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spouse posted:I am fine ignoring the rule of law so long as it benefits the people I care about, and once that floodgate is open there is absolutely nothing bad that will happen as a result. Pendulums only swing one direction, after all. The pendulum already swung right, and a whole bunch of people are pushing to the right to prevent a leftward backswing
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Nov 3, 2021 21:05
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Sanguinia posted:Ah yes, notoriously bad societal practice "The Rule of Law." What we really need is more Ceasars in modern politics. The Rule of Law, as it exists, throws more people in jail than any other country and empowers police officers to murder with 0 repercussions. People don't want to return to that Rule of Law because it's poo poo. They want a new rule of law that Joe has so far been unable to provide.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:07
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I've already said this, but the rule of law should not be something our politicians hide behind to justify their inaction, which is what Biden is doing. Writing an executive order that the courts will challenge isn't some gross breach of liberal democracy that will inexorably lead to absolute tyranny. This is a stupid argument that sounds more and more like an excuse the more I hear it. He should issue executive orders and force the courts to challenge them. Make the American people see that they're the problem, not him. To do otherwise is indolence, not wisdom.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:10
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Valentin posted:And had they been done by more competent lawyers, way more of them would have gotten through. See this, and the WP analysis it's leaning on. Also yeah a lot of Trump's failures are due to him being dumb as hell rather than the noble U.S institutions holding him back. If he was capable of even the barest amount of subtlety things could have been way, way worse.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:10
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Sharkie posted:Democratic Party members when a Democratic President is in office: "He can't do anything! Don't you see the president is very weak and is trapped in an Iron Cage of Law?!" I'm actually with Sharkie here, most of the way. Law is mostly fiction, as is money. It's all just a pieces of paper that prevent us from living good lives but somehow never applies to certain rich classes of people. I don't expect Biden to ever go "lmao law is fake though." At the very loving least, Biden should try to be aggressive with executive action to see what he can get away with, within that fiction. Like, for instance, rescheduling MJ. If the law wizards say he doesn't have authority, then so be it. The "oh, we don't have authority to even try" is just an excuse to not do things he doesn't want to do.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:12
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How are u posted:Hey folks I would like to plug again the new podcast series Offline, all about how the internet has poisoned our discourse both offline and on, and amplified the worst tendencies of humanity. This week's guest was Monica Lewinkski, who had a lot of real thoughtful things to say about it all. lmao of course Jia Tolentino went on there; online didn’t let her get away with explaining away her parents crimes when she tried to write them off https://www.wearyourvoicemag.com/jia-tolentino-parents-teachers-harmed/
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Nov 3, 2021 21:15
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https://twitter.com/maxberger/status/1455631714215202821?s=21 It’s poo poo like this that shows you who exactly the democrats are supporting
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Nov 3, 2021 21:20
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spouse posted:I am fine ignoring the rule of law so long as it benefits the people I care about, and once that floodgate is open there is absolutely nothing bad that will happen as a result. Pendulums only swing one direction, after all. How is removing the filibuster or replacing the parliamentarian ignoring the rule of law?
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Nov 3, 2021 21:23
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Gripweed posted:How is removing the filibuster or replacing the parliamentarian ignoring the rule of law? it's ignoring the rule of law in spirit
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Nov 3, 2021 21:24
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https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1455716232007757825/photo/2 At the very least, next time the democratic party should not run ads for their opponent lol
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Nov 3, 2021 21:31
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Police_monitoring posted:it's ignoring the rule of law in spirit Jesus gently caress is this a serious post? The filibuster and parliamentarian are made up constructs, made up by the body they supposedly "govern." Constitution says that the House and Senate set their own rules, the only Constitutional limitation on their own proceedings is that rules get set by majority vote. 50+1 can decide to do literally anything they want procedurally.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:31
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The Rule of Law: resuming student loan payments that have been on hold for 22 months for no reason other than pure generational strife and bootstraps.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:33
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Fancy Pelosi posted:Just think, if Obama had broken the law to get things passed, then that would have opened the floodgates for Trump to break the law while he was in office. Thankfully, we had the rule of law to keep Trump in check. I get what you're saying, but I think the more salient point is Obama did break the law in spirit ("secret deliberations within the executive branch where we all agreed 'yep lets murder this American citizen' is 'due process'" lol) and in letter (illegal wiretapping, retaliating against whistle-blowers on said illegal surveillance) but because he did it for bad things to benefit bad people liberals don't care about thaaaaaat They only suddenly get a boner for The Rule Of Law or even just Tradition when someone asks why the president isn't even trying to do anything good. "Well it must be illegal or the guy who created student debt peonage in the first place and constantly voted to slash bankruptcy protections for everyone who isn't a business over his entire career would surely do something about the mess he happily created in the first place" they insist, desperately pasting together the pieces of their cracking worldview VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 21:36
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Booourns posted:https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1455716232007757825/photo/2 The fact that there are any dems at all that think that Trump is somehow unpopular with republicans is one of the most deranged things this year.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:37
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What if the thing that governed society was material conditions - i.e. the system by which we produce and distribute the commodities that sustain our society and reproduce our social relations, which is run by and for those who have ownership of the productive capital - and not some words written on a piece of paper a long time ago?
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Nov 3, 2021 21:38
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Srice posted:The fact that there are any dems at all that think that Trump is somehow unpopular with republicans is one of the most deranged things this year. Apparently they sent those ads to Democratic voters to scare them
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Nov 3, 2021 21:42
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Booourns posted:https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1455716232007757825/photo/2 just incredible Normy posted:Apparently they sent those ads to Democratic voters to scare them just incredibly dumb
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Nov 3, 2021 21:46
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Herstory Begins Now posted:just incredible or, hear me out, they're the same party! 
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Nov 3, 2021 21:50
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Yinlock posted:The correlation seems fairly substantive. Biden's current poll numbers are dipping precisely because his administration are somewhat justifiably seen as do-nothings, while Trump was actually clawing his approval back up via actively fighting for things he wanted(even if those things were all horrible) until the pandemic really hit and he nosedived again Is that true? The big decline in approval over time I see coincides with the best thing he's done as president: pull out from Afghanistan
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Nov 3, 2021 21:50
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Booourns posted:https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1455716232007757825/photo/2
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Nov 3, 2021 21:51
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Just because the campaign was bad doesn't mean every individual thing they did was bad; sending those in a way that is targeted towards people who do not like Trump probably isn't the worst idea. If you're going to make your whole campaign "try to frame this conservative cosplaying as a moderate as a Trump acolyte," as McAuliffe inadvisedly did, then it's probably a good idea. The problem, though, is that the overall campaign strategy sucked, rather than that particular implementation of it. Just more money spent not making an affirmative case to vote for Democrats.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:52
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Normy posted:Apparently they sent those ads to Democratic voters to scare them Considering the state went +10 Biden, it wasn't a bad initial assumption to assume that tying Trump into the race would actually help Dems. The problem was that they kept doubling down on this while Youngkin managed a pretty good balancing act of appearing both completely separate from Trump and also Trump's favorite candidate. I'm guessing they were betting he wouldn't be able to keep his mask on the whole race, but it's a strategy that they were complete idiots for not reworking after a bit. Really I'm not sure it had anything to do with how the race turned out, it may even have worked for bringing up Dem turnout and the thing that sunk them was solely schools. Because boy is everyone really mad about schools, on both sides. The COVID measures for reopening were so half assed that schools were/are constantly shifting their guidelines and policies and going from online to in person back to online. They just didn't do enough and didn't have a strong statewide response. Edit: The CRT stuff is bait, but it works because parents have many other genuine issues with schools and school districts that never end up being addressed or fixed. The school system is hosed and everyone knows it, but COVID forced them to deal with it's inadequacies way more than normal and made it a very in your face directly impacting you issue. Zeron fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 21:52
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Delthalaz posted:Is that true? The big decline in approval over time I see coincides with the best thing he's done as president: pull out from Afghanistan That just made us LOSERS.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:53
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Sanguinia posted:Ah yes, notoriously bad societal practice "The Rule of Law." What we really need is more Ceasars in modern politics. Caesar was assassinated because he liked to give money and food to the poor people, which endeared them to him, because the rich had gobbled up all the land and revenue streams available to normal people. Also because he thought the dirty Gauls and other conquered people should have a say in the legal system of Rome, which would threaten the stranglehold of the patriarchs and senators. Frankly Caesar kind of gets a bad rap. Maybe more Caesars who weren't constrained by the Rule of Law and were willing to expand their voter base through public welfare would indeed be beneficial. Also all you dweebs saying the president can't make weed legal, he could just direct the DOJ and the federal government to just ignore the law and pretend it doesn't exist, but he won't even do that for his own campaign workers who thought they might have a shot.
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Nov 3, 2021 21:57
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Mellow Seas posted:Just because the campaign was bad doesn't mean every individual thing they did was bad; sending those in a way that is targeted towards people who do not like Trump probably isn't the worst idea. If you're going to make your whole campaign "try to frame this conservative cosplaying as a moderate as a Trump acolyte," as McAuliffe inadvisedly did, then it's probably a good idea. counterpoint: there's a way of going negative that isn't literally sending out promotional materials for your opponent. also how many dems in 2021 aren't actively connecting republicans to all the bad poo poo the gop stands for
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Nov 3, 2021 21:57
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Herstory Begins Now posted:counterpoint: there's a way of going negative that isn't literally sending out promotional materials for your opponent. The party leadership and cash-base lol
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Nov 3, 2021 21:59
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The mailers I got from the Youngkin campaign emphasized over and over that Terry McAuliffe thinks parents are stupid and should have no say in what's taught in public schools.Zeron posted:Considering the state went +10 Biden, it wasn't a bad initial assumption to assume that tying Trump into the race would actually help Dems. The problem was that they kept doubling down on this while Youngkin managed a pretty good balancing act of appearing both completely separate from Trump and also Trump's favorite candidate. I'm guessing they were betting he wouldn't be able to keep his mask on the whole race, but it's a strategy that they were complete idiots for not reworking after a bit. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 22:00
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This isn't in response to any particular person, and isn't directly relevant to the rescheduling talk, but is kind of interesting context: in terms of bureaucrats doing things the slow way, the news made the rounds a few weeks ago that DEA is looking to significantly increase the legal production of weed and a bunch of other schedule 1-2 drugs for research due to increasing medical interest. quote:Based on the increase in research and clinical trial applications, DEA has proposed increases in 3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA), 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), 5-Methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, Dimethyltryptamine, Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), Marihuana, Marihuana Extract, Mescaline, Psilocybin, Psilocyn, and All Other Tetrahydrocannabinols to support manufacturing activities related to the increased level of research and clinical trials with these schedule I controlled substances. https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...d-assessment-of Several of the increases are in the triple or quadruple digit percentages. Five hundred grams of LSD is quite a bit of LSD. As far as unilateral executive action, here's a Brookings article from 2016 regarding rescheduling and emphasizing, among other things, that in their view strong public approval for Obama's (in)actions under enforcement discretion meant they were likely to stick. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixg...-state-systems/ I mention it not so much for the rescheduling content but because it's the Brookings Institute enthusiastically supporting a regulatory scheme allowing for blatant violation of the laws on the books. e: grammar eviltastic fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 22:03
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Mellow Seas posted:Just because the campaign was bad doesn't mean every individual thing they did was bad; sending those in a way that is targeted towards people who do not like Trump probably isn't the worst idea. If you're going to make your whole campaign "try to frame this conservative cosplaying as a moderate as a Trump acolyte," as McAuliffe inadvisedly did, then it's probably a good idea. *makes campaign ads for my opponent* "Look hear me out here: those were really good ads. He won didn't he, poo poo my ads were so good I almost voted for him"
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Nov 3, 2021 22:04
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Yinlock posted:The correlation seems fairly substantive. Biden's current poll numbers are dipping precisely because his administration are somewhat justifiably seen as do-nothings, while Trump was actually clawing his approval back up via actively fighting for things he wanted(even if those things were all horrible) until the pandemic really hit and he nosedived again ...I can't believe I'm loving saying this, but I'm actually going to give Trump something resembling a compliment: The loving demented motherfucker was Evil but he loving tried. He fought to get his sick gently caress agenda passed. He actually got parts of it codified, even if temporary. He was aggressive as President, and it loving worked The Dems are on a ruddlerless ship being steered by Capitalist Mr. Magoo, they could have passed this loving poo poo in September to massive applause, but they let complete loving morons and stooges like Manchin and Sinema hold everything up. And where the gently caress are the Executive Orders? Motherfucker you could wipe out student debt and legalize weed in a day, and be the most popular President in a 100 loving years.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:06
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VitalSigns posted:*makes campaign ads for my opponent* This isn't a strategy that was invented by Terry McAuliffe, or probably even by Democrats, and I don't want to let his lovely campaign consultants off the hook; they absolutely lost the race. But that ain't it. Herstory Begins Now posted:counterpoint: there's a way of going negative that isn't literally sending out promotional materials for your opponent. I recall seeing an exit poll number yesterday that was like 72% "voted for my candidate" vs 28% "voted against the other". Not sure how that compares to your typical election, but McAuliffe needed to make a better case for himself. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 22:09
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If Biden legalized weed , how would he get legal slavery in prison to prop up the economy ? If he erased student debt (which he could do but won’t) how would he show his utter spite and contempt for millennials? People say Trump is hateful , but Biden is extremely toxic and hateful.
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Nov 3, 2021 22:09
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Is it really that dumb to try to tie a politician to another incredibly unpopular politician? Hold on I'm getting word about the 2020 election... HE GOT HOW MANY VOTES?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:10
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VitalSigns posted:I get what you're saying, but I think the more salient point is Obama did break the law in spirit ("secret deliberations within the executive branch where we all agreed 'yep lets murder this American citizen' is 'due process'" lol) and in letter (illegal wiretapping, retaliating against whistle-blowers on said illegal surveillance) but because he did it for bad things to benefit bad people liberals don't care about thaaaaaat Piggybacking on this: the Biden administration has been weaponizing public health laws to deport as many immigrants as possible. It had been ruled illegal, but the administration appealed that decision continued to fight for it in appeals and got a judge to overturn the ruling that they had to stop That, to me, is what an administration exercising power looks like. They didn't spend endless time navel-gazing over legal memos, they just moved with alacrity to do something they wanted to do and bent the law to their will, and the justifications are all post hoc
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Nov 3, 2021 22:10
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TulliusCicero posted:...I can't believe I'm loving saying this, but I'm actually going to give Trump something resembling a compliment: read the thread before kramering in with a hot take that biden could just legalize weed with an executive order when the last 2 pages have been about why he can't do that because laws are a thing
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Nov 3, 2021 22:23
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So has congress said jack poo poo about reconciliation today after last nights poo poo show?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:23
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Piggybacking on this: the Biden administration has been weaponizing public health laws to deport as many immigrants as possible. It had been ruled illegal, but the administration appealed that decision continued to fight for it in appeals and got a judge to overturn the ruling that they had to stop In the end, rich people get what they want. The ruling class gets what it wants. It’s only the little people who have to fight the system, and keep losing until they maybe win some of what they wanted. We’re not asking you to even win, we’re asking you to fight, and the reasons you won’t even fight sound like someone with no fight left in them desperately paging through the rule boom to get an excuse to not do their job. The gently caress am I going to donate or phone bank for such a lazy, incompetent bunch of losers for? What’s the motivation for the base? selec fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 22:23
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I'm pretty unfazed by claims that a president forgiving student loans by executive order and daring the court to strike it down is a slippery slope to...uh...a president with unlimited power to uhhh forgives even more loans??? Even if that's bad for some reason, thanks to the expansion of executive power under Obama the president can be a dictator at any time because he has the unlimited power to assassinate political rivals at will as long as he takes care to say that after secret evidence presented at internal deliberations within the executive branch between officials he personally appointed they were deemed an imminent that to national security, and no one can overrule this decision or even see the evidence or exert any kind of oversight. The only remedy is impeachment which is (1) impotent as long as he has 34 supporters in the senate, but even if he doesn't (2) drones move faster than congressional deliberations. As long as Democrats support that executive power anything they say about how rescheduling weed is dangerous slippery-slope executive overreach is a crock of poo poo imo. If they were actually that worried about Trump coming back and being a dictator they'd pass a law rolling back all of Obama and Bush's power grabs but they dooooon't VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 3, 2021 |
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Nov 3, 2021 22:23
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MooselanderII posted:The Rule of Law: resuming student loan payments that have been on hold for 22 months for no reason other than pure generational strife and bootstraps. I assume that ideally, you'd like to see the loans forgiven, but (and this is a serious question. This isn't a gotcha or a rhetorical thing) assuming that doesn't happen, when should the deferments expire? What should the trigger be to restart it?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:25
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HonorableTB posted:read the thread before kramering in with a hot take that biden could just legalize weed with an executive order when the last 2 pages have been about why he can't do that because laws are a thing What prevents Biden from pardoning all victims of the war on drugs, today?
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Nov 3, 2021 22:27
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