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"Wow the Tell me what bike to buy thread has a lot of new posts!"person posted:carbs ...oh. Anyway, I've shamefully left my two carbed cold natured Hawk GT for over a month outside many times over the last two years, and it still fires up every time without a need to clean. Runs flawlessly. That's an extreme example, because something like a DR650 will fire up even easier, and requires no attention if it's not gunked up. Just get a DR650, and take advantage of the wealth of Procycle parts and knowledge when you want to mess with the fueling.
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Nov 15, 2021 17:37
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Maybe I misled by saying there was a debate. He's more illustrating the pros and cons while explaining that carbs aren't necessarily outdated tech and that EFI isn't as big of a change as the layman may think. The part about average/stock fuel mapping explains why a lot of people seem to throw power commanders at bikes.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:21
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A comprehensive list of things EFI does better than carbs: 1. Meet emissions standards 2. Integrate TC/dynamic engine braking/bidirectional QS That's it, carbs are objectively better in every other way, hopefully that spares you watching an f9 video.
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Nov 15, 2021 20:31
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F9 videos are good, don’t be grouchy
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Nov 15, 2021 20:39
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I don't have an opinion on f9 either way believe it or not, it's more that the thrust of the video didn't seem to be clear. Oh I forgot to add: 3. EFI prevents fuel starvation in negative G dives, it's a big advantage if your messerschmitt is up against a spitfire
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Nov 15, 2021 21:10
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I've read the last 100 comments going back and forth I just want to add that there is a huge difference between late 90s fuel injection, and the current system. The last 10 years brought us a big change in computer control engine management, it's centralization and levels of fine-tuning. I'm referring to cars because that's what I know, but I'm noticing this on motorcycles as well. When these systems are open to outside adjustments, you can do anyting and everything, assuming you know what you're doing. And carburetors, being a linear rudimentary system by default, are not really open for improvement.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:19
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All the 'improvement' you can make to EFI is just fixing emissions and noise and marketing related bullshit, if the system is optimal for the engine then the only advantages are #2 in my post above. Again: carbs (on bikes) are objectively superior in every way except for the above. No EFI system can match carb first-touch smoothness unless you're prepared to have three fuel injectors per cylinder (or maybe GDI, be interested to know how that would go in a bike). GP bikes have to have throttle bodies that open independently per cylinder to prevent the sudden shunt that always happens when moving from zero to 5% throttle, carbs do this automatically. Superbikes have to have variable length intake trumpets and two stage injection to ensure good atomization across the rev range, carbs do this automatically. Big twins have to have secondary throttle plates to stop low rpm jerking, carbs fix this automatically. Then there's weight, complexity, packaging, ease of repair and cost which are all boring number based qualities that carbs nonetheless win.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:28
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Counterpoint for EFI +ease of troubleshooting +resistance to abuse/neglect +cleaner to work on Anyway, my point is that arguing carbs vs EFI is like arguing conventional ignition vs distributorless ignition. Regardless of your feelings for it, the world has moved on. You can still keep working on carbs as long as people keep running old bikes. That's fine, nobody's trying to take them away. But someone not wanting carbs is not a radical concept of a diseased brain, it's just that's how things are now. And they also didn't stop making good music when you left high school or college.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:49
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Slavvy posted:3. EFI prevents fuel starvation in negative G dives, it's a big advantage if your messerschmitt is up against a spitfire Enjoy your ocular trauma.
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Nov 15, 2021 21:51
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Slavvy posted:3. EFI prevents fuel starvation in negative G dives, it's a big advantage if your messerschmitt is up against a spitfire
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Nov 16, 2021 00:07
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Finger Prince posted:Counterpoint for EFI 1. No, carbs are much easier to troubleshoot than EFI. If you think a scan tool makes life any easier at all then lol 2. No, they are not more resistant to abuse or neglect. All you have to do to abuse an EFI engine is fit a noisy pipe or a pod filter, just like a carb It is nothing like conventional ignition vs coil on p plug because one of those systems is objectively better in every way, something that is not the case with efi and carbs. Again: carbs are better in every possible way except for emissions and rider aids. If those things didn't exist every bike would still be running carbs and it would be great. It has nothing to do with what I think is cool and good, these are objective measurable facts you seem to be in raging denial about.
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Nov 16, 2021 02:15
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:I thought what's her name's orifice nullified that advantage? Miss Shilling.
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Nov 16, 2021 02:28
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Finger Prince posted:Anyway, my point is that arguing carbs vs EFI is like arguing conventional ignition vs distributorless ignition. Regardless of your feelings for it, the world has moved on. You can still keep working on carbs as long as people keep running old bikes. That's fine, nobody's trying to take them away. But someone not wanting carbs is not a radical concept of a diseased brain, it's just that's how things are now. And they also didn't stop making good music when you left high school or college. I agree. the world has moved on. Electric is the future. I'm here for it. I'm skipping the modern consumer bullshit where I'm locked out of the vehicle's software. Electric motors are easy to hack. Someone's proprietary flavor of networking, diagnostics, and software, less so. For now at least with a carburetor I can adjust it for the bullshit its about to be exposed to. If people rode their carbed bikes as much as they gripe about them they'd never gum up.
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Nov 16, 2021 04:02
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Anyway, I've done enough shitposting about carburetors for one day. Other than the usual bike stuff, is there anything model specific to keep an eye out for on a 675cc Street Triple R? (2016 for reference).
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Nov 16, 2021 04:09
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We better update the other thread title to "a human being is just a very simple EFI system".
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Nov 16, 2021 05:13
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Slavvy posted:stop low rpm jerking hey look I'm just trying to recharge my crystals here
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Nov 16, 2021 05:19
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Finger Prince posted:Anyway, I've done enough shitposting about carburetors for one day. Other than the usual bike stuff, is there anything model specific to keep an eye out for on a 675cc Street Triple R? (2016 for reference). I had a 2015 with a persistent oil leak at the crankcase. Dunno how widespread that was though.
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Nov 17, 2021 15:56
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The older ones had a penchant for destroying the output shaft seal and then barfing oil all over the back tire. I'm not sure when/if they fixed that
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Nov 17, 2021 17:03
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They have the worst cam chain tensioner design in the universe, like even bmw's pathetic built in rattle design is better, and a tendency to poo poo out chains. Also triumph electrics haven't really improved since the 70's and the 675 is particularly bad because it has a battery about half the size it should.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:36
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Do those get hate for how the front end looks? Or do people give it a pass because being a triple make it extra cool. The front headlight is just so loving jarring when I look at it and that's coming from someone who generally likes yamaha's alien front ends.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:46
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Russian Bear posted:Do those get hate for how the front end looks? Or do people give it a pass because being a triple make it extra cool. The front headlight is just so loving jarring when I look at it and that's coming from someone who generally likes yamaha's alien front ends. I don't mind it, but I owned a 1st gen multistrada and got used to that. It looks better than the 1st gen round headlight striple, imo, and I'm not a fan of the alien eyes they went with on the 765. It's a decent looking bike. Looks flash enough, looks cool enough.
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Nov 18, 2021 00:33
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The current Street Triple reminds me of a praying mantis. 
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Nov 18, 2021 00:40
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The eyebrow lights look daft, the previous ones of the same shape but without eyebrows are fine. The new MT10 clearly has eyebrow envy though and has dialed them to 11.
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Nov 18, 2021 01:01
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Russian Bear posted:Do those get hate for how the front end looks? Or do people give it a pass because being a triple make it extra cool. The front headlight is just so loving jarring when I look at it and that's coming from someone who generally likes yamaha's alien front ends. The intended effect used to be the appearance of a factory crashed sportbike. They've since tried to stick to that while also trying to be hip and trendy and your revulsion is the result. Every last naked triumph looks better with a single round light. Fight me.
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Nov 18, 2021 05:18
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I like the twin round headlights better :/
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Nov 18, 2021 05:28
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TheBacon posted:I like the twin round headlights better :/ For sport bikes?
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Nov 18, 2021 06:12
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Slavvy posted:Every last naked triumph looks better with a single round light. Fight me. In response to this
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Nov 18, 2021 06:38
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Slavvy posted:The intended effect used to be the appearance of a factory crashed sportbike. They've since tried to stick to that while also trying to be hip and trendy and your revulsion is the result. Not saying you're wrong, the Cb650r headlight would probably look pretty sweet on a 675 striple. But the Triumph the insult comic doggles don't look bad, imo (for me to poop on). Better than the transformer travesties on the big Yamahas.
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Nov 18, 2021 07:51
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Yeah they're fine. It's just olds wanting them to look old. As for the electronics I had mine for 3 years / 20k miles and never had a single issue. I'd still have that drat bike if I hadn't of moved overseas.
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Nov 18, 2021 15:23
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I'm looking into getting my second bike in a few months. Is there a decent midsized sports-tourer with upright ergos? I rode a Trident on the interstate and hated how easily it whipped around, but the Tenere (which was a joy) and other ADVs seem a little too tall when needing to stop every quarter-/half-mile in city traffic. Do I just slap a touring screen on an MT-07 and unlearn the fear of death on the Dallas highway system?
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Nov 18, 2021 15:45
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Spiggy posted:I'm looking into getting my second bike in a few months. Is there a decent midsized sports-tourer with upright ergos? I rode a Trident on the interstate and hated how easily it whipped around, but the Tenere (which was a joy) and other ADVs seem a little too tall when needing to stop every quarter-/half-mile in city traffic. Do I just slap a touring screen on an MT-07 and unlearn the fear of death on the Dallas highway system? Super Tenere seat can adjust by a couple of inches. I have a 30 in inseam and can flat-foot it just fine. Where are you located? I'm selling nt700v in Philadelphia. ABs and linked brakes
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Nov 18, 2021 16:15
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Spiggy posted:I'm looking into getting my second bike in a few months. Is there a decent midsized sports-tourer with upright ergos? I rode a Trident on the interstate and hated how easily it whipped around, but the Tenere (which was a joy) and other ADVs seem a little too tall when needing to stop every quarter-/half-mile in city traffic. Do I just slap a touring screen on an MT-07 and unlearn the fear of death on the Dallas highway system? MT07 + touring screen = Tracer 7(00) ish. Might be worth a look.
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Nov 18, 2021 16:46
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I don't know if they're at dealers yet but the Triumph Tiger Sport 660 is a touring version of the Trident.
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Nov 18, 2021 16:51
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Nitrox posted:Super Tenere seat can adjust by a couple of inches. I have a 30 in inseam and can flat-foot it just fine. Sadly north Dallas. The NT looks like my sort of ugly and matches my use case. I forgot to mention it was the Tenere 700 that I rode; the Super Tenere is definitely too much for a second bike. E: thanks for the follow-ups Lungboy/FBS. I really want a tracer 7 but it's one of the models that never made it to the US for some reason. The Tiger was on my radar but I seem to remember that Triumph maintenance fees are higher than Japanese brands which I'm skewing to. Spiggy fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 17:00
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Spiggy posted:The Tiger was on my radar but I seem to remember that Triumph maintenance fees are higher than Japanese brands which I'm skewing to. Triumph claim in the Tiger release info that it should be cheaper than rivals due to 10k service intervals and because it's easier to work on. They estimate 30% cheaper but I wouldn't trust that at all.
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Nov 18, 2021 17:17
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Lungboy posted:Triumph claim in the Tiger release info that it should be cheaper than rivals due to 10k service intervals and because it's easier to work on. They estimate 30% cheaper but I wouldn't trust that at all. Random mechanical failures will more than make up the difference.
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Nov 18, 2021 19:15
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Spiggy posted:Sadly north Dallas. The NT looks like my sort of ugly and matches my use case. I forgot to mention it was the Tenere 700 that I rode; the Super Tenere is definitely too much for a second bike. I also wanted a Tracer 7 in the US, the closest thing I found with 17” wheels as standard is the NC750. If you’re willing to go used you might look for Tracer 900s. BabelFish fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 20:13
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Spiggy posted:Sadly north Dallas. The NT looks like my sort of ugly and matches my use case. I forgot to mention it was the Tenere 700 that I rode; the Super Tenere is definitely too much for a second bike. T7 is made to fulfill a purpose and it's not touring. I would recommend you take a look at Honda nt750x, they get better equipped in later years. Extremely comfortable as far as ergonomics, incredibly safe, and very cheap to run. Also available with optional DCT transmission, which is surprisingly good. You'll drown in cheap aftermarket options. The only downside is the engine is very scooter-like, because it was made to be economical above all else. You get mid-range torque and that's it. However, there are people riding with quarter million miles on the odometer with nothing but basic maintenance. If you're looking for a touring bike at about 500 lb range, it's hard to beat
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Nov 19, 2021 08:15
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Finger Prince posted:While I'm dying on this hill, since this is the tell me what bike to buy thread, let's see if I can rephrase this line of thought. 2008 Bonneville.
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Nov 19, 2021 08:15
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Slavvy posted:1. No, carbs are much easier to troubleshoot than EFI. If you think a scan tool makes life any easier at all then lol Would a new cam shaft be advisable if one were the change from EFI to carb or carbs to EFI?
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Nov 19, 2021 08:19
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