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I was (mostly) kidding about how insane Florida's laws are and I'm well aware that car nuts aren't defending running over Christmas parades even though it is the logical conclusion of their beliefs that it's their moral right to destroy anything in the road which mildly inconveniences them.
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Nov 22, 2021 17:45
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Ershalim posted:You cannot ever shame someone into being a better person. This is just not true. I'm not going to make any claims about how successful it is overall as a tactic, but I know it's not correct because I myself have been shamed into reevaluating my beliefs. When I was going through my deconversion from rightwing Christianity, someone on this very forum called me out for espousing fundamentalist beliefs when I articulated my views on religion. I was floored, and defensively insisted it wasn't true. But then I took a look at what was actually being said and I realized the person I was talking to was completely correct. It was probably the watershed moment in my rejection of both Christianity and rightwing / centrist politics. It should be noted that the poster who I was talking with was civil but direct. If they had been overly cruel, flippant, or dismissive it might have gone differently. But the poster did not shy away from calling me a fundamentalist, because it was the truth. They didn't try to massage my ego or qualify anything. The direct honesty is what shocked me into actually thinking critically about what was being said.
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Nov 22, 2021 17:51
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Fame Douglas posted:lmao @ Biden reappointing a Republican and Trump appointee. You'd think someone as long in politics at him would know about rewarding loyal party members. The markets are v. happy with Biden's decision, and that's what counts at the end of the (trading) day. 
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Nov 22, 2021 17:54
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Even Biden thinks Republicans are good at the economy and Democrats are not apparently. What a decision.
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Nov 22, 2021 17:57
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Is this nomination filibusterable?
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Nov 22, 2021 17:58
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Zeron posted:Even Biden thinks Republicans are good at the economy and Democrats are not apparently. What a decision. "Nothing will fundamentally change." The elites are nothing if not loyal. Not to us, but still!
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Nov 22, 2021 17:58
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I'm not familiar with Powell, but from a quick search it looks like he's a career Treasury worker who was first appointed as a Fed governor by Obama, and has been praised for the Fed's actions in response to Covid. Could someone more knowledgeable than I explain what actions he's taken that mean he shouldn't be re-nominated?
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Nov 22, 2021 18:10
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Listen I'm all for people making whatever decisions they need to in the pursuit of their own mental health. You are under no obligation to keep anybody in your life - not mom, not dad, not adult children - if they are bad for you and your life. And frankly if you know how granpa voted at all I have a strong suspicion you aren't cutting him out of his life just because of his vote - he's telling you other stuff along with that which is probably far more toxic. But framing the discourse as - "I cut X out of my life because they are a Nazi/white supremacist" means a very specific thing and while I don't care really what a person does with their life or how they choose to narrate their story, one should be careful how you're arriving at this conclusion. "X votes Republican, so they are a white supremacist and I have cut them out of my life" drains your perspective of all nuance. "X won't shut up about how Y <slur> won't mind their place" is a bit more alarming and probably better grounds for more aggressive action. Essentializing and demonizing are not helpful perspectives when dealing with individual, non-politically important people in your life unless that person does in fact psychologicaly wound you, in which case get the hell out of there. "My mom votes Republican" could be a statement of fact, if you find yourself going down a long string of "therefore, and therefore, and therefore" you're putting more thought into it than they did and it's not a reason, on its own, to throw somebody to the wolves. All I'm saying is you find yourself arriving at the conclusion, "and therefore, they are an awful person" politically be careful to figure out where the logical leap is happening. I cut my mom out of my life because she's a jerk, I don't need to any other reason, but her political discourse was pretty far down the list.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:15
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The New York State Assembly's report on Andrew Cuomo's misdeeds just dropped. TLDR: 
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Nov 22, 2021 18:16
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Mendrian posted:All I'm saying is you find yourself arriving at the conclusion, "and therefore, they are an awful person" politically be careful to figure out where the logical leap is happening. Every time I arrive at that conclusion it's because I realize that a person's politics and/or religion is nothing more than a smokescreen for their abusiveness
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Nov 22, 2021 18:54
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People will cut other people they don't like out of their lives if possible. Sometimes, that might be due to their politics, even if they are a fascist with a kind heart. I really don't get these long screeds about the subject, people are going to what they want.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:03
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If only someone had told Zhukov and Eisenhower to try hugging and cuddling Himmler and Göring, no wonder they became even bigger Nazis, what do you expect when all those meanies bullied them so much
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Nov 22, 2021 19:08
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Epic High Five posted:Yeah even the totally car-brained people aren't defending this or trying to handwave it, if that's who did it they're gonna get put through the wringer I figure they're already prepping the "He was actually a democrat and all of the Trump poo poo they inevitably find is a false flag" narrative.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:08
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I was getting very mad at republicans in my life for supporting the things the republican party did. Then I stopped thinking of myself as a democrat, and started feeling anger at liberals in my life for supporting the things democrats did: supporting the famine in Yemen, supporting turning Libya into a hellscape, supporting sending kill teams through Afghanistan and elsewhere, stopping any possibility of socialized healthcare, local policies of brutality to the homeless and unquestioning support of police violence. Then I decided I really didn't want to get mad at almost everyone in my life for politics (that no one has any actual influence on anyway) and have been happier since.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:13
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Phelddagrif posted:I'm not familiar with Powell, but from a quick search it looks like he's a career Treasury worker who was first appointed as a Fed governor by Obama, and has been praised for the Fed's actions in response to Covid. Could someone more knowledgeable than I explain what actions he's taken that mean he shouldn't be re-nominated? The alternative was a woman with progressive goals like climate change and wealth inequality so there was hopes she would get the nod. But all indicators said Powell would get it regardless. Basically we're sitting in a political moment where we have lots of people who want immediate social and economic change but many more entrenched boomers etc who are happy with things exactly the way they are.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:26
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Best Friends posted:I was getting very mad at republicans in my life for supporting the things the republican party did. Then I stopped thinking of myself as a democrat, and started feeling anger at liberals in my life for supporting the things democrats did: supporting the famine in Yemen, supporting turning Libya into a hellscape, supporting sending kill teams through Afghanistan and elsewhere, stopping any possibility of socialized healthcare, local policies of brutality to the homeless and unquestioning support of police violence. Thank you for your wise and enlightened take, I will make sure to remind people who are having family-shattering arguments because they've discovered that half of their loved ones are crypto-fascists that both sides are just as bad 
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Nov 22, 2021 19:27
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Best Friends posted:I was getting very mad at republicans in my life for supporting the things the republican party did. Then I stopped thinking of myself as a democrat, and started feeling anger at liberals in my life for supporting the things democrats did: supporting the famine in Yemen, supporting turning Libya into a hellscape, supporting sending kill teams through Afghanistan and elsewhere, stopping any possibility of socialized healthcare, local policies of brutality to the homeless and unquestioning support of police violence. I was getting very mad at republicans in my life for their stances on LGBT issues (including an intervention when I came out where I was asked if I know Lucifer), the anti-abortion drumbeating, and more recently the anti-vax and mask agitating. It isn't unreasonable to cut people out of your life due to their lovely views. While voting Republican may not always be enough, it correlates pretty well with the items I listed above and is enough to be a giant red flag for me. Edit: typos. Phone posting. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 19:31
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Kraftwerk posted:The alternative was a woman with progressive goals like climate change and wealth inequality so there was hopes she would get the nod. But all indicators said Powell would get it regardless. I think your last sentence understates it somewhat, there's a whole lot of entrenched boomers who are not only happy with the way things are, they expect greater-than-inflation increases to the stock market and housing prices to continue and will blow a gasket if they don't. The biggest issue with Powell is that in response to Covid he overinflated both house and the stock market, in effect a massive transfer of wealth from younger/poorer folks to older already-wealthy folks. At least so far he isn't showing signs of being Volcker, but the long-term dysfunction in the economy is going to continue to fester.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:38
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Trazz posted:Thank you for your wise and enlightened take, I will make sure to remind people who are having family-shattering arguments because they've discovered that half of their loved ones are crypto-fascists that both sides are just as bad They didn't say both sides are equally bad, they said both sides are bad, which is true How much evil is someone allowed to vote for before, in your view, they deserve to be ostracized
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Nov 22, 2021 19:39
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Kraftwerk posted:The alternative was a woman with progressive goals like climate change and wealth inequality so there was hopes she would get the nod. But all indicators said Powell would get it regardless. The fed chairman has nothing to do with social or economic change, and their views on climate change are entirely irrelevant to the position. It seems like certain people are just looking for a reason to be mad.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:41
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Dubar posted:The fed chairman has nothing to do with social or economic change, and their views on climate change are entirely irrelevant to the position. It seems like certain people are just looking for a reason to be mad. Yes, clearly keeping in a weird old Republican fossil was the best choice and signals everyone that it's worth being a Democratic party member. Biden really is an amazing tactician. Edit: Imagine Trump appointing a Democrat to that position.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:42
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:They didn't say both sides are equally bad, they said both sides are bad, which is true Are you being uninvited to holiday dinners or something?
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Nov 22, 2021 19:48
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Pervis posted:At least so far he isn't showing signs of being Volcker, but the long-term dysfunction in the economy is going to continue to fester. Yeah. Not that he has much control over it, but Biden has at least not made the same suicidal mistake Carter made and let the Fed spike inflation rates to double digits in the middle of a stagnant economy. The GOP have all the momentum right now, but using the Fed to slow down the economy would do nothing to fix unemployment or underemployment or any kind of supply shortages we have right now. It'd just be pain with no benefit and feed into the same false economic narratives that have trapped the US in dysfunction since Reagan.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:48
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I was getting very mad at republicans in my life for their stances on LGBT issues (including an intervention when I came out where I was asked if I know Lucifer), the anti-abortion drumbeating,, and more recently the anti-vax and mask agitating. This. Voting republican isn't about voting republican, its about the fact that voting republican is just one symptom of the toxic american disease where believing in hatred and expressing publicly and vocally it becomes your entire personality. Just look at that stupid kid rock video. How anyone can stand to be around anyone that talks about snowflakes and gay agendas and triggering and illegal immigrants ruining are cuntry and black on black violence and blue lives matter and all that other poo poo is beyond me. I only talk to like two other people at my school anymore unless its absolutely necessary because they're all like this. Once you're in the cult there's eventually nothing to your humanity beyond the cult.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:49
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Fame Douglas posted:lmao @ Biden reappointing a Republican and Trump appointee. You'd think someone as long in politics at him would know about rewarding loyal party members. Powell has been fine policy-wise. Trump wanted to fire him because he refused to lower interest rates and expand QE right before his re-election campaign. He has also fought back against some of the hard money FED board members by reminding them that full employment and low inflation are both FED mandates and that the FED has been de-prioritizing the full employment mandate for decades. The major criticisms of him are his role as a manager and supervisor.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:55
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Powell has been fine policy-wise. Trump wanted to fire him because he refused to lower interest rates and expand QE right before his re-election campaign. He has also fought back against some of the hard money FED board members by reminding them that full employment and low inflation are both FED mandates and that the FED has been de-prioritizing the full employment mandate for decades. That doesn't matter, it's still a dumb move politically. For a party all concerned with optics, Democrats seem really bad at that.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:56
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As more and more Americans watch in horror and shock as friends and loved ones continue to double-down and radicalize themselves out of polite society, it is important to remind them that the Democrats aren't perfect either! This is a very constructive use of my time.
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Nov 22, 2021 19:59
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Trazz posted:Are you being uninvited to holiday dinners or something? I don't even vote bro
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Nov 22, 2021 20:00
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:I don't even vote bro Oh okay 
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Nov 22, 2021 20:09
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Trazz posted:As more and more Americans watch in horror and shock as friends and loved ones continue to double-down and radicalize themselves out of polite society, it is important to remind them that the Democrats aren't perfect either! This is a very constructive use of my time. Why do you not have moral culpability for dem policies but individual republicans do have moral culpability for republican policies.
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Nov 22, 2021 20:13
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Best Friends posted:Why do you not have moral culpability for dem policies but individual republicans do have moral culpability for republican policies. Nobody has moral culpability for what politicians actually do, everyone has moral culpability for supporting what those politicians say they want to do.
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Nov 22, 2021 20:17
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Trazz posted:Oh okay So are you gonna answer my question or are you gonna keep on doing a weird bit? How much evil is someone allowed to vote for before they must be denied access to festive mashed potatoes because you've strongly implied the answer is "some" but that's a pretty broad range
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Nov 22, 2021 20:17
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Republicans are a uniquely dangerous threat, and you may not love the Democrats, but you have to support them in order to stop the Republicans. Also, Republican nominees are fine, and it's good for Democrats to support and reappoint them. Do you understand how people can see these two statements and conclude at least one of them is a lie? Democrats can't sustain this kind of doublethink forever, but who knows, perhaps this is what voters want to see.
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Nov 22, 2021 20:18
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I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed “both sides are equally bad” actually being stated in anywhere near those terms by someone critical of the Democrats in any version of this thread. It’s reductive, a thought-terminating cliche, usually thrown at someone who just gave a detailed and accurate list of comparably loving bad things the D party has done that should at least get you thinking “huh, well maybe they’re almost as bad”
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Nov 22, 2021 20:19
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Best Friends posted:Why do you not have moral culpability for dem policies but individual republicans do have moral culpability for republican policies. Because bigotry and abuse and being a brainwashed cult-member aren't really "policies" Uncle Roy isn't being invited back to Thanksgiving dinner because of "policy," he's being uninvited because he called your nephew a transgender communist for getting vaccinated
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Nov 22, 2021 20:19
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My chud relatives ostracized me before I could ostracize them because they kept picking fights on Facebook with me and my friends over leftist posts and getting dogpiled by my friends in return until they couldn't even feel any fun from trolling me anymore because the social response was overwhelmingly against them. They stopped primarily because they saw there were clearly no libs to be owned and then sent me passive aggressive messages telling me that I'm being rude, my friends are jerks, and I should apologize for making my mother and sisters feel bad.
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Nov 22, 2021 20:20
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misadventurous posted:I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed “both sides are equally bad” actually being stated in anywhere near those terms by someone critical of the Democrats in any version of this thread. It’s reductive, a thought-terminating cliche, usually thrown at someone who just gave a detailed and accurate list of comparably loving bad things the D party has done that should at least get you thinking “huh, well maybe they’re almost as bad” Then you haven't been reading much "Biden is worse then Trump" was a very common thing in the General Election thread last year.
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Nov 22, 2021 20:23
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Sanguinia posted:Nobody has moral culpability for what politicians actually do, everyone has moral culpability for supporting what those politicians say they want to do. Most dems supported Obama's foreign policy, which has been torturing and starving the people of Yemen ever since, and killed who knows how many innocent people by our drones and kill teams. Why should a reasonable, moral person not cut all the dems out of their lives just as they've surely cut out republicans?
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Nov 22, 2021 20:23
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Fame Douglas posted:That doesn't matter, it's still a dumb move politically. For a party all concerned with optics, Democrats seem really bad at that. I don't think the average American cares about the optics of the FED Governorship seats. It's about policy. They key things with Biden and the FED are that he appointed the very progressive Lael Brainard as the Vice Chair - who is in charge of monetary policy - and the Vice Chair for Supervision on the Board of Governors (which is the seat that oversees banking regulations) is opening up shortly. Brainard also has some really interesting ideas about universal banking and digital currency. Filling that empty VCS seat will be extremely important and potentially have a major impact on the future of the FED regulatory policy. There's good arguments again Powell from a management-perspective, but he's fine on policy. Lael Brainard is a great choice, but if he really blows the VSC nomination, then that would be a huge bummer. The current VSC is a Republican and former private equity CEO, so it will be hard to do worse, but it will be easy to blow a major opportunity. The FED is required to be independent when setting monetary policy, but it has a lot of leeway to be political with banking regulations.
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Nov 22, 2021 20:25
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Best Friends posted:Most dems supported Obama's foreign policy, which has been torturing and starving the people of Yemen ever since, and killed who knows how many innocent people by our drones and kill teams. Why should a reasonable, moral person not cut all the dems out of their lives just as they've surely cut out republicans? I guess they should, congratulations, you got me. I am completely owned. Enjoy your Thanksgiving with your Nazi Aunt guilt free. Or alone with your morals intact. You know, whichever. (The answer is that Democrats are persuadable that they're wrong because their bad opinions generally operate on logic, even if its twisted capitalist/neo-imperialist logic. Republicans don't because bigotry and fascism aren't logical)
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Nov 22, 2021 20:29
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