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The show is good but I don't know if it qualifies as being "brainy" like Foundation has the reputation of being.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:21
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Data Graham posted:The show is good but I don't know if it qualifies as being "brainy" like Foundation has the reputation of being. I'm waiting until the final episode of the season to judge that. I still think this will be resolved in a clever non-violent way.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:28
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Data Graham posted:The show is good but I don't know if it qualifies as being "brainy" like Foundation has the reputation of being. It has its moments, like when the emperors talk philosophy, or the AI gets outsmarted by math, or the foundation debates numbering systems
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Oct 27, 2021 17:13
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It would be amusing if all emperors were actually color blind and left handed and the paranoid adaptation is considered an essential part of their upbringing. Thats just Dusks job, to gaslight Dawn :3
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Oct 27, 2021 17:19
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Centrist Committee posted:It has its moments, like when the emperors talk philosophy, or the AI gets outsmarted by math, or the foundation debates numbering systems True, but as we've discussed, to me those moments feel both too in-your-face and out-of-nowhere to seem like an organic part of the story, and too popular-idea-of-what-math-is to actually mean anything or get the audience thinking about the implications. Way too often the show leans on "say a lot of numbers" as their shorthand for "math is happening". Like when Gaal recites giant prime numbers or when she asks for 3D cones in space with specific numeric angles. It's a step up on the cerebral-o-meter from Data rattling off time estimates to 17 decimal places but not much. I mentioned Ian Malcolm earlier and I've been thinking JP actually might have had a way bigger cultural impact than it aimed for in favor of people understanding the implications of mathematics as a field of study, just by giving them a label to put on the phenomenon of "poo poo will get more hosed up over time and you can't predict anything". Foundation thus far is more retreading the opposite (T2) angle, which is "the future is preordained because of human nature, no matter what individuals might do we're all doomed". Except in this case it's less "it's worth fighting against the dying of the light anyway because cool Arnold robots" and more "this Jared Harris guy says if you know enough big numbers you can predict the future even if you personally avert or cause the death of trillions". e: This latest episode with its front-and-center handling of the philosophical/religious rebellion against the Emperors' "immortality" is doing good things though. If they tie that back into the psychohistory stuff in some coherent way I will giddily eat my words. Data Graham fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 17:41
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Data Graham posted:True, but as we've discussed, to me those moments feel both too in-your-face and out-of-nowhere to seem like an organic part of the story, and too popular-idea-of-what-math-is to actually mean anything or get the audience thinking about the implications. Could have fooled me, but then again I am a dummy with a free ATV+ subscription because of my Apple purchases, so the show runners know their demographic 
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Oct 27, 2021 17:55
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So far Psychohistory has just been a religion for the Foundation. We, the audience, have no reason to think it's doing a good job predicting anything so far.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:24
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Yeah, that too. So far Hari Seldon just looks like a weird crazy person who is wrong about everything and Empire was right to ship him off to the ends of the universe.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:26
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Hari apparently said the Foundation would survive its first crisis, but let me tell you, it doesn't look like its doing so hot.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:28
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What I got from the numbers scene is that, despite being #2 on this expedition, Gaal never attends meetings, but at her first one shits on everyone because nobody likes Base63 or whatever
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Oct 27, 2021 20:41
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I mean clearly they'll survive it (or there would be no more show, lol), so maybe they'll start laying down that they actually predicted all this and show things going perfectly to plan. I do worry if they spend too much time setting up (book stuff) the flaws of psychohistory, and the nature of outliers who can derail things this early, it will undercut the surprise/impact of the second foundation and the mule showing up later, and they'll just be more business as usual instead of a genuine shock and worry. We'll see how they resolve the foundation stuff with Hardin, but it will be disappointing if they don't outwit the Anacreons, and instead just kick someone down a pit after a fist fight.
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Oct 27, 2021 20:51
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They're going to cast a very sexy K-pop star as the mule, because they don't want to offend weird-bodied people
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Oct 27, 2021 21:13
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My pet theory, when it was made very clear that Gaal had mental powers, though it seems less likely now that she's going to Seldon's homeworld She is the mother of the Mule who unleashes him on the Foundation in revenge
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Oct 27, 2021 22:02
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Gaal is the kwisatz haderach
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Oct 29, 2021 05:53
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why would you program a hologram to feel pain?
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Oct 29, 2021 08:10
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Wow, Hari Seldon's a loving dick.  boo boo bear posted:why would you program a hologram to feel pain? It's a 1-for-1 exact copy of his mind up to the moment of his death, he's not programmed to feel pain, he's feeling actual (non-existent) pain until he realizes he's not once it sinks in he's no longer the original Hari. I actually thought they did a good job setting the stage for this with the earlier scene of Dawn explaining how a spare Dawn/Day/Dusk are kept constantly at the ready if needed to come into existence with the full memories/experience/feelings of the version that died/got damaged to the point they "had" to be euthanized not to mention the Commander explaining he has a device that records everything he sees and hears etc. I had a much bigger problem, as usual, with the Huntress killing the one guy she knew for a fact was recognized by the ship as a military commander because apparently she assumed there would be zero other military access checks after the first one. Not to mention Salvor, who in previous episodes literally explained that she can program an energy shield to only recognize the settlers as valid and block access by anybody else, going ahead and programming the energy shield they found in the ship to let them all through including the Anacreons. Not to mention the confirmation that her entire plan really would have been completely hosed if the commander hadn't survived his entire ship being blown out of the sky and exploding into a million pieces (that did manage to kill his entire crew but only left him with some scratches). Right now my guess is that Salvor's boyfriend is going to have jetpacked his way back, collected the commander's corpse and the device in his head and will use that to contact the military otherwise those both feel like extremely odd elements to have introduced and then.... they're just gone.
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Oct 29, 2021 12:58
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The whole Anacreon story line relies and such a series of improbable events occurring and going in the Anacreons favor despite their incredible incompetence that I've blown past any semblance of believability. Killing THE ONLY GUY who has the nanobots needed to bypass security measures as soon as you get in the front door, with absolutely no idea of whether there are other security blocks in place on this military vessel is just astoundingly stupid. And the Anacreons doing dumb poo poo wouldn't be bad writing in and of itself, but the fact that they continue to succeed despite their rank amateur actions just beggars belief.
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Oct 29, 2021 14:25
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Nitrousoxide posted:The whole Anacreon story line relies and such a series of improbable events occurring and going in the Anacreons favor despite their incredible incompetence that I've blown past any semblance of believability. Killing THE ONLY GUY who has the nanobots needed to bypass security measures as soon as you get in the front door, with absolutely no idea of whether there are other security blocks in place on this military vessel is just astoundingly stupid. And the Anacreons doing dumb poo poo wouldn't be bad writing in and of itself, but the fact that they continue to succeed despite their rank amateur actions just beggars belief. It also means the Foundation people have no reason to comply with the Anacreons since they've shown they kill everyone once they've 'outlived their usefulness' and if they can't be trusted to not kill that guy the millisecond they even think they are done with him, they'll do the same to all of them, and all their Foundation hostages, if those are even relevant anymore. I liked some elements of this episode but it continues to be weirdly slow. I think the montage at the end would have been a lot better if it were half as long.
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Oct 29, 2021 15:35
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Metropolis posted:It also means the Foundation people have no reason to comply with the Anacreons since they've shown they kill everyone once they've 'outlived their usefulness' and if they can't be trusted to not kill that guy the millisecond they even think they are done with him, they'll do the same to all of them, and all their Foundation hostages, if those are even relevant anymore. They also explained that they are planning on doing space 9/11 so everyone is going to die anyway. Why would the hostages help her? So they can assist in the murder of billions before they die themselves? I hope this is resolved by someone explaining to the Anacreons that the empire is collapsing on its own and if we steal this ship and the technology instead of committing suicide we can be the next empire Rutibex fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 17:37
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Bailed after episode 3, but does it get any better? I'm kinda of out of good shows to watch right now. The writing was beyond dogshit and it was already moving incredibly slowly in dumb awkward directions, especially that magic warden character. I remember the clones being cool, but they have no idea how to use Lee Pace and it is very disappointing coming off Halt and Catch Fire recently.
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Oct 29, 2021 17:59
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shirunei posted:Bailed after episode 3, but does it get any better? I'm kinda of out of good shows to watch right now. The writing was beyond dogshit and it was already moving incredibly slowly in dumb awkward directions, especially that magic warden character. I remember the clones being cool, but they have no idea how to use Lee Pace and it is very disappointing coming off Halt and Catch Fire recently. Not really. Every episode has had at least some interesting parts, but it's looking less and less likely that they're gonna suddenly turn this mess around. The production is great, and the actors are perfectly capable, but they're just being given terrible material, like "Wormhole X-Treme" level dialogue. The emperor stuff is better, but the Foundation plot is real bad. I've got a lot of free time, so I'm still gonna stick through for the season just for the occasion interesting spots and with the hope that they are going somewhere, just really slowly, but... drat, they really do keep cutting away from every interesting scene or plot in a way that just KILLS the momentum. Makes it feel very mystery-boxy, to me, like Lost. Writers just kicking the can down the road rather than ever having to resolve any of the dramatic tension they introduce. I'm being a little unfair, but only a little.
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Oct 29, 2021 18:47
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I love the show and think it's great. But I don't know if my opinion is very valuable. I don't watch many TV shows and I'm only watching this one because its the show I fantasized about since my childhood.
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Oct 29, 2021 18:56
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The spacewalking scenes in the latest episode have yet again renewed my appreciation of The Expanse. Day and Dawn adventures were good. Gaal revelations were fine if completely predictable. Terminus/Anacreon stuff manages to somehow get worse every episode. Space boyfriend floating off into the void actually made me laugh out loud it was so stupid.
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Oct 29, 2021 18:58
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Rooting for Brother Dawn and the gardener to escape and get a happy ending, however unlikely that seemsRutibex posted:They also explained that they are planning on doing space 9/11 so everyone is going to die anyway. Why would the hostages help her? So they can assist in the murder of billions before they die themselves? 
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Oct 29, 2021 20:10
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galenanorth posted:Rooting for Brother Dawn and the gardener to escape and get a happy ending, however unlikely that seems Book discussion Did they include the gardener from the prequel books who got promoted to an office job and killed the emperor for taking him away from his plants? Tell me his name is Mandell Gruber
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Oct 29, 2021 21:03
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CainFortea posted:Book discussion No, Mandell Gruber was a really good character, but the gardener is the teenage girl with whom Dawn is in a relationship (probably one of many gardeners working around the palace, to clarify the "the"). It started when he accidentally fell off the balcony while trying to get a better view, she gave him a red plant with an aeroma that numbs pain, and he went all Emperor on her with paranoia that she was giving him a poison, and then it turned out not to be a trick. He is hiding his genetic differences from past emperors such as colorblindness, left-handedness, and different meal preferences from Brother Dusk so that they won't kill him and replace him with a backup clone with all his past experiences. However, he spent his mandatory time with a concubine telling all his secrets or practicing giving a speech to the gardener, so Brother Dusk knows what's up. This week the gardener's giving him advice on how to escape from the palace, change his identity, and live as a normal citizen. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 21:44
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Someone was like I'm going to write this show like a 10 hr movie for people who binge before finding out it was coming out weekly. They should just release 20 min snippets per day it would have the same effect. I'm still enjoying what we get though.
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Oct 29, 2021 22:37
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Wait why did they kill the real Hari. Why not stab the hologram and put the real Hari in the pod?
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Oct 29, 2021 22:44
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Arglebargle III posted:Wait why did they kill the real Hari. Why not stab the hologram and put the real Hari in the pod? Hari said he had a disease (presumably a fatal and uncureable one, but they never went into details). He also needed a dead body if he was going to "fake" his death. Though meat Hari really dead, the hologram (ai?) Hari would just be a copy of him at his last moments. I guess it would depend on what your philosophy of self, but I tend to ascribe to the idea that a Star Trek transporter kills you and creates a copy of you at the destination, so I'd argue Hari's absolutely dead.
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Oct 29, 2021 22:53
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Holograms aren’t real dawg It makes perfect sense to murder someone with military training who would signed up to die to protect the empire the very second you didn’t need him. She for sure knew about the beacon too. Similarly it makes sense that anything inside the ship is unlocked or locked for a specific identity. Works that way on every other space show.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:01
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chaosbreather posted:Similarly it makes sense that anything inside the ship is unlocked or locked for a specific identity. Works that way on every other space show. No? Literally in this show we see Gaal have limited access to the ship she's in, and just because the Warden is present on her new ship her boyfriend gave her doesn't mean everyone can use anything on it, that was the whole reason why they had to keep her alive. And I would be absolutely SHOCKED if the Empire had such garbage security that a captain from another ship could walk onto one he's not in command of and just control any system he wanted. It's like the writers put 0 effort into thinking this through.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:09
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Nitrousoxide posted:No? Literally in this show we see Gaal have limited access to the ship she's in, and just because the Warden is present on her new ship her boyfriend gave her doesn't mean everyone can use anything on it, that was the whole reason why they had to keep her alive. nanomachines
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Oct 29, 2021 23:18
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Nitrousoxide posted:No? Literally in this show we see Gaal have limited access to the ship she's in, and just because the Warden is present on her new ship her boyfriend gave her doesn't mean everyone can use anything on it, that was the whole reason why they had to keep her alive. I doubt they would even be able to control the ship with full access to the systems. After all the crew of the ship had access to its systems and they all died. Thats why the Anacreons needed to bring along some Foundation eggheads to hot-wire the warp drive
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Oct 29, 2021 23:24
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XboxPants posted:nanomachines Rememberifitdoesn'tsayNanomachines,it'snottherealthing!
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Oct 29, 2021 23:26
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XboxPants posted:nanomachines And? It's still ludicrously bad security.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:29
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shirunei posted:Bailed after episode 3, but does it get any better? I'm kinda of out of good shows to watch right now. The writing was beyond dogshit and it was already moving incredibly slowly in dumb awkward directions, especially that magic warden character. I remember the clones being cool, but they have no idea how to use Lee Pace and it is very disappointing coming off Halt and Catch Fire recently. If you didn't like the first three episodes you're not going to like the next 4 that have aired since then. The clones are still cool but screen time is split between so many subplots that the show moves pretty slow overall. But there's really not a lot to watch right now and it has its moments so I'll at least give the first and probably second season a chance. aparmenideanmonad posted:The spacewalking scenes in the latest episode have yet again renewed my appreciation of The Expanse. space bf dying so hilariously and quickly has got to mean he isn't dead. he might be the only smart person on the Foundation's team and he's not even in the Foundation. Faking being lost in space is pretty risky and clever if that's what he's doing. Never thought I'd say this but I actually wish this show was more about sitting around and talking and less about showing the action because the action they show isn't that good and they take a long time to do it. It feels like flipping from 'golden age prestige tv' to 'space Xena and Hercules' a few times an episode.
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Oct 29, 2021 23:29
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feedmegin posted:And? It's still ludicrously bad security. They also haven't changed their wifi password in 700 years 
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Oct 29, 2021 23:30
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Metropolis posted:space bf dying so hilariously and quickly has got to mean he isn't dead. he might be the only smart person on the Foundation's team and he's not even in the Foundation. Faking being lost in space is pretty risky and clever if that's what he's doing. And especially the fact that they showed a shot of him floating away long after it was dramatically necessary for the plot beat of the moment. They might as well have cut to his POV and had him start talking to himself about how to recover and land on the opposite side of the ring like Naomi on the Expanse
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Oct 29, 2021 23:33
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Rutibex posted:I doubt they would even be able to control the ship with full access to the systems. After all the crew of the ship had access to its systems and they all died. Thats why the Anacreons needed to bring along some Foundation eggheads to hot-wire the warp drive Extremely wild that their galaxy-brain plan is to grab a single person from the Foundation who maybe ran a warp capable ship for merchants decades ago (after indiscriminently slaughtering people at the colony for hours on end) and expect him to be able to operate a one-of-a-kind Empire military ship from at least 700 years ago (that's when it was lost, not when it was built) and do so with only a few hours to familiarize themselves with it due to the ship randomly jumping around the galaxy. Is their warp expert even loving with them at this point? I don't think he is. Is the Warden, despite never having been in space in her life, supposed to be the one to fix the drive now?
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Oct 29, 2021 23:36
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shirunei posted:Bailed after episode 3, but does it get any better? I'm kinda of out of good shows to watch right now. The writing was beyond dogshit and it was already moving incredibly slowly in dumb awkward directions, especially that magic warden character. I remember the clones being cool, but they have no idea how to use Lee Pace and it is very disappointing coming off Halt and Catch Fire recently. No it hasn't
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Oct 29, 2021 23:40
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