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TheDisreputableDog posted:Yes? Is this a trick question? “We’re going after this base” is substantively different from “We’re sending a drone to kill this US citizen, source:trust me bro he’s bad”. No it's not a trick question I was just wondering. Like to me the bad part about extrajudicially assassinating US citizens on a presidential kill list is the "extrajudicially assassinating US citizens" part not so much the "list" part. When I hear the president murdered somebody with no oversight or accountability, I don't go "but were they on a list". Wild.
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Nov 24, 2021 01:36
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Having a functioning (...non-Taliban?) Afghan state done sailed a long time ago. The withdrawal was handled alright - better handling of the refugees would have been real real good. I sort-of buy the argument that Afghanistan couldn’t reasonably have been handled better, but Biden turned it into a massive own-goal by promising no “Saigon moments”. Either he was monumentally wrong or blowing smoke.
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Nov 24, 2021 01:39
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Cite the later part of that statement please? Because they actually said they stopped. This big guy, huge general looked like he was right out of central casting, came to me, tears in his eyes, and he said, "Sir, thank you for stopping extrajudicial killings of US citizens." And you know what? Despite massively expanding the program with even less oversight, it did! And they told me that would never happen! But it did!
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Nov 24, 2021 01:42
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Cite the later part of that statement please? Because they actually said they stopped. Fair, I really have no idea if he did or not. But I think the entire argument is dumb and that was my point. The drone program has had a natural progression under multiple presidents to expand the ability of the president to call for military strikes. Literally any president after Obama would have made similar changes as Trump did. And Trump saying it would never happen doesn't mean much when the option is left on the table. There was nothing stopping him like there was nothing stopping Obama. Both parties and the last 4 presidents have been in general agreement when it comes to this issue. If the president thinks you're a terrorist he can order your death, this is policy shared by both parties.
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Nov 24, 2021 01:43
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I sort-of buy the argument that Afghanistan couldn’t reasonably have been handled better, but Biden turned it into a massive own-goal by promising no “Saigon moments”. Either he was monumentally wrong or blowing smoke. Has something more come out? At the time and immediately after it seemed pretty slam dunk that the big huge problem was all the brass who said that we had months no worries mate, before the Taliban swept across the land, and of course ended up being huge wrong morons forcing 4 weeks of preparations into 1
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Nov 24, 2021 01:44
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Cite the later part of that statement please? Because they actually said they stopped. Per the article Sean Spicer made this claim which sort of guarantees it was a lie. He also conveniently made no mention of the new drone strike parameters the Trump administration installed that allowed for killing civilians if the strike was deemed necessary by a field commander, and that strikes were allowed outside conventional warzones. It'll be years before we know for sure though because all the info has to be FOIA'd and hopefully not heavily redacted, as Trump revoked a rule regarding reporting drone strike deaths. Frankly not sure what your point is here. Yes, blasting an American citizen crossed a line legally, but morally both administrations took grave actions. Trump's more so. skylined! fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 01:45
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i forget, i know trump ended the "report civilian casualties" but did he also have a "if they were near the target they were target related" policy or was that a holdover from obama?
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Nov 24, 2021 01:46
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I sort-of buy the argument that Afghanistan couldn’t reasonably have been handled better, but Biden turned it into a massive own-goal by promising no “Saigon moments”. Either he was monumentally wrong or blowing smoke. Not that I'm absolving Biden - he's the CiC and the buck stops with him - but I think it's pretty obvious his military advisors and intel agencies lied to him and set him up to hold their bag. When he gave that infamous speech a couple days before the pullout started he cites all kinds of specifics about timetables of how long the government will hold out and how many troops they have available and how ready they were to fight. There's no way he knows any of that poo poo. He was just repeating what he was dumb enough to believe when his advisors painted him a completely false picture of the situation. That's why one thing I will give Biden absolute credit for is standing his ground once it became clear how badly he was set up and following through with the withdraw. I remember him saying something like "every president since Bush passed this war to the next president and I refuse to pass it on again."
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Nov 24, 2021 01:52
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skylined! posted:Frankly not sure what your point is here. Yes, blasting an American citizen crossed a line legally That actually is my point. I was responding to some who said that Trump did every bad thing Obama did and went on to expand on it. That’s not true.
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Nov 24, 2021 01:53
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TheDisreputableDog posted:That actually is my point. I was responding to some who said that Trump did every bad thing Obama did and went on to expand on it. That’s not true. Is that not expanding it. It seems to me like Trump just stopped doing any oversight whatsoever on Obama's drone murder program and just greenlighted whoever the generals wanted to kill that day, I don't see how that isn't expanding it. Like I guess if you're only talking about the president's personal involvement that got cut back because "eh blow up whatever I'm busy tweeting about Rosie O'Donnell" is reduced involvement compared to working late in the Oval Office personally putting ✅ or ❌ next to every 6 year old, but if we're talking about the program itself less oversight and restraint is an expansion. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 02:00
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I sort-of buy the argument that Afghanistan couldn’t reasonably have been handled better, but Biden turned it into a massive own-goal by promising no “Saigon moments”. Either he was monumentally wrong or blowing smoke. Any chance of leaving behind a non-imploding Afghanistan would have involved recovering the old teacher/professional class and giving them a prominent role in (re)creating a civil society that went beyind the Kabul city limits. But they are sadly 1-seen as communists in the eyes if US and allies, since many held positions or were educated in the pre-taliban regime, 2-are dispersed and have little power of their own compared to the warlords, the neighboring ISI, etc.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:01
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TheDisreputableDog posted:That actually is my point. I was responding to some who said that Trump did every bad thing Obama did and went on to expand on it. That’s not true. It's also not false. We do not know because the trump administration took great care in obfuscating who they were killing from the public, while ramping up the droning of combatants and civilians alike 10 fold. I know what I'd bet on.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:06
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Sephyr posted:Any chance of leaving behind a non-imploding Afghanistan would have involved recovering the old teacher/professional class and giving them a prominent role in (re)creating a civil society that went beyind the Kabul city limits. It also would have required this to happen over a decade ago, with the cooperation of the Karzai government and stringent backing from a U.N. legal mission to root out corruption long enough to allow the changes to take hold. But this would have gotten in the way of changing the agriculture market into an Opium Market and would have held a lot more people accountable, so it wasn't going to happen.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:17
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Are you freaking kidding me? Trump literally made a deal with the Taliban which tied the hands of any incoming administration. Not to mention, Bush Jr really hosed it up too! That same deal Trump made has the US pulling out by May, 2021. Blaming Trump for how badly the pull out went in Afghanistan mirrors the Obama-Biden administration blaming the Status of Forces Agreement negotiated by Bush for the poor results of pulling the troops from Iraq. Biden wants to claim credit for ending the war in Afghanistan while shifting the blame for the way he did it on the Trump administration. Not to mention that Obama and Biden had 8 years to remove the troops from Afghanistan and didn't. The Taliban was always going go win, Biden could have ordered the withdrawal as soon as he was in office. If anything Trump's order to remove troops from Syria show how quickly it could be done.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:24
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PeterCat posted:If anything Trump's order to remove troops from Syria show how quickly it could be done. I don't think that went particularly well either and given what we know about what exactly was happening in Afghanistan, a faster US withdrawal would have been even more chaotic.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:25
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PeterCat posted:That same deal Trump made has the US pulling out by May, 2021. Blaming Trump for how badly the pull out went in Afghanistan mirrors the Obama-Biden administration blaming the Status of Forces Agreement negotiated by Bush for the poor results of pulling the troops from Iraq. Biden wants to claim credit for ending the war in Afghanistan while shifting the blame for the way he did it on the Trump administration. Not to mention that Obama and Biden had 8 years to remove the troops from Afghanistan and didn't.  Are you upset because the withdrawal wasn't planned well enough or because it wasn't executed soon enough?
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Nov 24, 2021 02:30
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Cite the later part of that statement please? Because they actually said they stopped. What reason, exactly, do we have to trust Trump on this, a man who is a habitual liar? The same Trump that revoked transparency on not only our Nuclear weapons, but Drone Strikes in general? The same guy who basically tried to execute a coup because he didn't get his way? That guy? Literally surrounded himself with other outright liars that would make a career politician blush? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207 CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 02:30
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Joe Biden fully removing the US from Afghanistan is probably his only actual accomplishment, and is very likely to be the only one of his presidency. Sure he should have pulled us out sooner but I was legitimately surprised he didn't leave behind some bullshit "security force" that would stay for another 20 years.
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Nov 24, 2021 02:42
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Everybody's favorite pillow, towel, and gibbering speculation magnate has released the full text of his request for the SCOTUS to undo the election and reinstate Trump. The legally trained and otherwise astute posters here may notice a few odd irregularities and missing things https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1463310357187940356
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Nov 24, 2021 02:43
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PeterCat posted:If anything Trump's order to remove troops from Syria show how quickly it could be done. It's weird to recognize this in the same post where you blame Biden for not moving fast enough, when Trump had 4 years to withdraw from Afghanistan but didn't.  https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1463310584003411973?s=20 skylined! fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 02:44
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skylined! posted:It's weird to recognize this in the same post where you blame Biden for not moving fast enough, when Trump had 4 years to withdraw. Is she so stupid she can't remember Cawthorne is a paraplegic, or is that actually a really ice cold chaos dunk? YOU DECIDE!
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Nov 24, 2021 02:50
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I personally find it loving hilarious that Kyle Rittenhouse is the Media darling of the right at the moment, and the guy still can't get an entry level job like the rest of his Zoomer/ Millenial cohorts All they are offering their new saint is a (probably unpaid) internship? Amazing  TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 02:51
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PeterCat posted:That same deal Trump made has the US pulling out by May, 2021. Blaming Trump for how badly the pull out went in Afghanistan mirrors the Obama-Biden administration blaming the Status of Forces Agreement negotiated by Bush for the poor results of pulling the troops from Iraq. Biden wants to claim credit for ending the war in Afghanistan while shifting the blame for the way he did it on the Trump administration. Not to mention that Obama and Biden had 8 years to remove the troops from Afghanistan and didn't. No, they literally weren't as per the earlier article I posted there was at a time a real opportunity to try and make a difference but Bush hosed it up. It's sucks that he wasn't able to pass the ball to the next incoming administration.
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Nov 24, 2021 03:07
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Class3KillStorm posted:My understanding is that Senate Dems can't pass the bill as is right now, as it wouldn't meet the 60 vote threshold with all 50 Republicans holding out against it. They would need to agree to a filibuster carve out for voting rights, which is something that they COULD do, but Manchin (and Sinema? And possibly a few other quieter hold outs?) is holding fast on "no changes to filibuster status" right now, so they CAN'T pass the bill currently. thanks for the explanation. it's a headscratcher since i would assume Dems are interested in maintaining their control over Congress but they dont seem to be taking any initiative in that regard
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Nov 24, 2021 03:52
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lil poopendorfer posted:thanks for the explanation. it's a headscratcher since i would assume Dems are interested in maintaining their control over Congress but they dont seem to be taking any initiative in that regard Kind of shocked to hear you're so surprised by this tbh
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Nov 24, 2021 04:00
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Epic High Five posted:Kind of shocked to hear you're so surprised by this tbh I'm not, I'm deeply cynical and had my suspicions (they don't actually want to be in power or help their constituents) but there's usually some kind of positive way to spin these decisions. even a nakedly self-interested politician wants to maintain their power, so i figured this would be a priority for the Democrats.
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Nov 24, 2021 04:08
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Epic High Five posted:Everybody's favorite pillow, towel, and gibbering speculation magnate has released the full text of his request for the SCOTUS to undo the election and reinstate Trump. The legally trained and otherwise astute posters here may notice a few odd irregularities and missing things Actual document if anyone likes: https://cdn.michaeljlindell.com/downloads/fix2020first/states-v-us-and-states-compl-2021-11-23.pdf When the thread suggests that it was the same lawyer who drafted the Texas suit, and relies on some of the same argument, it's underselling it. Lengthy stretches are verbatim identical.
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Nov 24, 2021 04:17
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eviltastic posted:Actual document if anyone likes: https://cdn.michaeljlindell.com/downloads/fix2020first/states-v-us-and-states-compl-2021-11-23.pdf There's not really any way to put into a sentence how dumb and insane it is, though I do enjoy that he made sure to call out Dominion despite the huge lawsuit he is currently battling with them
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Nov 24, 2021 04:19
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CommieGIR posted:What reason, exactly, do we have to trust Trump on this, a man who is a habitual liar? The same Trump that revoked transparency on not only our Nuclear weapons, but Drone Strikes in general? The same guy who basically tried to execute a coup because he didn't get his way? That guy? Literally surrounded himself with other outright liars that would make a career politician blush? Bro I asked for a citation for a claim, no one could provide one, then the OP more or less backed off. It’s fine.
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Nov 24, 2021 04:31
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Cite the later part of that statement please? Because they actually said they stopped. Didn't he explicitly send US martials to carry out a hit on an American citizen and call it 'retribution' for an alleged crime. Seems like an extrajudicial murder of a US citizen who was on a kill list to me, unless there's some other escape clauses like "the list wasn't written down" or "it wasn't on Yemeni territory" or whatever
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Nov 24, 2021 04:41
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If it's really so easy for presidents to constrain their successor's behavior at everything, it seems like Obama really made a catastrophic fuckup by not tying Trump's hands into doing lots of good things
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Nov 24, 2021 04:49
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Biden is absolutely using stuff like court orders to avoid doing stuff he can legally do. Just look at the remain in Mexico nonsense. There is absolutely no way on this earth that a judge should be able to get away with ordering the federal government to negotiate a specific treaty with a foreign power, but the Biden admin just went well hands are tied gently caress all y'all.
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Nov 24, 2021 05:20
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Jury awards $26M in damages for Unite the Right violence https://apnews.com/article/violence-lawsuits-race-and-ethnicity-charlottesville-01d9437ec28ed71b4bae293d7e0d815d Spoiler the racists have to pay Incase the title mislead you as it did me. I thought the nazis won but the infact lost a lot of stolen gold on this one.
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Nov 24, 2021 05:21
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https://twitter.com/jeffcohenexec/status/1463341948618493952?s=19 Basically, internal emails from the makers of McDonald's always broke ice cream machines prove that they were trying to copy the little diagnostic hack device that franchise owners weren't allowed to use to service their own machines, which was/is costing them loads of money in service fees.
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Nov 24, 2021 05:36
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Has anyone been keeping track of the Brian liandre stuff? https://apnews.com/article/florida-755ef111f2e1b0f8d9d8faba21eabbe8 So bones were found of Brian, with a gunshot wound to the head and has now been ruled a suicide. How the gently caress is this a suicide if the man was turned into a pile of bones in a few months. It's fairly insane. I don't know a huge amount about this so far other than a few articles read.
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Nov 24, 2021 06:27
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It's a hot semitropical swamp, not a cool anaerobic peat bog. poo poo breaks down super quick in the right conditions.
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Nov 24, 2021 06:35
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Has anyone been keeping track of the Brian liandre stuff? you realize that a swamp in florida is literally like the perfect place for someone's corpse to be stripped to bones right like even before the animals start ripping the corpse apart, or even the insects thay are going to start devouring it, the body is going to also be consumed by bacteria good place to preserve remains: cool, minimal oxygen, low humidity, probably not near any troves of wildlife absolute worst place: florida
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Nov 24, 2021 06:37
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OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:you realize that a swamp in florida is literally like the perfect place for someone's corpse to be stripped to bones right This info is good, I'd wonder if they found a firearm on him. They only specified a backpack and a notebook.
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Nov 24, 2021 06:43
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Has anyone been keeping track of the Brian liandre stuff? i had a deer in my park die on thursday, and when i checked the location of the corpse today for signs that large predators were feeding it was already picked down to the bones with some gristle attached, fur, and antlers and i don't work in a straight up swamp. someone being reduced to bones after being out there for months seems completely plausible, especially when there could be other non-digestible parts on or near the bones and they just don't report on those details because it's ghoulish as gently caress i wonder if the true crimes podcasters will reconsider how they acted during this entire ugly episode, especially the bit about harassing the brian's parents based on satellite photos supposedly showing a bunker hidden under their flower bed, when it turns out it was actually the obvious outcome instead
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Nov 24, 2021 06:47
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that's why people go to florida to die
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