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Nenonen posted:The number of nukes does not factor into whether there could be a war, as even a fraction of the current arsenal would suffice to devastate both sides and make life very unpleasant for a very long time. According to conventional thinking a full nuclear disarmament would even make a war in South China Sea more likely because there would be no threat of MAD. I'm well aware of that. It's the coming to the table for the first time to talk about nukes that's the important development here.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:20
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I think it's accurate to say that white people are tricked into believing that racism benefits them, that all the other races are coming to steal what they have, that immigrants are taking their jobs, that black people are taking promotions they deserve, that the guys like Trump and Youngkin who are picking their pockets are actually protecting them from lazy greedy black people etc. The only white people for whom this is not true are the 0.1% at the top who are doing the pickpocketing of the working white people they're tricking with white supremacy. They're just pieces of poo poo and will never be allies of PoC because at the end of the day they owe their wealth and position to white supremacy (this is also why the Democrats who are 0.1%ers themselves or wannabe are not allies incidentally) The only alternative is that they aren't being tricked, that racism really is in their material interest, and it's our job as liberals who want to end racism to keep them from finding this out or shame them into being non-racist against their material interests, and I don't believe that racism is a benefit and if it is then the battle is lost because people will pick their material interests every time over feeling like a good person. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 17:22
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The American Petroleum Institute issued a joint statement from America's Oil and Gas companies in response to Biden's directive to the FTC. - They deny any wrong doing. - Warn not to go after their retail gas station affiliates. - Say price increases are largely global and driven by market forces, so it can't just be U.S. oil and gas companies involved. - Says the price increases are due to the Biden administration cancelling pipeline projects and restricting oil and gas drilling on federal lands and OPEC holding back supply. - Says the investigation is political and calls on the government to support domestic oil and gas to bring down prices. https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/status/1461004808777777158
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Nov 17, 2021 17:24
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Democrats are so out of touch, rich, and separated from America at large they don't realize calling people Nazi's is a losing strategy. Maybe at Trump's second inaugaration they'll figure it out. 
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Nov 17, 2021 17:30
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The American Petroleum Institute issued a joint statement from America's Oil and Gas companies in response to Biden's directive to the FTC. This infuriates me. One of the last engagements I had with Facebook was finding out how many people are dismally ignorant enough to immediately blame Joe biden for gas prices (and deride and dismiss any and all facts that dispel that narrative). They will eat that framing up.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:32
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:His majesty has condescended to grant permission for legislation to be passed. Oh he didn't say anything about voting yes.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:32
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Democrats are so out of touch, rich, and separated from America at large they don't realize calling people Nazi's is a losing strategy. Maybe at Trump's second inaugaration they'll figure it out. Can't call the fascists fascists, they wont vote for you in increasingly fascist America.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:32
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Democrats are so out of touch, rich, and separated from America at large they don't realize calling people Nazi's is a losing strategy. Maybe at Trump's second inaugaration they'll figure it out. Meanwhile, family members will continue to call me a communist/socialist/rioter/etc to my face for half assedly supporting moderate Dem policies like the ACA. Keep  ing only democrats though. You're doing so much to help the problem.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:36
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VitalSigns posted:I think it's accurate to say that white people are tricked into believing that racism benefits them, that all the other races are coming to steal what they have, that immigrants are taking their jobs, that black people are taking promotions they deserve, that the guys like Trump and Youngkin who are picking their pockets are actually protecting them from lazy greedy black people etc. The only white people for whom this is not true are the 0.1% at the top who are doing the pickpocketing of the working white people they're tricking with white supremacy. They're just pieces of poo poo and will never be allies of PoC because at the end of the day they owe their wealth and position to white supremacy (this is also why the Democrats who are 0.1%ers themselves or wannabe are not allies incidentally) Having some (thankfully nonviolent) experience with the discrepancy between how law enforcement and teachers and others in positions of power treat white people versus minorities, I feel kind of compelled to say that what I've seen is that America is somewhat in the middle of your two descriptions. I don't think white people are "tricked" into being racist or that they aren't beneficiaries of racist discrepancies, but I think many people might be completely fooled at how much keeping society racist actually benefits them personally. But I guess you could say that about any non-wealthy American conservative right now. Right wing policies don't benefit them that much, but it's great to see people you don't like getting kept down.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:37
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As inflation continues to rise and material conditions get worse for middle class whites more people are going to stupidly embrace whoever promises the best turbo fascism in order to make things go back to way things "ought" to be, and I'll give you two guesses as to which political party has been running that playbook for years. I hope I'm wrong and that's just the depression talking.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:38
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Lol at Biden pretending to investigate the oil barons who pay for his campaigns. If he wanted to reduce domestic gas prices he could reinstate the oil export ban that we had from 1975-2015 but oh right he was part of the administration that ended it at the behest of the oil barons in the first place
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Nov 17, 2021 17:39
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VitalSigns posted:I think it's accurate to say that white people are tricked into believing that racism benefits them, that all the other races are coming to steal what they have, that immigrants are taking their jobs, that black people are taking promotions they deserve, that the guys like Trump and Youngkin who are picking their pockets are actually protecting them from lazy greedy black people etc. The only white people for whom this is not true are the 0.1% at the top who are doing the pickpocketing of the working white people they're tricking with white supremacy. They're just pieces of poo poo and will never be allies of PoC because at the end of the day they owe their wealth and position to white supremacy (this is also why the Democrats who are 0.1%ers themselves or wannabe are not allies incidentally) Yeah, that was pretty much my entire point. Either it's not in their best interests and they're being tricked, bring convinced to believe something that's not true that damages them for the benefit of another, or that the alternative is that it is in their material interests and that's a much harder and weirder battle than what's bring discussed because at that point it's either actually 100% in their interest or they're all just such inhuman monsters that the only solution is going to be ugly. My entire original point anyways wasn't even able white supremacy, just that Republicans are good at tricking people, convincing them to vote for things that will hurt them for the benefit of Republicans. Thanks for having a discussion in D&D.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:39
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Decon posted:Keep He is, just not the problem you're thinking of
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Nov 17, 2021 17:39
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Think the leftist pitch for America needs to be about Getting The Man Off Your Back. The man makes you work before you clock in, or steals your wages and tips. The man makes your doctor call some pencil neck insurance dork to see if he’s allowed to use his expertise to help you. What’s that loving desk working dork got to do with you and your doctor? Get that loving nerd out of here. The man makes you go to endless HR trainings while you know your boss sexually harasses people at every company party (which none of the hourly folks get invited to) and then fires anybody who mentions the boss doing this. gently caress that! Fair is fair, hold the boss to the same standard you hold me. The man sits by his pool in his second house, next to his third wife, while the only thing you got three of is kids to feed and jobs to work. The man then tells you you’re lazy. That you’re the lazy one! The man tells you that you’re going to work until you die, but he retires before he’s even hit 55. Get The Man Off Your Back is typically a right wing, libertarian framing, but it can obviously be put in service to a concept of freedom and dignity that would appeal to a lot of people. But you gotta maybe hurt the feelings of some of those HR and lanyard types.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:40
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Bel Shazar posted:We seem to be fortifying our southern border by bigger links between bases. As someone who lives in between the highways, it almost looks to me like we're writing the I-10 corridor off to seal level rise.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:41
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RBA Starblade posted:He is, just not the problem you're thinking of I'll bite. What's the problem?
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Nov 17, 2021 17:48
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Over 100,000 Americans died from drug overdoses in the last year. - Roughly 2/3s of all deaths (!!!) were just from fentanyl. This is the first time since they started tracking it that a single drug has been responsible for so many overdoses in a year. - It was not spread out geographically. Despite being small portions of the U.S., nearly half of the deaths were in 6 states in Appalachia. - There were 28.5% more overdoses in the last year compared to the prior year. A lot of the increase was likely attributable to the pandemic, but most of it is following a pre-pandemic trend. - Cocaine and amphetamines were responsible for a little over 1/4 of overdose deaths. - Every other type of drug was in the single digits. https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/status/1460986915549847552
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Nov 17, 2021 17:49
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Manchin okay with voting for BBB before the end of the year. manchin says thing, is ok with thing, however is not ok with thing. will go ahead with thing, but has reservations with thing, and does not like thing. feels thing is important but cannot have other thing in thing. gives additional statement stating that timing of thing is wrong for other thing, needs to insist thing not be thing but be other thing or not be thing at all. now thinks thing is bad and is upset thing is being pushed. will go ahead with thing but is hesitant. is offering complaint about thing, as thing simply is not acceptable. will vote for thing, except we need to understand he is definitely not voting for thing. holds press conference saying that he is drawing a line in the sand about thing, will vote for thing, but thing is absolutely not going to have his approval. won't vote for thing. agog at the hubris of party that makes thing, that he is part of, saying cannot support party in thinking thing is acceptable at this juncture. thing is being pushed far too fast, has reservations, will not be bullied on this thing, thing must change. will go ahead with thing. thing is being pushed far too fast, has reservations, will not be bullied on this thing, thing must change. will go ahead with thing. but will have reservations. says thing will be an absolute disaster for this campaign. is getting into a no-win situation. he will get his way in this, he says, so what? that's his prerogative. so now will start with revisiting thing and going back to the negotiating table. will go ahead with thing. but can't make a decision. still will be in for a long debate. does thing not want a debate? will decide on thing after a few months. things will change, so will things. we do not know what is going on. what but other issue is about it not being allowed to say thing to other person. thinks that is unfair treatment, would prefer to not do it, but if the person not allowed it to do so, then I might as well not say it at this. needs to insist thing not be thing but be other thing or not be thing at all. what? or maybe I should put this more simply. in the context of code, manchin is saying that things are not the same. thing should not have been thing because thing was thing and thing/thing was other. I don't think thing? the code is just a way for him to say "this should be the thing" and that is very confusing. when is the last time he really needed to use 'thing?' so needs to clarify. is what thing going to thing vote on thing? votes on idea, which is all that matters, then will move on to vote on wording of text. voted for idea to be something. has to decide if thing can be left out. but will consider if other things should go in there as well. gets in a position to ask for things and has concerns about things, which is a problem. he does want to get things but will not vote with things. wants to make things the default, not change the defaults. seems to be ok to vote. thing will fail at thing vote and he will chide you for having pushed for thing when thing was very bad for america things and not appropriate for the time. but when thing passes will state how pivotal his input was to making thing great, great step forward for all manchin adjacent humans. the system works
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Nov 17, 2021 17:54
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Democrats are so out of touch, rich, and separated from America at large they don't realize calling people Nazi's is a losing strategy. Maybe at Trump's second inaugaration they'll figure it out. When you say Democrats do you mean the politicians? or the Dem voters that are way more poor and POC then the Republican voters?
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Nov 17, 2021 17:54
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selec posted:Think the leftist pitch for America needs to be about Getting The Man Off Your Back. gently caress  . Love this - it's a pretty good encapsulation of why I'm left-wing in the first place, and pretty far from where Democratic messages actually end up. If you polled "which party thinks you should be left the gently caress alone" I imagine they would get destroyed even worse than they do on "who do you trust on the economy". A big part of the problem is "cancel culture" type grievances that actually have nothing to do with DC politics or government in general but end up framing the way people think about them.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:54
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Leftists need to pool their resources into stuff like what Abrams is doing. There is no better way to confirm people that you want to help them than actually helping them, even if is just some of them. They have been telling how bad things are and framing it against the faceless upper class forever. It isn't working. They need to actually do things instead saying they will do things if you just vote for them.
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 17:56
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Decon posted:I'll never stop beating this drum: if you think it'll stop at social issues, let alone just racial ones, you aren't paying attention. They have openly stated that they will expand CRT to include any and all issues they can, and have already done so with "woke" as they did in the past with socialism and communism (these are the same sorts that marched against the Lovings in Loving vs Virginia holding signs that read "race mixing is Communism/socialism"). They will do this with other made up issues. They're already expanding it to include social-emotional learning, as well as mental health programs in general. To the anti-CRT movement, counselors spending their time paying attention to kids' mental health is seen as taking resources away from college prep and using them to brainwash kids with namby-pamby liberal nonsense instead. Anti-suicide programs are seen as "advertising suicide" to kids who never would've thought of suicide, kids who just want to do all their homework and go to church. Social-emotional learning is being treated as a "gateway" to CRT, an attempt to circumvent anti-CRT laws by changing the terminology. And anti-CRT groups are getting quite heated about this stuff, to the bafflement of school administrators. https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2021/09/30/carmel-clay-schools-virtual-board-meetings-disruptive/5937251001/ quote:Carmel Clay Schools board will hold its meetings virtually until further notice, the district announced Thursday, after a meeting Monday marred by “the disruptive behavior of adults.” For a peek into the kinds of reasoning that is driving parents to oppose mental health support for students, just take a look at this page from one conservative parents' group: https://purpleforparentsindiana.com/2021/03/05/trading-academics-for-far-left-social-emotional-learning/ quote:Once upon a time, education meant learning how to read, write, do math, and think. It meant learning history and science as well. It doesn't end there, but most of the rest is dedicated to describing elaborate conspiracy theories in extensive detail, broken up into sections perfectly sized to spread through Facebook parents' groups. Suffice it to say that the article claims social-emotional learning was invented by a "shadowy New Age powerhouse", influenced by occultists and inspired by the Soviet educational system, being pushed by Bill Gates at the behest of the Chinese Communist Party, and derived from the teachings of a Soviet psychologist whose goal was to brainwash children into communism. The bolded section is my own emphasis, because I think it really gets at the heart of the whole issue: modern education teaches children to question and challenge the beliefs they're taught at home, disrupting parents' own attempts to bring their children up with the beliefs they believe everyone should hold. Lastly, I'm going to leave you with this illustration of how this poo poo actually looks and sounds in practice. Not only in terms of how CRT and mental health programs have become linked in the eyes of the conservative opposition, but also in terms of how it's a real headscratcher to think about how the gently caress we're going to reach these people. https://twitter.com/Mike_Hixenbaugh/status/1443743858114932739 The quote in the tweet is bad enough, but I'm just going to transcribe the last thirty seconds or so here, because holy moly: quote:Lastly, have you heard of Hope Squad? It's at grades 5-8. It's a group where fellow students are supposed to report kids who they, as minors, feel are suicidal. It's kinda like "Love Every Dragon". You have a random mom in town soliciting minors based on their sexual orientation. If you have not figured out that that is a red flag, you should. It's a huge red flag.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:57
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selec posted:Think the leftist pitch for America needs to be about Getting The Man Off Your Back. The problem is that The Man is responsible for funding both parties' politicians, so they have no impetus to get rid of The Man.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:58
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Democrats are so out of touch, rich, and separated from America at large they don't realize calling people Nazi's is a losing strategy. Maybe at Trump's second inaugaration they'll figure it out. Yeah, calling the people burning books Nazis is unreasonable and is why the Democrats are going to lose.
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Nov 17, 2021 17:58
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QAnon Shaman was just sentenced to ~4 years in prison, 3 years probation following, and ordered to pay $2,000 in restitution + damages.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:00
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:QAnon Shaman was just sentenced to ~4 years in prison, 3 years probation following, and ordered to pay $2,000 in restitution + damages. That feels within the range of appropriate
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Nov 17, 2021 18:01
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Main Paineframe posted:They're already expanding it to include social-emotional learning, as well as mental health programs in general. To the anti-CRT movement, counselors spending their time paying attention to kids' mental health is seen as taking resources away from college prep and using them to brainwash kids with namby-pamby liberal nonsense instead. Anti-suicide programs are seen as "advertising suicide" to kids who never would've thought of suicide, kids who just want to do all their homework and go to church. Social-emotional learning is being treated as a "gateway" to CRT, an attempt to circumvent anti-CRT laws by changing the terminology. And anti-CRT groups are getting quite heated about this stuff, to the bafflement of school administrators. The linkage between all these different kinds of reactionary thought made me think of a book that I saw somebody post about once in one thread or another, The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer. Written in 2006, but general and applicable enough that nothing about it should seem out of date in 2021 (I read it in 2017-18, I think), and it's available for free if you follow the link.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:QAnon Shaman was just sentenced to ~4 years in prison, 3 years probation following, and ordered to pay $2,000 in restitution + damages. Hope he gets help for his schizophrenia and doesn't fall in with actual neo-nazi criminals in prison. Not crossing my fingers though.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:05
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Willa Rogers posted:The problem is that The Man is responsible for funding both parties' politicians, so they have no impetus to get rid of The Man. To be fair they said "the leftist pitch" and leftist doesn't describe either of the two major political parties. selec posted:Think the leftist pitch for America needs to be about Getting The Man Off Your Back. This is solid messaging though, I love it. I was just thinking the other day that part of making society better would probably mean the absolute destruction of useless middle management that serves no purpose than to give upper middle class white dudes an unearned feeling of self-importance, but I have no idea how we get there without drastically restructuring society with a generous UBI and rock solid benefits. The idea is there, the road map is not, and I'm not sure it can ever be in this country before descending into inescapable fascism and likely balkanization.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:06
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Bel Shazar posted:That feels within the range of appropriate The government was looking for 5 years in prison and 5 years of probation to follow. So, the judge actually cut him a bit of a break.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:10
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selec posted:Think the leftist pitch for America needs to be about Getting The Man Off Your Back. This is great. Like I said, I think there is some common ground between leftists and Trumpers. The stumbling block for both sides is the system itself, which enriches the wealthy ruling class at our expense. Both parties are creatures and beneficiaries of that system, so they're not likely to do much to stop the gravy train.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The government was looking for 5 years in prison and 5 years of probation to follow. So, the judge actually cut him a bit of a break. Looks like they want him to sit out the next presidential election.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:QAnon Shaman was just sentenced to ~4 years in prison, 3 years probation following, and ordered to pay $2,000 in restitution + damages. Oh wow, maybe the calls from people who said, "wait a loving second for trials and convictions to go through, and the heavier stuff takes longer" had a loving point! Main Paineframe posted:They're already expanding it to include social-emotional learning, as well as mental health programs in general. To the anti-CRT movement, counselors spending their time paying attention to kids' mental health is seen as taking resources away from college prep and using them to brainwash kids with namby-pamby liberal nonsense instead. Anti-suicide programs are seen as "advertising suicide" to kids who never would've thought of suicide, kids who just want to do all their homework and go to church. Social-emotional learning is being treated as a "gateway" to CRT, an attempt to circumvent anti-CRT laws by changing the terminology. And anti-CRT groups are getting quite heated about this stuff, to the bafflement of school administrators. So do these folks actually give a poo poo about college prep, or is that the "whatabouthomelessvets" for schools? I ask, because these seem to be the same shitheads that scream about evolution and new math and poo poo like that. VVV I said heavier, not heavy. There are still hundreds of these trials to go, and it's going to continue trending towards more serious punishments over time. Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 18:13
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That's heavy?
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Nov 17, 2021 18:16
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Kraftwerk posted:Or you know, actual nuclear power plants so we can decarbonize the economy. A powerful user name/post combo
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Nov 17, 2021 18:19
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Professor Beetus posted:To be fair they said "the leftist pitch" and leftist doesn't describe either of the two major political parties. Great point. I've always thought it'd be useful to focus on transpartisan ideas rather than bipartisan ideas, and this would be a wonderful example.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:21
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Willa Rogers posted:Great point. That's a great way to put it. "Bipartisanship" has lost all of its luster in my eyes after the past ten years or so. Tired of having to surrender most of the good policy in bills to appease Manchin/Sinema types.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:30
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Main Paineframe posted:https://twitter.com/Mike_Hixenbaugh/status/1443743858114932739 This is the only thing people need to understand with the whole "CRT" controversy. It's another Satanic Panic (which apparently we also have all over again). It's just like calling anything to the Left of Trump "Socialism/Communism". CRT can and will be whatever the people complaining about it want it to be. The only thing that will remain if you even "pretend" to acquiesce to these people is an educations system that only teaches: - 1+1=2 - How to read the bible - How to write your name for signing contracts - All the minority kids are kicked out and arrested for truancy even though they're not allowed in school. There's no winning if you actively engage with it beyond just shutting it down. Sadly however School Boards and local politics are saturated with chuds who will do exactly what they want (See: VA banning books they thing are CRT related, which at this point is mostly anything LGBTQ related and Toni Morrison).
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Nov 17, 2021 18:43
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Now that Herr Hitler has been sentenced to 5 years in Landsberg prison for attempting to overthrow the government of Bavaria we can rest assured that the system works and those who doubted the government's commitment to protecting democratic order have been exposed as jackasses and fools
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Nov 17, 2021 18:46
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Main Paineframe posted:Lastly, I'm going to leave you with this illustration of how this poo poo actually looks and sounds in practice. Not only in terms of how CRT and mental health programs have become linked in the eyes of the conservative opposition, but also in terms of how it's a real headscratcher to think about how the gently caress we're going to reach these people. I'm gonna get real weird with this, and suggest that a possible avenue to...diffuse, deflect, or simply terminate this kind of nonsense is to just...normalize ridicule. Start going to town halls and committee meetings and...heckle the [REDACTED]s like it's a comedy club. Be mean. Be personal. Be ruthless. Be - brace yourselves - uncouth. It's baffling to me that at no point during that 2 minute rambling nonsense, did anyone shout "lady, are you loving [REDACTED]ed?" when I wanted to shout that as soon as she asked "why are we hiring counsellors at $90k a pop-", like, lady, are you loving stupid? Get some friends together, and go to a meeting. Show up individually, and then just...don't respect that the chair has respected a [REDACTED]'s time to speak. One of you gets kicked out, and a few minutes later another one picks up because that's why you didn't arrive as a visibly-identifiable group. Make it so that it's so uncomfortable to express nonsensical, fabricated beliefs about poo poo like CRT that they "learned" at Facebook University in a forum for serious public policymaking.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:52
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