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Murgos posted:I feel like I’m being gaslit again. I don’t see how people can look at a constitution ignoring, big lying, COVID denying, insurrection supporting, fascist, bigoted and racist Republican Party and vote in a new R governor. Youngkin didn't run on being a frothing Q Anon weirdo he ran on doubling tax deductions, charter schools, lowering gas prices, and promising people can go to Chili's uninterrupted. People like those. Most voters see both parties as having fringe elements not representative of the core. A lot of states, especially swing states, are not going to be swayed by trying to paint the Republicans as a bloc of violent insurrectionists.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:34
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mango sentinel posted:Youngkin didn't run on being a frothing Q Anon weirdo he ran on doubling tax deductions, charter schools, lowering gas prices, and promising people can go to Chili's uninterrupted. People like those. Most voters see both parties as having fringe elements not representative of the core. A lot of states, especially swing states, are not going to be swayed by trying to paint the Republicans as a bloc of violent insurrectionists. Exactly... People are sick and tired of excuses and will vote for the simplest and most concrete message of "You have a problem? I'm gonna make it better". It just so happens people want to go about their lives unmolested with a cheaper cost of living. Everyone wants that.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:36
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Angry_Ed posted:Pretty sure an attempted fascist coup, no matter how inept, is something that should be a big deal but ok let's normalize that I guess. If it was as bad as you say it is then why have multiple top Democrats, including the President, said we need the Republican Party?
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Nov 3, 2021 15:36
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https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1455903514748760075 One bright spot, at least.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:38
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Breyer should maybe retire on Friday.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:39
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Nucleic Acids posted:If it was as bad as you say it is then why have multiple top Democrats, including the President, said we need the Republican Party? They also don’t think we need UHC or student loan forgiveness so we should give that up too right?
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Nov 3, 2021 15:40
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Nucleic Acids posted:If it was as bad as you say it is then why have multiple top Democrats, including the President, said we need the Republican Party?
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Nov 3, 2021 15:42
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Nucleic Acids posted:If it was as bad as you say it is then why have multiple top Democrats, including the President, said we need the Republican Party? Because a healthy democracy requires multiple major parties to properly reflect the popular will.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:43
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Willo567 posted:If Trump got reelected in 2024, could America actually survive another term with him after he tried to do an insurrection? He's too mentally unhinged and his fanbase is full of cultists Yes, America has survived worse presidents than Trump getting a second term. Bush and Reagan were far worse just for two examples in living memory, and they both get remembered fondly in mainstream opinion. The country has definitely survived worse things than a bunch of dumbasses milling around the Capitol and putting their feet on Nancy Pelosi's desk. The question you should be asking is: what are the Dems doing to repair the damage Trump caused, and what are they doing to mitigate any damage he might cause in the future? The answer seems to be jack poo poo.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:45
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Maybe this will light a fire under the Dems to get that big bill passed with some of the good stuff still in it so they can run on that in 2022
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Nov 3, 2021 15:45
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Edmund Lava posted:They also don’t think we need UHC or student loan forgiveness so we should give that up too right? Maybe putting hopes in a party that doesn’t give a poo poo about any of these things is a fools errand?
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Nov 3, 2021 15:46
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St. Paul Minnesota just passed Rent Control last night https://twitter.com/MNReformer/status/1455750594887618565?s=20 So another bit of good news among the shitshow.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:48
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Angry_Ed posted:It doesn't matter if it was a "realistic" route considering several members of congress came close to being harmed by those "real estate agents" and there were other deaths besides. Take your Glenn-Greenwald-rear end "oh it's just histrionics" take and piss off. Normal people hate Congress and have no reason to care if some of them were "almost harmed," much less work themselves into an anxiety spiral about what could have happened but didn't. Lol at just saying "other deaths" to try to make it seem more violent though considering the only violent death was a rioter getting blasted by a cop
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Nov 3, 2021 15:48
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Gripweed posted:Maybe this will light a fire under the Dems to get that big bill passed with some of the good stuff still in it so they can run on that in 2022 I don’t think it will.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:52
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Groovelord Neato posted:It's not as if the party is treating as an existential threat either considering the inaction against members of Congress who refused to certify and still treating the Republicans as their colleagues. Yeah the obvious lack of sincerity is undermining whatever they're trying to accomplish by harping on this "Republicans are going to use their gerrymandered control of state governments to steal the presidency in 2024! We have to defend democracy!" "So we should...ban partisan gerrymandering?" "No! Thats not bipartisan! That would annoy our Republican friends across the aisle! We'd have to dumpster our favorite undemocratic senate tradition to pass it!" "Oh. So we should purge the FBI and cops of right-wingers who ignored or abetted the insurrection!" "No! That's not bipartisan! And anyway antifa broke a bank window! We need law and order!" "Oh. So we should try to make up the disadvantage by steamrolling a popular agenda through congress over the objections of the quasi-fash legislators who refused to certify Biden's win, and beat them at the polls that way?" "No! That's not bipartisan! The Republicans are our friends and colleagues!" "OK so we should..." "Hold a dozen hearings where we yell that this will happen again unless you vote blue no matter who (except for any of our moderate Republican friends who we endorse and who will later vote to not certify a democratic winner in 2024)!"
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Nov 3, 2021 15:56
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Raenir Salazar posted:Because a healthy democracy requires multiple major parties to properly reflect the popular will. First of all, I reject the contention that parties are absolutely necessary. They're a part of this system, and they're sticking around, so whatever. Assuming we do need parties, we don't need any of those parties to be republicans, though. We actually don't need any of them to be democrats, either! Edit: I'm of the opinion 1/6 was a big deal. Full stop. But I also agree dems aren't taking it seriously in a real way and are just using it to try to scare voters into their corner, and it won't work. Every single person who showed up that day should be in prison. Every congressperson who supported them should be out of office and probably also in prison. I don't understand using it as a vote cudgel, though. It happened EVEN THOUGH we voted blue no matter who. So... why would doing more of the things that made that happen make that not happen? Hellblazer187 fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 15:56
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Kraftwerk posted:Exactly... People are sick and tired of excuses and will vote for the simplest and most concrete message of "You have a problem? I'm gonna make it better". It just so happens people want to go about their lives unmolested with a cheaper cost of living. Everyone wants that. There is some truth to that, but I think there's also something to be said for the fact that republicans are able to create problems out of nothing and then rail against them on the national stage in a way that the democrats are simply unable or unwilling to do. Fighting to make people's lives better is one thing, but since neither party is really capable of saying "we're going to make it so the system isn't rigged for rich people" and actually mean it, the republicans' ability to set the message of every conversation unilaterally makes it an unfair fight from the get-go. I might be wandering into the weeds a little bit with this, but I think one of the primary reasons republicans are able to tap into people's grievances is because almost everyone has, at one point or another, felt as though they were tarnished by someone policing how they say or think, and attributing it to them as a being bad people. Like, I'm not just speaking in terms of Twitter here, but the phenomenon is most easily viewable there: there's power in telling someone that they're wrong, or that they've done something racist or bigoted and shouldn't do that any more, and it can be kind of fun to score a zinger on someone you don't like very much by implying, even in a joking way, that they've done a racism. And I also assume basically everyone has been on the receiving end of that at some point or another. Unless you were always a perfect socially-adjusted uber person from birth, I guess. Like, growth is painful, some sometimes getting corrected by someone is a necessary part of that, but it's still not fun. So in some sense, a huge portion of republican social policy success is by tapping into "you have a problem [with people trying to police how you speak or think]? We hate that too, so we'll fight to make it stop." Arguments about tone policing and unintended side effects of bigotry are so fraught and awful for the majority of people to deal with that, even here, in a left-leaning place, they've been shuttled off to an entirely different forum so we don't have to deal with them any more. The democratic position of "some social things are bad, actually" is a much, much harder sell for people because it requires a kind of emotional maturity and understanding of empathy that the republican-lite version of "well why don't we just not talk about these things, then?" that you see it pretty often here, even not including the decision to literally segregate minority discussion. (Also, yeah, that line is gonna piss some people off, sorry.) If I had a unifying idea for What People Would Vote For, it's "not be bothered by other people." That's why I think Biden won -- his pitch was "we'll shut the howler monkey up and then not change much of anything else." And people wanted that. It's also why I think he'll lose in the next round. He won't have that to lean on, and the drumbeat of "those people want to change how your children think" is wonderfully effective. I guess doubly so since one of the strongest weapons we have against family members who go Full Chud is to cut them out entirely, giving proof to the idea that "see? they turn your own kids against you just because you won't except their bis or tris or whatever the fucks these days." Not that that's correct, obviously. It's just... y'know, if you can understand why your opponents win, it's easier to try to beat them, I guess. But I could be wrong.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:56
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Nonsense posted:Breyer should maybe retire on Friday. That barely matters. When the best we can hope for is keeping the Supreme Court at 6-3, we should probably just admit that the Supreme Court is a write-off for for the next couple decades
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Nov 3, 2021 15:57
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Raenir Salazar posted:Because a healthy democracy requires multiple major parties to properly reflect the popular will. Well, the US isn’t a democracy so it’s kind of a moot point.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:58
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Gripweed posted:That barely matters. When the best we can hope for is keeping the Supreme Court at 6-3, we should probably just admit that the Supreme Court is a write-off for for the next couple decades We have to start fixing it at some point and moving the expiration date of a liberal seat forward by a few decades wouldn't hurt, at least
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Nov 3, 2021 15:58
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Gripweed posted:That barely matters. When the best we can hope for is keeping the Supreme Court at 6-3, we should probably just admit that the Supreme Court is a write-off for for the next couple decades I feel like maintaining 6-3 for at least a little while longer is preferable to a potential quick decline to a 7-2 chock full of young, horrible justices.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:58
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Gripweed posted:Maybe this will light a fire under the Dems to get that big bill passed with some of the good stuff still in it so they can run on that in 2022 Well, here is the centrist third way urging something be passed: https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1455887023529623558 The differences within the democratic caucus, and the implications this has for the contents of the bills, make me skeptical that passing the two bills will be enough to move the needle on midterms.
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Nov 3, 2021 15:59
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Looking at the WaPo exit polling: https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2021/exit-polls-virginia-governor/ The voters that went Biden -> Youngkin were predominately white women without a Bachelor's or equivalent who have kids at home. College educated voters and black voters voted the same way they did last year, and McAuliffe actually made gains among hispanic and asian voters. [EDIT: and white no-college women swung big time, going from 56-44 for Trump to 75-25 for Youngkin. That is absolutely massive.] Education was a much bigger issue than usual this go around. A majority of respondents said parents should have "a lot" of say in their curriculum, and those who responded that way broke 3-to-1 for Youngkin. The culture war stuff still works and Youngkin found a new way to capitalize on it. That's the takeaway. Epinephrine fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 15:59
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Gripweed posted:That barely matters. When the best we can hope for is keeping the Supreme Court at 6-3, we should probably just admit that the Supreme Court is a write-off for for the next couple decades Just add more justices
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Nov 3, 2021 15:59
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Raenir Salazar posted:Because a healthy democracy requires multiple major parties to properly reflect the popular will. Do you think we have a healthy democracy? Do you think the Republican Party is part of it being healthy? This answer is entirely incoherent except as contrarianism Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 16:03
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Old James posted:Fixing insulin prices is an overall good. But to the millions of Virginians without diabetes, it had no impact on their lives. This winds back to what strategist Simon Rosenberg was telling Dems a couple months ago: That universal programs are way more popular with voters than highly targeted programs, and it's in their political best interest to pay attention to that. Whether they're touting having passed free healthcare for only the poorest (and for only those who live in certain states); monthly checks for parents (families with little ones get more); or SALT deductions for the wealthiest Americans, Dems have a habit of expecting all voters to be happy with things benefitting fewer than all voters. And this might work in some environments or in other times, say if people were feeling economically secure, or if people united under the banner of a Larger Good (eg: post-9/11, or under Obama's soaring rhetoric), or if people hadn't seen the stuff that benefits themselves get chipped away by neoliberalism & conservatism over the years to the point they feel they're on their own. But in an environment & economy as starkly stratified as ours, it just sets off crabs-in-a-bucket instincts, and makes voters vulnerable to be politically exploited by those who gin up resentment. And yet Dems continue to focus on expanding Pell grants for those who run businesses for three years in disadvantaged communities and expect plaudits & votes out of it.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:03
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Raenir Salazar posted:Because a healthy democracy requires multiple major parties to properly reflect the popular will. So is it a good thing that Virginia escaped single party rule and is back to a healthy multiparty government?
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Nov 3, 2021 16:06
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Fundy Deplorable Fascists ALWAYS vote! for 2024 it will be Trump/Hawley and Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 16:09
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haveblue posted:We have to start fixing it at some point and moving the expiration date of a liberal seat forward by a few decades wouldn't hurt, at least What do you mean by "fixing"? Do you mean waiting for the conservative judges to die in 25 years and replacing them then? Or do you mean actually fixing the court by doing court packing or term limits or something? Because if it's the former, who cares. That's rolling the dice on having the Democrats controlling the White House and the Senate 25 years from now. That's not a good plan, no one should be emotionally invested in that plan. And if it's the latter, Breyer doesn't matter. That's just an issue of having the political will and ability to actually do it.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:10
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Thom12255 posted:Did you use PredictIt? Yeah, made money twice by betting the margin and that Youngkin would win. Good thing I didn't bet on New Jersey tho!
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Nov 3, 2021 16:10
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Willo567 posted:If Trump got reelected in 2024, could America actually survive another term with him after he tried to do an insurrection? He's too mentally unhinged and his fanbase is full of cultists He's A. Old as gently caress B. Completely Senile by 2024 C. His health was already a loving trainwreck before COVID D. Still under investigation for multiple criminal offenses in NYC I really do think Donny is dead long before 2024 Stop loving running against a guy who is not even on the ballot or the internet, and worry about the competent fascist waiting down the pipeline.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:12
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TulliusCicero posted:He's I’m sure the NYAG will indict him any day now.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:13
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It's going to be DeSantis, not Trump for 2024.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:15
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Kraftwerk posted:It's going to be DeSantis, not Trump for 2024. I thought tides were already turning against DeSantis?
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Nov 3, 2021 16:17
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VitalSigns posted:Are you arguing a Clintonite new Democrat supported by Bill Kristol is too left-wing? Who exactly do you want Democrats to run? Mitt Romney? No, I am not suggesting this. Please don't put words in my mouth. Murgos posted:I feel like I’m being gaslit again. I don’t see how people can look at a constitution ignoring, big lying, COVID denying, insurrection supporting, fascist, bigoted and racist Republican Party and vote in a new R governor. I think you understand. American culture is loving toxic in some ways, and needs to change. I'm sure someone will be right along to tell you that the real problem is that voters weren't properly inspired and so they voted for fascism through no fault of anyone except the insidious liberals. Ciprian Maricon posted:Love to blame voters for an outcome because uh, Americans absolutely love expensive insulin. The voters are hardly blameless for taking lovely options and making the shittiest choice.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:18
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Gripweed posted:What do you mean by "fixing"? Do you mean waiting for the conservative judges to die in 25 years and replacing them then? Or do you mean actually fixing the court by doing court packing or term limits or something? Fixing the court in either way is not happening tomorrow, and a 6-3 court is preferable to a 7-2 court for the intervening time CommieGIR posted:I thought tides were already turning against DeSantis? As we just saw, this doesn't necessarily mean he won't be the nominee or the winner
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Nov 3, 2021 16:18
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It's time to have a national conversation about America's culture and how to vote morally
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Nov 3, 2021 16:20
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TulliusCicero posted:He's It's worthless to speculate this early out, but If he isn't actually dead, he's 100% running. The upside for the grift is to compelling for him to just not do it. If he can be wheeled to a stage and still have the breath to shout into a mic he's going to be there announcing his candidacy.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:21
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Gripweed posted:What do you mean by "fixing"? Do you mean waiting for the conservative judges to die in 25 years and replacing them then? Or do you mean actually fixing the court by doing court packing or term limits or something? Sure hoping that if Breyer retires and then Thomas gets a heart attack and Alito gets struck by lightning and we take the courts in a weekend isn't a great plan, but it's not like Democrats are going to do any of that court packing stuff, and it isn't the worst possible plan (which is Breyer pulls an RGB and hangs on against all reason before dying under a republican president, and now we need a heart attack, a lightning strike, and the Cuban brain laser hitting a third conservative justice before we can get milquetoast liberal rulings again)
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Nov 3, 2021 16:21
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CommieGIR posted:I thought tides were already turning against DeSantis? If they are, it's not being exploited in South Florida/Broward. Not even the local Progressive Politics Podcaster is covering much of a "resistance" to DeSantis. You'd think a year out, a Democratic challenger would have emerged and gotten some press but unless I've somehow done the impossible and managed to actually get removed from every democrat mailing list ever, there's hardly a peep about running someone against him next year.
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Nov 3, 2021 16:22
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