recommend this as you'll likely get more lost. Start with the pilot circuit and work up from there. Yeah I think this, aftermarket jets are a serious crapshoot especially if they are not original Mikuni or Keihin. The numbering systems the jet manufactures use are not the same, Dynojet uses a different numbering system than Factory, which is different than Mikuni, etc. I'd go totally back to stock jetting and work from there.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:18
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I like to think I was holding it steady but you're right, it is hard to tell. I'll say yes. Chain tension has kind of been something I meant to ask about. The manual says slack should be 1.6-2". So I take this to mean that when I push the chain up to its limit and down to its limit, any fixed point on that chain should travel between 1.6-2". Now this is super weird to me because at 1.6-2" the chain basically smacks into the rubber chain protector. Should I be adjusting the chain with that thing off? I think I'm at 1.6 but it is feels super floppy to be completely frank and while I'm not about to second guess the manual I don't see how that can be right. Does having a lower geared (41 vs 44) rear sprocket affect the recommended tension a lot? Because if so I may have a wildly out of spec tensioned chain to be sure. I'm definitely not in the mood to pull the carb to bits right now, but if it fails safety because of this I suppose I have to options -- do it myself or just pay the shop to fix it and start with a "clean" slate. I'm not sure what going back to stock jetting would do with the 3x3 and aftermarket pipe. The 3x3 I can for sure plug up, that's a non-issue, but I'm not really going to spend a bunch of bucks to go back to OEM pipe unless it's absolutely critical. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Oct 21, 2021 |
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Oct 21, 2021 23:20
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Way, way, WAY too much thinking. Try this: put your index and middle fingers stacked vertically between the chain and the TOP of the swingarm. If you can just stick them in there it's fine, if you can't it's too tight, if you've got room for three fingers it's too loose. Chain tension also has nothing to do with the surging problem, I guarantee it.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:22
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The chain thing was something I meant to ask about anyway so that's a good summation. I'm trying to do a lot of things step by step by the book right now so I haven't really thought about any folk shortcuts but I'm always happy to learn an eyeballing method for stuff like the chain.Slavvy posted:Try this: put your index and middle fingers stacked vertically between the chain and the TOP of the swingarm. Wait you had me until I re-read this. Chain and the TOP of the swingarm? Am I measuring the chain under or over the swingarm? I think I'm just not picturing what you're suggesting correctly. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 21, 2021 |
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Oct 21, 2021 23:25
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Martytoof posted:The chain thing was something I meant to ask about anyway so that's a good summation. I'm trying to do a lot of things step by step by the book right now so I haven't really thought about any folk shortcuts but I'm always happy to learn an eyeballing method for stuff like the chain. It's a method that works on basically every dirt bike. Forget measuring anything, just forget that poo poo completely, only insane hobbyists actually measure chain slack with a measuring device. Know what that guide thing on the bottom of the swingarm is for? It's so you can run a super slack chain without running off (compared to a road bike) because you have a foot of suspension travel for landing sick jumps yo. Checking the gap between the top of the swingarm and chain is a really quick and easy way to get it 90% right that bypasses sprocket sizes, chain guide shape, preload settings etc. It also compensates for body shape - fatties need more chain slack but they tend to have fat fingers so you compensate for that automatically  Two fingers vertically stacked, like you're asking for a double helping of whiskey, shove them between the chain and the top of the swingarm with the bike in neutral so you take up all the slack on the lower run. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Oct 21, 2021 |
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Oct 21, 2021 23:31
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I'm intrigued. I'll report back tomorrow, thanks!
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Oct 21, 2021 23:33
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Slavvy posted:It also compensates for body shape - fatties need more chain slack but they tend to have fat fingers so you compensate for that automatically It's genius 
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Oct 22, 2021 00:16
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Slavvy posted:It also compensates for body shape - fatties need more chain slack but they tend to have fat fingers so you compensate for that automatically Lol
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Oct 22, 2021 01:10
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Oh poo poo I misread that as index and middle finger (singular). I was like.. two fingers seems awfully tight but.. ok.. Glad I re-read. So three fingers 
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Oct 22, 2021 01:24
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"Gimmie three fingers of slack!" you'd say.
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Oct 22, 2021 15:29
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Martytoof posted:Oh poo poo I misread that as index and middle finger (singular). I was like.. two fingers seems awfully tight but.. ok.. What? No I said two! Stick two fingers between the top of the swingarm and the chain where they meet at the top, near the pivot. Where the hell did three come from??
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Oct 22, 2021 19:08
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Slavvy posted:What? No I said two! Stick two fingers between the top of the swingarm and the chain where they meet at the top, near the pivot. Where the hell did three come from?? What the hell, man, four fingers? Five fingers is way too slack!
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Oct 22, 2021 19:09
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I can't believe you told him 6 fingers of slack.
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Oct 22, 2021 19:14
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I regret saying it, I thought it would be super easy to comprehend and I realize my mistake now.
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Oct 22, 2021 19:18
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Please do not underestimate my ability to misunderstand a simple suggestion I looked up the back-of-envelope chain measurement and everyone seems to say three fingers so I presumed I misread what you suggested at first. I think I'mma take a break from bike posting for a bit. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 19:27
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It's not hard just adjust it to the standard 3/5th of an inch
Dog Case fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 19:38
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Dog Case posted:It's not hard just adjust it to the standard 3/5th of an inch Also, 15mm is probably the smallest chain tension I've seen. Most are 35mm-45mm range.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:12
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They know the sprockets will wear so fast that 15mm becomes 30 after one ride They know the chain stretches so much in operation that 15mm becomes 45 dynamically They know the engine will blow up long before chain tension is an issue so it might as well look tidy
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Oct 22, 2021 20:28
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I presume this is the pilot screw? (The recessed hole thing in the middle?) The one that’s impossible to reach with human hands and is right next to a hot engine? Is that the one I’m supposed to turn?   I can see why people replace these with extended pilot adjusters. I’d love to know how I’m supposed to do this without disassembling things. Is there a tool I can get or make or something? I thought maybe a ratchet with a flat bit but the bit is too wide… E: Oh gently caress there is but it’s like a hundred bucks goddamn E2: OK I just grabbed a quick 90 degree screwdriver bit adapter and a narrower bit. I think this’ll work. Does it make sense to troubleshoot what’s going on by figuring out what it’s set to right now, or should I just drive it in and adjust until it’s happy? I’m thinking of following this method for lack of anything better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd8GhVyiafk some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 23:09
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Playing with it randomly is a good way to get completely lost and make things worse. Find out how many turns out it is from the stop, you need to know to an accuracy of about a quarter turn. If it's somewhere between 1.5-2.5 turns it's probably viable. At that point, with the bike warmed up, turn it out (so richer) by a quarter of a turn and see what happens. If it's set to something really wild like less than one turn out or more than three, and you're certain there isn't a vacuum leak or other fault, the pilot jet size is either too big or too small depending on what you find. You can wait for your 90 degree screwdriver or you can loosen the carb clamps and rotate the whole carb clockwise a bit, it'll let you reach the pilot with a normal screwdriver. Turn the bike off before you do this. There is a post in the technical thread that explains how to do this stuff systematically, highly recommended!
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Oct 23, 2021 00:26
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Also be aware that if no one has adjusted it on your carb, there is a cap that needs to be drilled out. I don't think that's going to be possible without removing it.
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Oct 23, 2021 00:40
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On both of my bikes you can just barely get your hand in there and use a hex driver bit by itself as a super stubby screwdriver. The cylinder gets kind of warm but it shouldn't get hot enough to burn you instantly like the exhaust or something
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Oct 23, 2021 01:29
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Oh bones. I hope the carb is drilled out. Seems weird that someone would go to the trouble of jetting it and not adjust the pilot screw but who knows. I’ll throw the camera in there to see tomorrow. Hmm. Will check the thread you mentioned but I grabbed a right angle thing from home depot real quick so I’ll be good to go either way. E: Is the plug surface-level? It looks like the adjustment hole is hollow so possibly already removed?
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Oct 23, 2021 01:49
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It's something that appears to be common in America but I've only ever seen it IRL a couple of times, if there's a visible hole there you're fine and don't need to drill anything.
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Oct 23, 2021 02:00
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If I recall correctly you can loosen the clamps on the intake and air box boots and rotate the carb whole installed, making it easier to get to the a/f screw One of my bikes did that, I think it was the DRZ
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Oct 23, 2021 02:50
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Yeah those are the only two things holding it down IIRC — I removed the vacuum line to the original petcock (sealed with vacuum nipple) and I guess the throttle cable is technically still connected but that’s flexy and so are the other hoses hanging off I think (??) Anyway, I got that 90 degree turnamajigger so I’ll try it tomorrow either way. If I can’t make heads or tails of why it is or isn’t turning then I’ll try to rotate the carb body. The screw is standard, clockwise to close, right? some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 03:06
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Martytoof posted:The screw is standard, clockwise to close, right? Correct
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Oct 23, 2021 03:10
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Random note on those plugs: On my newest bike the plug that appeared to be a rounded dome was actually the base of the screw like they inserted it and then cut/rounded it off. I was able to carefully cut a slot into it which turned it back into a functional screw.
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Oct 23, 2021 03:15
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Dog Case posted:Random note on those plugs: On my newest bike the plug that appeared to be a rounded dome was actually the base of the screw like they inserted it and then cut/rounded it off. I was able to carefully cut a slot into it which turned it back into a functional screw. Those are called D screws and there is a special, very flimsy tool for turning them. They are so, so, so stupid of an idea that it's making me angry just writing the words.
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Oct 23, 2021 03:19
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Is it so you can know how far the screw is turned without backing it out? I guess you’d have to know where it started for that to work but I’m not sure why else a screw like this exists.
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Oct 23, 2021 03:48
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Toe Rag posted:Is it so you can know how far the screw is turned without backing it out? I guess you’d have to know where it started for that to work but I’m not sure why else a screw like this exists. It exists to gently caress me off, and to make pilot screws adjustable in the case of warranty repairs while still adhering to the fig leaf of not being user serviceable because emissions blah blah You can't tell how far it's adjusted at all, in fact it's worse than a normal one cause you don't even really get quarter turn resolution.
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Oct 23, 2021 04:27
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This wasn't even D shaped. CSC is in California so I'm pretty sure this was meant to be completely tamper resistant for reasons
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Oct 23, 2021 06:32
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Ok yeah, first of all: Second of all, that is a breakaway/shear head screw, they are commonly found on ignition switches and car steering columns. It starts off life as a normal screw with a really narrow neck, when you torque it up the head breaks off at the weak point and presto, tamper resistant screw. How in the actual gently caress this is meant to work with a brass screw that's meant to stop turning before meeting any resistance I don't know. How they set the pilot after breaking it off I don't know. Why you would ever do this on a pilot screw is so far beyond my ability to imagine that I can only assume you bought your bike from Cthulhu ph'tagn motors and the frame features non euclidian geometry and the engine fins drive you to insanity if you stare too long.
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Oct 23, 2021 07:04
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