|
Zeron posted:Six Democrats against, 13 Republicans for. They had just enough hall passes for the Squad (I assume). It's... manufactured, right? Like if they didn't get those other GOP votes "the squad" would have buckled, and not sunk the bill themselves. I guess we'll never know for sure but that's how I'm leaning right now..
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 04:56 |
|
|
# ? May 25, 2024 06:41 |
|
Blind Pineapple posted:I actually do believe the house moderates will live up to their end of the bargain and vote for BBB this month, but is there any other endgame here besides the senate butchering the bill to the point of worthlessness, or just voting it down outright behind Sinema and Manchin? Everything he wanted was in the BIF bill, which only exists because he demanded it
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 04:57 |
|
Blind Pineapple posted:I actually do believe the house moderates will live up to their end of the bargain and vote for BBB this month, but is there any other endgame here besides the senate butchering the bill to the point of worthlessness, or just voting it down outright behind Sinema and Manchin? Nope! Manchin and Sinema have absolutely zero reason to support any of the progressive agenda in what remains of the BBB bill now. A SALT repeal may be the Democrats biggest accomplishment with it.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 04:58 |
|
Hellblazer187 posted:It's... manufactured, right? Like if they didn't get those other GOP votes "the squad" would have buckled, and not sunk the bill themselves. I guess we'll never know for sure but that's how I'm leaning right now.. Pressley didn't vote until it was over 218, so at least one of them was waiting to see. FlamingLiberal posted:Most likely scenario is that Manchin walks away He still wants some stuff in the BBB, but the major infrastructure projects were all taken out of the original BBB and put into the BIF. Manchin and Sinema have already agreed to the current BBB framework and in a normal world that would be fine for giving the go-ahead to pass laws to fix our 30-year gap in infrastructure repairs. But, we live in a hellworld, so you can't take anything they say for sure. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Nov 6, 2021 |
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:01 |
|
Hellblazer187 posted:It's... manufactured, right? Like if they didn't get those other GOP votes "the squad" would have buckled, and not sunk the bill themselves. I guess we'll never know for sure but that's how I'm leaning right now.. Yep. Once they confirm the total number of votes they'll give away the margins a bit to let some of their members appear to have more integrity than they actually do. If it had been a genuine defection, they would have dragged more of the caucus with them and it would have been a lot messier. It's pretty common, you get a lot of legislators who somehow only vote against the party when it won't matter.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:01 |
|
Yet again progressives show they'll cave. The party really is spineless all the way down unless it comes to crushing the left.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:05 |
|
Alright, so let's say the 1.85 trillion passes as it currently stands. What is the view then?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:07 |
|
Mendrian posted:I don't know what's worse; bbb being dead or something called bbb eventually being passed that actually sucks rear end. I'd say the latter, because that comes with a heaping dose of op-ed dipshits lecturing us on how "half of the loose change they find in the couch" was the REAL goal all along and better than anyone had any right to reasonably expect and having a problem with that makes you a big dumb baby.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:07 |
|
Shammypants posted:Alright, so let's say the 1.85 trillion passes as it currently stands. What is the view then?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:10 |
I'm not fixing to go dig it up but man I keep thinking back to that big long effortpost someone wrote in the previous version of this thread a month or two ago about how the CPC held all the cards and the Blue Dogs were toast, and wondering how in the world they convinced themselves of that given how this has played out. Just absolutely no respect for your enemies
|
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:10 |
|
the_steve posted:op-ed dipshits lecturing us on how "half of the loose change they find in the couch" was the REAL goal all along and better than anyone had any right to reasonably expect and having a problem with that makes you a big dumb baby. I thought we were supposed to stop this sort of interforum squabbling. edit - oh wait you meant editorials in newspapers, I apologize.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:10 |
|
Shammypants posted:Alright, so let's say the 1.85 trillion passes as it currently stands. What is the view then? Then, it doesn't really matter in the end. But, progressives took a risk in trusting Manchin and Sinema to keep their word. In a normal functional world, it shouldn't be a big deal since they have agreements with members of their own party. But, Manchin and Sinema have proven they can't be trusted to operate in good faith and that makes people justifiably nervous.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:12 |
|
Shammypants posted:Alright, so let's say the 1.85 trillion passes as it currently stands. What is the view then?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:14 |
|
Shammypants posted:Alright, so let's say the 1.85 trillion passes as it currently stands. What is the view then? If the House Moderates and Sinema and Manchin keep their word and the BBB program goes through as-is, it's still got a lot of good things in it despite all the topline cuts because the focus was shortening program lengths and keeping benefits in and without means testing. Add the Infrastrucuture bill and its more than 3 trillion dollars in social programs and national development investment. What will matter after that is 1) how many people feel a practical effect from it 2) how quickly 3) how it effects economic indicators the media reports on, like the stock market and jobs reports 3b) how the economy recovers from the logistics shock/inflationary forces in the next 12 months and if this helps and 4) how the party sells it on the 2022 Campaign Trail. Add in a 5) anything else they can manage to accomplish in the next year, including the handling of any international or domestic crises that happen to pop up.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:16 |
|
Well, I guess the positive is that we only have to wait 10 days for the predictions of Dem implosion to come true now
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:20 |
|
Shammypants posted:Alright, so let's say the 1.85 trillion passes as it currently stands. What is the view then? It's a poo poo bill that should have been better, but it has some good stuff in it that will help people, and the progressives punching themselves repeatedly in the genitals turns out not to have screwed us all. If this "tactic" makes a poo poo bill worse, then...
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:20 |
|
Since it has been almost 5 months (!?!?!) since they stripped the "hard infrastructure" from the original BBB to make the BIF, here's a quick reminder of what is in it and how it differs from the original BBB "hard infrastructure" spending. Short Version: quote:— Replacing every lead water pipe in the country More detailed version with the differences (mostly cuts) between the original BBB infrastructure proposals and the BIF versions. quote:The bill calls for investing $110 billion for roads, bridges and major infrastructure projects. That's significantly less than the $159 billion that Biden initially requested in the American Jobs Plan. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/politics/infrastructure-bill-explained/index.html Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Nov 6, 2021 |
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:34 |
|
ex post facho posted:Yeah, they showed that they can be safely ignored. They sacrificed all their leverage after months of insisting they'd only vote on the bills in tandem. Unironically, with the games the repubs have played with voting, this act of impotence has a very good chance of ending the dems as a meaningful political entity.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:36 |
|
Sanguinia posted:If the House Moderates and Sinema and Manchin keep their word Oh my god this is too sad. Can you even hear yourself right now?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:39 |
|
Sharkie posted:Oh my god this is too sad. Can you even hear yourself right now?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:40 |
|
JT Jag posted:That post was directly in response to a theoretical of if everything went perfectly, it was not an implication of belief that everything will go perfectly "Kyrsten chuckled absently as she began strapping on the dynamite vest. Finally, finally, her moment had arrived..."
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:44 |
|
Go to CNN to see news for the day. See headline touting "Big win for Biden." Come in here, SPINELESS COWARDS BROKE THEY'VE HANDED EVERYTHING BACK TO THE REPUBLICANS WHY ARE THESE FUCKERS SO WORTHLESS. I'm very confused. This forum does swing to the nihilistic but not to THIS degree.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:49 |
I wonder if the telecoms are actually gonna build rural broadband this time or it'll be like every other time they've been funneled shitloads of money for rural broadband where they just took the money and then just never did any of it and nobody cared. Manchin being one of the big boosters of it this time doesn't really reassure me thoughCornwind Evil posted:Go to CNN to see news for the day. See headline touting "Big win for Biden." Have you ever considered that maybe CNN is misinforming you
|
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:50 |
|
The House just passed the rule to consider the BBB reconciliation bill, so that will allow them to schedule a vote for the full bill. Every House Dem voted in favor and every Republican against. https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1456844871000596480 The House version is probably going to be fine. But, who knows if the Senate decides to stick to the terms. The Senate will almost definitely remove the 4 weeks of paid leave the House added back in and change the SALT changes the House made (in a rare case of the Senate version being better than the House version). Other than that, who knows?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:51 |
|
Pelosi and the major members of the Democratic Party partnered with republicans in order to make progressives look bad and eat poo poo. Clearly the party that sides with republicans is the harm reduction party.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:52 |
|
Cornwind Evil posted:Go to CNN to see news for the day. See headline touting "Big win for Biden." CNN: corporatist liberals This thread: leftists
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:53 |
|
Cornwind Evil posted:Go to CNN to see news for the day. See headline touting "Big win for Biden." That's because it's a big win for the giant media conglomerate that owns CNN.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:55 |
|
Cornwind Evil posted:Go to CNN to see news for the day. See headline touting "Big win for Biden." Oh you'll have roads and electricity. Well some people will. If you're homeless or nearly homeless or just hosed in general well, not a lot is going to change for you. See the actual important bill is the other one, the one that will now die because there is no leverage. There will be no climate change provisions, no help for the poor and suffering. The rich got richer, so yes, Biden won. But everyone else is going to continue to get poorer.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:57 |
|
https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1456823459560972288
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 05:59 |
|
Progressives just ate a world ending turd and by Monday it will be their fault that BBB is dead.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:00 |
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Since it has been almost 5 months (!?!?!) since they stripped the "hard infrastructure" from the original BBB to make the BIF, here's a quick reminder of what is in it and how it differs from the original BBB "hard infrastructure" spending. I hope you're getting either overtime or a 6-figure salary for all the work you do.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:01 |
|
TheIncredulousHulk posted:I wonder if the telecoms are actually gonna build rural broadband this time or it'll be like every other time they've been funneled shitloads of money for rural broadband where they just took the money and then just never did any of it and nobody cared. Manchin being one of the big boosters of it this time doesn't really reassure me though Thankfully, this broadband expansion proposal actually supports municipal and co-op broadband providers and requires commercial providers to service an area before they can get paid. quote:Historically, the government has subsidized the building of broadband networks by offering incentives to private companies such as Verizon, Comcast and AT&T (which owns WarnerMedia, CNN's parent company). The one thing I genuinely don't have much knowledge on is how municipal and co-op providers tend to compare in speed to major telecom networks when they are being developed in areas with no broadband access at all. Some of the larger municipal fiber projects have been 1 gig+ downloads, but I don't know if that same thing is replicable in rural Montana from scratch. 200 mb download/25 mb upload when you had nothing is still huge, but it's not the same as a highly integrated fiber network. That stat that 44% of homes in Cleveland don't have access to broadband seems insane. How can a major urban area have almost half of its houses not have broadband access? If 56% do have access, then how hard is it to expand that network to the rest of the city? Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Nov 6, 2021 |
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:01 |
|
Can we increase Congress to about 50,000 people
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:02 |
|
Regarde Aduck posted:See the actual important bill is the other one, the one that will now die because there is no leverage. Correct me if I'm wrong, is this the leverage that didn't exist because Manchin and Sinema refuse/keep refusing/refused to budge and outside of a magic spell mind controlling them to do something for someone else instead of just themselves (removing them via expulsion or sudden death would just get new Republicans voted into their spots, right? Hence rendering the whole thing moot) it would just go in circles until the Republicans seize control of everything in a year because voters have the memories of a allegorical goldfish? Or is that a different bill/piece of legislation? Because really, all these issues start to blur together after a while. Also, if CNN is no good, where should I go?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:06 |
|
Cornwind Evil posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, is this the leverage that didn't exist because Manchin and Sinema refuse/keep refusing/refused to budge and outside of a magic spell mind controlling them to do something for someone else instead of just themselves (removing them via expulsion or sudden death would just get new Republicans voted into their spots, right? Hence rendering the whole thing moot) it would just go in circles until the Republicans seize control of everything in a year because voters have the memories of a allegorical goldfish? Or is that a different bill/piece of legislation? Because really, all these issues start to blur together after a while. There's nothing wrong with getting your news from CNN, you should just be aware of their biases that affect what they report, what they don't report, and how they report it.
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:10 |
|
BIF still needs to pass the senate though, right? Isn't it still possible that either Bernie or someone refuses to vote for it, or the 10 needed GOP votes decide they want changes or don't want to go with it? Or did I miss it being a done deal already?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:11 |
|
Darkrenown posted:BIF still needs to pass the senate though, right? Isn't it still possible that either Bernie or someone refuses to vote for it, or the 10 needed GOP votes decide they want changes or don't want to go with it? Or did I miss it being a done deal already? save us bernie one your my only hope https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1456826256167739392
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:13 |
Darkrenown posted:BIF still needs to pass the senate though, right? Isn't it still possible that either Bernie or someone refuses to vote for it, or the 10 needed GOP votes decide they want changes or don't want to go with it? Or did I miss it being a done deal already? The Senate already passed it, but there's a 0.0% chance Sanders would have spiked it even if they hadn't
|
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:14 |
|
RIP to bitcoin. https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1456846830847803392 (Not actually killing it, but it now has a lot of mandatory reporting requirements from anyone that sells more than $10k worth of crypto in a year, all exchanges have to provide tax information to the IRS, and businesses that accept more than $10k in crypto from a single customer have to report the transaction to the IRS.) It is kind of hilarious that crypto proponents think that subjecting bitcoin to the same requirements as cash and stocks makes it "unusable as a currency."
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:14 |
|
|
# ? May 25, 2024 06:41 |
|
Darkrenown posted:BIF still needs to pass the senate though, right? Isn't it still possible that either Bernie or someone refuses to vote for it, or the 10 needed GOP votes decide they want changes or don't want to go with it? Or did I miss it being a done deal already?
|
# ? Nov 6, 2021 06:14 |