US Current Events November: D&D's Afghanistan

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Current Events November: D&D's Afghanistan

selec: Sep 6, 2003

Darkrenown posted:

"Hello, I don't care about diabetics dying because they can't afford drugs, or trans people being murdered. Wake me up when I can have some weed. Yes, I am the true leftist here"

That's quite the lovely view to have.

Civic Calvinism, right here in the thread!

I want Medicare for All, not just the people who agree with me. If you want to win elections instead of moral victories, pay attention to the material needs of the populace. Kwame Ture said something like �if a white man wants to lynch me, that�s his problem. If he has the power to, that�s mine.�

If you want to empower diabetics and trans people, give them loving Money

# ? Nov 3, 2021 17:49

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# ? May 20, 2024 19:08

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

selec posted:

If you want to empower diabetics and trans people, give them loving Money

It's insanely sick to see how both parties looked the other way when it turned out that the stimulus checks were very popular across all political spectrums.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 17:54

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

SourKraut posted:

While I agree that we should have done the bare minimum, early on in the pandemic, it was absolutely the correct call to close schools until more information on Covid was available. Obviously there should have been federal support to ease the difficulties parents had with school closures.

And the AAP started calling for a return to school, with suitable protective measures, in Summer 2020, not at the beginning, in time for the 2020-2021 school year. I would also say that people should always evaluate the AAP's recommendations with a bit of skepticism, because they've had insurance company corporate elements involved with decision making for some time now. My wife works as a pediatric nurse practitioner at a large children's hospital and the group she works in (Pulmonology) has found some of the AAP's guidance over the last year+ troubling, to say the least.

There was a period when it was reasonable to close them at the beginning.

But then remote was an absolute poo poo show. Just so so badly done and run. At the beginning it was here kindergarteners, here�s a power point. Then they had a summer and...

Whoops terrible again. I�m going to be dealing with the fallout in my older child�s life for years. And now the narrative from schools is turning to this is your (the parents fault).

# ? Nov 3, 2021 17:56

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Darkrenown posted:

"Hello, I don't care about diabetics dying because they can't afford drugs, or trans people being murdered. Wake me up when I can have some weed. Yes, I am the true leftist here"

That's quite the lovely view to have.

Is the goal winning elections, or is the goal owning someone with rhetoric.

If the goal is winning elections it seems like people like this are an incredible opportunity for Democrats: you can get their votes for weed money! It doesn't get easier than that, just promise them a fraction of the free bailout money that Goldman Sachs gets constantly.

Of course if getting to scold someone is more important well...

# ? Nov 3, 2021 17:58

Darkrenown: Jul 18, 2012; please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes

selec posted:

Civic Calvinism, right here in the thread!

I want Medicare for All, not just the people who agree with me. If you want to win elections instead of moral victories, pay attention to the material needs of the populace. Kwame Ture said something like �if a white man wants to lynch me, that�s his problem. If he has the power to, that�s mine.�

If you want to empower diabetics and trans people, give them loving Money

What the gently caress are you talking about? I'm not diabetic or trans, I am still happy when things improve for them. Would UBI be good? gently caress yes, I'd be pleased if you got it, because I'm not an insanely selfish person who pops into the thread and says

quote:

I personally don't give a poo poo about the price of insulin or whatever culture war poo poo is going on about bathrooms and same thing about tax credits for kids. The dems need to actually address peoples material needs, put 600 dollars in my account monthly, give me housing, legalize weed and mail me an oz of dope a month.

VitalSigns posted:

Is the goal winning elections, or is the goal owning someone with rhetoric.

If the goal is winning elections it seems like people like this are an incredible opportunity for Democrats: you can get their votes for weed money!

Of course if getting to scold someone is more important well...

Yeah, I'm not here to win elections, I am indeed here just to say Terminal autist has a bad take. Nothing we post here is going to affect elections in any form.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:00

Peter Daou Zen: Apr 6, 2021; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

How is it a bad take when Trump gave people money, and they will remember that? Policy doesn't have to be super wonky or complicated, at all.

You do things, campaign on saying "See what I did for you?" and you win.

People are still angry that Biden owes them 600 dollars he promised.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:02

Sharkie: Feb 4, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Darkrenown posted:

"Hello, I don't care about diabetics dying because they can't afford drugs, or trans people being murdered. Wake me up when I can have some weed. Yes, I am the true leftist here"

That's quite the lovely view to have.

I'm trans and I don't have insurance. Give me healthcare and money. It's not complicated. But these idiots who run for office don't care. I can tell they don't care because they don't give me healthcare and money. So I'm not going to vote for them.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:02

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Darkrenown posted:

"Hello, I don't care about diabetics dying because they can't afford drugs, or trans people being murdered. Wake me up when I can have some weed. Yes, I am the true leftist here"

That's quite the lovely view to have.

Aren't there quite literally hundreds of thousands of otherwise-innocent nonwhite people in jail because weed is illegal? What, exactly, is so deplorable about your line in the sand being "hey, these guys don't actually want to end racist social construct laws?"

(e: quoted the wrong post)

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:02

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Peter Daou Zen posted:

How is it a bad take when Trump gave people money, and they will remember that? Policy doesn't have to be super wonky or complicated, at all.

You do things, campaign on saying "See what I did for you?" and you win.

People are still angry that Biden owes them 600 dollars he promised.

It might have been gaudy as hell, but it turns out including his signature on those checks was actually a good idea.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:05

spouse: Nov 10, 2008; When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Kraftwerk posted:

So I've noticed a lot of people here have been saying "Well what if America is actually a conservative country and running on leftist policies won't win you elections even if you tried".

I understand this sentiment and it's probably true. A lot of Americans probably are conservative. They like their cars, they like the luxuries and "freedoms" of modern 20th century America and many people already have things like rising home equity or a decent enough life they don't want to compromise on. They don't want to be told that they're bad people or that you're going to take away something they already have and replacing it with something "risky" complicated and difficult to understand.

However I don't think that this is the time to lose faith in the system. It just means you're gonna have to pick and choose what you campaign on and focus narrowly on it while figuring out the pain points of common voters and running elections on the promise of addressing these problems.

This is not a new concept. The fact of the matter is we're a bunch of misfits of predominantly urban and white collar background.

In Tsarist Russia there were all kinds of proto-communist movements that fixated on replacing the Tsarist regime by any means necessary, including violence only to find they faced severe repercussions and a discrediting of their movement. Everyone thought "If we could just go to the people and plead our case they'd be sympathetic and activate as a revolutionary cause"

Then we had something called "Going to the people" as summed up in this wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_to_the_People

Yet almost 40 years later we had a revolution and the rise of the Soviet Union.

This guy gets it. We're never going to get anywhere by imposing leftism on America, the people hate that and will vote Republican to spite you just as Russian peasants turned in would be anarchists and revolutionaries to the police for political crimes during "Going to the people". Many of us are middle class computer touchers and educated urban "elites" in the eyes of the masses we all think we represent.

There is a massive pro labor movement that is taking place in spite of us rather than because of us. You want an alternative to current Democratic Party/GOP orthodoxy? It starts by you going out and figuring out what the pain points are of every day people. We already know most of them, healthcare, low pay, abusive management, lovely inflexible working conditions. It's nothing new. One of the biggest pain points for working class people in Imperial Russia was that their pay was garbage and often even worse than what was officially stated because management would dock their pay with fines for stupid procedural errors. Lenin was a lawyer and he wrote simple, easy to read leaflets that condensed this grievance into an understanding of what the worker's rights were and how they could work with socialists to agitate for and demand better rights. In some cases these rules violated existing labor laws. This was a time when peasants were deeply religious people with conservative values and a secret police often infiltrated every aspect of society and arrested people for political thought crime... If the Russians could change their country in this scenario, there's no reason Americans can't do so in the comparably freer and more permissive American system.

But you aren't gonna do it by declaring yourself a socialist mayoral candidate and then running scab labor in your election operation. You aren't gonna do it by telling people they can't have things that make their lives easier in a capitalist hellscape. You sure as hell aren't gonna do it by demonizing people's way of life.

You also are not going to sit on the peak and preach about leftist politics and hope that if people just understood where you're coming from they'd vote you..

None of that is going to work. I've said it once and I'll say it again. You have no responsibility or obligation to get into the weeds to explain HOW you are going to make things better for people. That's a white collar upper-middle class academia sort of audience and it lets your political enemies nitpick sound bytes out of your long winded academic explanations and come up with reasons to oppose you...

No it's much simpler. You bring out good old fashioned agitprop.

You're not getting paid enough- We'll fix it by making them pay you more
You can't afford your medical bills? We'll make healthcare free.
We'll use new technology to create jobs in the energy sector (Read: Green Energy)
We'll create new jobs and opportunities in X industries.

It really doesn't matter what you do to make this a reality, as long as you do it effectively and deliver on the promise to shore up your support with those constituencies.
The best part is we have modern technology and data science techniques that with some money would allow you to build a database of voters and cross reference data of the biggest pain points and political grievances people have right now. Then you just agitate and focus on those core issues.
Boris Johnson won the British Election by repeating "Get Brexit Done" almost constantly and I think that works a lot better than a complex explanation of why we're gonna do yet another referendum on Brexit to see if you really want it after everyone was sick and tired of hearing about it for 2-3 years.

No more talking about getting rid of coal and fossil fuels. You do that discretely with your political comrades at party HQ when you write up your policy and bills. You don't talk about taking away people's cars. You focus on simple statements that address people's problems. Most importantly you go out and you LISTEN. You don't impose your beliefs. You go around to red states and you ask what it is that makes people feel lovely about their lives or their jobs. You don't ask as a carpetbagger or some Yankee either. You find someone the community trusts who's also willing to talk to you and you get them to ask those questions. Then you take the bulk of those grievances compatible with socialism or social democracy and you condense them to simple, easy to read points of view that fit on a leaflet or a soundbyte you can repeat on TV.

These are things conservatives and the GOP innately understand while Democrats go all half cocked on TV like a Rhodes scholar and talk down on people with complicated "Scary" plans they later pare down for obscure procedural reasons nobody understands. That kind of poo poo pisses people off and it doesn't surprise me in the least that people vote Republican because of it. Republicans know how to tap into deep emotional fears and concepts that people can easily understand unless they're a well educated urban political junkies who can spend hours of their free time pouring over the information.

Most people don't care. We're in an information saturated world where ideas fight for oxygen with extreme attention grabbing statements. The winning political formula in my opinion will be when the left stops being so academic and starts doing research on popular bi-partisan policy planks and then finding out how to "go viral" with simple statements and catch phrases that drive turnout on those policy planks. The Russian Revolution seized opportunities provided by the times to enact political change in an analog era. We have unique times in the digital era that are offering us a similar opportunity.

Quoting this whole post because it was a good post.

I'd love to see a greater focus on winning local and state elections and infiltrating dem circles and making a long play to build institutional power as actual progressives. Drop the loving socialist moniker and just push your ideas without a poison pill ideology attached to it. Call yourself whatever you want in private, but pick a name, build a movement, and focus on optics to build your base with simple, understandable arguments for legislation that will help people.

I want to help progressives run at the local level on things they can affect without pushing voters away by talking about dialectical materialism and general strikes. Schools do not serve you, the roads are poo poo, the rent is too drat high, your boss is an rear end in a top hat, and the internet sucks because spectrum/att/whatever sucks. Here's how I, your new city council member, your schoolboard member, your mayor, your state congressperson can help. Build relationships, develop trust, then move to capture higher offices. You might need progressives in office *now* to fix all the world's problems, but you have no base, wanting it really bad is not a basis for winning. You can't fix climate change or usher in FALGSC as a county chair, but you sure as poo poo could get municipal internet installed, you could get union contracts for government business and green energy so they thrive, you could improve infrastructure and use that alone to propel candidates to the state or national level down the line once you build a network.

Basically, reject anyone who smells anything like Joshua Collins and people like him and focus on doing the dirty work, the honest work, the "sewer socialism" to use a left twitter meme.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:10

Darkrenown: Jul 18, 2012; please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes

Lib and let die posted:

Aren't there quite literally hundreds of thousands of otherwise-innocent nonwhite people in jail because weed is illegal? What, exactly, is so deplorable about your line in the sand being "hey, these guys don't actually want to end racist social construct laws?"

(e: quoted the wrong post)

Is the correct reply "Well I'm not in jail for owning weed, so I don't give a poo poo about it." ?

Of course I agree people should not be in jail for weed. TA's post didn't mention that though, so you seem to have invented a less terrible position for them to have. But even if that was their meaning, they could still have it without saying gently caress diabetics and trans people.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:11

Bugsy: Jul 15, 2004; I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.; Slippery Tilde

https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1455892096536268804

Ed Markey is also again st voting for Rahm, and hopefully this will be enough to scuttle him.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:15

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

Bugsy posted:

https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1455892096536268804

Ed Markey is also again st voting for Rahm, and hopefully this will be enough to scuttle him.

And Rahm spent all that time looking up Japanese expletives :v:

Seriously though good that he's not getting it.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:16

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Angry_Ed posted:

And Rahm spent all that time looking up Japanese expletives

Seriously though good that he's not getting it.

Well now he's got a great excuse to use them

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:17

Eric Cantonese: Dec 21, 2004; You should hear my accent.

Angry_Ed posted:

And Rahm spent all that time looking up Japanese expletives

Seriously though good that he's not getting it.

Merkley is a baka gaijin!!

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:21

TulliusCicero: Jul 29, 2017

Bugsy posted:

https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1455892096536268804

Ed Markey is also again st voting for Rahm, and hopefully this will be enough to scuttle him.

I hear Ambassador to Antarctica is still an option Rohm!

Please take T-Mac with you, he's looking for a new job atm

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:24

karthun: Nov 16, 2006; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Ciprian Maricon posted:

Like even if you consider that pie-in-the-sky unrealistic, the bare minimum you could do is run a campaign that doesn't tell angry frustrated parents "you shouldn't have a say in your childs education"

Parents that want to ban books shouldn't have a say in their child's education.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:27

Push El Burrito: May 9, 2006; Soiled Meat

drat it we were finally shipping Rahm out of the country and this guy is screwing it up. We had it all planned, just lock the doors and turn out the lights as soon as he was gone.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:27

Baronash: Feb 29, 2012; So what do you want to be called?

Bar Ran Dun posted:

Whoops terrible again. I�m going to be dealing with the fallout in my older child�s life for years.

My teacher friends had coworkers who are dead and buried because of in person schooling, but yeah, it's a real loving bummer your kid is a bit slow at times tables.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:28

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

Also if a parent is an antimask/antivax person then yes it is their fault in-person schooling hasn't come back.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:30

selec: Sep 6, 2003

Baronash posted:

My teacher friends had coworkers who are dead and buried because of in person schooling, but yeah, it's a real loving bummer your kid is a bit slow at times tables.

There�s nothing better for preserving the status quo than one worker getting mad at another for things the ruling class did to them both

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:32

TGLT: Aug 14, 2009

karthun posted:

Parents that want to ban books shouldn't have a say in their child's education.

Do you want to win or do you want to scold people and give the opposition great sound bites?

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:32

Kraftwerk: Aug 13, 2011; i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

I wonder how many *voters* have issues with health insurance or medical bills... or alternatively avoid the healthcare system entirely due to cost/bureaucracy... Would be nice to see how many people in America would support M4A just from those pain points alone. Like if we had hard data about who these people are, where they live and who they currently vote for, and if they'd change their votes to someone who offers an alternative.

As for M4A in future I think we should just tell people we want M4A, full stop. No getting into the weeds about how its gonna be paid for (We'll pay for it the same we pay for your police and military, we have the money and we won't raise your* taxes).
*Your means anyone making 0-500k.

You don't need to explain how you're gonna pay for it, you just say you're gonna do it. If you lose Democratic primaries then launch a third party and campaign exclusively on these issues as the third party. Strip out the bullshit and keep the message as dead simple as possible.
If it spoils elections, who cares you're talking about making changes that people want. You need to be absolutely shameless, as the Republicans are.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:33

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

karthun posted:

Parents that want to ban books shouldn't have a say in their child's education.

Keep getting mad at those parents and not the dumb-gently caress who lost an election. Not to mention, that a parent who wants to ban books should still have a say in their childs educations, just not about banning books

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:34

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

Ah, yes, third parties, famously, very successful in a political system where <50% = 0.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:35

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

Ciprian Maricon posted:

Keep getting mad at those parents and not the dumb-gently caress who lost an election. Not to mention, that a parent who wants to ban books should still have a say in their childs educations, just not about banning books

Well they decided to become a parent, so we already know they are a stupid loving idiot bowing to society pressure using the kids as social climbing ladders.

There�s no such thing as ethically choosing to have children in the year of 2021.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:37

Police_monitoring: Oct 11, 2021; by sebmojo

TGLT posted:

Do you want to win or do you want to scold people and give the opposition great sound bites?

They want to "vent" their "frustration" at this "exhausting" discourse where it was "proved" they were correct by the politics refs a year ago. This is, of course, valid.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:37

Tibalt: May 14, 2017; What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

Panzeh posted:

Ah, yes, third parties, famously, very successful in a political system where <50% = 0.

The main problem with FPTP voting is that someone with less than 50% of the vote can win, that's the whole reason why third parties are ineffective in America.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:38

Groovelord Neato: Dec 6, 2014

Both McAuliffe was a terrible Clinton creature who ran a lazy/stupid campaign and a lot of White suburbanites are racist rubes who went hysterical over a transparent fraud can be true and in fact are.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:40

Baronash: Feb 29, 2012; So what do you want to be called?

e: nah

Baronash fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Nov 3, 2021

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:41

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Kraftwerk posted:

I wonder how many *voters* have issues with health insurance or medical bills... or alternatively avoid the healthcare system entirely due to cost/bureaucracy... Would be nice to see how many people in America would support M4A just from those pain points alone. Like if we had hard data about who these people are, where they live and who they currently vote for, and if they'd change their votes to someone who offers an alternative.

As for M4A in future I think we should just tell people we want M4A, full stop. No getting into the weeds about how its gonna be paid for (We'll pay for it the same we pay for your police and military, we have the money and we won't raise your* taxes).
*Your means anyone making 0-500k.

You don't need to explain how you're gonna pay for it, you just say you're gonna do it. If you lose Democratic primaries then launch a third party and campaign exclusively on these issues as the third party. Strip out the bullshit and keep the message as dead simple as possible.
If it spoils elections, who cares you're talking about making changes that people want. You need to be absolutely shameless, as the Republicans are.

This has been said after every election cycle I've paid attention to, and while the intent is absolutely there at the start, it becomes complicated when noise gets introduced into the playbook. Let's say that the walking, talking avatar of this mindset, Healthcare Reformerman gets an interview on CNN on, I don't know, who's on the tube these days besides Maddow and Carlson? Is Ellison still there or that Cillizza idiot? Take your pick, whichever millionaire rear end in a top hat manufacturing consent for the billionaire network owner of your flavor, and Mr. Reformerman just say "No, I'm not going to answer that. You pay for war and you pay for police so don't give me that nonsense about 'how are we going to pay for it?'" I'd guarantee you that in less time than it takes the news cycle to, well, cycle, that the narrative that "Progressive Dems/3rd Party Candidate Healthcare Reformerman Can't Even Explain How to Pay for Complete Overhaul of US Healthcare System" would solidly take hold - and that's just among liberal outfits like CNN or MSNBC. I could only imagine the very start of "LIBERAL COMMUNISTS WANT TO PILFER POLICE POCKETS TO PROVIDE SEXUAL REASSIGNMENT SURGERY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS!" on FOX and poo poo.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:43

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Darkrenown posted:

"Hello, I don't care about diabetics dying because they can't afford drugs, or trans people being murdered. Wake me up when I can have some weed. Yes, I am the true leftist here"

That's quite the lovely view to have.

You're completely missing their point, which is that the vast majority of voters don't care or care very little about things that don't affect them personally. They aren't going to be motivated to vote on *just* a platform of protecting and extending trans rights, as an example, even if that's the right thing to do! It would be awesome if they did, but they don't. You need to do something to help them out to get their vote, like UBI. And hey, you know what would help trans folks out a ton? UB loving I. It's a win-win.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:43

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

The core of the covid schooling issue seems to be that both parties dismissed actual solutions (eg paying parents to homeschool their kids while protecting their jobs) out of hand as inconvenient for businesses, and compressed the entire argument down to two horrible choices: OPEN 'ER UP and let the bodies fall where they may, or choose between leaving your kid unattended at home versus quitting your job to homeschool them until the eviction moratorium expires and you and your kid no longer have to worry about school because you're fighting raccoons for shelter in a discarded cardboard box from a rich computer-toucher's Amazon orders.

Then Democrats were shocked that people gravitated to the risky but somewhat manageable option A rather than the completely devastating option B. And lost faith in institutions along the way, giving credence to Republican arguments that government is worthless and the only thing you can count on is that you'll have more money after another tax cut.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:44

How are u: May 19, 2005; by Azathoth

LionArcher posted:

Well they decided to become a parent, so we already know they are a stupid loving idiot bowing to society pressure using the kids as social climbing ladders.

There’s no such thing as ethically choosing to have children in the year of 2021.

Well that's a spicy take. You really believe that every person on earth who has a child is a "stupid loving idiot" and is unethical?

E: or is that just people who had children in 2021?

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:45

Hellblazer187: Oct 12, 2003

Lib and let die posted:

Aren't there quite literally hundreds of thousands of otherwise-innocent nonwhite people in jail because weed is illegal? What, exactly, is so deplorable about your line in the sand being "hey, these guys don't actually want to end racist social construct laws?"

(e: quoted the wrong post)

It's weird that we're talking about weed in the "dems didn't do anything FOR ME" discussion because

https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1455703596033585156

Is the tweet that prompted the discussion on insulin prices, etc.

I don't know the details of VA's legalization, but it seems like it's a thing they like, actually did do in VA.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:46

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

Baronash posted:

Lol, this is the poo poo you save for your therapist.

But it�s accurate.

Also like 90% of parents are really, really bad at their jobs, and more often than not people have kids as ways of justifying trying to fix sub par relationships with their partners they are too chicken poo poo to have a real conversation with.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:47

nelson: Apr 12, 2009; College Slice

Lib and let die posted:

Mr. Reformerman just say "No, I'm not going to answer that. You pay for war and you pay for police so don't give me that nonsense about 'how are we going to pay for it?'"

Just make up some bullshit about closing tax loopholes and call it a day.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:48

Kraftwerk: Aug 13, 2011; i do not have 10,000 bircoins, please stop asking

Lib and let die posted:

This has been said after every election cycle I've paid attention to, and while the intent is absolutely there at the start, it becomes complicated when noise gets introduced into the playbook. Let's say that the walking, talking avatar of this mindset, Healthcare Reformerman gets an interview on CNN on, I don't know, who's on the tube these days besides Maddow and Carlson? Is Ellison still there or that Cillizza idiot? Take your pick, whichever millionaire rear end in a top hat manufacturing consent for the billionaire network owner of your flavor, and Mr. Reformerman just say "No, I'm not going to answer that. You pay for war and you pay for police so don't give me that nonsense about 'how are we going to pay for it?'" I'd guarantee you that in less time than it takes the news cycle to, well, cycle, that the narrative that "Progressive Dems/3rd Party Candidate Healthcare Reformerman Can't Even Explain How to Pay for Complete Overhaul of US Healthcare System" would solidly take hold - and that's just among liberal outfits like CNN or MSNBC. I could only imagine the very start of "LIBERAL COMMUNISTS WANT TO PILFER POLICE POCKETS TO PROVIDE SEXUAL REASSIGNMENT SURGERY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS!" on FOX and poo poo.

You don't say "No I'm not gonna answer that". You're being too nice.

You say "Right now when you go to the hospital you could face a 100,000 bill for a health issue that isn't your fault. I'm going to sort it out for you, we have very smart people on our team who know we can pay for it without raising your taxes"

And you keep repeating the talking point... You don't say you're not gonna answer or that you don't know. You stick to the message. It's intellectually dishonest. It won't fly in Debate club. But guess what? Your audience doesn't give a poo poo. Just keep promising free poo poo without telling anyone what it costs and people will show up and vote for it. You're not here to score intellectual points or get a good grade in your university level political science class... Disabuse yourself of this notion.

You're here to be a demagogue who is using policy planks to stir up deep emotional desires in the general population who is far easier to manipulate and far more numerous than a few academics in New England and Delaware. They don't care about how the sausage is made. They just want to know what they need to do to get something they want. And you are the one, the only one who can give it to them.

Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Nov 3, 2021

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:49

Canned Sunshine: Nov 20, 2005; CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

LionArcher posted:

But it�s accurate.

Also like 90% of parents are really, really bad at their jobs, and more often than not people have kids as ways of justifying trying to fix sub par relationships with their partners they are too chicken poo poo to have a real conversation with.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you might want to take a break for a bit, just for mental health.

Edit: And I say that from a place of caring, not anything else.

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:53

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# ? May 20, 2024 19:08

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

The only thing that's gonna take Florida from the GOP is the ocean. It's gone, even a competent state party probably couldn't overcome the barriers now in place and they're terrible even by the standards I'm used to for state parties.

Personally I'm just waiting for the op-eds blaming AOC or whoever while not a single person brings up the completely unnecessary 3+ months of media hell quagmire that the Senate moderates created for no reason they ever told anybody that was blasted right into the eyes and ears of every single suburbanite daily by every news channel

# ? Nov 3, 2021 18:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Current Events November: D&D's Afghanistan

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