(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I don't know if that point is mythical -- Marx clearly thought that Germany was just about there while he was writing, and (I guess in Lenin's defense) having continental Europe go communist shortly after the Russian revolution would have at least given them a path towards modernizing Russia without having to build literally everything in-house, which would likely have done a lot towards making and keeping the state and party an expression of the people. Pentecoastal Elites posted:and FWIW the Chinese communist dream isn't dead yet. I'll admit it's kind of a long shot, but the idea is that you let capitalism modernize the country but you keep it on a leash, then as it enters its terminal crisis you get the state to lop of the head and let everyone know it's communism time. It's fair to be incredibly skeptical of this actually working but at least that's the theory. truly from the bottom of my heart i pray to al'Ah that this is the true future of their path, but ive got an assload of doubts hanging around my neck. i do not doubt the fact that both cuba and china have done the best they conceivably couldve given their material conditions, but the question remains: what next? do the existing socialist states of the world really have a vision for the future? oh god adam curtis has taken over my mind pls sent hlp
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Oct 23, 2021 18:48
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| # ? May 24, 2024 02:31 |
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I don't think China's self-modernization lead to stagnation at all! Unless you're talking about world communism, to which I'd answer that I think post-WWII, or at the very least after the fall of the USSR, literally everything from everyone, state actor or otherwise, is contingent on the collapse of global capitalism. I don't think there's any way around it. It's fully entrenched and the only reason we're not staring down the barrel of 100,000 years of capitalism is that it is inherently unstable and will fully and completely collapse. usual caveats about it happening soon enough that there's some scrap of biosphere left to ride out the next several millennia etc. etc.
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Oct 23, 2021 18:58
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I don't think China's self-modernization lead to stagnation at all! oh da babylon be fallin, no doubt about that. i pray that i be proven wrong about my doubts regarding CCP's revolutionary potential, but can ye rly deny that there are doubts?
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Oct 23, 2021 19:03
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whoa no not at all lol, you'd be nuts not to have some extremely serious doubts about this stuff
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Oct 23, 2021 19:07
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alright, completely gypothetically, say im startin a revolutionary organization in nigeria, currently falling apart on about... a 5-year timer, what book should i read? you know, to get me the ideological framework to organize state bureaucracies and so forth, to stop people from dying from poopwater and so on
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Oct 23, 2021 19:14
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and im only being moderately sarcastic here, i actually need the books. for you know, research because think we still do not know the path
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Oct 23, 2021 19:40
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read thomas sankara speaks then pray that the various international intelligence agencies don't murder you right as your programs get rolling. like, there's no shortage of ideas about better ways things could be, even given finite, broadly insufficient resources. feeding and sheltering everyone, having meaningful employment and functional infrastructure and improving the environment are not exactly contested aims. the big obstacle is that capital will send wreckers of every sort out to wreck any attempt to reify those ideas
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Oct 23, 2021 20:29
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a bunch of african countries had states that were dedicated to making things better, and were making tangible material gains in that direction, between the 60s and the 80s and all their leaders were assassinated and all their political structures got coup'ed
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Oct 23, 2021 20:32
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sankari sankara, may God bring you to his garden. have tea with granpa Gaddafi
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Oct 23, 2021 20:35
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see, i actually look at what china has done, and what they are doing, and i have hope for the future because i realized they are absolutely 100% serious on socialism by 2050 and every action they're taking and plan they execute is working toward that goal a very tl;dr of modern chinese history and of the entire CPC's run so far is that they tried all the shortcuts and none of them worked. they just have to build everything up and address the historical material conditions of existing under a western capitalist hegemony, and while that includes having to gently caress with capitalist forces, they are not beholden to them. you, indeed, cannot just press the communism button, it's a hell of a lot of work to get there and ultraleftism and focusing on pure ideological pursuits over addressing material concerns only wastes time
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Oct 23, 2021 20:47
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hot witch divorcee posted:see, i actually look at what china has done, and what they are doing, and i have hope for the future because i realized they are absolutely 100% serious on socialism by 2050 and every action they're taking and plan they execute is working toward that goal I have irresponsibly put all my hopes on China for the future. I am also going to start learning mandarin.
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Oct 23, 2021 21:12
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china owns
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Oct 23, 2021 22:18
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CoolCab posted:i loving hate to say it but it made it very evident that social democracy via parliament will not be allowed. he didn't even get in and the press, entire political class and entire business and establishment structure went ballistic, and haven't gotten better since. I assume anyone discussing this today in England is treated as paranoid and delusional. Lol Labour isn’t a monolith
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Oct 23, 2021 22:26
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yr new gurlfrand! posted:I have irresponsibly put all my hopes on China for the future. Same lol
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Oct 24, 2021 01:48
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https://twitter.com/eshaLegal/status/1452116671729180674
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Oct 24, 2021 04:37
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Oct 24, 2021 08:19
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Don't know, the transsib takes a week. Did they make him queue?
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Oct 24, 2021 09:58
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hot witch divorcee posted:see, i actually look at what china has done, and what they are doing, and i have hope for the future because i realized they are absolutely 100% serious on socialism by 2050 and every action they're taking and plan they execute is working toward that goal at least for me, the purpose of reading *sniff* ideology and debating it with you galls is in the pursuit of figuring what the gently caress am i going to do about the imminent collapse, in places where people whom i consider family are currently living. what is to be done? what is the path to avoid the terrible mistakes of the past?
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Oct 24, 2021 10:14
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lol
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Oct 24, 2021 10:14
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What the hell is historical materialism
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Oct 24, 2021 12:16
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stalin's only real mistake was dying
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Oct 24, 2021 12:48
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the stalai lama
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Oct 24, 2021 14:59
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Oct 24, 2021 15:01
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lollontee posted:at least for me, the purpose of reading *sniff* ideology and debating it with you galls is in the pursuit of figuring what the gently caress am i going to do about the imminent collapse, in places where people whom i consider family are currently living. what is to be done? what is the path to avoid the terrible mistakes of the past? If your goal is to protect and care for a relatively small amount of people (lets say, up to 50-60), blood relations and friends and loved ones and their families, its my opinion that you should be focused on specifically that. Which is to say, spending your time and energy on trying to reforge society into a shape that will do it for you is not a viable short-term project toward that goal. A more effective project may be trying to persuade and organize those people toward a communal living and working situation. We're all wasting enormous amounts of time and money and labor on individual living, and that's resources we're going to need for other things in order to weather the acceleration of decline. Picking a spot within everyone's sorta zone of cultural comfort that will be impacted in a less unfavorable way by climate change is also critical, but I'm not sure where you are geographically. By way of example, I'm an American, and the people I'm trying to organize mostly want to stay in America for a variety of reasons. So we're looking at acquiring property in an area that will be impacted by climate change in ways we think we could survive. Then its aggressively pooling as much resources and labor as possible to secure and develop that property before everyone else realizes the same thing about the same area and we get priced out. One of the biggest roadblocks I've encountered in trying to politically reorganize society is that we're loving broke and we don't have much to offer anyone beyond a new ideology and some weekend activities. We can explain to people until we're blue in the face that the reason their lives are in shambles is because of a tiny minority of property owners who wield outsized power to accumulate everything. But until we can offer a tangible, material alternative, it's just talk. So the conclusion that I've come to is that we put the cart before the horse.
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Oct 24, 2021 15:07
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Mr. Lobe posted:What the hell is historical materialism The "soul" enters the body at the exact time one begins to read the immortal science.
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Oct 24, 2021 15:15
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https://twitter.com/CatholicClod/status/1451917060079034377?s=20 Oh my god
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Oct 24, 2021 16:29
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it’s not very influential says moron of most cited work of the 19th century
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Oct 24, 2021 16:31
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lmao that the famous economist people love to call a marxist hasn't bothered to read marx
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Oct 24, 2021 16:34
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Yeah I found that interview when Piketty came up in the Doomsday Economics Zone last year. He states right up front in Capital In The 21st Century that he's not an anti-capitalist. Varoufakis at least has read Marx and has written about what he thinks is valuable about Marx and what isn't. I don't think he considers himself a Marxist or anything but at least he's engaged with Marxism. That may seem like tepid socde the value of Piektty's work imo is that he's actually using historical data to determine how economics works instead of using models like a lot of economists have for ages. very similar to someone else we know. Of course PIketty's idea of what "capital" is, is closer to "wealth" than anything else. Dreylad has issued a correction as of 16:52 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 16:50
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the best part of Capital in the Twenty-First Century is when Piketty says that he started out as a normal economist doing theory stuff and actual circles of economists loved his theory stuff and he was a rising star in the field of academic economics and then he had a moment of realization that everything he had spent his career working on was bullshit disconnected from the real world and the entire field of mainstream economics is intellectually bankrupt
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Oct 24, 2021 16:52
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vyelkin posted:the best part of Capital in the Twenty-First Century is when Piketty says that he started out as a normal economist doing theory stuff and actual circles of economists loved his theory stuff and he was a rising star in the field of academic economics and then he had a moment of realization that everything he had spent his career working on was bullshit disconnected from the real world and the entire field of mainstream economics is intellectually bankrupt weird I figured that while smoking weed and posting, maybe I should apply for an Econ PhD program
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Oct 24, 2021 16:54
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vyelkin posted:the best part of Capital in the Twenty-First Century is when Piketty says that he started out as a normal economist doing theory stuff and actual circles of economists loved his theory stuff and he was a rising star in the field of academic economics and then he had a moment of realization that everything he had spent his career working on was bullshit disconnected from the real world and the entire field of mainstream economics is intellectually bankrupt In the intro no less! And he attributes part of it to the fact that economists in the US have academic superstar status and like to work with pure math unlike the less well regarded economists in France who tend to work with sociologists.
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Oct 24, 2021 16:54
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Centrist Committee posted:china owns
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Oct 24, 2021 17:01
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yr new gurlfrand! posted:I have irresponsibly put all my hopes on China for the future. yeah, are xi’s governance of China books are good?
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Oct 24, 2021 17:08
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hahaha wow
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Oct 24, 2021 17:09
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Tooze, Piketty, and Blyth are all doyens of left-liberalism. When they go beyond "This is how everyone is loving up" and actually start recommending poo poo is when you stop listening.
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Oct 24, 2021 17:09
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Did you guys know there's no data in Das Capital?
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Oct 24, 2021 17:12
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mycomancy posted:Did you guys know there's no data in Das Capital? too much bullshit about the weight of linen and no theoretical profit curves I threw that poo poo in the trash
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Oct 24, 2021 17:13
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Torpor posted:what is the name of the psychological phenomenon of people coming up with excuse after excuse to not do something and they are impervious to rational thought; like what we’re seeing with covid and how it seems to track politically with covid denialists. first it was no big deal then HCQ then ivermectin then natural immunity then masks don’t work and vaccines spread the disease, it’s just a never ending litany of excuses to avoid dealing with covid and reality as it is but it also seems to be very political. i finally remembered the thing I was going to post in response to this post. one possible name for the thing you are describing is oppositional defiant disorder which psychologists think is something that only children have but which is basically "no gently caress you dad i won't do what you tell me" as your defining personality trait and maybe covid will finally convince psychologists that a large proportion of adults are also like this vyelkin has issued a correction as of 17:48 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 17:32
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| # ? May 24, 2024 02:31 |
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ed: woops, wrong thread while i'm here i'll mention i'm reading china mieville's october for the first time since it's been ages since i've read anything about that period; any followup recommendations are welcome, gracias Crusader has issued a correction as of 17:51 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 17:45
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