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Freaquency posted:Yeah that seems a little histrionic. There was surely a better option to fit what the Giants needed there, but Saquon isn’t even close to being a bust. I don't think he's saying their draft that year started with the worst pick, just that it had it Which is still debatable, obviously, but Kyle Lauletta getting drafted, getting arrested on the way to practice for reckless driving, getting a 0 passer rating in his only ever game, and appearing on and bouncing off of 3 other teams (currently on a fourth's practice squad!) over two more years is probably at least up there for Giants QB draft picks all-time
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Nov 23, 2021 19:19
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Professor Funk posted:Also a weird comment given Maccagnan drafted Hackenberg in the 2nd round. Though I would argue that’s the most *embarrassing* pick of all time, though not the worst given it wasn’t a high 1st rounder. I think he was the first major prospect where PFF said "not an actual NFL prospect, we're not submitting a grade on this guy"? https://www.pff.com/news/draft-why-pff-doesnt-have-a-draftable-grade-on-christian-hackenberg And per QBASE he was literally the worst prospect drafted in the top 100, ever: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2021/introducing-qbase-v20
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Nov 23, 2021 19:25
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There is objectively no worse draft pick given the other options available, the team, and the trade, than mitchell d trubisky
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Nov 23, 2021 19:27
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From a strictly value standpoint the worst draft pick is Seabass followed by Roberto Aguayo
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Nov 23, 2021 19:32
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Isentropy posted:I think he was the first major prospect where PFF said "not an actual NFL prospect, we're not submitting a grade on this guy"? Yeah, which is why it's an absolutely embarrassing draft pick. I don't think it's a *worse*, i.e. more impactful, pick than high first rounders like Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, even Manziel (though that's closer I suppose since he was drafted 1-22), given the value of the pick used on him. The best counterargument to this is that the Jets decided to take Jamal Adams at 6 the following year (and not Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes) because they wanted to try to develop Hackenberg. God there are so many painful memories. DariusLikewise posted:From a strictly value standpoint the worst draft pick is Seabass followed by Roberto Aguayo I'm glad you left Mike Nugent off this list. Professor Funk fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Nov 23, 2021 |
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Nov 23, 2021 19:34
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Diva Cupcake posted:All the receivers were settling for 1 year deals and below market value contracts and Gettleman bursts through the door like the Kool-Aid Man and hands Golladay $40m guaranteed. Man Sean Payton is a loving wizard
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Nov 23, 2021 19:38
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Cavauro posted:my friend is going to rank the qbs make sure he gets it right this time or there will be hell to pay
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Nov 23, 2021 19:50
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R.D. Mangles posted:There is objectively no worse draft pick given the other options available, the team, and the trade, than mitchell d trubisky I want to say it has to be a #1, but the trade makes this arguable in my mind.
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Nov 23, 2021 20:30
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DeimosRising posted:I want to say it has to be a #1, but the trade makes this arguable in my mind. The thing keeping it from being the worst draft move is how badly the niners bungled the haul they got from Chicago
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Nov 23, 2021 20:34
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We would talk about the rg3 trade Washington made with the Rams being the worst draft move if any of the players the Rams got with Washington's picks were worth a poo poo
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Nov 23, 2021 20:36
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It's too early to say Saquon Barkley isn't a bust. A smart GM probably doesn't sign him to an extension and if you don't sign your #2 overall pick to an extension, that's a huge loving bust of a pick, injuries or not.
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Nov 23, 2021 20:58
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Barkley would have to play like he did at his rookie year peak consistently over four years to be considered anything more than a reach. Giants fans can correct me if I'm off base here, but the few times I've seen him actually on the field outside his rookie year he hasn't looked like much more than simply a solid starter.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:05
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He's a bust OP!
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Nov 23, 2021 21:06
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Diva Cupcake posted:It's too early to say Saquon Barkley isn't a bust. A smart GM probably doesn't sign him to an extension and if you don't sign your #2 overall pick to an extension, that's a huge loving bust of a pick, injuries or not. Yeah but he's arguably not even the worst running back drafted #2 this millenium depending on how you feel about Saints-era Reggie Bush. He might be a bust, he's indisputably a bad use of the #2 pick, but it's not even on the radar of worst picks ever, I think.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:13
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I would support the Jets signing Saquon to a 1 year/$6 million deal next year TBQH
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Nov 23, 2021 21:14
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Professor Funk posted:I would support the Jets signing Saquon to a 1 year/$6 million deal next year TBQH I want Ronald Jones.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:15
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Raku posted:Man Sean Payton is a loving wizard Hes real good OP
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Nov 23, 2021 21:18
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He isn't the worst draft pick of all time but let us never forget the Dolphins traded up to take Dion Jordan.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:20
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Was gonna say that that whole draft was pretty talent poor in the first, but oh, Lane Johnson went with the next pick.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:24
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I think Barkley is highly overrated and the pick was really dumb but it's not in the top 50 worst picks of all time. Any first round bust is worse. At least they got some level of production from Barkely for a few years.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:27
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Have there been "biggest draft busts in the history of the NFL" threads in TFF before? You'd have to consider what was traded for the pick as well. It would be better if it didn't include picks who got hurt right away but were just terrible or cancerous in their own right. I'm always partial to Ryan Leaf. I figure JaMarcus Russell would be in there somewhere in the conversation.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:29
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I really like this guy (except for the owner son thing)
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Nov 23, 2021 21:30
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Both the players the Raiders selected with the Dion Jordan picks were meh but it was the Raiders so I dont know if its fair to judge that way.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:38
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TheBizzness posted:He isn't the worst draft pick of all time but let us never forget the Dolphins traded up to take Dion Jordan. Wasn’t he actually pretty solid as a rookie and showed flashes, until the team asked him to bulk up to play some different role that cost him a lot of the speed and agility that had been his game up to that point? I remember Dolphin fans talking about him doing well covering guys like Gronk and not being bad at first, but then he had all his issues after that first season trying to be a different type of player.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:43
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mcmagic posted:I think Barkley is highly overrated and the pick was really dumb but it's not in the top 50 worst picks of all time. Any first round bust is worse. At least they got some level of production from Barkely for a few years. A lot of the bust perception came from the opportunity cost. Gettleman could have drafted Sam Darnold instead!
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Nov 23, 2021 21:47
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mcmagic posted:I think Barkley is highly overrated and the pick was really dumb but it's not in the top 50 worst picks of all time. Any first round bust is worse. At least they got some level of production from Barkely for a few years. Yeah this is my thing. I think it’s pretty obvious that it wasn’t a good pick, but this is the same draft that had Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen go in the top 10 so it isn’t even the worst pick of this class. He’s not even the worst RB pick of the first round! We like to think about the unspoiled potential of these top 10 picks but for every Josh Allen you’re going to get a couple of duds because the whole drat thing is a crapshoot. At the very least Barkley didn’t flame out.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:48
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Raku posted:Man Sean Payton is a loving wizard at getting owned in the playoffs by the vikings lmao
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Nov 23, 2021 21:52
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a neat cape posted:https://twitter.com/FB_FilmAnalysis/status/1462898004851974144?t=72IbP5jwlcg_u3sn3XBpBw&s=19 The late touchdown to Mike Williams I could swear is like the fifth touchdown that looked exactly like that, the same splitting the corner and safety along the sidelines with a laser, the same kind of over-the-shoulder right on-the-money catch, and they were all to Mike Williams. It's a great play call because most qbs can't make that throw that well
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Nov 23, 2021 21:53
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Dubious posted:at getting owned in the playoffs by the vikings lmao Hrm, I can think of one time that didn’t happen.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:59
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fartknocker posted:Wasn’t he actually pretty solid as a rookie and showed flashes, until the team asked him to bulk up to play some different role that cost him a lot of the speed and agility that had been his game up to that point? I remember Dolphin fans talking about him doing well covering guys like Gronk and not being bad at first, but then he had all his issues after that first season trying to be a different type of player. That sounds accurate, yeah. Not sure when the drug problems took over exactly.
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Nov 23, 2021 21:59
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Chucktesla posted:The thing keeping it from being the worst draft move is how badly the niners bungled the haul they got from Chicago While that was certainly disappointing and embarrassing for the Niners I don’t see how it factors for the Bears
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Nov 23, 2021 22:23
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Freaquency posted:At the very least Barkley didn’t flame out.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:33
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Barkley needed to produce at Derrick Henry levels to come close to being merely a reach. He's a bust, but only by virtue of a team being so loving dumb as to pick a back in the modern nfl with a #2 pick.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:35
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Diva Cupcake posted:What’s you definition of flaming out here? There was a flame early on and for a host of reasons he hasn’t had a 100 yard game since 2019. He hasn’t been Trent Richardson bad which I think is a pretty good yardstick. His first two years were 1000-yard seasons, then he was injured last year and part of this year, and then until today saddled with Jason Garrett as his OC. He could still fall off a cliff if he isn’t the same post-injury or if his brain is broken playing for the Giants or whatever, in which case it’s obviously fine to re-evaluate him, but right now I don’t see anything in the (admittedly few) times I’ve watched him play this year that would indicate he has serious problems.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:46
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Trent Richardson
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Nov 23, 2021 22:48
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Ryan Leaf had a bad rookie year and a bad attitude, and after he got hurt, he let both of those things compound until they blew his life. He was a huge bust. But the pre-draft evidence that that might happen was that, like, he gained a lot weight before the combine and came across as arrogant in interviews. If you’re ranking these things purely as GM mistakes, I don’t know that you can put Leaf up there with some of the “what the gently caress were you thinking” moments like drafting Brandon Weeden 22nd overall at age 28.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:49
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I dunno 28 doesn't seem that egregious for the cradle eggshell soft position that is qb. Ignoring a guy being an atrocious interview/attitude and doing a jamarcus russell in the 2 months between end of season and combine is a bigger red flag imo.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:52
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rjmccall posted:Ryan Leaf had a bad rookie year and a bad attitude, and after he got hurt, he let both of those things compound until they blew his life. He was a huge bust. But the pre-draft evidence that that might happen was that, like, he gained a lot weight before the combine and came across as arrogant in interviews. If you’re ranking these things purely as GM mistakes, I don’t know that you can put Leaf up there with some of the “what the gently caress were you thinking” moments like drafting Brandon Weeden 22nd overall at age 28. I usually take "bad attitude" stuff with a grain of salt but his pre-draft stuff was way more than just him being arrogant. He straight up worked to make sure the Colts didn't draft him. The weight gain stuff was bad because part of why he was considered maybe superior to Manning was that he was way more athletic. The Ryan Leaf we saw in the NFL could never have been mistaken for an athletic QB. But he was considered that promising that he was still a high pick.
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Nov 23, 2021 22:54
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Freaquency posted:Yeah that seems a little histrionic. There was surely a better option to fit what the Giants needed there, but Saquon isn’t even close to being a bust. his rookie contract is just about up and he’s yet to gain 4000 all purpose yards, his cap hit starts going up starting next season and he’s only been an especially good RB part of his rookie year. that seems fairly bustish
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Nov 23, 2021 23:06
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indigi posted:his rookie contract is just about up and he’s yet to gain 4000 all purpose yards, his cap hit starts going up starting next season and he’s only been an especially good RB part of his rookie year. that seems fairly bustish That’s fair I guess. I think I just differentiate between guys like this who it seems like don’t take off because they’re drafted into a dogshit organization and guys like Manziel, who would have busted even if he’d been picked up by a team like the Pats. The latter is a definitive bust, the former more of an “if only” sort of scenario. I know I’m not alone in this thinking because there are a few Josh Rosen stans still out there, somehow, but it’s probably not the metric most people are using. It’s still ridiculous to say he’s the worst draft pick of all time though.
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Nov 23, 2021 23:18
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