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Trazz posted:That's the idea! You can either agree with the facts or you can be wrong. You'll forgive me if I don't take the person who literally said that they could have shot BLM protesters from the White House with zero consequences seriously. It's not really a statement that anyone could take seriously. I have to say, for a forum based on the idea of having in depth discussions there seems to be a lot of people who are amazingly thin skinned. By all means I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, but I'm not certain why so many posters like yourself immediately resolved to hostility when any questions your perceived world view. So what if I disagree it wasn't a coup. This is a dead little forums on a dead corner or the internet. If I disagree with you, It's not a personal attack, I'm just trying to explore what it is you're saying and what evidence/justifications you have for your point of view. It's moot anyway, I made a good faith effort to engage and was met with a few good responses and a ton of naked hostility and yeah not really worth posting here frankly if i've got to wade through poo poo just to get a few decent responses. That's a shame really, this used to be an amazing part of SA.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:51
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das hipster posted:You'll forgive me if I don't take the person who literally said that they could have shot BLM protesters from the White House with zero consequences seriously. It's not really a statement that anyone could take seriously. It's a true statement, though.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:52
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trazz, chill
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Nov 18, 2021 02:55
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das hipster posted:You'll forgive me if I don't take the person who literally said that they could have shot BLM protesters from the White House with zero consequences seriously. It's not really a statement that anyone could take seriously. You've been given definitive proof on a pretty simple topic which you've ignored and then follow it with this sanctimonious garbage idiot nonsense. Why should anyone take you seriously or believe you are engaging in good faith?
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Nov 18, 2021 02:57
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Decon posted:Also, for the "Dems do nothing crowd", man just got picked up by the feds. I can already feel my life getting better
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Nov 18, 2021 02:58
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Space Camp fuckup posted:I can already feel my life getting better I mean it was in response to someone saying that Dems aren't doing anything about 1/6. I think Dems are loving up policy-wise.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:03
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There were no consequences when Trump literally ordered a police assassination on a guy who shot and killed a Proud Boy in self defense What consequences would there have been if Trump had hypothetically ordered the National Guard to mow down protesters at the White House exactly? More protests? He'd just gun those down too.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:04
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das hipster posted:You'll forgive me if I don't take the person who literally said that they could have shot BLM protesters from the White House with zero consequences seriously. It's not really a statement that anyone could take seriously. I've enjoyed your posts itt & encourage you to post more, not less! I think there've been times when the allowable discourse here was a fairly narrow band, and that in turn causes a degree of distress to those who were happy with those conditions now that it's evolved to encompass a broader spectrum of views & beliefs. The mods & admins have done a good job of listening to our feedback, and building a better forum upon it. Please reconsider staying; I promise you we'll have your back.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:07
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Cranappleberry posted:The democrats could have started the 1/6 investigation ASAP, focusing on the leadership/organizers and politicians involved, waiting only to go after trump admin officials after Biden took power so there would be no legal issues with enforcing subpoenas.  How much time did they waste on that, again? Willa Rogers posted:I've enjoyed your posts itt & encourage you to post more, not less!
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Nov 18, 2021 03:07
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Scipiotik posted:Hell the fbi probably radicalized s lot of these people. Why would they do that? The FBI suppresses and infiltrates the left pretty much exclusively, by which I mean any group calling for economic or social justice. Their publicly available files on mainline Quaker organizations run to the thousands of pages and those people are avowed pacifists.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:17
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Dr. Drool posted:Why would they do that? The FBI suppresses and infiltrates the left pretty much exclusively, by which I mean any group calling for economic or social justice. Their publicly available files on mainline Quaker organizations run to the thousands of pages and those people are avowed pacifists. They actively arm, train and radicalise right wing terrorists.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:23
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Dr. Drool posted:Why would they do that? The FBI suppresses and infiltrates the left pretty much exclusively, by which I mean any group calling for economic or social justice. Their publicly available files on mainline Quaker organizations run to the thousands of pages and those people are avowed pacifists. Ask all the lonely Muslim teens they entrapped.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:26
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das hipster posted:You'll forgive me if I don't take the person who literally said that they could have shot BLM protesters from the White House with zero consequences seriously. It's not really a statement that anyone could take seriously. Despite all our cheap shots dunking on your positions, there's also a lot of good faith engagement with them which you seem to be glossing over almost entirely. Fuckin' sea lions man.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:26
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das hipster posted:You'll forgive me if I don't take the person who literally said that they could have shot BLM protesters from the White House with zero consequences seriously. It's not really a statement that anyone could take seriously. "no one can take this person seriously!!" you say, while following them and quoting them screaming at them to provide evidence of their opinion. why? what evidence could they provide? they basically said "in an alternate universe things are different" and you've been barking for three hours for proof of this. meanwhile literally everyone else saw the opinion, silently agreed or disagreed with this opinion. the moved on. and here you are. demanding proof that this alternate universe's events are fact. while screaming "no one can take you seriously!!!" the entire time.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:32
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Pobrecito posted:Ask all the lonely Muslim teens they entrapped. Are they white males? Ask cliven bundy how the feds treated him. Kid gloves.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:35
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Ghost Leviathan posted:They actively arm, train and radicalise right wing terrorists. Since when? Right wing political violence has never stopped my whole life, there's no need to radicalize those groups.
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Nov 18, 2021 03:46
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Flopsy posted:I'm beginning to find I regret it every time I poke my head in here looking for news. For real. It's crazy seeing certain changes over time, and how the public and media discourse normalizes everything and seeps into here. There are too many things over the years that everyone agreed we serious issues that slowly drift to "no biggie" or "actually, bad things are good."
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Nov 18, 2021 04:12
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AmiYumi posted:Willa, you keep giving away the game by posting like this. It’s embarrassing. What game? What's embarrassing you? I've posted here for 16 years, and I'm glad to see dnd returning to its roots of actual genuine debate & discussion, especially since other online political spaces have carved out far more restrictive channels of acceptable discourse, as has happened here during earlier times & under different moderators. Broader allowable discourse is a good thing, not a bad thing, as are challenges to one's beliefs outside of echo chambers & circle jerks. It's not "trolling" or "bad faith"; it's sharpening the discourse instead of dulling it. If one's beliefs are firm, and one trusts them, one should welcome challenges to those beliefs to help solidify them, rather than dismissing them out of hand by trying to label them as insincere.
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Nov 18, 2021 04:23
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Willa Rogers posted:The mods & admins have done a good job of listening to our feedback, and building a better forum upon it. They’re even going to comment in the feedback thread from last month and re-open it. These are the promises of people committed to change.
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Nov 18, 2021 04:30
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1/6 should've been the excuse to destroy the Republican party, jail or execute its leaders, seize its funding and crush its loyalists.
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Nov 18, 2021 04:46
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Byzantine posted:1/6 should've been the excuse to destroy the Republican party, jail or execute its leaders, seize its funding and crush its loyalists. I agree that I don't like how slow and un-thoroughly the process seems to be going, but you make it sound like a pirate raid or something. How would you envision what you want happening?
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Nov 18, 2021 04:51
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das hipster posted:Not singling you out, but I will point out that the FBI disagrees with your assesment, for what it's worth. They had t-shirts printed up for it.
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Nov 18, 2021 05:02
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TheDisreputableDog posted:They’re even going to comment in the feedback thread from last month and re-open it. These are the promises of people committed to change. VideoGameVet posted:They had t-shirts printed up for it.  also, from their own link: quote:FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said. it's chafe. you can dispute any number of single facets of the story but that doesn't dispute the whole just because my head bounced off that tree doesn't mean i wasn't trying to make a rope swing InsertPotPun fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 05:15
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How are u posted:I agree that I don't like how slow and un-thoroughly the process seems to be going, but you make it sound like a pirate raid or something. How would you envision what you want happening? Viking longships with enough space room for captives and loot. Sail right up the Chesapeake to GOP headquarters
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Nov 18, 2021 05:20
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Gumball Gumption posted:Why the gently caress is this argument "It was a coup" vs "It's not a coup". Either way you should all be horrified of the outcome. If it's not a coup than it's a total waste of time to put on a show while ignoring the real leaders and problems on the right. And if it is a coup, if you see parallels with the beer hall putsch, than you should be even more outraged. This was a waste of time to slap foot soldiers on the wrist and lock them up in an environment that will only radicalize them further and make them more ready to commit violence for their leaders. If you think it's the beer hall putsch you should be terrified because you're still living in that timeline. Go be mad about that together instead of "nu uh it so was a coup". This. There is this idea that the events on 1/6 didn't follow a 'coup' because of how it went: no military force, no massive show of power or purging of the other party, and so on. But it also ignores that people inside and outside our government saught to use people to upset the transfer of power and issue emergency orders to stay in power. The distinction between if the mass knew what was going on or if they were just a mob being herded into action is a fairly minor one in the face of the orchestrators literally forcing congress to shelter in place, the Capitol Police to take casualties, and the chambers being ransacked in order to stop the certification. We have evidence of this from the conspirators themselves, explicitly stating what they were attempting, before and after the events. If the Business Plot got this far it would have been a coup, no matter if they succeded or not. Sanguinia posted:Lol, we've gone from "All Republicans aren't nazis, stop being so absurd," to "CRT Conspiracy theories have some legitimate concerns and the people against it are just IDpol Culture Warriors," to "The left should integrate Anti-CRT talking points instead of opposing the people voting to burn books for having LGBTQ characters," to "January 6 was just a few scamps embarrassing the stupid dumb-o-crats," in less than three weeks on this forum. What the gently caress happened? I'd also like to know. There is spirited debate and reasonable conversation, and then there is just henpecking and what-aboutism leading to...*gestures vaguely at everything*
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Nov 18, 2021 05:27
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I think the main issue with “it was a coup! Take this seriously” is that the Democratic Party isn’t. If the party that was voted in/in control, and the coup was supposedly planning to oust, then all the powerful figures that supported it should be squashed and rotting in a cellar. The fact that decorum won and Trump + members of congress are allowed to walk freely means those in power (Dems) don’t actually think there was a coup. Accept that reality or piss in the wind I guess. vvvv I think you and other liberals are conflating the left saying “the Dems are functionally treating these events as nothing more than fundraiser bullet points instead of anything serious” as “the left thinks this is all a joke” If this poo poo isn’t a joke then loving arrest Trump, members of congress, and anyone who funded the operation. Otherwise it looks like it’s a big joke. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 05:32
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I forget, when the Whitmer kidnapping plot came out were there also people coming from the left with "lol they were just playing a little prank babies, didn't your dorm buddies ever move your bed up on the roof without waking you up or something?"
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Nov 18, 2021 05:34
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I think the main issue with “it was a coup! Take this seriously” is that the Democratic Party isn’t. Why is the Democratic Party the arbiter of what is or isn't serious?
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Nov 18, 2021 05:47
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I think the main issue with “it was a coup! Take this seriously” is that the Democratic Party isn’t. I agree with you there. We should be taking this poo poo more seriously. Putting Bannon in a cell is a good start but it should have started back in February/March, it should have led to the immediate censure of the representatives involved and it should have led to a subpoena on the former President. At the bare minimum. The Investigative Committee should have been formed as Biden's first act and it should have been given teeth from the outset. This isn't from a partisan angle, but from the idea that our democracy should be defended no matter what party they identify with. (There's a lot more to that like voting rights, eliminating gerrymandering and so on, but those are topics of their own.) But in these past few pages we have had people argue that, no, none of these things should have happened at all because it wasn't a coup attempt, and the people storming the capitol had legitimate grievances that totally wouldn't have ended up hurting anyone at all. Or that the action wasn't political in nature and therefor wasn't a coup by definition. That isn't what the evidence shows, either from the actions of the mob or from the machinations of the organizers. That's what people are getting mad about.
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Nov 18, 2021 05:50
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DarkCrawler posted:Why is the Democratic Party the arbiter of what is or isn't serious? They are the ones in power and the “coup” was to remove them. They control the house, senate, and presidency. If they’re power was threatens by a “coup” then they should prolly loving do something about it. Why hasn’t the house called trump in for questioning and then arrest him if he fails to comply. I mean the Republicans did that with Hillary over Benghazi. Surely if the coup was serious then the Dems would be able to easily do the same for Trump. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 05:51
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Killer robot posted:I forget, when the Whitmer kidnapping plot came out were there also people coming from the left with "lol they were just playing a little prank babies, didn't your dorm buddies ever move your bed up on the roof without waking you up or something?" Uhh have you read up on any of the details of that case
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Nov 18, 2021 05:52
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I think the main issue with “it was a coup! Take this seriously” is that the Democratic Party isn’t. I will always think of this as 2021.jpg 
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Nov 18, 2021 05:55
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:They are the ones in power. They control the house, senate, and presidency. Wait if we are saving democracy why are we giving the coup plotters veto power over the investigation into the coup plot well Look over there! *drops smoke bomb, runs out of the rotunda*
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Nov 18, 2021 05:59
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:They are the ones in power and the “coup” was to remove them. They control the house, senate, and presidency. If they’re power was threatens by a “coup” then they should prolly loving do something about it. This presumes that the Democratic Party's main interest is in gaining or maintaining power as a whole, which I honestly am starting to doubt (be it liberals or the left). Also, literally everyone in America who isn't a Republican is plagued by stage 4 terminal decorum cancer so...with that taken on account they are pretty aggressive I guess.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:15
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J.A.B.C. posted:This. I can't find the article after a bunch of searching or I'd post a link it, but a Turkish woman wrote in The Atlantic or New Yorker or something about how this is exactly what coups are - they are stupid until all of a sudden one of them works and then that's it. This was a coup attempt full stop. The most ransacked office was the Parliamentarian's where they were keeping the electoral ballots in big wooden boxes. Someone had the foresight to grab them before they fled. A subset of the insurrectionists were trying to find and steal the physical ballots themselves, allowing Trump to sue to drag it out long enough to either send it to State legislatures or sew enough doubt to make not vacating the White House on January 21st physically possible. It was literally a coup attempt, and it was planned and coordinated. Just because they failed doesn't make it not one.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:17
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pthighs posted:
So why aren’t the Dems treating it as such?
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Nov 18, 2021 06:25
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:They are the ones in power and the “coup” was to remove them. They control the house, senate, and presidency. If they’re power was threatens by a “coup” then they should prolly loving do something about it. If there was any serious abuse going on surely the wife would've pressed charges!
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Nov 18, 2021 06:27
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:So why aren’t the Dems treating it as such? Because most of the Dems are functionally incompetent at anything that might conflict with .
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Nov 18, 2021 06:27
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:If there was any serious abuse going on surely the wife would've pressed charges! The power dynamics involved in the Jan 6 episode are not at all comparable to the power dynamics between a domestic abuser and their victim. Please don't make comparisons like this.
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Nov 18, 2021 06:32
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I think the main issue with “it was a coup! Take this seriously” is that the Democratic Party isn’t. DarkCrawler posted:Why is the Democratic Party the arbiter of what is or isn't serious? virtualboyCOLOR posted:So why aren’t the Dems treating it as such?
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Nov 18, 2021 06:34
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