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My Raspberry Pi might even be slower than that, and I’m planning on making it into a USB host-to-MIDI hub. Hmmm…
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Nov 9, 2021 19:14
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toadee posted:uh, no, sorry but, no, not even close. 20-30ms would be horrible audible latency. Thru boxes in general introduce latency in the realm of microseconds, not milliseconds. So like 20-30 thousandths of a millisecond. The Kenton Midi thru boxes introduce LESS than a microsecond of latency. They are, to a human being, transparent in terms of latency. whoops, off by several orders of magnitude. that felt off as I was hitting post (thinking about DAW buffers) https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13428-018-1042-7 Interesting report putting numbers on some of this stuff. seems like sub 1 milliseconds per stage is.... optimistic in a lot of places. I bet a lot of this in chains comes down to how the midi forwarding was implemented. i.e. if the module has 10 milliseconds of variable latency depending on the patch, are they sending stuff as soon as possible? or waiting til the sound is made? Left field but this came up as I was googling - what are your thoughts on multiple optocouplers degrading the pulse width of the signal over a couple stages? Completely new to me but... something to think about.
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Nov 9, 2021 19:57
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JamesKPolk posted:whoops, off by several orders of magnitude. that felt off as I was hitting post (thinking about DAW buffers) Well that study is all on MIDI interfaces and sound modules, which are reading the MIDI data and doing something with it, or talking to an Operating System and operating on it. MIDI Thru boxes are simply duplicating electrically what is on an input to any number of outputs. So, generally the latency therein is basically "how long does it take electricity to flow through this path", which is much, much shorter than anything that is actually looking at the data therein.
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Nov 9, 2021 20:32
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Rolo posted:The good news is that the OP-1 is complemented very well by the PO-33, the bad news is that there isn’t much carryover in regards to workflow. You’re gonna be learning an entirely different thing. Yeah, that's no problem, more things to play with. BTW, I see the back says 1.5v batteries, I have envelops which are 1.2v. Am I going to run into problems? I'd really rather not use disposable batteries.
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Nov 9, 2021 22:22
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toadee posted:Well that study is all on MIDI interfaces and sound modules, which are reading the MIDI data and doing something with it, or talking to an Operating System and operating on it. MIDI Thru boxes are simply duplicating electrically what is on an input to any number of outputs. So, generally the latency therein is basically "how long does it take electricity to flow through this path", which is much, much shorter than anything that is actually looking at the data therein. Word, gotcha in theory. So then whats up with the "active circuitry to clean up messages" that the Kenton one, the one you posted, and the extremely passive (powered only via 5 pin) MIDI solutions one talk about? I'm legit stumped here, I'm looking at the pcb from your link and I'm seeing a bunch of passive stuff, a Schmitt trigger (doing the multing definitely introducing less delay than the duration of a message) and what I assume is a blacked out optocoupler? Or are they running a tiny arduino or PIC or something?
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Nov 10, 2021 03:13
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I don’t quite get why MIDI splitters/multipliers need to be active, either. It should just be a matter of duplicating electrical signals, so unless those signals are so weak that they need some sort of amplification when they get split, it should work fine without having to plug a box in. I’m actually running into this issue right now. I have a Raspberry Pi that I’m turning into a USB-host-to-MIDI-out box, and I either need to buy three USB-in-to-MIDI-out cables (which apparently don’t exist on their own), or one and also a MIDI splitter box (which are like $50-60). So what the gently caress. I could also investigate connecting a bunch of MIDI out jacks to the RPi…but that sounds like effort.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:33
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JamesKPolk posted:Word, gotcha in theory. They don't? The Meeblip says it just copies messages at input to all outputs. They all work the same way I believe, just opto isolated mults For the Kenton quote:Receives MIDI data from a single MIDI OUT (e.g. sequencer or master keyboard) and produces identical copies at the 25 MIDI THRU sockets. These can then be connected to the MIDI INs of sound modules or other devices which require MIDI signals sent to them. Not sure where you got the stuff about active circuitry to clean up messages.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:33
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toadee posted:
From the meeblip page: quote:[*] Opto-isolated MIDI IN to eliminate ground loops From the manual for Kenton's thru-25 (and thru-5) quote:The THRU-25 has an opto-coupled MIDI Input and separate drive circuits for each Hence my confusion
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Nov 10, 2021 03:43
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Great discussion on MIDI — that MRCC box looks super cool though way overkill for me right now. I’m struggling to think of a reason I’d need to dynamically reassign input/output right now but who knows what the future holds. If anything I’d love that kind of pushbutton matrix routing for audio. I’d love to have a virtual patch bay where I can just instantly route output of sampler to a rack reverb or to automatically switch my turntable output from my MPC1K to my rack sampler with the push of a button. I kind of duplicated that with my Yamaha mixer and its bus routing and FX send channels with moderate success but it’s super limited.
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Nov 10, 2021 03:44
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Rolo posted:I don't have a one-beats-all video but here's what I did. I watched a handful of similar how-to videos to get a mix. Some people would cover a basic question I had and some others. Once you can lay down sounds on a pattern and manage samples, Google becomes your friend. I found myself just typing in a lot of specific questions to fill in the cracks: Great advice for virtually anything nowadays. Yeah, and watch Jakob Haq's videos about the POs, his videos are really good, very instructive and much more. He made some of the stock patterns on the 32.
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Nov 10, 2021 05:12
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petit choux posted:Great advice for virtually anything nowadays. Yeah, and watch Jakob Haq's videos about the POs, his videos are really good, very instructive and much more. He made some of the stock patterns on the 32. Agreed. I'll throw in the channel called "free beat" as well. He makes a lot of po vids, which I've found helpful https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBg47CPiNcKwtGd7QAYeGFV-wVjy5EcN0
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Nov 10, 2021 05:23
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toadee posted:uh, no, sorry but, no, not even close. 20-30ms would be horrible audible latency. Thru boxes in general introduce latency in the realm of microseconds, not milliseconds. So like 20-30 thousandths of a millisecond. The Kenton Midi thru boxes introduce LESS than a microsecond of latency. They are, to a human being, transparent in terms of latency. Makes me feel much better about getting the Kenton
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Nov 10, 2021 05:27
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Matt Zerella posted:Yeah, that's no problem, more things to play with. This is a question I need a little clarity on myself. I think some electronics have such precise demands they can't work with 1.2, but I don't know if that's a common problem.
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Nov 10, 2021 05:34
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I did the flea market today, played my PO 33 as people browsed my lovely keyboards. I actually got a pretty strong response from a couple people or more as they passed by. Ran it through a DD-6 that a gentle goon was kind enough to sell me. 
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Nov 10, 2021 05:46
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We should 100% have a PO33 share sesh once everyone is up to speed on using it. I love hearing what other people can make on my own gear. It’s inspiring.
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Nov 10, 2021 06:40
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PO33 is next on my to buy list. I even bought a case for it already.
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Nov 10, 2021 07:57
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Pollyanna posted:I don’t quite get why MIDI splitters/multipliers need to be active, either. It should just be a matter of duplicating electrical signals, so unless those signals are so weak that they need some sort of amplification when they get split, it should work fine without having to plug a box in. Pollyanna posted:Edit: what the gently caress is the behringer td-3 and why are there like a million of them for 100 bucks on reverb Disclaimer: I am very into acid techno so I have a huge bias for tb-303 clones I would recommend getting a td-3 to connect to your pi. It has usb midi in and regular midi out/thru. It also produces divine techno sounds. I don't own a td-3 but I have an rd-6 which is very similar and I use it to control my non-usb 303 clone.
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Nov 10, 2021 08:15
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Reaaaaaally now 👀 as long as it gets recognized as a MIDI device, that’d solve my interface problem. I’d still have to figure out a way to connect multiple devices to the same MIDI signal, though. Supposedly daisy chaining is a thing? The Volcas unfortunately generally don’t have MIDI thru.CatBlack posted:Disclaimer: I am very into acid techno You mean like this? https://youtu.be/RIca6YfvTaY God, that soundtrack rules.
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Nov 10, 2021 14:36
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petit choux posted:Makes me feel much better about getting the Kenton I mean, you should, because Kenton are good people and the boxes are well made, but to a human being there is no difference between 30 microseconds and 1 microsecond, you simply can't tell the difference.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:10
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Pollyanna posted:Reaaaaaally now 👀 as long as it gets recognized as a MIDI device, that’d solve my interface problem. I’d still have to figure out a way to connect multiple devices to the same MIDI signal, though. Supposedly daisy chaining is a thing? The Volcas unfortunately generally don’t have MIDI thru. oh my god
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Nov 10, 2021 15:22
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This is how I think of latency times between seconds, milliseconds, and microsecondscode:dexefiend fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 15:30
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The MIDI thru boxes have active circuits to isolate the inputs and outputs from each other. That 'opto isolated' bit means that instead of directly wiring the input to the output they use the input to light up an led which shines on a light dependent resistor, ie the input isn't connected to the output at all. You need power to light the led and likely an amplifier of some sort on the resistor side. If you knew you only had well behaved gear you could just directly solder some wires between input and output jacks and have a passive device if you wanted, but at some point you'll not have enough current to drive all the outputs if you fan out too much. The fancier MIDI boxes have micro controllers that actually read the midi messages themselves and then do stuff with them.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:15
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I guess I've been wishing I had a USB MIDI host like the Kenton but with two USB connectors or more instead, so I can run two MIDI over USB devices without my computer. Some of these cheap keyboards I have could really benefit from input from a device like this MPK.
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Nov 10, 2021 16:41
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dexefiend posted:This is how I think of latency times between seconds, milliseconds, and microseconds This, but also: latency as a result of my playing the keys manually: +/- 1/32 to 1/16 beat
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Nov 10, 2021 16:47
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Introducing over usb specifically (PCI seems fine according to the paper I posted) to the midi chain does introduce single digit MS latency, because of how the data is polled from the bus. The Kenton boxes have it down to 2ms according to their site, but "standard" is 8ms or so. Hence the argument for a hub rather than a chain.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:54
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One thing that irks me about the model 12 is that it can send transport out but won’t listen to transport in messages. I still use it as master clock tho
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Nov 10, 2021 18:02
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The more I look at prices for interfaces and splitter/multipliers, the more my RPi starts looking ripe for tinkering.
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Nov 10, 2021 18:07
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petit choux posted:I guess I've been wishing I had a USB MIDI host like the Kenton but with two USB connectors or more instead, so I can run two MIDI over USB devices without my computer. Some of these cheap keyboards I have could really benefit from input from a device like this MPK. Assuming your midi box is acting as the host, connecting it to a plain old usb hub ought to work for that scenario. (right? now I'm doubting myself) Also there's this: https://www.iconnectivity.com/mioxm
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Nov 10, 2021 18:47
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Pollyanna posted:You mean like this?  Pollyanna posted:Reaaaaaally now 👀 as long as it gets recognized as a MIDI device, that’d solve my interface problem. I’d still have to figure out a way to connect multiple devices to the same MIDI signal, though. Supposedly daisy chaining is a thing? The Volcas unfortunately generally don’t have MIDI thru. Midi has channels so you'd set the devices to different channels (the td-3 definitely lets you do this) and configure your software to send notes to them. I had a dedicated midi usb interface that I stopped using because I have so many synths with midi thru now. e: volca lets you set midi channel too. I think its a pretty standard feature. CatBlack fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 22:30
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Pollyanna posted:Reaaaaaally now 👀 as long as it gets recognized as a MIDI device, that’d solve my interface problem. I’d still have to figure out a way to connect multiple devices to the same MIDI signal, though. Supposedly daisy chaining is a thing? The Volcas unfortunately generally don’t have MIDI thru. Yes, this is very nice.
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Nov 10, 2021 22:41
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Bomberman Hero’s a decent-to-good game, but the soundtrack is utterly dope. I rented it like every Friday when I was 8.CatBlack posted:
I get channels, yeah, but I’m referring to when synths and modules don’t have MIDI thru cause their makers are cheap, KORG. 
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Nov 10, 2021 22:59
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Anyone know of a good book/resource/whatever for signal processing? Obviously a quick google reveals a billion results so I guess I'm asking for a goon suggestion to narrow the selection down. The more it presents examples that I can fiddle around with the better.. long winded theory or terminology dumps is gonna wear me out fast. In short I recently got the Audulus 4 beta, which is an iOS modular synth. It can run as an auv3 plugin now and I've been using it as an FX processor to do terrible things to the outputs of my favorite softsynths. I've had some fun googling for formulas and plugging them in but I think it's time to actually start teaching myself more than gain adjustments or mangling the pitch.
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Nov 11, 2021 22:58
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it's reactor specific, but the dsp level manual for reactor is o.k. and is probably free
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Nov 11, 2021 23:41
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xzzy posted:Anyone know of a good book/resource/whatever for signal processing?
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Nov 12, 2021 00:46
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My NTS-1 came in the mail today and uhhh yeah I can see why people get lost in jamming. That was fun as hell, though I’m still wrapping my head around both it and the Volca Drum. Once my coffee table is all set, I just need that TD-3 and poo poo’s goin down my friends 
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Nov 12, 2021 01:54
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Laserjet 4P posted:https://valhalladsp.com/2021/09/28/getting-started-with-reverb-design-part-4-books/ Thanks! I just bought a book on how to program audio effect plugins in c++!!
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Nov 12, 2021 03:07
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Pollyanna posted:Once my coffee table is all set, I just need that TD-3 and poo poo’s goin down my friends which color are you getting? Pollyanna posted:Bomberman Hero’s a decent-to-good game, but the soundtrack is utterly dope. I rented it like every Friday when I was 8. Hbomberguy uses music from Bomberman Hero in a lot of his videos
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Nov 12, 2021 03:09
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Goddamn I was struggling with the PO today during lunch but it's slowly starting to make sense. It's not complicated but paying attention to the write mode and not erasing stuff was pretty harrowing there. I sliced my first drums today but then I accidentally overwrote them. Lesson learned.
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Nov 12, 2021 03:31
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Ok Comboomer posted:which color are you getting? Whatever’s cheapest on Reverb  IMO, keeping each piece of gear under $90~100 is a nice rule of thumb. Used gear is perfectly good, gear from previous decades is perfectly good, simple gear is perfectly good. No need for massive drum machines or sequencers or anything. You can put together a nice short, simple, and tightly-looped track focused on rhythm and harmony with just four modules max and their onboard keys/pads. Sure, you'll be reaching over them and twiddling knobs and high execution is important, but it's totally doable. Just, keep it simple. quote:Hbomberguy uses music from Bomberman Hero in a lot of his videos Good poo poo m’duuuuuuude Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 16:51
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Pretty pleased, got this MIDI Theremin up and running with my Boss MD-500, which has MIDI in, and they're playing well together, I think. I haven't done anything I like with them but I think I just need to find my sweet spots (hopefully). Just running any old thing through them RN, mostly a PO 33. ED: not a big deal really at first glance, but I've got the sensors mapped to rate and depth settings for a low pass filter, passing a PO's rhythm through that, getting some pleasing noises now and then.
petit choux fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 17:40
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