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Biden's approval ratings still have room to drop: specifically, on February 1, 2022 when student loan payments are set to resume. If nothing else Biden seems to be a stubborn man, so if he's set on resuming these payments I don't think he's going to change his mind no matter the public backlash.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:22
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CapMoron posted:I also think there is a large dash of his rhetoric about how Covid was defeated in July to blame. Right around August when it was realized that it in fact is still here, and people still in fact need masks, is when that approval took a dive. If you're pointing to August, I don't think you can ignore Afghanistan. I think a lot of people were hoping that just having Democrats in the White House would finally be the magic step that would make Covid go away and it obviously was not. I don't know how much it came across as Biden bungling as much as fuel for more people to think that "well, the virus will never go away. Just do what it takes for me to have my conveniences back." I meet a lot of suburban Democrats and even they're just tired of trying and would rather just let anybody who doesn't get vaccinated fall off a cliff. And both Afghanistan and the delta surge were great rallying points for GOP enthusiasm. A lot of people got to say "the government is incompetent. Experts are incompetent. Biden is an idiot. Vaccines don't work anyway. Burn it all down" I'm not going to stop trying to volunteer and support good people, but I am getting very close to a "gently caress it, save your money and take care of yourself because the system's not going to get that much better," mentality. It sucks, but I'm not sure how else to react.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:26
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rare Magic card l00k posted:I'd be more worried about 2024 than 2022 at this point. I expect both houses to be Republican-controlled after 2022. 2024 has the potential to make the Republican edge in the Senate basically untouchable until the Democratic Party completely changes. I think, especially with Sununu declining to run against Hassan, that the Dems will hold on to the Senate but likely lose the House. Artonos posted:Approval ratings are definitely outdated. How many people here approve of how Biden is handling things? Overall if I was polled I'd probably say I didn't approve of his job so far. But, I'll still hold my nose and pull the vote lever when it's time. The warning shots were those focus groups in post-election Virginia in which participants who voted for Biden said they'd never vote for Trump but they happily voted for Youngkin. And, as always, the greatest danger to Dems is not losing voters to the GOP but losing voters to apathy. Mind_Taker posted:Biden's approval ratings still have room to drop: specifically, on February 1, 2022 when student loan payments are set to resume. Nothing says the economy's improving than putting millions of people back into penury!
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Nov 12, 2021 19:34
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selec posted:I would say anomie (or as Marxists might term it alienation) is the primary cause; tons of people simmer constantly in the same primordial grievance pits that occasionally pop out a shooter; the ideology excuses it, but the alienation is the foot on the gas pedal. We have a generation or two of (especially male) young people we are doing a terrible job of initiating into our society, and the response to having no place or use in a society can turn into destructive impulses. Hey, you can gently caress the Hell off with that "especially male" bullshit. Women and non-binary people are just as alienated by modern society as men if not more so.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:36
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rare Magic card l00k posted:I'd be more worried about 2024 than 2022 at this point. I expect both houses to be Republican-controlled after 2022. 2024 has the potential to make the Republican edge in the Senate basically untouchable until the Democratic Party completely changes. The Democrats will slowly change as more people stop caring about Trump. His impression of everybody's dead racist grandpa caused them caused them to tilt so hard into being Not That to the point where they're not satisfying anyone but donors: the actual policy measures are too moderate for the left, the messaging is far too radical for the middle. People who rarely vote follow messaging and the base follows policy, so they're doing the opposite of what they should be doing: further left policy backed with middling statesmanlike temperament. Instead they're passing corporate bailout bills while bitching that I just used the word 'statesman' because it's not inclusive.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:40
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Hey, you can gently caress the Hell off with that "especially male" bullshit. Women and non-binary people are just as alienated by modern society as men if not more so. That's not really what the post said. Toxic masculinity is a factor.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:44
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Hey, you can gently caress the Hell off with that "especially male" bullshit. Women and non-binary people are just as alienated by modern society as men if not more so. I think they weren't saying that it's only them who suffer from this, or even suffer from it the most, but rather that historically speaking, having a big mass of disaffected young men is the #1 predictor of violent social unrest and reactionary violence
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Nov 12, 2021 19:45
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Craptacular! posted:The Democrats will slowly change as more people stop caring about Trump. His impression of everybody's dead racist grandpa caused them caused them to tilt so hard into being Not That to the point where they're not satisfying anyone but donors: the actual policy measures are too moderate for the left, the messaging is far too radical for the middle. People who rarely vote follow messaging and the base follows policy, so they're doing the opposite of what they should be doing: further left policy backed with middling statesmanlike temperament. Instead they're passing corporate bailout bills while bitching that I just used the word 'statesman' because it's not inclusive. A while back when we were discussing Virginia, I pointed out that the longstanding trope of "fiscally conservative & socially liberal" could possibly be turned on its head in the near future. (Not that there's anything "fiscally sound" about dumping a huge portion of the one-shot spending bill into tax cuts for richies.)
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Nov 12, 2021 19:49
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Hey, you can gently caress the Hell off with that "especially male" bullshit. Women and non-binary people are just as alienated by modern society as men if not more so. You might want to take a breather from the forums. If you look at the whole context with the past posts, it was focused on white young men, and this was just a follow-up. It wasn't going into the greater picture of alienation in the US, which obviously does skewer towards greater alienation of women, minorities, non-binary people, etc.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:53
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Craptacular! posted:The Democrats will slowly change as more people stop caring about Trump. His impression of everybody's dead racist grandpa caused them caused them to tilt so hard into being Not That to the point where they're not satisfying anyone but donors: the actual policy measures are too moderate for the left, the messaging is far too radical for the middle. People who rarely vote follow messaging and the base follows policy, so they're doing the opposite of what they should be doing: further left policy backed with middling statesmanlike temperament. Instead they're passing corporate bailout bills while bitching that I just used the word 'statesman' because it's not inclusive. Trump, who has famously disappeared from the airwaves of CNN, MSNBC, the broadcasts of TYT and The Majority Report...     I'm sure he'll fade from public consciousness any day now. I, for one, am hopeful for the Democrats' big swing left any. day. now.
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Nov 12, 2021 19:55
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Lib and let die posted:Trump, who has famously disappeared from the airwaves of CNN, MSNBC, the broadcasts of TYT and The Majority Report... Everybody moved on from Nixon, it will take time. They're not going to get him out of their system (arguably they should not) until the January 6 investigation is wrapped up, even if it just ends up being Muller Report II.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:12
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Craptacular! posted:Everybody moved on from Nixon, it will take time. They're not going to get him out of their system (arguably they should not) until the January 6 investigation is wrapped up, even if it just ends up being Muller Report II. How much time do you think we have before inland states have to set up coastal state climate refugee
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Nov 12, 2021 20:14
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Lib and let die posted:Trump, who has famously disappeared from the airwaves of CNN, MSNBC, the broadcasts of TYT and The Majority Report... I think investigating January 6 is important and that is necessarily going to keep Trump (and people like Bannon, Meadows, etc.) in the news. Would you rather we just all forget about it? Lib and let die posted:How much time do you think we have before inland states have to set up coastal state climate refugee Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 20:15
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As long as people keep clicking on the links they will continue plastering pictures of him all over news sites, relevant or not.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:17
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"Isreal literally owned congress until The Squad got elected," as a Trump talking point is confusing me for like, a dozen reasons
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Nov 12, 2021 20:19
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Mellow Seas posted:I think investigating January 6 is important and that is necessarily going to keep Trump (and people like Bannon, Meadows, etc.) in the news. Would you rather we just all forget about it? We don't have the luxury to "give people time" to move past Trump in the face of multiple emergent global crises. I'm sorry that interferes with the metaphorical ruined orgasm of Mueller She Wrote II: Hoveround "Insurrection" Boogaloo. Instead of focusing on Trump, these outlets could be focused on any number of the Democrats' objective failure to stem the times of the pandemic or to take meaningful harm-reduction action towards climate change (because we're already past the point of harm prevention) or put money in peoples' pockets so they can continue to afford to live, but instead they're laser-focused on the looming specter of Trump. I'm imagining a scenario like in Armageddon where a worldwide broadcast goes out just as the global broadcast infrastructure fails, and it's just Rachel Maddow warning you against the incoming threat of Trump and his allies as the waters begin to rise around the homes of millions upon millions of people living in coastal states who were means-tested out of refugee qualification by a party of democrats afraid of upsetting moderate republicans that were never going to support them anyway
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Nov 12, 2021 20:25
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Sanguinia posted:"Isreal literally owned congress until The Squad got elected," as a Trump talking point is confusing me for like, a dozen reasons The fact that he singled out AOC was especially bizarre, considering the fact that AOC had just folded to Pelosi over funding the Iron Dome, changing her vote from "no" to "present."
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Nov 12, 2021 20:28
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Epic High Five posted:I'll try to dig up the article on it I read years back through the challenge that is searching for anything about Marx with vague keywords. I don't think it was a pro-slavery situation, more of the much more common "what you propose is too extreme, sir!" type and anyway, I'd bet good money the real reason he felt personally attacked was all of Marx's other suppositions and proposals re: people of means
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Nov 12, 2021 20:29
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Abner Assington posted:Oh, fair enough. Wasn't calling you out or anything—just curious since that was the first I'd heard of it. No offense taken, I probably should've hunted it down before posting it but couldn't resist taking a shot at the NYT with one of the funnier anecdotes about the man I know
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Nov 12, 2021 20:32
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Majorian posted:The fact that he singled out AOC was especially bizarre, considering the fact that AOC had just folded to Pelosi over funding the Iron Dome, changing her vote from "no" to "present." It'd be like saying circa 2009 "it's weird this conservative is going on about the 'extreme communist Barack Hussein Obama' whereas a cursory study of his views and policies will show he isn't a communist." Enver Zogha fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 20:37
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Majorian posted:The fact that he singled out AOC was especially bizarre, considering the fact that AOC had just folded to Pelosi over funding the Iron Dome, changing her vote from "no" to "present." He singled her out because she's the most famous and polarizing. I'd be mildly surprised if he could even remember Tlaib, Omar, Pressley or Bush's names off the top of his head.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:41
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Enver Zogha posted:Yeah but you're trying to look at this in a rational manner, whereas the actual reason she's singled out is because tons of conservatives fixate on her as the ultimate symbol of "haha socialists are stupid and/or support everything that is bad" or whatever. So by going "lol AOC am I right" Trump is just appealing to the base. Mellow Seas posted:He singled her out because she's the most famous and polarizing. I'd be mildly surprised if he could even remember Tlaib, Omar, Pressley or Bush's names off the top of his head. Oh I know why he did it, it's just...extra maddening for the reason I mentioned, I suppose.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:47
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AOC is a combination of conventionally attractive and ideologically noncompliant that drives Republican men mad. It would be hilarious if our country wasn't in so much trouble.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:51
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Eric Cantonese posted:AOC is a combination of conventionally attractive and ideologically noncompliant that drives Republican men mad. It would be hilarious if our country wasn't in so much trouble. It's also a shame that their attacks on her have worked so well; her overall favorability is in the toilet, with high name recognition, and it seems ridiculous in retrospect that we ever thought of her as someone who could get involved in Presidential politics, because her brand is pretty well tarnished. The attacks from the right couldn't be countered with how many in her own party were unwilling to defend her, or attacking her themselves. And since 2020 she's had some people attacking her from the left, too! She really can't win. I know there have been whispers about her retiring from politics; I absolutely wouldn't blame her, especially after she got abandoned by what was supposed to be her coalition with the BIF vote. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 21:03
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Mellow Seas posted:It's also a shame that their attacks on her have worked so well; her overall favorability is in the toilet, with high name recognition, and it seems ridiculous in retrospect that we ever thought of her as someone who could get involved in Presidential politics, because her brand is pretty well tarnished. The attacks from the right couldn't be countered with how many in her own party were unwilling to defend her, or attacking her themselves. Isn't the only favorability that matters for her currently is the one in her District? How good or bad is that compared to national favorability? Also yeah don't know why some people were convinced AOC would be president some day before she even got elected. I think she'll be fine in her political career if she chooses to continue or advance, but you're right there's a lot of damage done currently.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:05
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Mellow Seas posted:It's also a shame that their attacks on her have worked so well; her overall favorability is in the toilet, with high name recognition, and it seems ridiculous in retrospect that we ever thought of her as someone who could get involved in Presidential politics, because her brand is pretty well tarnished. The attacks from the right couldn't be countered with how many in her own party were unwilling to defend her, or attacking her themselves. Shes pretty unpopular on the (twitter)left now as well
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Nov 12, 2021 21:06
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Mellow Seas posted:It's also a shame that their attacks on her have worked so well; her overall favorability is in the toilet, with high name recognition, and it seems ridiculous in retrospect that we ever thought of her as someone who could get involved in Presidential politics, because her brand is pretty well tarnished. The attacks from the right couldn't be countered with how many in her own party were unwilling to defend her, or attacking her themselves. The US doesn’t have any healthy political parties.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:09
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Mellow Seas posted:And since 2020 she's had some people attacking her from the left, too! She really can't win. I know there have been whispers about her retiring from politics; I absolutely wouldn't blame her, especially after she got abandoned by what was supposed to be her coalition with the BIF vote. For real, right? I wouldn't blame her, either. She's still hugely influential, but my god is it a thankless job trying to make the world a better place. The petty criticism of Twitter warriors has got to be grating as hell when you're trying to do actual real world work.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:09
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Enver Zogha posted:Yeah but you're trying to look at this in a rational manner, whereas the actual reason she's singled out is because tons of conservatives fixate on her as the ultimate symbol of "haha socialists are stupid and/or support everything that is bad" or whatever. So by going "lol AOC am I right" Trump is just appealing to the base. It's because they want to gently caress her and unlike MTG, she does not pander to them, this is confusing because in their worldview the sole reason a woman chooses to be attractive is for the benefit of men like them.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:09
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Angry_Ed posted:Isn't the only favorability that matters for her currently is the one in her District? How good or bad is that compared to national favorability? AmiYumi posted:A healthy political party could have easily cultivated her as a symbol of the next generation, outreach to the younger generations to get them to vote, and after a few years a once-in-a-lifetime landslide presidential victory. And landslide presidential victories ain't a thing anymore, even before you account for the challenges she would face as a woman and a Latina. e: post below VideoGameVet posted:She remains overwhelmingly popular in her district. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 21:14
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Mellow Seas posted:It's also a shame that their attacks on her have worked so well; her overall favorability is in the toilet, with high name recognition, and it seems ridiculous in retrospect that we ever thought of her as someone who could get involved in Presidential politics, because her brand is pretty well tarnished. The attacks from the right couldn't be countered with how many in her own party were unwilling to defend her, or attacking her themselves. She remains overwhelmingly popular in her district.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:15
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So why are the left making GBS threads on AOC now anyways? Is it just because she's stuck in a situation where both parties hate everything she stands for and the messaging machines of both parties have been focused on tearing her down for... uh... as long as she's been in politics, if not longer?
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Nov 12, 2021 21:30
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Randalor posted:So why are the left making GBS threads on AOC now anyways? Is it just because she's stuck in a situation where both parties hate everything she stands for and the messaging machines of both parties have been focused on tearing her down for... uh... as long as she's been in politics, if not longer? Vocal Twitter leftists (a toxic, terrible place to be) feel that she's betrayed the cause / is not sufficiently marxist / doesn't go far enough, etc etc. There's always somebody to your left, ready to tell you how much you've hosed up, while also not doing any work themselves.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:37
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Randalor posted:So why are the left making GBS threads on AOC now anyways? Is it just because she's stuck in a situation where both parties hate everything she stands for and the messaging machines of both parties have been focused on tearing her down for... uh... as long as she's been in politics, if not longer? She's stuck around long enough to have to make votes that are problematic given her progressive credentials (like her vote with respect to Iron Dome funding, which is understandable for a New York politician but not so cool from a general ideological standpoint). She also hasn't gone to war with the party centrists as fiercely as a lot of people would like. Her profile and the way she makes statements also has given her a bit of celebrity status that makes many progressives queasy (like going to the Met Gala or being a judge on Rupaul's Drag Race). It is a tricky situation. The only way to win is to triumph and somehow deliver good legislation or other positive changes. Even then, there's the question I think many people (including on here) are wrestling with of whether incrementalism and electoral politics will every be worth all the work.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:42
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Randalor posted:So why are the left making GBS threads on AOC now anyways? Is it just because she's stuck in a situation where both parties hate everything she stands for and the messaging machines of both parties have been focused on tearing her down for... uh... as long as she's been in politics, if not longer? For many, she committed the unforgivable sin of working within a party and a system to sway public discourse and achieve what legislative goals she could. If she wasn't going to seize power and lead the revolution, the only acceptable course of action would have been to become a ranting pariah with no voice outside of an irrelevant floor vote. Anything in between is proof that she's a worthless lib or CIA plant.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:49
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kzin602 posted:It's because they want to gently caress her and unlike MTG, she does not pander to them, this is confusing because in their worldview the sole reason a woman chooses to be attractive is for the benefit of men like them.  Boy, those republicans sure are dumb the way they broadbrush women, huh? eta: The right attacks her for the same reasons dumbass centrist Dems do, bc she's the furthest left allowed in electoral politics, and it's not enough to just politically neuter her activism & views (MAKE HER CRY!), they all have to pretend she's a big old commie. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 21:51
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Randalor posted:So why are the left making GBS threads on AOC now anyways? Is it just because she's stuck in a situation where both parties hate everything she stands for and the messaging machines of both parties have been focused on tearing her down for... uh... as long as she's been in politics, if not longer? She talks a good game but she folds regularly. She wouldn't vote against selling weapons to a genocidal regime because taking a stand would be a bridge too far. She's not willing to use her position as the most talked-about progressive voice in the country to push against Pelosi, and in fact is giving her credibility to a woman who is using it to stop substantive change for another god drat generation, at least. And then we'll all die to climate wars. Now you can argue that there's nothing she could achieve, that it's better for her not to piss of the other members of the caucus tilting at windmills. Maybe she shouldn't put forward legislation proposals that would make the more conservative dems look bad for voting against or ignoring. This is the, "Better things aren't possible," argument. But the core criticism of AOC is the same as the one for Biden... she got elected promising to push hard for progressive ideals, and her substantial record is weak.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:54
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Willa Rogers posted:
I've really noticed how you have no problem with people painting "liberals" with a broad brush but get super prickly whenever anybody criticizes the character of actual right-wingers.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:55
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She has pushed against Pelosi plenty of times and voted against the freaking infrastructure bill! She's pushing hard for progressive ideals but that's never, ever going be enough for leftist but for whatever reason keep applying that standard.
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Nov 12, 2021 21:56
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CNN is saying that the justice department has submitted an indictment for Steve Bannon. So can this be challenged?
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Nov 12, 2021 21:58
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