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is pepsi ok posted:It really sounds like you are arguing that while the results re: white supremacist militias committing violence on the population are the same under either candidate that Biden is actually better because he uses nicer words. Yes, because Biden would've totally done 1/6. Also: gently caress Joe Biden, but the idea that these are one in the same is laughable. That's the only point I have.
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Nov 26, 2021 20:18
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CommieGIR posted:Its going to take a lot more than that to get a third party candidate not just in the race but actually taking more than enough votes to take office. Given that only half the country actually votes at all. Who gives a poo poo? Voting “strategically”, as you have suggested, will ensure that we will continue to have lovely candidates since there’s no incentive for Democrats to run good candidates under this scenario.
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Nov 26, 2021 20:20
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VitalSigns posted:It says right there "or until a successor is confirmed" Right. So as I read it the options are: 1. Extend term one year 2. Extend term until senate confirms a replacement And the board picked #1 I couldn't find anything indicating he could've been replaced any time over the last year. Maybe you'll have better luck.
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Nov 26, 2021 20:22
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Mind_Taker posted:Who gives a poo poo? Voting “strategically”, as you have suggested, will ensure that we will continue to have lovely candidates since there’s no incentive for Democrats to run good candidates under this scenario. Or, as I pointed out: No Third Party candidate (other than Non-Voting amirite?) winning even a state since 1968 but you are going to pretend that could change tomorrow despite nobody really making an effort to do so. Cool. Lemme know how that goes. We need to change the voting system more than addressing changing candidates right now, if Ranked Choice was adopted nationwide, we'd see more successful third party candidates. As it is right now, all you get is Third Way crap that'll never gain traction at a national level. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 20:23
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Right. So as I read it the options are: This is not how English works, the intent of the law is pretty obvious (the board can keep someone in their seat for up to a year if a successor isn't confirmed), not "the board of governors can say NO gently caress YOU to the elected government and block them from doing appointments for a year just cuz" I mean whatever I guess you gotta defend Biden no matter what but even you can't seriously believe The Rules stops people from being kicked out after their term has expired E: here ya go https://about.usps.com/who/leadership/board-governors/ quote:Appointments are made when vacancies occur or for the remainder of unexpired terms. Each governor’s term expires on December 8 of a given year. Governors may continue to serve following expiration of their term or until a successor is appointed but not for more than one year. No person may serve more than two terms as a governor. E2: Here's the applicable statute https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/202 quote:A Governor may continue to serve after the expiration of his term until his successor has qualified, but not to exceed one year. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 20:26
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There actually was a way for Biden to give Bloom the boot early on. The window was limited and my bureaucracy brain has some suspicions as to why it didn't happen. Tldr: the Biden admin was not adequately prepared for the transition. This was something we already knew. The immigration part is a particularly popular topic but it's far from the only problem area. Bloom's original term expired in December 2020. Postal governors serve until their successor is nominated or one extra calendar year, whichever comes first (thus the "Bloom is getting fired next month" podcast headline), and Trump was too much of a lazy dumbass to replace or renominate him. "But GJB", you say, "doesn't that mean Biden couldnt Biden have in fact replaced him at any time?" ...Not exactly, afaik, because something else happened in mid February: Bloom was unanimously elected Chairman of the Board. I think this made him non replaceable except for cause (through December), and it also raises some other complications. Still, if Biden wanted to, he could still have gotten the replacement process started (or finished?) in that window. I can think of several possibilities why he didn't. - The transition process was a mess and Team Biden didn't really have an opinion on how to handle the USPS yet. This would, as above, be unsurprising. Now, I understand that rebuilding the government after Trump is a substantial task - but Biden knew that going in and had from at least the day after Super Tuesday, practically speaking, to get his ducks in a row. - He thought Bloom would be a good interim choice. I think we can call this a bad decision. - He thought other confirmations were higher priority. I'm not clear on how quickly Biden was able to get the average nominee confirmed, but costing the USPS another year under DeJoy probably wasn't the best tradeoff. - He made some sort of agreement with DeJoy, Bloom, and/or their supporters in the Board / Senate to keep him on the extra year. I wouldn't be too happy about this one. Which do i think it was? Eh. They're not mutually exclusive, could be all four. At least we can now conclusively reject "Biden thinks Bloom should be kept through his whole first term".
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Nov 26, 2021 20:28
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CommieGIR posted:Yes, because Biden would've totally done 1/6. Also: gently caress Joe Biden, but the idea that these are one in the same is laughable. That's the only point I have. Yes I agree that comparing one day of violence from a group supposedly trying to establish a white supremacist order to a massive nationwide organization that exists to violently enforce the already existing white supremacist order every single day is laughable. I also feel it is salient to point out that the Democrats' response to the former was to give more money and power to the latter. CommieGIR posted:Cool. Lemme know how that goes. Alright will do. Be sure to let us know how unconditionally pledging your vote to a capitalist party works out for you.
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Nov 26, 2021 20:32
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is pepsi ok posted:Alright will do. Be sure to let us know how unconditionally pledging your vote to a capitalist party works out for you. You are aware you are posting in US Current Events, right? And nobody here is "Unconditionally pledging their vote" to anyone, that's loving goalpost you've got there. is pepsi ok posted:Yes I agree that comparing one day of violence from a group supposedly trying to establish a white supremacist order to a massive nationwide organization that exists to violently enforce the already existing white supremacist order every single day is laughable. I also feel it is salient to point out that the Democrats' response to the former was to give more money and power to the latter. And what is "is pepsi ok"'s solution? I don't think you'll find a soul here supporting more funding for cops/DHS/CBP/etc. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 20:35
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GreyjoyBastard posted:elected Chairman of the Board. I think this made him non replaceable except for cause (through December), I can't find anything saying this is true. If it isn't, VitalSigns is right Biden could've solved this problem earlier. DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 20:37
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CommieGIR posted:I mean, so was Trump, so the choice was "Guy who has a history of White supremacy in the past" or "Guy actively promoting white supremacist and violent militia groups today, this very moment" Agreed, get rid of the loving facist Nazis. Why on earth would I want these people running the Country? There are very fine people on both sides!  Jury Finds Rally Organizers Responsible for Charlottesville Violence
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Nov 26, 2021 20:40
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I did prove you wrong, the language of the statute is clear.quote:A Governor may continue to serve after the expiration of his term until his successor has qualified, but not to exceed one year. "until his successor has qualified" is pretty cut and dry, nothing in there says that as long as the successor continues to serve that he can block his own replacement. I can't find any reference to this rule you're claiming exists, it isn't in the statute, so I'm not sure where you're getting it, sounds like another one of those rules people in this thread just make up to defend whatever it is the administration happens to be doing, like when I was told it was Against The Rules for Biden to extend the eviction moratorium after the court shot down the CDC's moratorium and then he extended it and it wasn't against the rules at all.
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Nov 26, 2021 20:42
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CommieGIR posted:Or, as I pointed out: No Third Party candidate (other than Non-Voting amirite?) winning even a state since 1968 but you are going to pretend that could change tomorrow despite nobody really making an effort to do so. You’re using the “you should vote for the person who will kill 999,999 people instead of the person who will kill 1 million people” logic. Why should anyone vote for either, especially when there are candidates who will kill orders of magnitude fewer people?
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Nov 26, 2021 20:51
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You can just say you like Biden better as personal opinion instead of trying to argue your personal preferences as facts.
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Nov 26, 2021 20:56
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I can't find anything saying this is true. If it isn't, VitalSigns is right Biden could've solved this problem earlier. could be, that part I was working off memory
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Nov 26, 2021 21:00
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is pepsi ok posted:Alright will do. Be sure to let us know how unconditionally pledging your vote to a capitalist party works out for you. We live in a capitalist world, my man. It ain't changing, as far as I can see. We're going to find a way to handle the problems of the 21st century within some sort of more tamed and regulated capitalist framework or we won't at all. I don't think Communism will win, it's dead and buried.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:01
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Wild that Trump and the Republicans didn't bother to nominate their own Postal BoG replacement last December which would have been locked in for another 9 years or however long but I guess that was during his temper tantrum about losing the election.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:05
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VitalSigns posted:Wild that Trump and the Republicans didn't bother to nominate their own Postal BoG replacement last December which would have been locked in for another 9 years or however long but I guess that was during his temper tantrum about losing the election. yeah that seemed odd to me, even if he just renominated this guy
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Nov 26, 2021 21:08
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How are u posted:We live in a capitalist world, my man. It ain't changing, as far as I can see. We're going to find a way to handle the problems of the 21st century within some sort of more tamed and regulated capitalist framework or we won't at all. I don't think Communism will win, it's dead and buried. I don't know if a 300 year system is going to survive forever. Human history has not been kind anytime someone has said that this is the way the world is and alwaya will be.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:09
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How are u posted:We live in a capitalist world, my man. It ain't changing, as far as I can see. We're going to find a way to handle the problems of the 21st century within some sort of more tamed and regulated capitalist framework or we won't at all. I don't think Communism will win, it's dead and buried. It’s incredibly sad how much suffering casually exists in your best of all possible worlds.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:10
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How are u posted:We live in a capitalist world, my man. It ain't changing, as far as I can see. We're going to find a way to handle the problems of the 21st century within some sort of more tamed and regulated capitalist framework or we won't at all. I don't think Communism will win, it's dead and buried. capitalism and communism: the only two possible socioeconomic systems that have ever been tried or theorized 
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Nov 26, 2021 21:13
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readingatwork posted:It’s incredibly sad how much suffering casually exists in your best of all possible worlds. Fully automated gay space communism isn't going to magically stop all suffering. The entirety of history has been marginal improvements on top of marginal improvements and there's no reason to think that will ever not be the case. A world without any suffering is only ever possible in a world without sentience.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:14
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KillHour posted:A world without any suffering is only ever possible in a world without sentience. Well then I have good news about where capitalism is steering us
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Nov 26, 2021 21:17
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Majorian posted:And, of course, a lot of folks pick option D - around a third of eligible voters in 2020's record-breaking election, in fact. A third or more of eligible voters have picked option D in every presidential election for over a hundred years, though--not sure what would make that change; world wars, the New Deal, the Great Society, the Reagan Era, etc. didn't.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:23
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How are u posted:We live in a capitalist world, my man. It ain't changing, as far as I can see. We're going to find a way to handle the problems of the 21st century within some sort of more tamed and regulated capitalist framework or we won't at all. I don't think Communism will win, it's dead and buried. Yes I'm well aware of your gimmick where you present giving in to capitalism's destruction of our society and our world as the height of hope and optimism. KillHour posted:Fully automated gay space communism isn't going to magically stop all suffering. The entirety of history has been marginal improvements on top of marginal improvements and there's no reason to think that will ever not be the case. A world without any suffering is only ever possible in a world without sentience. This is just insanely false. Please read about any revolution ever. is pepsi ok fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 21:23
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Sir John Falstaff posted:A third or more of eligible voters have picked option D in every presidential election for over a hundred years, though--not sure what would make that change; world wars, the New Deal, the Great Society, the Reagan Era, etc. didn't. Given that we're in tyool 2021 and not 1933 or 1964, and voting is in many ways easier than it's ever been, the fact that we still have 33-40% of the electorate staying home for federal elections suggests to me that the Dems are leaving a lot of votes on the table. Perhaps they should try another New Deal/Great Society initiative and see if that helps? Or something even more far-reaching, perhaps?
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Nov 26, 2021 21:27
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is pepsi ok posted:Yes I'm well aware of your gimmick where you present giving in to capitalism's destruction of our society and our world as the height of hope and optimism. I don't think it's the height of hope and optimism, I just think it's the world we live in. I think well regulated capitalism is probably the best we're going to be able to hope for in our lifetimes. I think we can abolish billionaires and have a robust, humane social safety net in a capitalist world. That seems entirely possible to me. More importantly, it seems entirely achievable to me. I want to see actual change, and not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:27
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KillHour posted:Fully automated gay space communism isn't going to magically stop all suffering. The entirety of history has been marginal improvements on top of marginal improvements and there's no reason to think that will ever not be the case. A world without any suffering is only ever possible in a world without sentience. I dunno. I think we can do at least a little better than “oligarchical mafia state that sustains itself, vampire-like on the blood and suffering of the international poor but with a slightly more rules, maybe, someday, for white Americans”. Also please describe some of these “marginal improvements” you are talking about and how they came about by asking for the bare minimum hundreds of times over and over. Are we talking about the New Deal? Ending slavery? Ending monarchy? Gay rights? The founding of America itself? Seems to me like big changes are both more common than you think and the *actual* way history moves forward.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:28
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CommieGIR posted:I mean, so was Trump, so the choice was "Guy who has a history of White supremacy in the past" or "Guy actively promoting white supremacist and violent militia groups today, this very moment" I mean, Strom Thurmond's racism was "in the past" but I'd have sooner vote for a third party than have voted for him while he was alive, or for his eulogizer after Thurmond had died, for that matter. But I guess it isn't a difficult choice, actually, if you believe you are morally compelled to vote for a lesser-racist.  eta: CommieGIR posted:Its going to take a lot more than that to get a third party candidate not just in the race but actually taking more than enough votes to take office. Given that only half the country actually votes at all. Agreed; no one expects a third-party candidate to win, which is why non-supporters of lesser-racists should choose voting third party instead of lesser-racists as a bargaining tactic instead. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 21:30
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Nvm they went along with their schtik. The Sean fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 21:31
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Majorian posted:Given that we're in tyool 2021 and not 1933 or 1964, and voting is in many ways easier than it's ever been, the fact that we still have 33-40% of the electorate staying home for federal elections suggests to me that the Dems are leaving a lot of votes on the table. Perhaps they should try another New Deal/Great Society initiative and see if that helps? Or something even more far-reaching, perhaps? The New Deal and Great Society didn't really move the needle turnout-wise the last times; not sure sure why something similar would now. Getting rid of felon disenfranchisement, making Election Day a holiday, etc. might, though.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:34
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readingatwork posted:Also please describe some of these “marginal improvements” you are talking about and how they came about by asking for the bare minimum hundreds of times over and over. Are we talking about the New Deal? Ending slavery? Ending monarchy? Gay rights? The founding of America itself? All of these were all marginal improvements - important ones, but they weren't a panacea. Evidenced by the fact that there's still tons of suffering and we're complaining about how bad everything still is. I never said anything about how they were achieved. is pepsi ok posted:This is just insanely false. Please read about any revolution ever. Please point to the revolution that fixed everything and ended suffering so I can go move there. All the revolutions I know about involved murdering people until they ran out of people to murder and then built a new system maybe slightly less bad than the one before it or maybe significantly worse, flip a coin. KillHour fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 21:39
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Sir John Falstaff posted:The New Deal and Great Society didn't really move the needle turnout-wise the last times; not sure sure why something similar would now. We do have something similar, it's the infrastructure bill and BBB.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:39
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The Sean posted:Did you forget to change accounts before posting? Your shtick is supposed to be "capitalism may have its bad points but if we all work together we can overcome racists, ceos, and other bad people through community organization and phone banking. Everything is fine and toxic optimism will make everything okay." None of this "maybe it won't work out" bullshit. If you think that all I post is "la la la everything is going to be fine no matter what" then you're definitely not reading what I'm writing. Failure is an option. I am hopeful for the future, but I am not naďve about it.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:40
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CommieGIR posted:Yes, because Biden would've totally done 1/6. Also: gently caress Joe Biden, but the idea that these are one in the same is laughable. That's the only point I have. Just once I'd love to hear a liberal lament the 80,000 deaths our health "insurance" system causes each year as much as they are cry about the "end of democracy" on 1/6. Because I see clearly which of the two situations undermines democracy, when it comes down to it.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:41
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Yeah marginal changes have always been the bait used to avert structural changes that would remove issues(while also dis-empowering some who are powerful) and even that gets fought tooth and nail. The new deal was essentially created as a compromise itself, by the way, as the writing on the wall said economic reform or socialist revolution against the banks closing down the economy. The war and post war period of prosperity was used to separate labor from socialism, and once the 80s hit and it became clear organized labor had lost its powerful political machine it was rapidly dismantled via globalization and open shop laws to quickly crush labors leverage. Thats why they fear socialism and unions in other countries now, because if international labor organizes and transitions to full western style democracy then they can no longer undercut other organization by moving the jobs to a different jurisdiction. But that fostered a wave of confusion about cause that now seems to be resolving. Unions are coming to the new labor, in the service industries, and the unions only really need a few wins to collapse the stonewalling.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:41
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There isn't a revolution that fixed everything in one fell swoop because there is no perfect system and never will be. However, we can do a hell of a lot better than capitalism and actually distribute goods based on need rather than the profit motives of a vanishingly small minority of lazy bastards.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:48
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:There isn't a revolution that fixed everything in one fell swoop because there is no perfect system and never will be. However, we can do a hell of a lot better than capitalism and actually distribute goods based on need rather than the profit motives of a vanishingly small minority of lazy bastards. And finding that system will take time and will involve many small marginal improvements and maybe a few medium ones.
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Nov 26, 2021 21:53
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KillHour posted:All of these were all marginal improvements - important ones, but they weren't a panacea. Evidenced by the fact that there's still tons of suffering and we're complaining about how bad everything still is. I never said anything about how they were achieved. Wait, the ending of slavery via a long and bloody civil war and the end of monarchy during the first world war counts as a "marginal" changes to you? What would you count as a "significant" change then?  That aside, you DO realize that when liberals talk about "incremental change" they're talking about stuff like tax credits for small business owners and making cops take an online course telling them not to use the n-word in public right? Absolutely nothing at even 1/1000th of the scale of anything I listed is on the table right now. That's why so many people are stating to openly wonder if overthrowing the government might be easier than trying to work within our broken system. E: KillHour posted:And finding that system will take time and will involve many small marginal improvements and maybe a few medium ones. What does this change look like in your mind. Please describe in concrete terms how we get from where we are now to a system that actively redistributes wealth and power from the top to the bottom rungs of society and is centered around human need and not the endless desire for profit? readingatwork fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Nov 26, 2021 |
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Nov 26, 2021 21:58
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:We do have something similar, it's the infrastructure bill and BBB. They're similar in that they're both legislation I guess If you think they're going to be remotely comparable in societal impact, you are being very much a mark
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Nov 26, 2021 21:59
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readingatwork posted:That's why so many people are stating to openly wonder if overthrowing the government might be easier than trying to work within our broken system. What's your metric for this? I'm genuinely curious. It's not something I've encountered in day to day life or at work, basically offline at all.
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Nov 26, 2021 22:00
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