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1337JiveTurkey posted:Fighting members of your own party by demanding your own bill be shoved ahead of theirs in a packed legislative queue isn't very effective because everyone thinks their own pet bill is most important or at least important enough to be considered in the negotiated order. Not "shoved ahead". Voted on at all. The bill had been killed in several preceding legislative sessions by the people in charge of scheduling not even bringing the bill up in committee, let alone permitting a vote on it, and was set to be silently ignored again.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:07
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VitalSigns posted:Incredible. It didn't. That's the entire point, and why every leftist in Virginia turned on him for the boneheaded stunt. The fact that people still stan for the guy is shocking to me.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:07
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Why were all the local unions upset at Carter for doing that?
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Nov 13, 2021 01:11
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I think we can invoke the spirit of compromise and agree that Virginia dems are losers all around.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:12
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:If you are presented with a bill you want to pass and vote against it because the guy who pushed it to a vote is a big rude meanie man, you didn't want the bill to pass It's this, plain and simple  If they truly believed in it they would be able to look past one guy being a lil rude and just vote yes, instead of no. But maybe I just can't put myself in the mindset of the galaxy brained centrists.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:13
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Sanguinia posted:It didn't. That's the entire point, and why every leftist in Virginia turned on him for the boneheaded stunt. The fact that people still stan for the guy is shocking to me. So one of those other legislators who it totally didn't need to be saved from filed the bill the very next year once Carter lost his primary and was out of the picture right? *Amidala meme face* right?
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Nov 13, 2021 01:14
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Sanguinia posted:It didn't. Please explain in context of this: quote:For the third straight year, Del. Lee Carter (D-Manassas) filed a bill to repeal Virginia’s ‘Right to Work’ law. And for the third time, it sat in committee without a vote... Filed back in December, the bill never made it on the committee’s docket to be discussed in more than a month. The committee doesn’t plan to meet again before Crossover Day, effectively killing the proposal for this session. quote:Carter requested that the bill be brought to the floor for a full House vote to keep the bill from dying due to inaction for the third session in a row.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:15
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Why were all the local unions upset at Carter for doing that? Did they say? Do you have info?
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Nov 13, 2021 01:24
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CommieGIR posted:NYT going to bat for O'Keefe and Project Veritas I'm a bit behind here, but your interpretation of this article is entirely incorrect. The whole thing is written to attack O'Keefe and Veritas, up to the limit of possible legal exposure (as it mentions, they're already getting sued over another article). Heck, they directly refer to what they're doing as "deceptive reporting practices", which is dancing on the line. When they say, for example, that quote:The documents give new insight into the workings of the group at a time when it faces potential legal peril in the diary investigation — and has signaled that its defense will rely in part on casting itself as a journalistic organization protected by the First Amendment. This is not the authors saying that Veritas is actually a journalistic org. They're going out of their way at every point to say that their practices did not match normal journalism and both directly and indirectly refer to what they are doing in the language of spying operations. I am very curious how the NYT got what appears to be a complete set of email records from the Veritas attorney.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:28
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Sanguinia posted:Lee Carter pushed that vote because if it passed he'd get to claim he was a big hero who saved Right To Work Elimination from The Party Establishment, and if it went down he'd get to claim the Party Establishment was a corrupt anti-progressive machine despite all the progressive laws it passed that session. It was ENTIRELY about trying to inject leftist outrage into his effort to win the gubernatorial primary. It was baby's first palace intrigue, and people rightfully didn't fall for it and put the blame where it belonged, on him for being a self-centered dumbass. The man is a grifter. Okay, then the flip side is that the people who just wanted to keep killing it year after year in the shadows were doing so because doing so meant they could run every cycle on passing the RTW repeal, and if they failed for some unknown reason they'd be able to run on actually having done it. It was entirely about lowering the reactor rods in the discussion of state political priorities and who is going to make a mint as a result of the session to keep things slow and controllable to the enormous benefit of themselves and their moderate allies who sought to run on something they never intended to deliver because they knew they could ensure it never saw a vote
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Nov 13, 2021 01:28
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https://www.thestrikewave.com/original-content/betrayal-and-half-measures-in-the-old-dominionquote:Supporters of labor were about to be profoundly disappointed. Hmmmmm
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Nov 13, 2021 01:34
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I'm glad the canny virginny democrats managed to kill the Kill RTW Bill so that they could prevent, a democrat, from getting undue credit for passing a good thing. Dodged a massive bullet there, stopping a democrat from touting that they did something good.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:47
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How are u posted:Yeah this nation is going to look wildly different, politically, in 10-20 years. Wildly different. There's room for hope, even if it means I'll be in my 50s when we really start getting things done. The US isn't trending towards democracy, I don't see much to be hopeful about. And the international trend is certainly democracies moving towards authoritarianism. The Democrats already have a way bigger hurdle than the Republicans to overcome.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:47
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Fame Douglas posted:The US isn't trending towards democracy, I don't see much to be hopeful about. And the international trend is certainly democracies moving towards authoritarianism. The Democrats already have a way bigger hurdle than the Republicans to overcome. The Republicans have a smaller hurdle in large part because they recognize that there are hurdles to overcome to get what they want.
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Nov 13, 2021 01:54
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papa horny michael posted:I've always heard from staffers that they don't care about mail, or phone calls, to the offices. Unless it's a big media blitz of pressure, but otherwise that mail and calling don't persuade politicians from their positions. That neither are worth anything. Does anyone have any experience here? This varies by office, but competent offices generally do have staffers (often interns) sorting emails, mail, and answering phones. Form emails and letters and phone campaigns are treated as spam and often discarded unless they tie into something specific the congressperson is curious about (this is a good policy because there are fraudulent generation efforts by some groups). Calls from nonconstituents carry zero weight with extremely rare exceptions. On the other hand, a congressperson who wants to gauge interest in a particular issue may ask for numbers and content of voter contacts about a specific issue or bill, which will inform their vote. Staff may elevate specific contacts of relevance. In order of priority, phone calls are usually the most valuable, especially if they are detailed and about something that isn't a current hotbutton topic. Emails are fed through an auto-spam detector system that tries to sort them. Mail has to go through security and may be significantly delayed- but sometimes gets special attention, depending on the office. Effort counts. Not coming across as a crackpot or someone from the fringe also counts. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 01:56
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Discendo Vox posted:This varies by office, but competent offices generally do have staffers (often interns) sorting emails, mail, and answering phones. Form emails and letters and phone campaigns are treated as spam and often discarded unless they tie into something specific the congressperson is curious about (this is a good policy because there are fraudulent generation efforts by some groups). Calls from nonconstituents carry zero weight with extremely rare exceptions. On the other hand, a congressperson who wants to gauge interest in a particular issue may ask for numbers and content of voter contacts about a specific issue or bill, which will inform their vote. Staff may elevate specific contacts of relevance. But it’s important to remember that statistically it’s won’t matter what method you use or if you sound like a crackpot if you have enough money. Conversely, no matter the method or what you sound like, no money, no honey. Science says so: https://sunlightfoundation.com/2014/04/17/american-oligarchy-how-the-preferences-of-elites-shape-policy-outcomes/
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Nov 13, 2021 02:05
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selec posted:But it’s important to remember that statistically it’s won’t matter what method you use or if you sound like a crackpot if you have enough money. Conversely, no matter the method or what you sound like, no money, no honey. Science says so: That article that you're indirectly linking through a blog post isn't even related to the subject of the question, which is a specific and direct form of communication and not a quantitative correlation of policy preferences. You're posting this total non sequitur to attack the idea that people can communicate with their member of congress. gently caress off with the futility bullshit; if you think nothing anyone can do matters, you don't need to post here.
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Nov 13, 2021 02:09
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Discendo Vox posted:That article that you're indirectly linking through a blog post isn't even related to the subject of the question, which is a specific and direct form of communication and not a quantitative correlation of policy preferences. You're posting this total non sequitur to attack the idea that people can communicate with their member of congress. gently caress off with the futility bullshit; if you think nothing anyone can do matters, you don't need to post here. I think it’s an important piece of context that in a better society would be common knowledge among voters: it statistically doesn’t really matter what you want, so why bother with decorum or figuring out the right channel unless you’re cheering for a policy that fits the elite policy preference. You’re getting mad at somebody for pointing out you’re giving out helpful tips to shout into an unresponsive void. If you call your rep to support m4a, you are not moving the needle. I’m not saying people shouldn’t contact their reps, I’m just saying be realistic about your expectations for what that will get you, which is probably nothing unless you’re rich.
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Nov 13, 2021 02:16
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brb calling Ted Cruz's office to ask if I can have some healthcare He said no, this must be my fault because he can't possibly just be doing what the money tells him to do
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Nov 13, 2021 02:19
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Why is belief in the efficacy of electoral politics a prereq to discuss current events? That's a weird demand to make
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Nov 13, 2021 02:24
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Maybe I'm naïve but I still trust AOC's and Bernie's intentions. I mostly agree with the idea as suggested by others that they made a choice to work with the party and potentially accomplish something, or remain 'pure' as a rabble rouser on the outside and accomplish nothing. The problem, though, is that they still didn't really accomplish anything. I still think Bernie and AOC want good things to happen, but they took a gamble on working with the party and they lost. I don't really think either can do much at this point. I think if I was either of them I'd resign. Seems like a hopeless spot.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:02
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Hellblazer187 posted:Maybe I'm naïve but I still trust AOC's and Bernie's intentions. I mostly agree with the idea as suggested by others that they made a choice to work with the party and potentially accomplish something, or remain 'pure' as a rabble rouser on the outside and accomplish nothing. I totally agree. Anyone trying to reform the Dem party is between a rock & a hard place, and while idealism might impel them to continue the good fight (and I'm glad to see them do so), regulatory capture & donor-driven policies will win out in the end. It's a drat shame, because polling shows that "leftist" policies are crazy popular.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:12
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VitalSigns posted:brb calling Ted Cruz's office to ask if I can have some healthcare It'd be kind of amazing if you actually got to talk to him for him to say no to you. Normally the best we can do is corner them in elevators for them to give us even a view of their scathing disapproval. Tell us the truth, VS, did you lure him with twitter pornography?  Willa Rogers posted:I totally agree. I'm inclined to agree with your perspective, but I think the polls don't quite shake out that way. Leftist policies are extremely popular among people until you have to explain them, even a little, at which point they're ratings poison. M4A, people like. M4A being something that would require any change or difference whatsoever on their part, real or imagined, they hate.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:17
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Willa Rogers posted:It's a drat shame, because polling shows that "leftist" policies are crazy popular. Absolutely some are. Not so much with the abolishing police and progressive immigration takes.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:20
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Ershalim posted:I'm inclined to agree with your perspective, but I think the polls don't quite shake out that way. Leftist policies are extremely popular among people until you have to explain them, even a little, at which point they're ratings poison. M4A, people like. M4A being something that would require any change or difference whatsoever on their part, real or imagined, they hate. This is a narrative that was developed during the primaries. What you are describing is called Push Polling. Neurolimal posted:You can do this with literally anything. They're called leading questions and push polls; where the query is tailored to nudge the person towards the desired opinion. Kreeblah posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA It's proven to be an effective narrative for the soft left, particularly those inclined to assume the worst of other voters. It was honestly kind of genius to sell a notorious signifier of poor polling as a genuine cause for concern.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:32
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Neurolimal posted:This is a narrative that was developed during the primaries. What you are describing is called Push Polling. Is it entirely untrue then? I thought that it broke down along the lines of things like, people like the concept of M4A, but when you inform them they wouldn't have their current insurance, it triggered serious loss aversion and people turned on it really fast. I know push polling is also quite effective, but I thought that this one was legit because the changes to the medical system's structure made people extremely uneasy. I can imagine it being a very effective cudgel for the people who claim that we can't do anything and never should, so maybe I just got suckered by the propaganda here. Anecdotally most of the doctors I know hate the idea because working with medicare is apparently extremely annoying because of how many annoying policies it has, particularly as it relates to people in assisted living, but that kind of thing is way outside my comfort zone for things I know anything about. eta: the richer doctors hate it because they get less money from medicare than other insurers, but that's a secret.
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Nov 13, 2021 03:39
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papa horny michael posted:There's been more hope recently with the news that my former congresswoman, and current Secretary of the Interior, Deb Haaland will be campaigning for the climate positions of Biden's build, back, better programs. She didn't have a ton of luck with Warren outreach to tribal groups during the primaries, but I think she'll have much more sway now pushing for acceptance of the Biden climate and green technology provisions. https://www.eenews.net/articles/haaland-makes-cop-26-pitch/ Turns out she is pure poo poo, actually: https://www.audubon.org/news/as-oil-spill-cleanup-continues-feds-prepare-major-gulf-lease-sale quote:The U.S. Department of the Interior, meanwhile, is preparing to auction off oil and gas leases across 81 million acres in the Gulf, the largest such sale ever undertaken Love to drill more oil baby!!
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Nov 13, 2021 04:17
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lil poopendorfer posted:Turns out she is pure poo poo, actually: Like the last five times this was raised, the Biden administration is being forced to conduct the sales by a court order overturning their pause on the activity. Something communicated in the article you're linking and quoting other parts of.
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Nov 13, 2021 04:26
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Discendo Vox posted:Like the last five times this was raised, the Biden administration is being forced to conduct the sales by a court order overturning their pause on the activity. Something communicated in the article you're linking and quoting other parts of. Lol yes, they were really putting up a tough fight but the courts are just FORCING them, they did everything they could  Even if we accept that they HAD to continue auctioning leases, wanna show me where it said they had to auction off the largest amount of land to date? Its one thing to comply with an injunction by doing the bare minimum, it's quite another to comply in such a manner so as to set a record while doing it
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Nov 13, 2021 05:09
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lil poopendorfer posted:Lol yes, they were really putting up a tough fight but the courts are just FORCING them, they did everything they could The amount of land leased out is proportional to the amount of leases requested. The current round of new leases was approved in 2017 and goes to 2022 . So long as the paperwork is in order basically any lease must be granted. This isn't individual haggling, it a bureaucratic permits office. Its driven by a formula, and with a current injunction they also can't alter that without getting slapped by the court again for constructively working around an injunction. At this point its basically a huge stupid computer program. The executive order was to say the number of sales will be zero. The court said that stopping now would harm several states, and so authority to make that change must be established in court before action can be taken. Now you can read 3 judicial tacks into this, as injunctions usually signal a judge thinks a case has merits. 1. a perpetual game of kick the can where the case is thrown as moot without a judgment because oops those leases sold now, line up on the football next year charlie brown. 2. declaring that this is an appropriations issue that must be altered by congress 3. declaring that federal land leasing is a states rights issue if it could add or removes one penny of state revenue or some other wacky BS to kill federal powers. Its very odd as an injunction because it allows permanent damage to prevent the deferral of profits, arguably the damage is financial harm that isn't irreparable. However courts have always been a bit more skeptical of Executive orders so  .
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Nov 13, 2021 05:44
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These conversations about "the left" and "leftist" would probably be a lot better if we all socially agreed upon the fact that there is no left. It doesn't exist, it doesn't have social or cultural capital, it controls no institutions or power. It's a bunch of individuals being furious at the state of things but having no meaningful praxis to enact change. It works with different pet projects or things that have enough crossover with liberals that it can maybe get some stuff done somewhere, but there is no "left", at least in America. It was ruthless destroyed all through the 60s and 70s through a combination of selling out, being out maneuvered, being broken into the emerging PMC, and was finally shot in the head by the Dems via Carter and the shift to neoliberalism. Then Reagan, Bush, and Clinton did the rest. Neoliberalism is a new and specifically different formation than capital took before, and it is capital winning the long 20th century as it became a truly global creature and in turn brutalized us into being global creatures as well. And now that it has found and heightened new and lethal ramifications at global scale, we're trying to figure out what a new left could be and will need to be. And we're gonna find that out through ruthless competition of getting crushed until we don't, or it all collapses to a point where the ideas of left and right are just nonsensical as we live between the death throes of empires. Like, if anyone had the loving answers, we wouldn't be here, right? The person with the answers would have started us on the path. But that person or persons hasn't been forced into reality by the material conditions yet - they're probably honestly just not that bad. Ya, poo poo sucks, but it doesn't "company coal mine town with the US military bombing labor in their own country" suck, and it was that kind of pressure that really forced the moment. Work for the wins you think we can get. Build your local and immediate resiliency with friends, family, and neighbors. Try to be as good a person as you can, figure out your local organizers in DSA or whatever, and contribute where you can. But also, don't lose yourself in it, you're just one person on the tides of destiny.
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Nov 13, 2021 06:26
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TaintedBalance posted:These conversations about "the left" and "leftist" would probably be a lot better if we all socially agreed upon the fact that there is no left. It doesn't exist, it doesn't have social or cultural capital, it controls no institutions or power. It's a bunch of individuals being furious at the state of things but having no meaningful praxis to enact change. It works with different pet projects or things that have enough crossover with liberals that it can maybe get some stuff done somewhere, but there is no "left", at least in America. It was ruthless destroyed all through the 60s and 70s through a combination of selling out, being out maneuvered, being broken into the emerging PMC, and was finally shot in the head by the Dems via Carter and the shift to neoliberalism. Then Reagan, Bush, and Clinton did the rest. I don't know why anyone would be inspired to action by the near daily jerkoff fest in this thread about how leftism, electoral politics, America, and the world is dead and buried
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Nov 13, 2021 08:26
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Barrel Cactaur posted:The amount of land leased out is proportional to the amount of leases requested. The current round of new leases was approved in 2017 and goes to 2022 . So long as the paperwork is in order basically any lease must be granted. This isn't individual haggling, it a bureaucratic permits office. Its driven by a formula, and with a current injunction they also can't alter that without getting slapped by the court again for constructively working around an injunction. At this point its basically a huge stupid computer program. The executive order was to say the number of sales will be zero. The court said that stopping now would harm several states, and so authority to make that change must be established in court before action can be taken. Now you can read 3 judicial tacks into this, as injunctions usually signal a judge thinks a case has merits. Notice the amount of effort required to refute a meaningless, repeated and continually expanding conspiracist lie about how government operates, effort that has to be expended again and again because the people repeating the lie aren’t punished or stopped. The fact that this is due to a binding court order overturning meaningful executive action has been stated over and over and over again.
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Nov 13, 2021 09:50
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Sodomy Hussein posted:I don't know why anyone would be inspired to action by the near daily jerkoff fest in this thread about how leftism, electoral politics, America, and the world is dead and buried Personally, I find it pretty hard to feel inspired when any criticism aimed towards the Dems is met with some form of "Do you WANT the Republicans to win? It's naive of you to expect the Dems to put any real effort whatsoever into keeping any of their promises, actually trying to do the things they campaigned on would be bad for re-election...somehow. Quit complaining that all they gave you is half of a Pringle after promising you an actual meal, it's still more than zero which is therefore progress and you should just be grateful for that."
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Nov 13, 2021 10:06
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FlamingLiberal posted:Have some good news on a Friday I like to watch this and check off each one as their actually indicted https://youtu.be/DhD3I_AZJMY
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Nov 13, 2021 10:41
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Discendo Vox posted:Notice the amount of effort required to refute a meaningless, repeated and continually expanding conspiracist lie about how government operates, effort that has to be expended again and again because the people repeating the lie aren’t punished or stopped. The fact that this is due to a binding court order overturning meaningful executive action has been stated over and over and over again. How is it a lie if the person or people posting it think that is the way it works? Maybe they're just uninformed and, by showing them the relevant information, they learn.
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Nov 13, 2021 11:17
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Cranappleberry posted:How is it a lie if the person or people posting it think that is the way it works? Because it’s contradicted by the very thing they’re posting, because they converted it into a conspiracy theory when corrected, and because the exact same conspiratorial lie has been posted and corrected several times. The effect is to derail discussion by obligating other people to respond to a lack of effort with effort, and receive further abuse in return, over and over and over again. You might as well ask the question of why we don’t gently educate people spreading the belief that the vivid vaccine contains microchips. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 11:30
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Discendo Vox posted:Because it’s contradicted by the very thing they’re posting, because they converted it into a conspiracy theory when corrected, and because the exact same conspiratorial lie has been posted and corrected several times. The effect is to derail discussion by obligating other people to respond to a lack of effort with effort, and receive further abuse in return, over and over and over again. Their intent might be to express frustration with the Biden administration continuing the US government's kowtowing to the fossil fuel industry and also the ineffectiveness of climate change policy in general. Maybe they don't respect the rule of law or the powers of the court enforcing the algorithmic bureaucratic nightmare giving permits to destroy the earth. Locally I have seen the exact same thing with companies dumping into the water supply and also having free-reign with water even during drought. Any permits they need are rubber-stamped in perpetuity, try to get the offices that do this on the phone and, well, good luck. The courts have decided that the companies are grandfathered into the system- the land they own cannot be taxed or rezoned from the purpose they choose once they purchase it, new laws (environmental or otherwise) don't effect them. Nothing can be done local, county or state authorities, according to the courts and neither the executive nor legislators of the state care to try specific remedies. The company itself receives tax beaks and subsidies while it drains and pollutes water, it's trucks clog up and damage roads, it's plants produce pollution that directly impacts nearby schools to say nothing of wildlife. And the land? Once it's used up they don't have to replant or refill, it's sold either to put in power stations or condos or both. In essence, the system is a machine and there is nothing to be done even if the right people are elected. The effect might be that it "derails" discussion but the intended purpose might be to express very real frustration. Conversations spinning off into different threads is natural and information being posted and re-posted happens. I certainly didn't know about the courts enforcing permits for offshore drilling until it was posted. Not everyone follows the thread that closely or reads every article. Comparing people having emotional reactions is fine, except the emotional reaction to permits being given to offshore drilling is one that comes from a basis of solid fact- it will hurt the environment. Whereas people who are anti-vax are being conned. It's unfair to try to enforce some standard of belief in the system that many believe is broken (with plenty of evidence) in order to post in this thread, just as it's unfair to enforce a standard of knowledge. Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Nov 13, 2021 |
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Nov 13, 2021 11:59
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Epic High Five posted:Okay, then the flip side is that the people who just wanted to keep killing it year after year in the shadows were doing so because doing so meant they could run every cycle on passing the RTW repeal, and if they failed for some unknown reason they'd be able to run on actually having done it. It was entirely about lowering the reactor rods in the discussion of state political priorities and who is going to make a mint as a result of the session to keep things slow and controllable to the enormous benefit of themselves and their moderate allies who sought to run on something they never intended to deliver because they knew they could ensure it never saw a vote They basically made an example of Carter for daring to actually try to enact the good things he promised, it also ruffled a lot of careerists because he didn't go through the proper think-tank channels to do so(thus the accusations of "wanting to take credit" or whatever; careerists cannot see the benefits of the policy beyond how it affects their own careers and assume everyone else is similarly sociopathic) papa horny michael posted:I've always heard from staffers that they don't care about mail, or phone calls, to the offices. Unless it's a big media blitz of pressure, but otherwise that mail and calling don't persuade politicians from their positions. That neither are worth anything. Does anyone have any experience here? The ruling class generally don't care about much besides profit and/or property. The best a big phone call/mail rush can do is make them soften their language somewhat but they'll very rarely actually change their minds unless they're personally inconvenienced or feel threatened by the consequences of inaction. It's why old-timey union statements used to have an underlying message of "or we'll start breaking your poo poo"
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Nov 13, 2021 12:21
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Barrel Cactaur posted:The amount of land leased out is proportional to the amount of leases requested. The current round of new leases was approved in 2017 and goes to 2022 . So long as the paperwork is in order basically any lease must be granted. This isn't individual haggling, it a bureaucratic permits office. Its driven by a formula, and with a current injunction they also can't alter that without getting slapped by the court again for constructively working around an injunction. At this point its basically a huge stupid computer program. The executive order was to say the number of sales will be zero. The court said that stopping now would harm several states, and so authority to make that change must be established in court before action can be taken. Now you can read 3 judicial tacks into this, as injunctions usually signal a judge thinks a case has merits. Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Discendo Vox posted:Notice the amount of effort required to refute a meaningless, repeated and continually expanding conspiracist lie about how government operates, effort that has to be expended again and again because the people repeating the lie aren’t punished or stopped. The fact that this is due to a binding court order overturning meaningful executive action has been stated over and over and over again. Discendo Vox posted:Because it’s contradicted by the very thing they’re posting, because they converted it into a conspiracy theory when corrected, and because the exact same conspiratorial lie has been posted and corrected several times. The effect is to derail discussion by obligating other people to respond to a lack of effort with effort, and receive further abuse in return, over and over and over again. Shut up and stop backseat modding you dweeb.
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Nov 13, 2021 12:41
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