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InsertPotPun posted:should we start a poll to see how to handle people who advocate for direct action? Why bother, mods don't abide by the results.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:03
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So was there any actual votes today or did everything get punted?
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Nov 5, 2021 23:09
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SpaceCadetBob posted:So was there any actual votes today or did everything get punted? As of this moment, Pelosi is trying to rally Republicans to vote for the bipartisan bill tonight because she believes the progressives will not. BBB is shelved for the moment.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:18
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It's extremely funny how Third Way's political revolution was "hey what if we sold out completely to Big Money then we'd have the cash to buy elections just the Republicans!" but oops the apotheosis of their brilliant strategy was reached by Sinema and Manchin and turns out Big Money is less interested in helping Dems win and more interested in making sure they don't do anything for the 99% if they do win. "OK we purged everyone who won't do everything you want and replaced them with your lickspittles can we have some money to win we promise if we do we won't do anything too progressive, just enough to run on if that's okay" "Oh we know you won't do anything too progressive here's the cash" *Dems win* "Omg why are Manchin and Sinema blocking even the slightest progressive stuff we need to run on, it's like someone is paying them to be their lickspittle 😭" And by funny I mean horrible
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Nov 5, 2021 23:18
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People respond to direct action and results. The Democratic Party has done nothing to help people lately, at all. Forgive student loan debt and say "See? SEE WHAT I DID FOR YOU" You have got to put your name on the check like Trump did. This isn't hard. At all. Biden simply absolutely hates young people and his perceived "entitlement" they have.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:20
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:As of this moment, Pelosi is trying to rally Republicans to vote for the bipartisan bill tonight because she believes the progressives will not. BBB is shelved for the moment. just a own-goal of mythic proportions
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Nov 5, 2021 23:20
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:As of this moment, Pelosi is trying to rally Republicans to vote for the bipartisan bill tonight because she believes the progressives will not. BBB is shelved for the moment. Oh, lol. Surely she’ll be able to manage that. Republicans must be salivating at a chance to murder the only leverage the BBB had to get passed.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:21
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SpaceCadetBob posted:So was there any actual votes today or did everything get punted? Stuff's happening right now. https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/1456747946364518403 https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1456746927761022994 (Daily Beast and NBC News reporters, there. Matt Fuller in particular is a very reliable House-rep-understander.) e: I think that what's going on is a vote on a discharge petition allowing consideration of the BBB legislation, subject to a point of order raised by Rep. Jason Smith (R-MO) relating to CBO scoring. eviltastic fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Nov 5, 2021 |
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Nov 5, 2021 23:23
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Shrecknet posted:lol it would own so much if Pelosi passes the BIB with GOP support stabbing progressives in the back and lets Manchin kill BBB like he always wanted to. They'll use the progressive non vote as a reason to push them out (how dare you not support biden's agenda) and never talk about the BBB again.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:28
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Meatball posted:They'll use the progressive non vote as a reason to push them out (how dare you not support biden's agenda) and never talk about the BBB again. The BBB is Biden's agenda, WTF are you talking about. The progressive caucus are the only ones standing up for it.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:32
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Darkrenown posted:Why bother, mods don't abide by the results.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:32
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Trying to pass the bipartisan bill first is explicitly backstabbing the progressives right? They've never wavered on their demand to pass reconciliation first so this is directly asking them to vote it down or capitulate. I thought the white house was on our side for once, but gently caress it, sink the bill imo.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I could be wrong, but minimizing the economy in favor of "education" seems like a bad midterm strategy. People care more about racism than money. And that's all "education" is. Just "bussing" for the new generation. Having said that, people are going to blame the incumbents for the economy no matter what so they don't really need to run on that. poo poo costing more and having shortages is bad for the party in power and it's unlikely to clear up before 2022 so Democrats are probably hosed even if they DID pass some good laws and get their messaging together. Which they won't.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:36
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Magic Underwear posted:Trying to pass the bipartisan bill first is explicitly backstabbing the progressives right? They've never wavered on their demand to pass reconciliation first so this is directly asking them to vote it down or capitulate. I thought the white house was on our side for once, but gently caress it, sink the bill imo. From the sounds of it the white house is fighting for the bbb vote. Seems like pelosi is the one going for the killshot.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:37
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Shrecknet posted:lol it would own so much if Pelosi passes the BIB with GOP support stabbing progressives in the back and lets Manchin kill BBB like he always wanted to.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:37
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Deteriorata posted:The BBB is Biden's agenda, WTF are you talking about. The progressive caucus are the only ones standing up for it. Yes but it's the part being set up to fail by conservative dems. They will push Bif and if it passes kill BBB instantly
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Nov 5, 2021 23:44
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Deteriorata posted:The BBB is Biden's agenda, WTF are you talking about. The progressive caucus are the only ones standing up for it. They are trying to do is pass the BIF bill and leave the BBB for later. When the progressives don't vote for the BIF alone, Pelosi shits all over them for not supporting Biden's BIF bill, and either shelve the BBB act or just have Manchin kill it in the senate. They're dropping Biden's agenda. Will they take it up again? Doubtful, since Manchin is against all of it and he isn't going anywhere.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:49
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InsertPotPun posted:sh-should we start a poll to see if they'll abide by the results?
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Nov 5, 2021 23:52
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Meatball posted:They are trying to do is pass the BIF bill and leave the BBB for later. When the progressives don't vote for the BIF alone, Pelosi shits all over them for not supporting Biden's BIF bill, and either shelve the BBB act or just have Manchin kill it in the senate. They're not voting directly on the BIF at the moment, it's a procedural vote to move it toward passage. If it fails it can be redone later. Your scenario doesn't make much sense, but that's never stopped you before, I guess.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:53
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Meatball posted:They are trying to do is pass the BIF bill and leave the BBB for later. When the progressives don't vote for the BIF alone, Pelosi shits all over them for not supporting Biden's BIF bill, and either shelve the BBB act or just have Manchin kill it in the senate. I don't think that's what's happening https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1456754021956526087 The CPC seems to be holding for now, and this open vote demonstrates that they have the votes to kill BIF. Pelosi can't do anything without the CPC or GOP votes.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:54
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I mean once the moderates demanded a CBO score for the house BBB bill, nothing interesting was going to happen today. The progressives weren’t going to abandon their strategy and bail Pelosi out, and McCarthy wasn’t going to let anyone help her, so it’s weird she didn’t just tell everyone to go home. Seems like a misfire to have gone ahead with this vote.
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Nov 5, 2021 23:55
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't think that's what's happening
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Nov 5, 2021 23:59
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Deteriorata posted:They're not voting directly on the BIF at the moment, it's a procedural vote to move it toward passage. If it fails it can be redone later. I am very confused, because as near as I can tell what's actually under consideration relates to BBB, not BIF. Unfortunately the actual text of the resolution in question isn't on congress.gov. edit: Per the House clerk's office, it's H. Res. 774. https://clerk.house.gov/FloorSummary#FloorProceedings eviltastic fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 00:01
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CNN, Erin Burnett all about blaming failure of Biden's agenda on Progressives and Jayapal not voting on his bills. Going absolute Ham.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:05
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God please Don't bargain yourselves out of the upper hand here CPC leadership https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/1456761246368337924 https://twitter.com/HotlineJosh/status/1456761634626711552 https://twitter.com/mikedebonis/status/1456761737395507200  Sounds like the line is holding Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 00:13
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Mellow Seas posted:I mean once the moderates demanded a CBO score for the house BBB bill, nothing interesting was going to happen today. The progressives weren’t going to abandon their strategy and bail Pelosi out, and McCarthy wasn’t going to let anyone help her, so it’s weird she didn’t just tell everyone to go home. Seems like a misfire to have gone ahead with this vote. So is that the current goal post? They get the CBO score then they'll vote or are they going to get fucky again in the future?
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Nov 6, 2021 00:19
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Flopsy posted:So is that the current goal post? They get the CBO score then they'll vote or are they going to get fucky again in the future? It isn't a good faith demand, the bill would certainly be changed a lot in the senate, invalidating the report, and they know that. They just want to pressure progressives to capitulate.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:23
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't think that's what's happening Well, that's good to hear. I'm glad to say I was wrong.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:23
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I think this is the hardest I've seen pressure put on the Progressives thus far. But this would also be used an excuse to kick them out. They'll probably make a backroom deal with the Republicans and position the Progressives as hurting the Dems. Which is also what they'd want.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:24
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Magic Underwear posted:It isn't a good faith demand, the bill would certainly be changed a lot in the senate, invalidating report, and they know that. They just want to pressure progressives to capitulate. Yeah, the entire point is to keep dragging it out and stalling over and over and over until enough people get so goddamn worn out and sick and tired of dealing with it that they'll agree to settle on it being an expired Hot Topic gift card just so they can finally say it's passed and over with.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:25
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Gatts posted:I think this is the hardest I've seen pressure put on the Progressives thus far. Not really. The GOP gets to humiliate Nancy Pelosi by letting her caucus be divided. They have no interest in saving her. It is the most pressure put on them to this point, but if they hold then we will see what leadership does next. Edit: they're actually saying what needs to be said https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1456765658033790979 Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 00:27
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I think none of us ever fathomed how loving sadistic Manchin would get when given even a taste of power.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:31
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Gatts posted:I think this is the hardest I've seen pressure put on the Progressives thus far. Wouldn’t that just hurt them come primary season when their challengers point out they compromised with Nancy Pelosi? I’m not sure they gain anything by throwing her a lifeline
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Nov 6, 2021 00:32
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Main Paineframe posted:Having kids cooped up at home doing remote learning during the pandemic has made schools and child policy more prominent in parents' minds than usual, I'd imagine. Parents feel abandoned by society, and are getting contempt when they get vocal about it. I think all the crt / culture war crap is a smoke screen. Parents don’t give a poo poo about that. The right is putting that up to make it appear like that the issue. The real issue is that the pandemic was botched and remote school was a poo poo show and now parents have to deal with the fallout in their kids while getting blamed for it. Some percentage will vote with the racist monsters responsible for most of the problem out of anger.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:32
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I recall Jake Sherman being Politico alumni and an access-journalism uncritical amplifier type, so grain of salt, but: https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1456761461729112065 https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1456764338300203012 (the guy he's responding to in #2 is the co-founder of his newsletter) So if that's right, then it seems the call with Biden mentioned earlier was about locking in the moderates to voting on BBB first, and pinning them down based on the demand for a CBO score. eviltastic fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Nov 6, 2021 |
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Nov 6, 2021 00:34
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:God please Don't bargain yourselves out of the upper hand here CPC leadership
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Nov 6, 2021 00:37
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If they accept a statement for their vote then its not a great look or bargain
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Nov 6, 2021 00:37
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Hellblazer187 posted:Edit: Also, does 'direct action' always mean crimes.txt? Can't it also mean like, giving sandwiches to the homeless or trying to unionize a workplace? As has been pointed out elsewhere, those things can also be crimes.txt for certain folks.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:42
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Not really. The GOP gets to humiliate Nancy Pelosi by letting her caucus be divided. They have no interest in saving her. I hope good things happen but I'm doubtful. I haven't seen this kind of pressure put on Manchin and the Centrist/Right Dems but that's because that's where Clyburn+Dem Leadership lie. Not that they give a poo poo, they enjoy being psycho-sociopaths. Also I realize Erin Burnett is the wife of the Managing Director of Citibank and began her career at Goldman Sachs. lol no wonder why she's always beating up on Progressives. Erin, Anderson, Cuomo all come from privilege and don't want to contribute to bettering people's lives.
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Nov 6, 2021 00:44
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Flopsy posted:I think none of us ever fathomed how loving sadistic Manchin would get when given even a taste of power. ohhh I'm pretty sure if you dig back to about a day after Warnock and Ossoff were sworn in, this was pretty clearly predicted
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Nov 6, 2021 00:44
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