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Sanguinia posted:I'm not sure how this would be a "karen moment," unless you're implying I would go off on a kid for saying they'd never vote for a Democrat, in which case you can gently caress off. Half of them already tell me that because their fashy parents brainwash them into thinking Democrats are evil. Part of my job is showing them the flaws in their pre-conceptions so they're open to new ideas, which I do my best to do without crossing the line into telling them what to think because I'm a professional and I care about doing my job well. How about you keep your cute little jokes about me to yourself next time? It wasn't a cute little joke about you; it was a cute little joke about the utility of convincing kids that the political floor they're walking on is actually the ceiling. I understand that, as a Democratic voter & party supporter, it can't be easy for you to teach children of conservatives. I feel the same way as a leftist posting in D&D, so I do empathize. DarkCrawler posted:It's not fine for either lol it is suicidal for both but at least one of them has like boats and poo poo Tell it to the Dems who wanted me to vote for Biden after having rightwing war criminals speak on his behalf at the convention to nominate him.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:37
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Willa Rogers posted:It wasn't a cute little joke about you; it was a cute little joke about the utility of convincing kids that the political floor they're walking on is actually the ceiling. I don't know if it was your intention, but this reply comes off smarmy and snide as poo poo, which makes the first bit ring falae.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:40
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Willa posts here out of self-loathing, obviously.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:42
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ah, so the same reason i still read the thread
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Nov 20, 2021 22:43
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Whom amongst us...?
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Nov 20, 2021 22:44
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Fister Roboto posted:Whom amongst us...? All of us is the answer.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:45
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Willa Rogers posted:Tell it to the Dems who wanted me to vote for Biden after having rightwing war criminals speak on his behalf at the convention to nominate him. I mean I would but I don't think they post here  I think I have been pretty unequivocal on how useless the Democratic Party is currently for leftists. Doesn't mean that the leftists have to be equally useless. Voting for Biden was the best action available at the end of the day after Bernie had tried to persuade GOP voters with socialism and Biden went with hate "gently caress Trump" and fear "Trump will loving kill you" and won. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Nov 20, 2021 |
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Nov 20, 2021 22:47
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DarkCrawler posted:When I think about dual power structures, I am reminded of the ones in failing or failed states, fulfilling areas of the society that the state can't or won't. I'm an anarcho-communist (a relatively new one who is still learning) so I agree with you about power and money: both of them corrupt absolutely. I think we're getting past - if not already past - the point where we have any hope of achieving our goals without being bastards. You don't win revolutions with decorum and clinging to the rule book (something most Democrats seem to utterly fail to grasp). That said, I don't know that you have to necessarily have violence and be bastards to implement dual power structures. It could be as simple as opening up a food bank in your area that feeds people where means-tested bullshit on the state or national level fail, for example. At least that's how I have come to understand it. e: Edited out a phrase by Sedisp's request. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Nov 20, 2021 |
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Nov 20, 2021 22:47
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CommieGIR posted:Willa posts here out of self-loathing, obviously. Nah; that'd be like saying Sanguinia teaches conservatives' kids out of self-loathing, when I'm sure that's not the case.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:51
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Sanguinia posted:I'm not sure how this would be a "karen moment," unless you're implying I would go off on a kid for saying they'd never vote for a Democrat, in which case you can gently caress off. Half of them already tell me that because their fashy parents brainwash them into thinking Democrats are evil. Part of my job is showing them the flaws in their pre-conceptions so they're open to new ideas, which I do my best to do without crossing the line into telling them what to think because I'm a professional and I care about doing my job well. How about you keep your cute little jokes about me to yourself next time? The joke is the karen is going off on you dork. F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I'm an anarcho-communist (a relatively new one who is still learning some of the ropes) so I agree with you about power and money: both of them corrupt absolutely. If there is one thing I could request of my anarchist comrades it's that they stop using a phrase coined by a slaver.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:53
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VitalSigns posted:I keep a couple of dumbass Republicans on my social media (who aren't totally awful) just so I see what talking points are making their way around the conservative internet, and the only one who has posted about the BBB hasn't said that it's full of communism or talked about any of the social spending that's in it, he's only complaining that the SALT cap is going to give tax breaks to the rich. If Republicans do that and it works its going to be a real mark of hopelessness for the future because Republicans gave the richest people in the world the biggest tax cut in American history four years ago and then bragged about how the extra 14 cents per paycheck they gave back to ordinary people would let them buy a whole extra cup of coffee. If giving home owning white collar families a tax break is seen as WORSE than giving it to dipshits like Elon while that cut is ALSO paired with large benefits for you, then just gently caress everything. Willa Rogers posted:It wasn't a cute little joke about you; it was a cute little joke about the utility of convincing kids that the political floor they're walking on is actually the ceiling. For the record, I also work my rear end off to not do THAT either. I make it a point to include talk about direct action and revolutionary history in my classroom. The nature of sovereignty, why people create governments, but also why people sometimes give up on those governments and opt to replace them by force, even in democracies. Helping my kids understand the connections between the American Revolution's ideals and events like women blowing up buildings in London to get suffrage or LGBTQ people throwing bricks at Stonewall inn is important to me. Helping them understand the difference between things like the French, Haitian and Russian revolutions and Hitler and Mussolini's takeovers, just like there's a difference between a BLM protest burning down an empty police station and Fascists trying to burn down the US Capitol to install a dictator, is also important to me. This year I'm even planning to have a lesson about the Black Panthers since I found some really cool new resources on the topic, to help further broaden the Civil Rights part of the history unit beyond just MLK and Malcolm X.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:53
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Willa Rogers posted:Nah; that'd be like saying Sanguinia teaches conservatives' kids out of self-loathing, when I'm sure that's not the case. I was just joking anyways.
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Nov 20, 2021 22:55
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Do you have kids, Willa?
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Nov 20, 2021 22:58
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readingatwork posted:I’m not mad, I’m just fascinated because I thought the last of the conservatives fled DnD back in the Obama years. *Coughs politely, folds arms*
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Nov 20, 2021 23:34
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Sanguinia posted:If Republicans do that and it works its going to be a real mark of hopelessness for the future because Republicans gave the richest people in the world the biggest tax cut in American history four years ago and then bragged about how the extra 14 cents per paycheck they gave back to ordinary people would let them buy a whole extra cup of coffee. If giving home owning white collar families a tax break is seen as WORSE than giving it to dipshits like Elon while that cut is ALSO paired with large benefits for you, then just gently caress everything. Well Trump/Ryan's Tax Cuts And Jobs Act was wildly unpopular with just 40% approval overall and only 32% of independents approving of it, and Republicans got hammered in the midterm elections which were about D+10. A lot of people weren't too thrilled about getting like $50 while the 1% ran away with all the money. Also the tax cuts for the rich and corporations were made permanent and to pay for it taxes will actually go up on everyone else in just 6 more years (a lingering time bomb that Democrats didn't bother to defuse I might add, because they don't want to increase the deficit and they don't want to reverse Trump's tax cuts for the rich, so we're all just gonna get hosed by that I guess). I think the problem with this electoral analysis that a lot of people do (and maybe that the Democratic establishment does, although I've started to doubt that they're doing bad analysis, and it's more that they just don't care if they win), is starting with the assumption that voting is a binary act: either you vote for a Republican or you vote for a Democrat. If you're mad that Republicans gave the rich a $2T tax cut, then logically you have to vote for a Democrat even if they give the rich a $500B tax cut, because where else are you gonna go. But in reality people can just get demoralized. They can conclude that both parties are tools of the rich and just stay home, or get radicalized by culture war bullshit, or just say gently caress it and vote for a real estate mogul with no experience because at least he's not another politician and he says he knows how the rich get ahead and he's going to use that power to fight for YOU. I think this "well where else are they gonna go" mentality is very dangerous.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:05
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VitalSigns posted:Well Trump/Ryan's Tax Cuts And Jobs Act was wildly unpopular with just 40% approval overall and only 32% of independents approving of it, and Republicans got hammered in the midterm elections which were about D+10. A lot of people weren't too thrilled about getting like $50 while the 1% ran away with all the money. Also the tax cuts for the rich and corporations were made permanent and to pay for it taxes will actually go up on everyone else in just 6 more years (a lingering time bomb that Democrats didn't bother to defuse I might add, because they don't want to increase the deficit and they don't want to reverse Trump's tax cuts for the rich, so we're all just gonna get hosed by that I guess). Absolutely, it's already proven itself to be dangerous because it leads to a whole lot of lazy entitled "You owe us your vote, you stupid loving peasants" mentality and the expectation that we should be thanking them for the opportunity to settle for less instead of demanding what we need.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:10
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Sedisp posted:The joke is the karen is going off on you dork. what phrase are you referring to?
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Nov 21, 2021 00:27
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CommieGIR posted:All of us is the answer. Your profile pic is a monster killing Christmas. So much for the tolerant left
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Nov 21, 2021 00:32
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VitalSigns posted:
It's a big country, so I'm sure that there are some people who both pay enough attention to the intricacies of legislation to know about things like the SALT repeal and are also only marginally invested enough in politics that they might not vote. But that's not a big Venn diagram overlap. It just isn't. The people who don't vote aren't by and large the people following things that closely. There just isn't a lot of evidence that there is some army of secret socialist voters out there waiting for the the leftmost possible candidate to run to mobilize them, rather than feckless liberals. In fact, all the available evidence shows that overall they'd likely vote pretty similarly to those demographically similiar to them that do vote. And considering that non-voters are more likely to be non-white than voters, sure, more democrats might get elected if they did show up. But the demographic profile of a non-voter looks a lot more similar to that of a Biden primary voter than a Bernie one. I think there's a leftist version of the just world fallacy where we like to assume that the difficulties of flawed liberal institutions are due to those flaws rather than other things. What gas costs at the pump and whether or not whatever bullshit smear Fox is pushing that cycle gain traction probably have a lot more to do with the democrat's chances in the midterms than whether or not they passed a bold and transformative package of legislation.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:39
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The SALT cap isn't intricate. They're giving rich people vastly more money than they gave poor people. It's incredibly easy to understand in fact
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Nov 21, 2021 00:46
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Herstory Begins Now posted:what phrase are you referring to? "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" from Lord Acton, something I had to Google to figure out. Reeeallly reaching to find something to get upset about.
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Nov 21, 2021 00:51
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Sanguinia posted:If Republicans do that and it works its going to be a real mark of hopelessness for the future because Republicans gave the richest people in the world the biggest tax cut in American history four years ago and then bragged about how the extra 14 cents per paycheck they gave back to ordinary people would let them buy a whole extra cup of coffee. If giving home owning white collar families a tax break is seen as WORSE than giving it to dipshits like Elon while that cut is ALSO paired with large benefits for you, then just gently caress everything. I think you need to educate yourself, and then the children you teach, about the "home owning white collar families" getting the SALT tax break, because they're overwhelmingly one-percenters, not the martyrs you're making them out to be: quote:Lifting the cap on the SALT deduction would massively favor the rich, with most of the benefit going to the top one percent https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/09/04/the-salt-tax-deduction-is-a-handout-to-the-rich-it-should-be-eliminated-not-expanded/ There are plenty of other sources if you don't trust the Brookings chop shop, but in any case I think your hyperbolic rhetoric has proven the downside of tribalism, inasmuch as facts don't matter as much as your feels do. You can't wrap your head around the fact that your team might do something as equally heinous--if not more heinous, in the case of tax cuts--as the other team. eta: TheIncredulousHulk posted:The SALT cap isn't intricate. They're giving rich people vastly more money than they gave poor people. It's incredibly easy to understand in fact We're already seeing how easy it is to understand in the ads that the GOP & affiliates are running against Dems who support the restoration of the cut. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 00:52
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Herstory Begins Now posted:dude the cops drove up, didn't announce themselves, and shot him to death. total time from initiating contact to him getting shot was zero seconds. he was dead a couple seconds later. That poster stated Reineohl was executed in his own driveway. He was not, he had run away from where he lived and was hiding hours away. I wasn't saying that the term executed was the lie. I didn't explicitly state what part was a lie because I thought it was obvious enough. Apparently not 
Kalit fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 00:53
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What does it matter whether he was executed in his own driveway or his friends driveway or 50 feet from the driveway of the house he was staying in? and lol dude you were arguing about how he started shooting first so it wasn't an executions... so yknow it kinda looked like you were disputing the execution part, yknow?
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Nov 21, 2021 00:59
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Kalit posted:That poster stated Reineohl was executed in his own driveway. He was not, he had run away from where he lived and was hiding hours away. I wasn't saying that the term executed was the lie. I didn't explicitly state what part was a lie because I thought it was obvious enough. Apparently not Is this seriously what you're splitting hairs over? Please, for your own sake, just stop.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:00
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Willa Rogers posted:I think you need to educate yourself, and then the children you teach, about the "home owning white collar families" getting the SALT tax break, because they're overwhelmingly one-percenters, not the martyrs you're making them out to be: Cutting Taxes in way which favors the rich by an overall relatively small amount as part of a political compromise to enable tons of new social safety net spending: more heinous than cutting taxes in a way which favors the rich by an order of magnitude higher overall amount and pairing it with nothing that helps anyone. Careful, sounds like some HYPERBOLIC RHETORIC you're spewing there in between taking ad hominin potshots at me being an ignorant tribalist and a bad teacher who needs to educate myself more.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:05
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Nameless Pete posted:"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" from Lord Acton, something I had to Google to figure out. Reeeallly reaching to find something to get upset about. It's not really being upset it's just a terrible way to view power unless you are so decorum poisoned that you think Abraham Lincoln was a dangerous radical and tyrant. Power doesn't corrupt it tests. Kalit posted:That poster stated Reineohl was executed in his own driveway. He was not, he had run away from where he lived and was hiding hours away. I wasn't saying that the term executed was the lie. I didn't explicitly state what part was a lie because I thought it was obvious enough. Apparently not He was hiding cause he was afraid police were going to murder him. A fairly justified fear all things considered. Also kind of takes a huge dump on your "he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory" nonsense. Sedisp fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 01:09
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Sanguinia posted:Cutting Taxes in way which favors the rich by an overall relatively small amount as part of a political compromise to enable tons of new social safety net spending: more heinous than cutting taxes in a way which favors the rich by an order of magnitude higher overall amount and pairing it with nothing that helps anyone. The bad tax cut bill doubled the child tax credit so claiming that it was paired with nothing that helps anyone is a complete lie
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Nov 21, 2021 01:15
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Sedisp posted:Power doesn't corrupt it tests. I always liked the "If you give a guy the power to do what he always wanted to do, you'll find out what he always wanted to do." from The Power Broker. Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:16
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Sanguinia posted:Cutting Taxes in way which favors the rich by an overall relatively small amount as part of a political compromise to enable tons of new social safety net spending: more heinous than cutting taxes in a way which favors the rich by an order of magnitude higher overall amount and pairing it with nothing that helps anyone. That’s not a relatively small amount.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:18
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I agree that restoring the SALT deduction is bad - both from a policy and optics standpoint. But if swallowing that particular turd is what it takes to get a massive and historic investment for the nation's early learning infrastructure.....then I guess I'm just fine with taking it. Like, it's really not hyperbole that the EC portion of the reconcilliation package alone will dramatically improve the lives of millions of children - we know (with a capital K, from decades of research) that quality early childhood learning pays massive dividends for kids, along a host of academic/social-emotional outcomes. Maybe that makes me insufficiently pure in my leftist credentials but I've spent my entire adult life caring for and teaching kids and I honestly just don't give a gently caress. I would give pretty much anything for that funding to pass.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:20
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VanillaGorilla posted:I agree that restoring the SALT deduction is bad - both from a policy and optics standpoint.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:29
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Not to mention that it isn't even the Manchins or Sinemas insisting on the SALT deduction restoration; it's the "good ones" like Pelosi & Schumer, the actual loving leadership of the party. Pelosi's been gunning for this since before Biden's election. Imagine her & Schumer advocating for M4A the way they're pimping this tax cut for richies.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:31
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It's good that good things are happening. But as somebody said earlier, we've been not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good for so long, kicking that can down the line. Incrementalism will not save us. If it's our only option, we must be more creative and forceful because we have a deadline. It's our job because we're alive on this planet.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:37
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Willa Rogers posted:Not to mention that it isn't even the Manchins or Sinemas insisting on the SALT deduction restoration; it's the "good ones" like Pelosi & Schumer, the actual loving leadership of the party. What? No it very publicly was Menendez from NJ and the New York and New Jersey Congressional delegations. I'm sure Pelosi is happy to have it back, but it was never part of the original proposal.
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Nov 21, 2021 01:56
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Pook Good Mook posted:What? No it very publicly was Menendez from NJ and the New York and New Jersey Congressional delegations. Here's a short article prior to the bill quoting how hopeful she is to get SALT added in. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/01/pelosi-salt-relief-478874
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Nov 21, 2021 02:05
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Sedisp posted:The joke is the karen is going off on you dork. It’s only a cliche that communicates a popular and enduring line of thought (there are plenty of parts in the Bible that say roughly the same thing). It doesn’t lend credibility or offer support to slavers. Practically nobody knows its origin. It’s not going to hurt you, it’s not going to sully you, and it’s not going to discredit your movement any more than wearing a brown T-shirt will. When you do this it looks like one-upsmanship for not knowing the obscure origin of a phrase that can be decoupled entirely from its author. It would make no difference had A. A. Lewis uttered it instead of Lord Acton.
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Nov 21, 2021 02:08
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Pook Good Mook posted:What? No it very publicly was Menendez from NJ and the New York and New Jersey Congressional delegations. The SALT deduction restoration has been a part of the rec bill since at least June, but as I said Pelosi's been gunning for it since Trump was president. eta: Here's a citation from April. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 02:12
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VanillaGorilla posted:But if swallowing that particular turd is what it takes to get a massive and historic investment for the nation's early learning infrastructure.....then I guess I'm just fine with taking it. Like, it's really not hyperbole that the EC portion of the reconcilliation package alone will dramatically improve the lives of millions of children - we know (with a capital K, from decades of research) that quality early childhood learning pays massive dividends for kids, along a host of academic/social-emotional outcomes. Too bad the planet will be dead before those kids can run for president. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 21, 2021 02:16
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The SALT deduction should not be restored, but there needs to be some sort of luxury tax associated with a house to ALSO tax rich people in states which have much cheaper housing. For comparison: Some random houses I just grabbed off of Zillow listings: Bay area starter home in a relatively average city when it comes to wealth for the area, many of the cities around it are more expensive: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/145-Orchard-Ave-Redwood-City-CA-94061/15576684_zpid/ Some house in Tennessee (never been to the state, no idea if this city is nice or whatever): https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/136-Signal-Point-Rd-Signal-Mountain-TN-37377/41396252_zpid/ In high cost of living areas there might not be anything cheaper for many miles, so it is either financially stretching and being functionally poor with an extremely basic house where 80% of your income goes into it, never owning, or commuting 2-3 hours each way from 90 miles away. For the Tennessee example they are choosing to have a house that luxurious, and they could have easily bought a house nearby that would allow a family to live extremely comfortably for half the price. There needs to be some tax based on house size/features/land area/having a god drat tennis court like a scene in a movie trying to show how rich someone is, because in my mind the owner of that second house is living a substantially better life than the owner of the first house and has much more discretionary money that could go toward taxes. Pain of Mind fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 02:28
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You are receiving this broadcast as a dream...We are transmitting from the year one nine... nine nine ...You are receiving this broadcast in order t