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Firstscion posted:They just want to be right they want all their friends and family who made fun of them to come crawling back saying "oh you are so smart and right about everything. We should of never said those mean things about you." Yeah, it's 100% this. They want to be invited back to holiday dinners, but they can't admit that they were stupid and wrong, so now they need this political eschaton so that they can be "proven right all along" and rub it in the faces of their loved ones that have estranged them.
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Nov 6, 2021 19:14
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I brought it up before, I think in the post that gave this thread its current name, but yeah. It's one of the more unique aspects, in some ways, of the Qult; the apocalypse is not about the final victory of good over evil, but rather a literal apocalypse in the context of a revelation. The battle is already won; Trump (PBUH) has already defeated the Cabal; no direct action is necessary on the part of the faithful. Although that is needed is to keep the faith - trust the plan - for soon there will be the grand revelation and all those liberals - including insufficiently pious and devout family members who doubted - who have not been purged will be forced to see the truth and come crawling back, humiliated and desperate. For it is not the Qultists who are insane and delusional, no, it's everyone else. And that's what the grand revelation will be. The battle is already over. You don't need to do anything except keep the faith. All you need is your hatred and your arrogance; nothing else is necessary. pop fly to McGillicutty posted:"Everyone is a prophet" I shout as I refuse to read the passage in my "holy text" about how none can be a prophet. When did Trump or Reagan say no one could be a prophet? Fascism is their religion, not Christianity. Not even an extreme and conservative form of Christianity. The Q Drops are their modern religious texts, not the Bible.
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Nov 6, 2021 20:10
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The Bible is more like the stack of magazines they’re cutting up to write the ransom letter that’s their real holy text.
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Nov 7, 2021 00:30
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:The Q Drops are their modern religious texts, not the Bible. They don't read those either.
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Nov 7, 2021 01:00
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Q has explicitly states that JFK Jr is NOT, I repeat, NOT alive. He is dead. It doesn't matter. It's all about what gains traction, what sticks around, what Engages the audience, how they imitate one another's behavior. Many of them will pretend they are not members of QAnon (which itself is an order put out by Watkins!Q, and he did so because other Q people were doing the same thing). Fortunately it's a pretty obvious lie.
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Nov 7, 2021 09:56
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Yeah, I was going to say that one of the funniest wrinkles is that at one point the actual Q account borderline dropped character to tell people to stop embarrassing themselves with the JFK Jr. stuff and they just didn't give a poo poo. It's really the only saving grace of the whole thing. They're too disconnected to keep to a general strategy. The whole SaveTheChildren thing was kind of smart, but no one could shut up about adrenochrome and Satan for 5 loving seconds to draw in new members.
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Nov 7, 2021 10:42
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The man who started pizza gate is a naval intelligence officer
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Nov 7, 2021 17:39
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The Lone Badger posted:They don't read those either. TBF hardly anyone was ever reading the bible either; most of modern christianity is a massive scam to launder the story about a dirt-poor guy going around helping the poor and marginalized to "actually he was talking about a gate, it's totally fine to be rich." There is definitely a connection between how most devout American christians are hateful greedy bastards and how most don't actually read any q drops and have it interpreted for them by some internet preacher.
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Nov 7, 2021 18:21
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:The man who started pizza gate is a naval intelligence officer Not military, but from what I understand military intelligence is not particularly known as a haven of brilliant and stable minds.
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Nov 7, 2021 18:34
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Zeroisanumber posted:Not military, but from what I understand military intelligence is not particularly known as a haven of brilliant and stable minds. I remember when my dad used the phrase military intelligence to explain the definition of oxymoron.
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Nov 7, 2021 18:55
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Zeroisanumber posted:Not military, but from what I understand military intelligence is not particularly known as a haven of brilliant and stable minds. Military intelligence really just keeps the reports on enemy forces organized and maintains the maps and recon photos. They aren’t an investigative group or have any insight into anything. The most MI can tell you on anything is, we think about N of them are over there and they probably have guns.
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Nov 7, 2021 19:40
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Leon Sumbitches posted:I remember when my dad used the phrase military intelligence to explain the definition of oxymoron. That's not an oxymoron, an oxymoron is like swiss cheese.
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Nov 7, 2021 19:58
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pseudanonymous posted:That's not an oxymoron, an oxymoron is like swiss cheese. Oh, like rain on your wedding day.
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Nov 7, 2021 20:19
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Oh, like rain on your wedding day. No, like a non-profit business.
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Nov 7, 2021 23:39
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And Mike Flynn came from army intelligence. His job was to analyze reports from surveillance and informants and local allies. Piecing together bits of information, working out who were the terrorists, who to get airstriked from drones, who to get kidnapped or murdered or raped in the night by roided up psychopaths riding Blackhawks. In other words, why the United States lost the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US is intervening in a civil war on behalf of the side that knows how to play to the US's pre- and misconceptions, buying all the garbage info fed into their analytical engine, and pumping out nonsense that just angers the occupied populace and drives them to fight back against US aggression. So of course many of the loving morons in the deep state that run this analytical engine, like Flynn and Prilosec, get MAGAfied and Qpilled. The same intellectual apparatus that convinced itself an aid worker carried out a suicide bombing at Kabul airport would also convince itself that Nancy Pelosi is the CEO of A.N.T.I.F.A.
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Nov 8, 2021 02:41
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Rob Rockley posted:TBF hardly anyone was ever reading the bible either; most of modern christianity is a massive scam to launder the story about a dirt-poor guy going around helping the poor and marginalized to "actually he was talking about a gate, it's totally fine to be rich." There is definitely a connection between how most devout American christians are hateful greedy bastards and how most don't actually read any q drops and have it interpreted for them by some internet preacher. Jim Bakker famously hadn't actually read the Bible until he went to prison, and for a couple of years after he came out he actually preached a fairly mainstream Christian message... then he realised there was no money in it and went back to telling everyone that Jesus actually meant "You can totally get to Heaven even if you step over a homeless person to get to the All You Can Eat Buffet as long as you pledge now!". Phobophilia posted:And Mike Flynn came from army intelligence. His job was to analyze reports from surveillance and informants and local allies. Piecing together bits of information, working out who were the terrorists, who to get airstriked from drones, who to get kidnapped or murdered or raped in the night by roided up psychopaths riding Blackhawks. In other words, why the United States lost the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The US is intervening in a civil war on behalf of the side that knows how to play to the US's pre- and misconceptions, buying all the garbage info fed into their analytical engine, and pumping out nonsense that just angers the occupied populace and drives them to fight back against US aggression. There's a name for this phenomenon that I forget the name of - if you give an intelligence officer (or agency) an open-ended mission to find threats they will not only invent threats to fulfill that mission they will actually begin to genuinely fear the threat, inventing ever-more elaborate evidence for it to convince others, and then fearing the new, even scarier threat they've invented, effectively self-radicalising to the point that they convince themselves the Prime Ministers of the UK[1] and Australia[2] are KGB plants, that the US was preparing a decapitation nuclear strike on the USSR[3] or that a conversation about where to have lunch is evidence that there are a million mole children under Central Park. [1] MI5 - or more particularly Peter Wright and The Young Turks, a group of officers who joined the service after WW2 from outside the traditional Old Boys Network that controlled the agency - became convinced, after a series of probably coincidental failures, that there were multiple KGB moles at the very top of the UK establishment, accusing not only MI5 Director General Roger Hollis but also PM Harold Wilson of being in the pay of the Kremlin. In the latter they were helped by the Army intelligence infrastructure in Northern Ireland who didn't give a poo poo about the KGB but *did* know Wilson was less likely to tolerate the truly heinous poo poo they were up to over there. Between them they planted multiple smears in a press that was also itching to take Wilson down.[4] [2] Head of counterintelligence at the CIA (and big friend of Peter Wright) James Jesus Angleton, who would be dismissed as hacky if a fictional character, convinced himself that Gough Whitlam was in the pay of the KGB because Whitlam suspected that ASIO, the Australian equivalent of MI5, was involved with helping international terrorists, even going so far as raiding their offices for information they were refusing to supply with him. He hatched a plot to have Whitlam smeared and removed but the local station chief refused to play along - imagine a plot too crackpot for the 1970s CIA. [3] RYAN took us to the brink of nuclear war multiple times through completely ignoring evidence that contradicted the narrative that NATO were preparing a first strike - for example with Able Archer 83 they noted the large amounts of encrypted traffic between SHAEF and NATO governments, but not that there was no traffic going from SHAEF to field units and that the field units themselves were just carrying on as normal. Similarly they sent panicked notifications that Western leaders were suddenly dropping appointments and disappearing, as if they were heading for bunkers (which they were, that was part of the exercise) but not that they were doing this weeks apart because it was actually just an exercise so they worked around the schedules of the individual countries, something that you don't really do if you've just lit the match.
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Nov 8, 2021 10:51
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Mike Flynn did not become convinced that hillary clinton is murdering children for adrenochrome. That's not his role in this.
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Nov 8, 2021 11:25
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pseudanonymous posted:That's not an oxymoron, an oxymoron is like swiss cheese. I though it was a Utah opiate addict 
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Nov 8, 2021 11:40
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Uglycat posted:Mike Flynn did not become convinced that hillary clinton is murdering children for adrenochrome. Hey, I assume your break from the thread was because you were preparing a well-sourced and compelling dossier of evidence about the QAnon sockpuppets active on SA, with links to posts and explanations about the way you can tell them apart from a normal poster who just happens to disagree with your own, very particular, view of the world. Looking forward to reading it.
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Nov 8, 2021 12:39
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Flynn self-radicalized in the same way as millions of other boomers bouncing their brain waves off one another on social media self-radicalized. After this, he oscillated to the top of the poo poo pile due to his position in the US army. Remember, shortly after Jan 6th Flynn went out on some podcast saying "look shut up about Q having a plan, no one has a plan for reinstating President Trump" because there really isn't anyone at the wheel. No one does. Just a set of incentives to be a loud shithead and generate lots of Engagement for social media companies, and a series of ratchets on the political machine that makes it impossible to actually improve the lives of the populace.
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Nov 8, 2021 13:40
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Uglycat posted:Mike Flynn did not become convinced that hillary clinton is murdering children for adrenochrome. Exactly. Trust the Plan, friend. 
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Nov 8, 2021 13:53
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goddamnedtwisto posted:
So Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy is sort of based on real life events? Interesting.
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Nov 8, 2021 14:59
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Murgos posted:So Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy is sort of based on real life events? Interesting. The final British Postmaster General was actually being paid as a spy by Czechoslovakia, tried to fake his own death to avoid a fraud conviction, then was found out in Australia where he had fled because people thought he was Lord Lucan. Reality is always weirder than fiction.
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Nov 8, 2021 15:05
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Murgos posted:So Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy is sort of based on real life events? Interesting. It is, but a different set of real life events - it's based on the hunt for the mole in MI6 that turned out to be Kim Philby. MI5 had identified Philby as almost certainly compromised if not an active mole in MI6 almost 10 years before the book came out but MI6 ignored them (MI6 are the James Bonds who go out and spy on other countries, MI5 are the boring blokes in trenchcoats who track down other countries spies in the UK). It was the fallout from Philby's defection that put the entire UK and US intelligence communities into super-paranoid mode, assuming the KGB had completely compromised them and every time a lightbulb blew at Curzon Street it was because the Soviets had done it (see also: Havana Syndrome). If you can track down a copy, Peter Wright's Spy Catcher is a fantastic read as long as you recognise that he's an *extremely* unreliable narrator and filter accordingly. It genuinely reminds me of a good Mafia novel (weird, huh?) in the way the opening is loads of fun of him running round planting bugs and breaking codes, then there's a big event in the middle, then it's all a dark and horrible descent to the end.
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Nov 8, 2021 16:17
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this reminds me of the moles the FBI, CIA and other intelligence agencies have had that got away with it for decades. Also that the show The Americans was based on true events/people. American intelligence. Hoo boy. We have an actual technological panopticon that's only getting more complete and inescapable by the day and still incredibly incompetent.
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Nov 8, 2021 19:41
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Murgos posted:So Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy is sort of based on real life events? Interesting. apparently le Carre's job for british intelligence in Russia was also directly ruined by Philby exposing him as an agent. goddamnedtwisto posted:It is, but a different set of real life events - it's based on the hunt for the mole in MI6 that turned out to be Kim Philby. MI5 had identified Philby as almost certainly compromised if not an active mole in MI6 almost 10 years before the book came out but MI6 ignored them (MI6 are the James Bonds who go out and spy on other countries, MI5 are the boring blokes in trenchcoats who track down other countries spies in the UK). It was the fallout from Philby's defection that put the entire UK and US intelligence communities into super-paranoid mode, assuming the KGB had completely compromised them and every time a lightbulb blew at Curzon Street it was because the Soviets had done it (see also: Havana Syndrome). this sounds terrific, can't wait to read
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Nov 8, 2021 22:12
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Cranappleberry posted:this reminds me of the moles the FBI, CIA and other intelligence agencies have had that got away with it for decades. Also that the show The Americans was based on true events/people. The FBI watched Aldrich Ames regularly walking into the Soviet Embassy and were aware that (among other things) his monthly phone bill *alone* was more than his CIA salary, and apparently didn't think to mention this to the CIA for more than 8 years in which time at least 10 CIA agents were caught and executed. Mind you it's not a uniquely Anglophone problem - Oleg Gordievsky, KGB station chief in London and the highest-placed (known) agent MI6 ever ran in the Soviet Union, got away with it for years because the KGB were so confident in their own abilities to detect agents that they literally never looked into him. That is until the CIA - annoyed that MI6 wouldn't share their toys - did their own mole hunt *of the KGB* to try and identify where MI6 were getting their info from, correctly identifying Gordievsky as MI6's man, information that ended up passing the desk of one Aldrich Ames. Amazingly though the KGB were so distrustful of Ames at the time (they assumed he was being run as a triple agent because he was providing *so much* info) and also so reluctant to admit they were wrong that they didn't give Gordievsky the Joe Pesci treatment, they just stuck him in a desk job in Moscow, from where he was able to contact MI6 again and activate a prearranged plan to get him out in the boot of a car over the Finnish border. All this stuff, by the way, is why spy fiction doesn't really do anything for me, because the real stories are both much more interesting and intricate but also way, way funnier (in a bleakly comic way). I've already mentioned Spy Catcher as a great illustration of the world, but Gordievsky (and Kim Philby) have excellent books about them by Ben McIntyre, who seems to share my love for the sheer insanity of that world (and the even weirder - but more practical - world of WW2 spying for that matter).
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Nov 9, 2021 00:24
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For WW2 espionage you can't go past the bit where the Abwehr had a network of spies in the UK - every single one of which was a double agent. The brits captured the Abwehr records after the war to see if there were any they missed, there weren't. The nazis were not good at spy.
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Nov 9, 2021 01:39
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The Lone Badger posted:For WW2 espionage you can't go past the bit where the Abwehr had a network of spies in the UK - every single one of which was a double agent. The brits captured the Abwehr records after the war to see if there were any they missed, there weren't. There were a lot of complicated reasons for this but the root of the problem was that they felt espionage was for NEEEERRRDS who didn't want to fight and die in a ditch like real men
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Nov 9, 2021 01:47
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No anticipation for Elvis at the Dallas celebrity resurrection event. Despite Elvis being [i]the[/] nostalgic Boomer celebrity conspiracy figure all through the 90s, I haven't seen him pop up anywhere in relation to this conspiracy theory expanded universe that traffics heavily in Boomer nostalgia and obsession with celebrities.
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Nov 9, 2021 03:23
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goddamnedtwisto posted:All this stuff, by the way, is why spy fiction doesn't really do anything for me, because the real stories are both much more interesting and intricate but also way, way funnier (in a bleakly comic way). I've already mentioned Spy Catcher as a great illustration of the world, but Gordievsky (and Kim Philby) have excellent books about them by Ben McIntyre, who seems to share my love for the sheer insanity of that world (and the even weirder - but more practical - world of WW2 spying for that matter). Seriously, thanks for this. I do enjoy spy fiction but believe it or not, I’ve never read any books about real spy history. I was intrigued by your posts here, went to McIntyre’s amazon page, and like immediately found four books I want right now. They all sound awesome judging by the excerpts and user reviews.
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Nov 9, 2021 03:41
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The Lone Badger posted:For WW2 espionage you can't go past the bit where the Abwehr had a network of spies in the UK - every single one of which was a double agent. The brits captured the Abwehr records after the war to see if there were any they missed, there weren't. Don't forget a massive chunk of their "spy network" existed entirely in the mind of one guy who just sent them stuff he read in the papers or made up, along with an invoice to pay his massive stable of informants. Now *that's* how you sockpuppet, people. Also one of their double agents was a bank robber who volunteered to spy for them to get out of prison then promptly turned himself in once he got back to Britain, and was so convincing that the Germans gave him the Iron Cross. MrMojok posted:Seriously, thanks for this. I do enjoy spy fiction but believe it or not, I’ve never read any books about real spy history. I was intrigued by your posts here, went to McIntyre’s amazon page, and like immediately found four books I want right now. They all sound awesome judging by the excerpts and user reviews. No problem, basically all of his stuff is fantastic but I'd suggest the one about Philby, Operation Mincemeat, and Agent ZigZag as the most interesting stories. (Also apologies to everyone else for what's turned into a derail of a derail of a derail, but at the same time I think having some knowledge of how intelligence agencies actually work - and they really haven't changed *that* much in the last 70 years - is pretty useful whenever you're into conspiracyland)
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Nov 9, 2021 10:52
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^^^ Alright, that wiki article on Juan Garcia is loving hilarious.goddamnedtwisto posted:All this stuff, by the way, is why spy fiction doesn't really do anything for me, because the real stories are both much more interesting and intricate but also way, way funnier (in a bleakly comic way). I've already mentioned Spy Catcher as a great illustration of the world, but Gordievsky (and Kim Philby) have excellent books about them by Ben McIntyre, who seems to share my love for the sheer insanity of that world (and the even weirder - but more practical - world of WW2 spying for that matter). Zero_Grade fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Nov 9, 2021 |
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Nov 9, 2021 13:49
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DarklyDreaming posted:There were a lot of complicated reasons for this but the root of the problem was that they felt espionage was for NEEEERRRDS who didn't want to fight and die in a ditch like real men
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Nov 9, 2021 14:29
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Don't forget a massive chunk of their "spy network" existed entirely in the mind of one guy who just sent them stuff he read in the papers or made up, along with an invoice to pay his massive stable of informants. Now *that's* how you sockpuppet, people. How the gently caress isn't there a comedy about these guys? I don't care if they never met in real life, they both sound fascinating enough to carry out a dark comedy for several seasons.
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Nov 9, 2021 15:53
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DarkCrawler posted:How the gently caress isn't there a comedy about these guys? I don't care if they never met in real life, they both sound fascinating enough to carry out a dark comedy for several seasons. Make it int he tone of pain and gain, and I'm in.
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Nov 9, 2021 16:07
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DarkCrawler posted:How the gently caress isn't there a comedy about these guys? I don't care if they never met in real life, they both sound fascinating enough to carry out a dark comedy for several seasons. Genuine answer - because by the time their stories were declassified in the 90s the window where we could make fun of the war had closed. There were lots of great comedies written about WW2 by people who had fought in it but as that generation of writers and performers aged out (and the political winds swung sharply right) the very idea of even gently mocking anything that happened between 1939 and 1945 - or indeed speaking any opinion that wasn't BRAVE BRITAIN BATTLING THE BOCHE - was completely beyond the pale. Blackadder IV was the last show that suggested the British at war weren't the most competent, resolved, good-looking and amazingly well-ruled people in the history of Earth and it only got away with it because Blackadder was already a national treasure and WW1 hadn't been anything like as propagandised as WW2. TBH Blackadder working in the XX Committee and having to corral all the double agents would make a pretty solid 5th season, but like I say that boat has sailed. However if anyone has Chris Morris' address, I'll happily send him a load of books with a covering letter saying just "Vier Löwen?". I reckon he might have the chops - both comedic and political - to pull it off.
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Nov 9, 2021 16:39
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Thanks to you guys I started reading the Wikipedia on some of these dudes and  quote:When the Soviet Union collapsed in December 1991, Hanssen, possibly worried that he could be exposed during the ensuing political upheaval, broke off communications with his handlers for a time. The following year, after the Russian Federation took over the defunct USSR's spy agencies, Hanssen made a risky approach to the GRU, with whom he had not been in contact in ten months. He went in person to the Russian embassy and physically approached a GRU officer in the parking garage. Hanssen, carrying a package of documents, identified himself by his Soviet code name, "Ramon Garcia," and described himself as a "disaffected FBI agent" who was offering his services as a spy. The Russian officer, who evidently did not recognize the code name, drove off. The Russians then filed an official protest with the State Department, believing Hanssen to be a triple agent. Despite having shown his face, disclosed his code name, and revealed his FBI affiliation, Hanssen escaped arrest when the Bureau's investigation into the incident did not advance. The Russians were so pissed that someone came into their embassy parking garage unannounced like "HELLO I AM A TRAITOR SPY WHO CAN I TALK TO ABOUT DOING MORE TREASON FOR MONEY PLEASE" that they assumed it was a honeypot and complained to the US state department that someone from the FBI was trying to set them up, and the US didn't even look into who identified himself to the GRU as an FBI agent looking to sell secrets to Russia
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Nov 9, 2021 17:50
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https://twitter.com/stevanzetti/status/1458162566132289547?s=20 It's almost impressive how well the Qult is remaining united in the face of a Messianic oopsie. We're so going to get a Jehovah's Witnesses-like offshoot from all this.
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Nov 9, 2021 23:51
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MadJackal posted:It's almost impressive how well the Qult is remaining united in the face of a Messianic oopsie. Didn't we get five religions out of the Millerites? I know the 7th day Adventists were another offshoot after the apocalypse went bust
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Nov 10, 2021 00:26
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