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I don't think that the title of a book published almost 70 years ago can be a spoiler.
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Oct 25, 2021 17:08
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It's the title of the book and it's been brought up by Seldon in this TV series, right? How is it a spoiler
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Oct 25, 2021 17:12
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Can we at least get the fact the Emperors are looked after by a robot leaked that starts a rumor going around Trantor so we get to see a press conference with a robot laughing at the rumor to show it isn’t true? I don’t want to be ruled by no robot!
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Oct 25, 2021 17:13
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The Salvor actor is as bad as Lee Pace is good, which is a lot
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Oct 25, 2021 17:36
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ElGroucho posted:The writing for the Salvor actor is as bad as the writing for Lee Pace is good I honestly can't tell if she's bad or good because there's been some glimmers despite the mess they're giving her to work with.
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Oct 25, 2021 21:00
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withak posted:I don't think that the title of a book published almost 70 years ago can be a spoiler.
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Oct 25, 2021 21:14
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Foundation 2.0
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Oct 25, 2021 22:28
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I think it’s kind of funny that some people (book readers) are still mad at Salvor looking directly into the camera and going “why am I special???” when it is obvious from the book’s sequels and prequels that they are bringing in the Second Foundation elements early. My guess, from what happened in the books, is that the SF is sending agents to manipulate events towards the planned outcome, which is why Salvor’s bf let her dad sacrifice himself to blow up the corvettes: it was the “best outcome.” Also, pretty cool that the Anacreons all flew Federal Corvettes from a Elite Dangerous! 
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Oct 26, 2021 00:21
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I think it’s kind of funny that some people (book readers) are still mad at Salvor looking directly into the camera and going “why am I special???” when it is obvious from the book’s sequels and prequels that they are bringing in the Second Foundation elements early. My guess, from what happened in the books, is that the SF is sending agents to manipulate events towards the planned outcome, which is why Salvor’s bf let her dad sacrifice himself to blow up the corvettes: it was the “best outcome.” Continued book discussion It is not clear at all that the 2nd foundation is doing anything at all. It's specifically indicated otherwise in later books. They stayed on Trantor to further the science of psychohistory and mentalics, and to protect the library because psychohistory suggested that Trantor would just be ignored after the final fall. And there was no way they would be able to effect any change, as Seldon himself talks about the need for leverage. Which means mental control at specific points. It's the same sort of story as the Eternals, who's quest was to make the greatest possible change using the smallest possible action. Like moving a container of a chemical 1 foot to the right.
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Oct 26, 2021 00:30
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ElGroucho posted:The Salvor actor is as bad as Lee Pace is good, which is a lot
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Oct 26, 2021 11:41
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Arglebargle III posted:Man the sequence on Terminus with the kids shows just how much the writers rely on clichés. This isn't really advancing the plot, but we need a scene showing that Terminus is being sacked. So we have an over the shoulder documentary cam following a kid, something that was overused by 2005. The scene between the two kids on the street is kind of appalling writing. I agree that the concept of the indiscriminate sack was frustratingly at odds with the plot though. Feels like someone wrote up a story (which is actually good and makes sense), and someone else came in and was like, "well, wouldn't it be more dramatic and exciting if they were executing people in the streets?" I do not like that imaginary second person. I'm also blaming that second person for the comical "ambush" where our heroes walk openly down a street to the most critical piece of equipment on the planet as if the coast could possibly be clear, and all the scenes in earlier episodes where lone defenders just stand in the open in front of the horde of Anacreons with no apparent understanding of the concept of cover. I'm really enjoying the show though and haven't been that bothered by those kinds of things. They're really silly, but they're surface level silly. The plot doesn't revolve around taking those things seriously- "the few defenders watch the Anacreons prepare," "it's chaos as the Anacreons take the city," and "our heroes try to sneak into the ship but are caught" are all perfectly acceptable plot points. Just because they were portrayed in more or less jarring ways doesn't ruin the story for me. LinkesAuge posted:If that was true there would be no Second Foundation. It seems people often like to make the same mistake with Psychohistory as they do with the three robotic laws, they take the premise as "truth" instead of realising that Asimov's whole point is that the story is about the flaws of the premise. Spoiler about book themes but show events: Seldon says the universe can rotate around an individual... to Raych. 2nd Foundation Raych. The Foundation itself (First Foundation) must believe that individuals cannot matter, as they follow the plan of one man, but Seldon himself seems to have known that he was creating a convenient story to manipulate the bulk of events, even as he sets in motion a plan to allow individuals to tweak the path of the future. Seldon lies when it is convenient. He did in the books, and he's already clearly doing it in the show. The weird thing is that Salvor Hardin psychically heard him say that. I'm not sure that was part of the plan, and I'm honestly not sure exactly what's going on with the vault in the show. I'm prepared to be disappointed by the show once we know what's going on, but so far the themes of the book have been no more undercut by the show than they were by Asimov himself before the end of the original trilogy.
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Oct 26, 2021 16:13
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Stranger Foundations
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Oct 26, 2021 16:52
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I've read the books and I'm sick of hearing about the books in this thread, jfc. Also, defending the flaws of the show based on stuff that is explained in the books is pointless. I like the show, but undercutting within the first season the central premise it proposed in the first episode is not a good look. We haven't even seen Psychohistory as a predictive force get a win yet so there are no emotional stakes in seeing that, actually, some individuals might be able to alter the flow of history. The reveal ends up seeming like lazy writing.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:16
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:I've read the books and I'm sick of hearing about the books in this thread, jfc. I agree that it's a bit unsatisfying that we haven't seen the promise of psychohistory, as outlined in the first episode, borne out at all yet. But we have yet to see anything resolve in that plot line. As I said, I'm prepared to be disappointed, but we're still in the process of playing out the first crisis, and I honestly have no idea where things are going to end up.
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Oct 26, 2021 17:58
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The big twist/departure will be that Hari Seldon was a crazy crank and the real oracle was Ian Malcolm
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Oct 26, 2021 18:03
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Eiba posted:I brought it up because it seemed like a common complaint, but one you'd only have if you were invested in the initial premise of the book. I think whats weird is they're dragging things out so painfully slow, yet paradoxically are also (book stuff) cramming together the first and second crisis sooner than they occurred and skipping the entire intervening decades and religion that let them succeed in the second crisis without a shot fired in a dramatic fashion, and rushing through the actual plot. . Turning clever ploys and political maneuvering into big shoot 'em up gun battles because the producers are either too dumb or think their audience is too dumb to have a plot thats not about gun battles is what kind of misses the entire premise of the book. Wasn't GoT that was all about scheming plans of factions, like the biggest show ever? They didn't learn a lesson from that that audiences can stand a little plotting and intrigue? Thats why it gives the impression the producers/writers are embarrassed by the actual story, as the best part by far is also the only part they're allowing to be slow and about political factions and their plans and internal problems, their original story of The Emperors. As long as the Emperors are on screen I'm hooked and want to see more, but all the Foundation stuff so far has been a mess, even ignoring the book nerdery and viewing it as its own original work, it feels like sloppy compared to the Empire stuff.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:40
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Show spoiler: I'm thinking the Empire's robot governess did space 9/11. The cycle of cloning has made her lonely, consistently saying goodbye to the person she cares for most. Her religious belief in change is incompatible with the clone empire. She is likely behind the newest emperor's genetic difference and when Emperor Darkness makes note of something wrong with the new Dawn she hurriedly escorts him off to death. More than all that, Demerzel constantly mentions how she is solely dedicated to Empire. Now that could mean the title held by Dawn, Day, and Dusk or it could mean the idea of the Empire persevering, sort of like the Foundation's mission. Sad for Lee Pace. Nobody deserves to be betrayed by their android Mommy Wife.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:45
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Show spoiler: Demerzel is R. Daneel Olivaw, who masterminds everything to ensure humanity survives per the Zeroeth Law of Robotics
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Oct 26, 2021 19:21
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:I've read the books and I'm sick of hearing about the books in this thread, jfc. Yeah, why would the books matter in a TV show adaption of some books? 
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Oct 26, 2021 20:16
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:
I don't remember that character.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:35
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I don't remember that character. You didn’t read to the end.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:38
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Read the original trilogy about 15 years ago. Don't know that the show has much to do with those books about old white guys smoking cigars around nuclear power plants.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:40
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I don't remember that character. Which? R Daneel is from the Robot series of novels with Elijah Bailey (Caves of Steel, Naked Sun, etc) that pre-date the Empire. Robots and Empire is the book that sets him on the path to saving humanity. Demerzel is R Daneel in the prequel books and he's the one that encourages Seldon to not give up on psychohistory but to continue to develop it, but I don't remember which ones He then shows up at the end and is revealed to be the mastermind in the fifth book, Foundation and Earth Just-In-Timeberlake fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 20:45
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I hope we get a flashback episode where Demerzel is man and also wears a futuristic detective outfit
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Oct 26, 2021 20:45
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Didn't she torture some lady to get information? That wasn't very cash money (Robot Laws) of her
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Oct 26, 2021 21:04
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Go talk about the book in another thread for fucks sake
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Oct 26, 2021 22:28
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Boris Galerkin posted:Go talk about the book in another thread for fucks sake No
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Oct 26, 2021 22:29
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More Lee Pace, Less Disgrace
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Oct 27, 2021 00:35
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Boris Galerkin posted:Go talk about the book in another thread for fucks sake  It’s speculation like any other thread has about the upcoming plot
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Oct 27, 2021 00:37
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Boris Galerkin posted:Go talk about the book in another thread for fucks sake Go make your own tv show thread, with blackjack and hookers then. It's a show based on a book series. People are going to compare them. I suggest you deal with it.
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Oct 27, 2021 02:17
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I speculate that : copy/paste plot from Wikipedia! Did guess right? 
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Oct 27, 2021 03:18
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So far the only good reading the books has done for me is give me a lovely list of proper nouns that appear. That's cool too I guess.
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Oct 27, 2021 04:21
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syense posted:So far the only good reading the books has done for me is give me a lovely list of proper nouns that appear. That's cool too I guess. Still haven’t heard “atomics.” 
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Oct 27, 2021 05:08
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Welcome to the Foundation (2021) thread! Please don't talk about literally anything that happens or you think might or might not happen in the book or the tv show, but if you really have to please use spoiler tags because that way when there are actually proper spoilers people will just assume that you're talking about your pet theory or the lighting and mouse over it. Please do not talk about anything other than the show. Please do not talk about the thread. Please do not enjoy the show, or book, for any reason. Accepted discussion topics are: * book is different, and thus bad * show is different, and thus bad * anyone who likes this is an idiot because it is fast moving flash flash for babies * anyone who likes this is a boring nerds because it is slow moving talk talk for boring nerds * apple is definitely doomed now they made show Thanks for helping to maintain TV IV's standard of discussion!
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Oct 27, 2021 05:28
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 the thread isn't even that bad this week.  This thread's bones/no bones is Lee Pace/No Lee Pace.
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Oct 27, 2021 06:07
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Is it permitted to unsubscribe from Thread between episodes?
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Oct 27, 2021 06:17
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Im sorry it is not
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Oct 27, 2021 06:38
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The lesson I'm getting is that I enjoy a lot of things that goon's don't seem to like all that much.
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Oct 27, 2021 09:49
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We are all agreeing that the Empire stuff is amazing and that is not portrayed in the book. We could all also agree that the Terminus stuff is dragging and being poorly developed.
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Oct 27, 2021 15:40
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There's a lot of stuff in this show that has seemed baffling at the time, but on reflection makes perfect sense. It's a show that you need to reflect on sometimes after you have all the pieces. Like Brother Dawn being good at shooting the birds because he's colorblind, and he was hiding his kills because he was scared of being found out, not because he didn't want to show up Brother Dusk. I'm reserving judgement on the Terminus plot-line until all the pieces come together. We've been told Seldon has a plan. I don't know what it is, and I can't really guess at it, so I can't say whether it's cool or dumb until we see it play out. And that means I'm able to enjoy it week to week, for what it is. I've got some nitpicks, but I'm kind of impressed at how well they built up the feel of the settlement. The show is good.
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Oct 27, 2021 15:59
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