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Herstory Begins Now posted:Yeah there's about zero chance of it under the current political alignment. A lot can change in 10-20 years, but as it stands, there are just vastly too many conservatives and center-left types relative to everything else. Yeah this nation is going to look wildly different, politically, in 10-20 years. Wildly different. There's room for hope, even if it means I'll be in my 50s when we really start getting things done.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:33
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Willa Rogers posted:Good for you! You showed those lefties! It can happen but it would be the end result of a much larger (and very ugly) struggle with the ruling classes wherein they decide to share power to avoid a larger and more costly conflict. It won’t happen on it’s own outside of a few edge cases right now though because they have no incentive to stop cheating at the moment. You should all start unions is what I’m saying.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:36
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How are u posted:Yeah this nation is going to look wildly different, politically, in 10-20 years. Wildly different. There's room for hope, even if it means I'll be in my 50s when we really start getting things done. Yeah, you can say that again. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdob...sh=24a987f9456c quote:Alameda, Monterey, Santa Barbara, San Francisco, Santa Monica, Newport Beach, La Jolla and San Diego are all high-risk zones in the state. 1,300 square miles of land lie less than 3 feet above the high tide line in California, Oregon and Washington.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:37
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selec posted:Man I cannot come up with a more bad faith reading of Sanders than maybe those “three houses/millionaire” veiled antisemetic takes wine moms have about him Yeah, gently caress that. I like Bernie. I voted for Bernie last primary even if by then he was pretty obviously sunk. But he's a politician, and has been for longer than my adult life, and for most of that his brand was that of the outspoken independent rather than that of actually shaping national politics. While the Bernie the left fell in love with was the Bernie who was unsullied by risking anything or changing anything. Just for one simple thing, if Bernie had spent his legislative career as formally a Democrat, without changing a single vote or stance of his past (since he was seldom actually alone on what he did and often didn't vote "pure" anyway), it would have increased his chance of being President today more than any counterfactual about the "ratfucking" of 2016 or 2020. And he'd be supported by most of the same people. Just, you know, the people today complaining Bernie=Domesticated and AOC=CIA would never have hitched onto his wagon in the first place since they seem to find positive change (short of total victory) way less interesting than shedding a tear for an outcast martyr.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:42
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papa horny michael posted:I've always heard from staffers that they don't care about mail, or phone calls, to the offices. Unless it's a big media blitz of pressure, but otherwise that mail and calling don't persuade politicians from their positions. That neither are worth anything. Does anyone have any experience here? They care, but individual letters don't make it to the actual elected official unless it is something major. They usually just have a spreadsheet with tallys for Pro, Con, and Form Letter. If you sign one of those mass email lists, then they usually start going to spam once they receive the 200th identical email.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:43
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I'm genuinely glad to hear about all the activism and organizing people in this thread are doing. That's how we're going to get real change. I'm trying to do my small part too. I wish forcing the vote would make a difference but I just think it has the potential to backfire on us. I think AOC reneging on her pledge was the right call and I'd rather have a representative willing to change her mind and adapt to new information and circumstances. I'm glad she's my rep as she's better than pretty much every other rep.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:44
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Rosalind posted:I'm genuinely glad to hear about all the activism and organizing people in this thread are doing. That's how we're going to get real change. I'm trying to do my small part too. If you're - at the very least - disappointed, if not outright upset that Biden campaigned on a $15 minimum wage and then unceremoniously dropped it, I don't understand how you can't parse someone being, again, at the absolute bare minimum, disappointed, if not outright upset that AOC campaigned on forcing a floor vote on Medicare for All and then produced a busy olive garden's Friday night worth of word salad to justify abandoning it.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:49
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selec posted:Imagine having Nancy Pelosi ride your rear end for not raising enough money so the party can run Amy McGrath or whoever they set up in some chud district, and then you have to watch them support your challenger. What a messed up life to choose. I was thinking of constituent call time being more obsequious on their end, as they have to be with donors. "Yes, Ms. Rogers; I understand your concerns & I promise to do everything in my power to whip my caucus into supporting joining the rest of the world when it comes to healthcare and eradicating medical bankruptcy. "Oops, gotta go; Blue Cross lobbyists & my billionaire husband are on the other lines! Great talking to you!"
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Nov 12, 2021 23:49
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Lib and let die posted:Yeah, you can say that again. Yep. It's happening. Ron Paul would be so excited.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:51
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Lib and let die posted:If you're - at the very least - disappointed, if not outright upset that Biden campaigned on a $15 minimum wage and then unceremoniously dropped it, I don't understand how you can't parse someone being, again, at the absolute bare minimum, disappointed, if not outright upset that AOC campaigned on forcing a floor vote on Medicare for All and then produced a busy olive garden's Friday night worth of word salad to justify abandoning it. As a general rule, a promise to do something stupid is still doing something stupid. Now we can easily and readily disagree as to whether or not X is stupid, but I certainly would rather the stupid thing not be done than the promise followed through on. But that assumes a certain model of representation where I'm more interested in the exercise of general agency by my representative than fulfilling exact promises said in the campaign. I prefer to think of campaign pledges as individual data points that build a sense of their fitness for office than fairy oaths that must be followed lest the oathbreaker turn into a pumpkin. I'll grant that some people take things more literally than that, there's no uniform heuristic for voting.
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Nov 12, 2021 23:56
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There's been more hope recently with the news that my former congresswoman, and current Secretary of the Interior, Deb Haaland will be campaigning for the climate positions of Biden's build, back, better programs. She didn't have a ton of luck with Warren outreach to tribal groups during the primaries, but I think she'll have much more sway now pushing for acceptance of the Biden climate and green technology provisions. https://www.eenews.net/articles/haaland-makes-cop-26-pitch/
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Nov 13, 2021 00:01
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kaynorr posted:As a general rule, a promise to do something stupid is still doing something stupid. Now we can easily and readily disagree as to whether or not X is stupid, but I certainly would rather the stupid thing not be done than the promise followed through on. I mean, ultimately it's up to her to make the calculation if the supporters she's going to burn outweighs the support she's received from her Party since softening her positions. I'm not going to have any regrets about withholding financial and rhetorical support for her, though.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:03
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Lib and let die posted:If you're - at the very least - disappointed, if not outright upset that Biden campaigned on a $15 minimum wage and then unceremoniously dropped it, I don't understand how you can't parse someone being, again, at the absolute bare minimum, disappointed, if not outright upset that AOC campaigned on forcing a floor vote on Medicare for All and then produced a busy olive garden's Friday night worth of word salad to justify abandoning it. Wasn't it voted down a few months ago by Sinema and quote:"There should be a national minimum wage of $15 an hour," Biden said during his first address to a joint session of Congress on April 28. "Nobody working 40 hours a week should be living below the poverty line." quote:The president allayed a range of concerns around the economy during a Thursday press conference. Among them is the nationwide labor shortage, which has seen hiring slow despite millions of Americans still being unemployed. The shortage may be delaying a full labor-market recovery, but he told journalists at the White House there's an easy solution. Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 00:04
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Baronash posted:I can understand why AOC wouldn't want to force a vote on M4A when Lee Carter did exactly that with the already doomed RTW repeal in Virginia and the resulting narrative (including in this forum) was that VA Democrats voting down the bill (which, again, was already procedurally doomed) was somehow his fault. If you bottle something up in committee and refuse to vote on it you get credit for the theoretical possibility that you might have voted yes, but if someone makes you vote on it and you vote 'nay' that's not your fault and all the blame fur your actions goes on the person who made you pick a side because asking you to do your job and vote on legislation is v rude <  >Oh god what have I done I smell toast VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 00:08
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Baronash posted:I can understand why AOC wouldn't want to force a vote on M4A when Lee Carter did exactly that with the already doomed RTW repeal in Virginia and the resulting narrative (including in this forum) was that VA Democrats voting down the bill (which, again, was already procedurally doomed) was somehow his fault. Iirc he was such a gigantic rear end in a top hat to the members of his own party that he exploded any previous consensus or working relationships that might have helped get the bill passed. He tied the hostage down to the train tracks and shot them dead before the train even came ‘round the bend. Which is pretty on-brand for internet leftists tbh
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Nov 13, 2021 00:10
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idiotsavant posted:Iirc he was such a gigantic rear end in a top hat to the members of his own party that he exploded any previous consensus or working relationships that might have helped get the bill passed. He tied the hostage down to the train tracks and shot them dead before the train even came ‘round the bend. Which is pretty on-brand for internet leftists tbh That's the narrative the OP was talking about! Apparently it's very rude to make centrists vote down actually left laws.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:12
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Darkrenown posted:Wasn't it voted down a few months ago by Sinema and You're right, "allowed the party of which he is ostensibly the figurehead of to maliciously means-test it so it precludes most of the American working population" would be a much more accurate description of what happened to the $15 minimum wage! Harold Fjord posted:That's the narrative the OP was talking about! The very rude internet leftists, who are very unfair and mean to your favorite politicians (The Dems!!),
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Nov 13, 2021 00:14
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idiotsavant posted:Iirc he was such a gigantic rear end in a top hat to the members of his own party that he exploded any previous consensus or working relationships that might have helped get the bill passed. He tied the hostage down to the train tracks and shot them dead before the train even came ‘round the bend. Which is pretty on-brand for internet leftists tbh Sounds like a moderate Dem, ha.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:17
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In 2014 only 60% of Americans made over $15 an hour. Now it's 80%. It's rough because when Fight for 15 first started, it was regarded as being too aspirational a figure ("can we try $12?"). Now it's too low of a figure for all but the poorest of Americans to benefit from. And the insufficiency of $15 is only getting worse by the day with prices going up. Politically, I wonder if advocates should start pitching it not as "raise the minimum wage" but as "raise wages". I think people who currently make $15-20 an hour don't realize that a $15 minwage would put extreme upward pressure on their wages. Pass the minimum wage, index it to inflation, and throw in some policies to incentivize employers to raise non-minimum wages on top of that.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:18
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I think Representative Ocasio-Cortez is pretty inspirational, even if she's far from perfect. My personal favorite Representative is Representative Porter. And, of course, supporting local politicians and/or getting involved yourself is almost its own reward! There is still hope for us all, I think.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:23
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idiotsavant posted:Iirc he was such a gigantic rear end in a top hat to the members of his own party that he exploded any previous consensus or working relationships that might have helped get the bill passed. He tied the hostage down to the train tracks and shot them dead before the train even came ‘round the bend. Which is pretty on-brand for internet leftists tbh What I can't understand is why the governor totally forgot that it was all Carter's fault and responded to a question about RTW with the frank answer that it wasn't in the cards because the business community opposed it and not because of Carter's sassy tweets. Can't believe Carter tweeted so hard it mindwiped the governor! https://richmond.com/news/virginia/...bac525f9b9.html quote:
And the 2021 gubernatorial candidate! https://www.virginiamercury.com/2021/06/03/he-opposed-right-to-work-repeal-before-but-mcauliffe-wont-say-take-a-clear-stance-now/ quote:However, McAuliffe was a little clearer in a discussion earlier this year with the Democratic Business Council of Northern Virginia.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:25
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idiotsavant posted:Iirc he was such a gigantic rear end in a top hat to the members of his own party that he exploded any previous consensus or working relationships that might have helped get the bill passed. He tied the hostage down to the train tracks and shot them dead before the train even came ‘round the bend. Which is pretty on-brand for internet leftists tbh It had failed for years in a row before and has failed every year since, thus vindicating him. He was tired of pretending it was still going to ever happen. It was never going to pass in a million years and they just blamed him for it even tho they voted against it, but that was going to happen anyway. I dont fault the centrist backlash against his upsetting their little dog and pony show, what annoyed me what how much pushback and grief he got from other leftists for actually shaking things up like they claimed they wanted.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:25
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idiotsavant posted:Iirc he was such a gigantic rear end in a top hat to the members of his own party that he exploded any previous consensus or working relationships that might have helped get the bill passed. He tied the hostage down to the train tracks and shot them dead before the train even came ‘round the bend. Which is pretty on-brand for internet leftists tbh Well sure that's the thing right. You can't be a firebrand who demands change from your own party and also a diplomatic negotiator who builds trust and relationships. You can't do both at the same time. Being a fighter means members of your own party will hate you. You can argue there's some way Lee could have threaded the needle and you'd probably be right but that's all hindsight. The issue is not that there is a magic path forward for progressive politicians that they're too stupid to see, is that the party hates progressive politics and we keep blaming the progressives for loving it up somehow.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:25
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Fighting members of your own party by demanding your own bill be shoved ahead of theirs in a packed legislative queue isn't very effective because everyone thinks their own pet bill is most important or at least important enough to be considered in the negotiated order.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:29
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If you are presented with a bill you want to pass and vote against it because the guy who pushed it to a vote is a big rude meanie man, you didn't want the bill to pass
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Nov 13, 2021 00:30
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Lib and let die posted:You're right, "allowed the party of which he is ostensibly the figurehead of to maliciously means-test it so it precludes most of the American working population" would be a much more accurate description of what happened to the $15 minimum wage! That doesn't seem any more accurate, being a federal employee or not isn't means testing, that's just the workers Biden can give it to with an EO. Eight dem (and of course, 50 GOP) senators voted the idea down, and having them vote down this doesn't seem to have put any pressure on them. Sinema got some flak for the terrible curtsey and was perhaps embarrassed when people pointed out her previous tweets supporting a higher min wage, but that's already been eclipsed by her sabotage of BBB, and none of the others seem to have suffered anything.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:31
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Fighting members of your own party by demanding your own bill be shoved ahead of theirs in a packed legislative queue isn't very effective because everyone thinks their own pet bill is most important or at least important enough to be considered in the negotiated order. They all said they supported it passing, should've been the work of a minute lol. The left needs more assholes and the point of course is that he was right and the party even ran on admitting it afterwards
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Nov 13, 2021 00:32
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Epic High Five posted:It had failed for years in a row before and has failed every year since, thus vindicating him. He was tired of pretending it was still going to ever happen. It was never going to pass in a million years and they just blamed him for it even tho they voted against it, but that was going to happen anyway. What's interesting is that the narrative appears to have been entirely concocted within progressive or left-liberal discourse to rationalize to themselves their support for the centrist wing of the party that just kneecapped labor. The actual bigwigs like the governor or former/wannabe governor didn't bother with citing twitter drama or parliamentary  to justify it they just straight up said "yeah we're a pro-business party so we aren't doing that", it was everyone who didn't want to acknowledge Virginia Dems were first and foremost the pro-business party that invented these comforting excuses.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:39
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Epic High Five posted:They all said they supported it passing, should've been the work of a minute lol. The left needs more assholes and the point of course is that he was right and the party even ran on admitting it afterwards They supported passing it through the ordinary process that every other bill was going through. The reason Lee doesn't get to be a very special little boy who gets to cut in line is because then everyone wants to cut in line. Like this is one of the most basic things you learn about being a legislator even at the high school model legislature is that if you don't play by the same rules everyone else does, they don't owe you poo poo.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:39
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:If you are presented with a bill you want to pass and vote against it because the guy who pushed it to a vote is a big rude meanie man, you didn't want the bill to pass Who are we going to believe, all the other leftist politicians in Virginia that had been Lee's allies and working on passing the bill as well, plus all the socialist-electing voters in his district who kicked him to the curb for being an rear end in a top hat who ruined something great because it might get him enough attention to not be blown out in his vanity gubernatorial run? Or the guy who actually did the bad thing with every incentive to cast the outcome as a vast conspiracy against him? Then again, he IS really good at owning libs on twitter... I just don't know WHO has the right read on the situation!
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Nov 13, 2021 00:39
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1337JiveTurkey posted:They supported passing it through the ordinary process that every other bill was going through. The reason Lee doesn't get to be a very special little boy who gets to cut in line is because then everyone wants to cut in line. Like this is one of the most basic things you learn about being a legislator even at the high school model legislature is that if you don't play by the same rules everyone else does, they don't owe you poo poo. Reason Will Prevail!
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Nov 13, 2021 00:40
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1337JiveTurkey posted:They supported passing it through the ordinary process that every other bill was going through. The reason Lee doesn't get to be a very special little boy who gets to cut in line is because then everyone wants to cut in line. Like this is one of the most basic things you learn about being a legislator even at the high school model legislature is that if you don't play by the same rules everyone else does, they don't owe you poo poo. Correct. His gamble was that they were lying, based on this also being the same thing they'd been saying for years, hence his gambit
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Nov 13, 2021 00:43
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Do they support passing it, or putting it through regular process?
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Nov 13, 2021 00:48
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It's wild that party leaders can say "yeah the votes arent there, it was always going to die" and you will still get truly credulous folk who insist it just didnt follow the correct procedure. It was right of Lee Carter to push for that vote, and it would have been right to force a vote on M4A. Abolish any pretension that they are your allies.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:48
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Sanguinia posted:Who are we going to believe, all the other leftist politicians in Virginia that had been Lee's allies and working on passing the bill as well, plus all the socialist-electing voters in his district who kicked him to the curb for being an rear end in a top hat who ruined something great because it might get him enough attention to not be blown out in his vanity gubernatorial run? Or the guy who actually did the bad thing with every incentive to cast the outcome as a vast conspiracy against him? Maybe the governor was lying and the real reason pro-business centrists hosed over workers was purely because of twitter drama but that doesn't sound better in fact that makes them sound just as bad as the guy doing bad tweets if not worse. 1337JiveTurkey posted:Fighting members of your own party by demanding your own bill be shoved ahead of theirs in a packed legislative queue isn't very effective because everyone thinks their own pet bill is most important or at least important enough to be considered in the negotiated order. 1337JiveTurkey posted:They supported passing it through the ordinary process that every other bill was going through. The reason Lee doesn't get to be a very special little boy who gets to cut in line is because then everyone wants to cut in line. Like this is one of the most basic things you learn about being a legislator even at the high school model legislature is that if you don't play by the same rules everyone else does, they don't owe you poo poo. Sounds like Right To Work repeal wasn't a priority if it kept ending up at the back of the line year after year and then wasn't even brought up in the regular process even after Carter lost his primary and wasn't trying to "cut in line" anymore. In unrelated news I heard Democrats just barely lost the Assembly and every single statewide office at once, and I've heard that labor runs strong get-out-the-vote efforts for Democrats in states where they have the resources or at least they used to, if only someone in Virginia had thought up a way to strengthen unions during their years in power which might have tipped the scale, oh well.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:50
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Lee Carter pushed that vote because if it passed he'd get to claim he was a big hero who saved Right To Work Elimination from The Party Establishment, and if it went down he'd get to claim the Party Establishment was a corrupt anti-progressive machine despite all the progressive laws it passed that session. It was ENTIRELY about trying to inject leftist outrage into his effort to win the gubernatorial primary. It was baby's first palace intrigue, and people rightfully didn't fall for it and put the blame where it belonged, on him for being a self-centered dumbass. The man is a grifter.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:52
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Sanguinia posted:Who are we going to believe, all the other leftist politicians in Virginia that had been Lee's allies and working on passing the bill as well, plus all the socialist-electing voters in his district who kicked him to the curb for being an rear end in a top hat who ruined something great because it might get him enough attention to not be blown out in his vanity gubernatorial run? Or the guy who actually did the bad thing with every incentive to cast the outcome as a vast conspiracy against him? Uhh okay lol  Personally I think it's a pretty easy situation to read simply by looking at the vote that was taken, looking at who voted against it, and by deductive reasoning concluding that those who voted against it did not want to pass it, because otherwise they would have voted for it instead
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Nov 13, 2021 00:55
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1337JiveTurkey posted:They supported passing it through the ordinary process that every other bill was going through. quote:For the third straight year, Del. Lee Carter (D-Manassas) filed a bill to repeal Virginia’s ‘Right to Work’ law. And for the third time, it sat in committee without a vote... Filed back in December, the bill never made it on the committee’s docket to be discussed in more than a month. The committee doesn’t plan to meet again before Crossover Day, effectively killing the proposal for this session.
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Nov 13, 2021 00:56
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What about him forcing the vote made you so angry you constructed this grand narrative about his secret intentions?
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Nov 13, 2021 00:58
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Sanguinia posted:Lee Carter pushed that vote because if it passed he'd get to claim he was a big hero who saved Right To Work Elimination from The Party Establishment Why did it need saving in the first place lol. I'm dying to know.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:00
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