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Yeah I wouldn't try that on most bikes actually. Not that many bikes have kickstands beefy enough to survive that.
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Nov 9, 2021 04:26
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Thankfully, that’s not where my hip problem lies. I mostly just have to worry if I wore the wrong jeans.
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Nov 9, 2021 07:33
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:Yeah I wouldn't try that on most bikes actually. Not that many bikes have kickstands beefy enough to survive that. Well just ride dirt/dual sports only, bing bong so simple.
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Nov 9, 2021 14:54
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I too think of "breaking performance barriers" when I think of KLRs
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Nov 10, 2021 02:20
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350 miles per tank would be nice though
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Nov 10, 2021 02:23
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Man I just had major flashbacks to those old Kawasaki let the good times roll ads
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Nov 10, 2021 03:33
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MomJeans420 posted:350 miles per tank would be nice though I ride like a total prick and I get about 240 😢
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Nov 10, 2021 07:48
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I get 140-145 at most before I get really nervous on the highway If I am pure mountain riding I don’t push much beyond 125 or so 
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Nov 10, 2021 07:52
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:I too think of "breaking performance barriers" when I think of KLRs One thing this ad got me thinking about is how much heavy lifting marketing does in our perception of bikes. Anyone in the late 80's looking at the bikes in that segment (xr600, ttr600, dr600, klr) would conclude that they're all extremely similar, with maybe the KLR standing out for it's water cooling or the XR for it's premium suspension. They all had very similar styling, similar physical characteristics, similar paper specs and pricing. But looking at those bikes today from thirty years in the future, it's clear that they're at wildly different levels; you'd have to be insane to try to take a KLR up against an XR in basically any situation. We know now that the relative differences between the complete package are actually quite big; the specs and styling don't tell anywhere near the full story, and I don't think anyone but the truly deranged would argue the broad strokes of my argument. Fast forward to tyool 2021 and we're looking at the cb650, mt07, sv650 and ninja 650. Again all bikes with similar styling, similar specs, with I guess the Honda standing out for it's i4 engine. I know first hand that these bikes are wildly different and that, as a complete package, the mt07 is easily the best, the SV a narrow second, and the other two much further back. But it's almost impossible to convince people of this reality today, in the here and now, with all the rave reviews in your face, the fresh buyers emotionally invested and contributing to the corporate cause, the marketing storm in full fury, and it's difficult to see the magazine articles for the twee nonsense they basically all are. Same as it ever was. If you're looking at buying bikes and getting sucked into specs, try paying attention to what they AREN'T shouting about, the stuff that makes their bike look like poo poo compared to the competition. For example Kawasaki always go on about their big power but never really brag about brakes or suspension unless it's just to exhibit parity with the other bikes, because their bikes are almost always a step behind on the cornering front. Another example is Ducati, who only started mentioning service intervals in marketing copy recently, when they achieved parity with Japanese bikes.
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Nov 10, 2021 08:26
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Slavvy posted:Fast forward to tyool 2021 and we're looking at the cb650, mt07, sv650 and ninja 650. Again all bikes with similar styling, similar specs, with I guess the Honda standing out for it's i4 engine. I know first hand that these bikes are wildly different and that, as a complete package, the mt07 is easily the best, the SV a narrow second, and the other two much further back. But it's almost impossible to convince people of this reality today, in the here and now, with all the rave reviews in your face, the fresh buyers emotionally invested and contributing to the corporate cause, the marketing storm in full fury, and it's difficult to see the magazine articles for the twee nonsense they basically all are. Same as it ever was. I'm in this market at the moment (kinda, need a new job or house first really) and the sheer amount of reviews and information that exists now is making it really hard to separate the options. I'd add the Trident to your list, and for me the CFMoto 700cl-x heritage just to make it even harder to choose. Being able to ride them all back to back, or even throw a leg over them, is almost impossible, and then you start adding nearly new bikes from the class up like Street Triples etc and it gets even worse.
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Nov 10, 2021 12:30
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The way the magazines treat similar class bikes is so dumb. I know I read at least a couple “Big Thumper Shootout” articles about the XR650, KLR, and DR650 when I was getting interested in the DR. The conclusion of the article was always the same: each of these bikes will do exactly what you the reader need. They are the same, except maybe the KLR has a bigger tank and liquid cooling, the XR is faster with more clearance, and the DR is the best bang for the buck or some bullshit. They’d point out the known weaknesses of each one as if they were equal (the KLR is heavy af, but on the other hand the DR has spongy suspension, so it’s a wash). The internet and forums have really killed that part of the moto journalism industry and I’m here for it.
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Nov 10, 2021 15:10
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I understand why they don't, but I really wish it was easier to test ride motorcycles you are interested in. As it is, I just watch endless POV ride videos so I can get the general layout and vibe of vroom vroom noises and see if it speaks to me. And then don't buy it because the Hawk GT fills my needs exactly.
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Nov 10, 2021 17:25
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:The way the magazines treat similar class bikes is so dumb. I know I read at least a couple “Big Thumper Shootout” articles about the XR650, KLR, and DR650 when I was getting interested in the DR. The conclusion of the article was always the same: each of these bikes will do exactly what you the reader need. They are the same, except maybe the KLR has a bigger tank and liquid cooling, the XR is faster with more clearance, and the DR is the best bang for the buck or some bullshit. They’d point out the known weaknesses of each one as if they were equal (the KLR is heavy af, but on the other hand the DR has spongy suspension, so it’s a wash). The internet and forums have really killed that part of the moto journalism industry and I’m here for it. Right, exactly. Klr = big and heavy = minus five points Xr = harsh and shouty = minus five points Qed they are equal  When in reality, looking at the holistic combination of parts, the xr's harshness is barely relevant and part of it's character while the klr's weight is an enormous penalizing cherry on top of the poo poo sundae. I don't know if replacing this halfwit science with random people shouting at each other to alleviate their buyer's remorse is any better though. I also detest the HEY GUYS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF HUFFED FARTS AND TODAY WE'RE LOOKING AT yt format, which is an equal waste of oxygen, so idk. Old man yells at cloud.
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Nov 10, 2021 20:37
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One of the most valuable things about ADVRider is that it’s populated with retiree boomers with cash to spend so every bike has been ridden. It takes a lot of crap wading to get real substance, but there is more collective critical reviews of bikes there than anywhere else. Also a TON of Stockholm syndrome and that attitude I can never remember the name of where “thing I own is best thing because I own it.”
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Nov 10, 2021 20:41
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Sunk-cost fallacy?
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Nov 10, 2021 21:17
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That's not the one I'm thinking of precisely, but you're absolutely right about that forum being rife with sunken cost. edit: The mere ownership effect! edit: The mere ownership effect is moot with regard to the DR650 though 
HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Nov 10, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 21:21
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Slavvy posted:I know first hand that these bikes are wildly different and that, as a complete package, the mt07 is easily the best, the SV a narrow second, and the other two much further back. Out of interest why do you rate the CB so far behind the MT and SV? I'm currently leaning towards the SV as they are just so cheap with a few miles on the clock, but my first bike was a VFR400 and even though I treated it like crap it never let me down so the CB does appeal.
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Nov 10, 2021 21:39
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Lungboy posted:Out of interest why do you rate the CB so far behind the MT and SV? I'm currently leaning towards the SV as they are just so cheap with a few miles on the clock, but my first bike was a VFR400 and even though I treated it like crap it never let me down so the CB does appeal. In sum: all the weight and bulk penalty of a four, none of the benefits. Objectively: for a midsize i4 it isn't smooth, it isn't powerful, it's clumsy at low speeds and the weight is poorly distributed for spirited riding. The suspension is Not Good even by the standards of the class, which are very low, and the geometry is somewhat old fashioned. Subjectively: the build quality is firmly in the b-tier Honda zone (meaning about equal to Suzuki), the touchy feely aspects like the instruments and stuff are subpar, it is far too big and bulky for a 650, I find the 3 piston nissin calipers unpleasant to use, doing anything involving the bodywork is the usual Honda nightmare. Basically they have nothing to recommend them over the better twins, and a bunch of stuff that makes them worse. I once owned an nc30 vfr400 and I can tell you the difference between that and a cb650 is roughly the like the difference between Ryan Gosling and the guy at Kmart who kind of looks like Ryan Gosling if you're drunk. That's the Honda we love, the Honda we pine for, the Honda who built fun and interesting bikes everyone loves, the Honda we will never see again. Get an SV, they are the no brainer choice for a reason, they are close enough to the mt07 as a package that ergonomic and character differences, as well as the price, are the deciding factors for most people.
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Nov 10, 2021 21:57
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Thanks for this. It's a shame about the CB, I'll always have a soft spot for Hondas. This was my NC30:  . I loved that bike, although I couldn't ride it for more than 45-50 mins tops before my wrists felt like they were about to explode. Now I just want something comfy but with a bit of speed for fun too. Lungboy fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 10, 2021 22:17
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Is the SV650X worth getting for the adjustable suspension? I don't want the low clip ons due to my hosed wrists, so a set of high rise clip ons would be needed, just not sure if it's worth it over the stock SV.
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Nov 11, 2021 12:10
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Lungboy posted:Is the SV650X worth getting for the adjustable suspension? I don't want the low clip ons due to my hosed wrists, so a set of high rise clip ons would be needed, just not sure if it's worth it over the stock SV. I would say no. It's only preload adjustment front and rear. A decent set of riser clip ons is going to cost north of $150, so you'd be paying $550 premium for the X plus the cost of the clip ons just to gain preload adjustment on your forks. It appears to me that the main reason to go to the X is for the nicer seat, more sport oriented ergos (eh), fairing, and the bold new graphics. However I'm just looking at the features sheet here and might be missing something. You could buy a used GSXR front end or cartridge emulators, springs, and preload adjustable fork caps with the savings. e: here's a pretty good shot straight from Suzuki's site showing the ergo difference: 
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Nov 11, 2021 13:29
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Lungboy posted:This was my NC30: 
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Nov 11, 2021 13:31
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Gorson posted:I would say no. It's only preload adjustment front and rear. A decent set of riser clip ons is going to cost north of $150, so you'd be paying $550 premium for the X plus the cost of the clip ons just to gain preload adjustment on your forks. It appears to me that the main reason to go to the X is for the nicer seat, more sport oriented ergos (eh), fairing, and the bold new graphics. However I'm just looking at the features sheet here and might be missing something. You could buy a used GSXR front end or cartridge emulators, springs, and preload adjustable fork caps with the savings.
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Nov 11, 2021 16:17
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Gorson posted:I would say no. It's only preload adjustment front and rear. A decent set of riser clip ons is going to cost north of $150, so you'd be paying $550 premium for the X plus the cost of the clip ons just to gain preload adjustment on your forks. It appears to me that the main reason to go to the X is for the nicer seat, more sport oriented ergos (eh), fairing, and the bold new graphics. However I'm just looking at the features sheet here and might be missing something. You could buy a used GSXR front end or cartridge emulators, springs, and preload adjustable fork caps with the savings. I'm in the UK and the price difference between nearly new X and non-X is minimal, so the only real extra cost would be for the taller clip ons but you get the screen, seat and adjustable suspension for around the same price. I just don't know how much the taller clip ons will help to take the weight off my wrists and it is going to be impossible to test before purchase. Nitrox posted:The X appears to be twice as comfortable to ride, not sure why would anyone pick the carpal tunnel version. The X is the one on the left.
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Nov 11, 2021 16:36
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Lungboy posted:The X is the one on the left. Either he's cross-eyed or 4'11" I don't think they even make riser clip ons tall enough (helibars, maybe?) to get up to the height of the stock bars. To mimic that you'd need a bar conversion. There may or may not also be a difference in the overall length of the forks because on the non-X the top of the fork sits flush with the triple, but looking at that pic I think they're the same forks just shoved up through the triple on the X to accommodate the clip ons. This makes the front end sit lower and also changes the geometry of the bike. e: nope the clips are below the triple. Thems some low bars. Any riser clip ons would also have to be mounted below. 
Gorson fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Nov 11, 2021 |
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Nov 11, 2021 17:23
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Lungboy posted:screen, seat and adjustable suspension for around the same price. Just added preload on the front, which can be accomplished by a set of fork caps.
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Nov 11, 2021 17:29
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I have sat on but not ridden both of those bikes next to each other and yes those clip ons are pretty drat low and would not be comfortable for me.
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Nov 11, 2021 17:30
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Gorson posted:Either he's cross-eyed or 4'11" You can get Tarozzi 70mm high rise clips ons, apparently anything taller means extending brake lines etc at which point you might as well do a handlebar swap. Ok, stock SV for now as #1 option, still need to go and sit on a bunch of bikes first (plus move house and/or job).
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Nov 11, 2021 17:36
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Lungboy posted:You can get Tarozzi 70mm high rise clips ons, apparently anything taller means extending brake lines etc at which point you might as well do a handlebar swap. Ahh yeah that's a good point, the X probably uses shorter cabling as well. Going up that much would definitely require extending or replacing, and that's when the hole really starts to dig itself.
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Nov 11, 2021 17:40
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I don't know if this affects other bikes but at least on my D675 the heli bars felt much better for a tall guy on the bike, but they didn't allow enough room for my hand between the bar and the gas tank at full lock. Which isn't a problem for riding but turned into a big problem when a Tahoe merged into me. Probably a rare occurrence but I wouldn't run them again on a bike that didn't allow enough room for my hand. RE: demo days - there's a Kawasaki demo day event this Sunday but I won't be able to make it until late in the afternoon. There's nothing there I'm dying to ride but if it worked out I'd like to try the Nina 400 and KLX300SM. Are these things usually total clusters with huge lines and a lot of sitting around and waiting, or have people generally had good experiences?
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Nov 11, 2021 19:02
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Lmao wait are you serious? Preload front and rear was standard on the SV, and now they've made it a loving model option? Just incredible if so, it would mean they've effectively downgraded the base bike.
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Nov 11, 2021 19:38
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Slavvy posted:Lmao wait are you serious? Preload front and rear was standard on the SV, and now they've made it a loving model option? Just incredible if so, it would mean they've effectively downgraded the base bike. Looks like they removed front preload when they binned the Gladius and brought back the SV in 2017, then added it to the X in 2018. They still have rear preload.
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Nov 11, 2021 19:59
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Never change Suzuki  To be fair and honest: the front preload on the SV is effectively completely worthless and should not enter into your calculation at all. The SV has extremely magical geometry and everything else and is the classic more-than-the-sum-of-parts bike, but if you want to do track days or something you basically have to upgrade the suspension and whether it has front preload or not is immaterial because the deficiencies are in the spring rates and damping, stuff you can't really affect or compensate for with a fork preload cap.
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Nov 11, 2021 20:21
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No interest in track days, I was just wondering with the price being effectively the same if X plus high clip ons was a good idea but it seems like that's not a good idea. Cheers all.
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Nov 11, 2021 20:43
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Anyone tried these yet? It's a drop in cartridge emulator, no fork modification needed. Pull the spring, drop the emulator in, done. https://www.motocd.com/product/ddc-drop-in-damper-cartridge/ quote:The DDC fork upgrade valves are available for many bikes including: Suzuki DR650, Kawasaki KLR 650, SV650, XT250, Triumph Bonneville, Scrambler, Thruxton and T100. Many other applications available.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:09
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Cogent dynamics are legit, so from that angle I’m sure they’re pretty good
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Nov 12, 2021 00:17
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I don't see how that can work because to get emulators to work at all you need to drill out the damping rod holes until they're so big they have virtually no effect. I don't see how you can get around that. In every other way they are identical to racetech gold emulators, those also just 'drop in' and the only actual modification you do is drilling the damper rod holes.
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Nov 12, 2021 03:11
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:One of the most valuable things about ADVRider
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Nov 12, 2021 03:47
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There was a solid like, 15 year period where ADVRiders favorite bike was the KLR. They are not to be trusted
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Nov 12, 2021 03:58
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Sometimes you need a good pair of hip waders to get to the good stuff.
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Nov 12, 2021 04:28
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