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Blut posted:Individual cops obviously might get lucky and succeed in shooting someone in the leg. But its still not the official policy of any police forces to aim for limbs in Europe that I've seen information on, for obvious practicality reasons. Got some sources for Finland or Germany? After a cursory search in the case of Finland, it seems our cops themselves are reluctant to officially state any policy beyond "priority is on non-violent de-escalation of the situation, use of firearms is always the last means of resort and should adhere to a proportionality principle, and all police use of force is always investigated. The police are trained to consider any shooting even as potentially fatal". Because we have so few cop shootings, even anecdotal data is sparse, but in an exceptional spree stabbing incident back in 2017, when police arrived on the scene they shot the man in the thigh and tasered him. Some police shootings here have involved guns on the suspect's side too, and presumably the cops would assess the threat level higher.
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Nov 21, 2021 19:59
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Germany has more shooting going on, so here's two instances from 2021quote:Witnesses reported the incident to the police, who found the man a short time later. The 39-year-old man was holding another bottle with presumably flammable liquid in his hand, "which he was about to set on fire", the reports said. He was also armed with a knife. quote:In Hilden, North Rhine-Westphalia, a 31-year-old man allegedly attacked police officers with "a kind of samurai sword". He was then shot in the leg, a police spokesperson said. The man was seriously injured and taken to hospital. However, there was no danger to his life.
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Nov 21, 2021 20:14
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Rappaport posted:After a cursory search in the case of Finland, it seems our cops themselves are reluctant to officially state any policy beyond "priority is on non-violent de-escalation of the situation, use of firearms is always the last means of resort and should adhere to a proportionality principle, and all police use of force is always investigated. The police are trained to consider any shooting even as potentially fatal". Because we have so few cop shootings, even anecdotal data is sparse, but in an exceptional spree stabbing incident back in 2017, when police arrived on the scene they shot the man in the thigh and tasered him. Some police shootings here have involved guns on the suspect's side too, and presumably the cops would assess the threat level higher. It’s along similar lines in Turkey, which is set to join the European Union any day now. quote:Within the scope of subparagraph (c) of the seventh paragraph, the police calls the person to "stop" before using a gun. If the person does not comply with this call and continues to flee, a gun may be fired first as a warning. However, if it is not possible to capture the person because he insists on escaping, a gun can be fired in sufficient measure to ensure the capture of the person. A cursory search on Google in Turkey shows countless cases of people deemed violent suspects by the (broadly murderous, practically genocidal) Turkish police being disabled with a shot to the foot, which comports with my reading of this policy that shoot-to-kill is supposed to be a last resort. Although some years ago there were columnists arguing the police should have a license to kill “as they do in America.” Are Turkish cops just great shots? They seem maybe only a hair smarter or skilled than American ones.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:00
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I have this vague recollection that "if you are going to shoot, shoot to kill" is a guideline for private citizens engaging in self-defence, and not specific to any particular country or even to guns (it applies to e.g. knives as well). Basically, the only reason to use potentially lethal weapons is if you're in fear for your life and retreat is not an option for whatever reason (you have a child with you, attacker is chasing you, etc.). If you're in a "it's them or me" situation, it's ok to pull out all the stops and go for the attack that is most likely to put them out of commission, i.e. centre mass. Now aiming for the arms or legs isn't bad per se, but it's a strong indicator that you weren't quite as much in fear of your life as you claimed, because you felt safe enough to take the risk (to yourself) of missing or failing to disable the attacker. You wouldn't do that if your life was actually in danger, or your child's life, and you might get challenged on that during the investigation of the killing.
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Nov 22, 2021 11:36
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NihilCredo posted:I have this vague recollection that "if you are going to shoot, shoot to kill" is a guideline for private citizens engaging in self-defence, and not specific to any particular country or even to guns (it applies to e.g. knives as well). This goes for general self defence, even if you're unarmed. Like, the guideline is: if you have to defend yourself, go in super hard, and make it hurt as much as possible. It's you or them, don't care about what happens to them, put all your strength into the blows.
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Nov 22, 2021 12:21
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The US police is a military force, and the objective of a military force is to kill the enemy. Unsurprisingly, the US police is very good at this. However, the US police is incredibly, laughably, exceedingly terrible at being a police force, to the degree that entire parts of the population genuinely and probably rightly feel they would be not only better off, but safer, if the police were disbanded entirely over night. No country should get it in their heads to take any hints from the US on policework, which especially includes the taste for militarized tacticool procedure and received internet wisdom that you have to shoot people in the heart and head as soon as you draw a gun (which you do as soon as you arrive at the scene since you are, of course, a soldier in a violent military conflict). Yeah, the call of duty aesthetic makes police work seem much cooler. But it ultimately feedback loops into a police force who literally hopes to center point some terrist dude on any given day. This is all just bullshit anyway. This is not science, tjis is the handywork of instructors and consultants who bring in procedure from the military because it sells well. It ends with US police spending valuable training time learning how to kill dudes efficiently. But because these so called experts have all the clout, Americans believe all that poo poo about pulling a machine gun on anyone who the police talks to, and how the police must shoot first and talk later, and how the police can only do their job by escalating maximally, which includes killing the perp. Meanwhile, literally all other police officers all over the world shoot people without turning then into hamburger meat, like, all the time. Edit: GO AS HARD AS POSSIBLE Look at your police. Just look at. I am sure everyone feels so self defended and secure now Lmao Americans sometimes Haramstufe Rot fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 12:44
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Pretty sure the US police are literally more violent, more triggy-happy and less willing to deescalate than the military are. At this point ex-military get kicked out for not being murderous enough.
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Nov 22, 2021 13:33
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Pretty sure the US police are literally more violent, more triggy-happy and less willing to deescalate than the military are. At this point ex-military get kicked out for not being murderous enough.  When that ninja wannabe attacked US soldiers with a Katana in California they did call the cops while hiding in their barrack.
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Nov 22, 2021 14:04
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Toplowtech posted:
To be clear, they were not armed and are constitutionally encouraged to defer in favor of civilian police while on domestic soil.
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Nov 22, 2021 15:01
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Antigravitas posted:It flows naturally from the Verhältnismäßigkeitsgrundsatz (Principle of Proportionality). Since a lot of it is state based and horribly fragmented and hard to access I'll just quote from an old version of the "Bekanntmachung des Bayerischen Staatsministeriums des Innern über den Vollzug des Polizeiaufgabengesetzes", i.e. the Bavarian regulations: Thats really interesting, thanks for that. Thats the only actual formally codified policy of aiming for the limbs I've seen. Good on the Bavarians. Its still wildly impractical in most practical scenarios when things have gotten bad enough for guns to be drawn, but the police at least being told to try to do it can't hurt I suppose.
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Nov 22, 2021 18:15
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police try to shoot at the legs here as well. there are instances of police killing people - especially mentally ill people - but generally when they shoot they seem to avoid killing people. i don't think "wildly impractical" is appropriate
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Nov 23, 2021 00:15
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V. Illych L. posted:police try to shoot at the legs here as well. there are instances of police killing people - especially mentally ill people - but generally when they shoot they seem to avoid killing people. i don't think "wildly impractical" is appropriate I think that a lot of the practicality arguments basically come from guys who are thinking of 25m pistol ranges rather than more realistic five meter engagements. It's very possible to aim for a leg. Americans (whether police or not) are just told to kill, rather than risk physical or legal liability.
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Nov 23, 2021 00:25
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Kaal posted:I think that a lot of the practicality arguments basically come from guys who are thinking of 25m pistol ranges rather than more realistic five meter engagements. It's very possible to aim for a leg. Americans (whether police or not) are just told to kill, rather than risk physical or legal liability. America’s just really big and spread out, Europeans wouldn’t know with their tiny countries where everyone has to rub shoulders all the time, so this makes perfect sense.
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Nov 24, 2021 14:39
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American cops are trained to shoot for centre mass rather than the legs because it's very hard to hit skinny teenager legs when they are running at full tilt away from you
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Nov 24, 2021 15:52
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Sweden just got its first female prime minister today. Sweden also just had its first ever female prime minister resign, 7 hours later.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:43
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MiddleOne posted:Sweden just got its first female prime minister today. Finally were turning the corner on gender rights. Why'd they resign 7 hours later? More context!
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Nov 24, 2021 18:46
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Finally were turning the corner on gender rights. The environmental party left the coalition after the government's proposed budget failed a vote in parliament. She'll likely have to take on the job of PM as head of a single-party government.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:54
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Finally were turning the corner on gender rights. Stolen from scandipol: Beeswax posted:Sweden got its first female PM, Magdalena Andersson from the Social Democrats. She spent days trying to wrangle support out of the Left Party and eventually got their backing after making concessions in the form of increased pensions for the poorest OAPs, providing a feasible foundation for a minority government with her as PM. Then parliament voted in favour of the right-wing opposition's budget, with the Centre Party (pro-market liberals) supporting the right-wing budget despite having had a hard line against the Swedish Democracts (populist right-wingers) in that bloc. Then the Green Party announced that it would leave the government over having to implement a budget that the Swedish Democracts backed. And then the PM resigned.
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Nov 24, 2021 19:28
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https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1463576961264013316?s=20
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Nov 24, 2021 19:42
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Finally were turning the corner on gender rights.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:06
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It's a pretty pithy headline, but when you realize that she did it because she didn't want to be prime minister of a government whose basis for existence would be called into question at every turn had she not, and that there's a pretty good likelyhood that she'll be the prime minister of the new government given the Swedish term limits (at least according to a Swedish friend of mine who's been following it for a long time, when I talked with her earlier today), it's not really that big of a deal and probably the right thing to do?
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Nov 24, 2021 20:29
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On the contrary, it was completely unnecessary and basically showboating.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:51
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MiddleOne posted:On the contrary, it was completely unnecessary and basically showboating. Ah yes, politics.
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Nov 24, 2021 21:24
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MiddleOne posted:On the contrary, it was completely unnecessary and basically showboating.
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Nov 25, 2021 00:08
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европа нехорошо. Россия хорошо
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Nov 26, 2021 19:09
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:So you're saying people wouldn't constantly be saying "how can this government even exist given its lack of majority or consensus on the very first budget"? Because I'm not so sure about that. That whole situation isn't changed.
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Nov 27, 2021 19:01
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:европа нехорошо. Россия хорошо congrats on using Google Translate i guess
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Nov 27, 2021 20:30
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Pope Hilarius II posted:congrats on using Google Translate i guess No translate. Other than verifying Europe was spelled correctly. Мои русский плох
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Nov 28, 2021 00:09
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моя задница счастлива
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Nov 28, 2021 00:48
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Why do people join the French Foreign Legion, what's the big deal?
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Jan 7, 2022 20:21
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If it's anything like Spanish one: clean slate on your crimes in other countries, new nationality after your service. And the expected shooting guns and male camaraderie.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:31
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Dawncloack posted:If it's anything like Spanish one: clean slate on your crimes in other countries, new nationality after your service. And the expected shooting guns and male camaraderie.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, my understanding is that they furnish you with an entirely new (French) identity. but then you would be French why
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Jan 12, 2022 02:05
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The Legion gives everyone who passes and stays in a clean slate and a possibility of French citizenship, which is enticing for many young males around the world, and all you have to do is show up at their door. You also see some westerners / ex-military looking for adventure and a good chance to keep shooting at people. They do perform background checks these days, so if you have done any serious crimes you will not be accepted.
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Jan 12, 2022 07:00
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Haramstufe Rot posted:but then you would be French
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Jan 12, 2022 11:31
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Just saw this: ex-CNI Senior figure claims Spanish Secret Service carried out the jihadist attacks via an informant on Barcelona to try to sway the Catalonia Independence movement away from supporting the referendum https://twitter.com/josepalay/status/1480947545836765186?s=20 The twitter account appears to be a little off the beaten path, but this article also seems to claim the same https://www.thenational.scot/news/19841925.secret-service-behind-barcelona-terror-attacks-says-ex-cop/ He gave testimony to Spains High Court saying the same thing: https://english.vilaweb.cat/noticies/villarejo-claims-that-spains-intel-was-involved-in-the-barcelona-terrorist-attack-of-2017/ CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 12, 2022 |
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Jan 12, 2022 19:17
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CommieGIR posted:Just saw this: ex-CNI Senior figure claims Spanish Secret Service carried out the jihadist attacks via an informant on Barcelona to try to sway the Catalonia Independence movement away from supporting the referendum Let's check some more sources from other media: https://www.ccma.cat/tv3/alacarta/t.../video/6138392/ https://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20220112/7981263/villarejo-culpa-cni-17-a-socios-sanchez-explicaciones.html https://www.elperiodico.com/es/politica/20220112/villarejo-vuelve-culpar-cni-17-13086211 https://elpais.com/espana/2022-01-11/villarejo-alienta-la-teoria-de-la-conspiracion-en-los-atentados-de-barcelona.html https://www.efe.com/efe/espana/politica/villarejo-el-cni-no-pretendia-un-atentado-pero-se-le-fue-de-las-manos/10002-4715681 SOme context about those guys: 1- Josep Lluís Alay is the former chief of Puigdemont's office and a close personal friend, he's been under investigation under charges of ebezzlement and corruption, by the way he's also the guy that led the meetings with the (alleged)russian officers during the height of the "procés", more info: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/03/world/europe/spain-catalonia-russia.html. 2- Vilaweb is an independentist media owned by Vicent Partal, who's an absolut mad lad that loves flames everyone, including other independentists and the Generalitat when it suits him, I heard he's close to the CUP but can't say for certain. Also it published more info afterwards a bit with what was said afterwards: https://www.vilaweb.cat/noticies/villarejo-explica-ara-estat-no-volia-causar-atemptat-17-a-pero-va-escapar-de-les-mans/ 3- I'm not familiar with the National Scot. Dunno, going from this to "the CNI is behind the attacks" is kind of a leap of logic. I'm not willing to takes Villarejo's words at face value, at least not with more evidence and facts, especially considering who Villarejo is, what he has said in the past and the context of the whole thing. I'm amused that the catalan government is jumping gun with this poo poo now, instead of three years ago, when the catalan police, in collaboration with other police forces and intelligence services, presented their final investigation to the court for the trial. Coincidently, the entire catalan police command has been purged by the catalan government very recently, so I guess we're going to have a couple weeks of funny poo poo going on, again.
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Jan 12, 2022 23:00
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Angry Lobster posted:Let's check some more sources from other media: Gotcha, thanks for fact checking that!
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Jan 12, 2022 23:17
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EU wants to build its own DNS infrastructure with built-in filtering capabilities.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:54
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Having read the actual text, sounds good? DNSSEC validating recursive resolver free for use and not Google. I use my own recursive resolver, but it would be useful elsewhere.
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Jan 19, 2022 21:09
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