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Endorph posted:women love dating sims 'for men' is the thing. like the otome genre exists literally because of that. women were already playing those games and enjoying them and otome games were created to cater to them more specifically. thats why all the old dating sims like tokimeki have an otome game side series. there's a gender essentialism to how people view this stuff in the west that is not borne out by literally any actual evidence or historical precedent. fair point, I guess I must have been colored by the fact that I find poo poo like panty shots or ridiculously big-breasted women or a cast consisting of nothing but -dere variants annoying, and otome games don't usually have poo poo like that so I assume they're 'better' by default
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Nov 30, 2021 04:48
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otome games 100% have dere variants
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Nov 30, 2021 04:49
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I mean I don't mind one tsundere or kuudere or what have you in a cast, hence why I said 'nothing but'.
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Nov 30, 2021 04:51
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I don't know why you're acting like they don't make a dating simulator for boys. Right now there is one thats got stats, rpg progression, training activities, a little combat, attractive and fit men and women, and the official UFC license.
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Nov 30, 2021 04:52
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It sounds like your arguing against a straw man you created in your head instead of the actual genre.
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Nov 30, 2021 04:53
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Some people don't know that the serious ones exist but do know that the trashy porn ones exist, which colors their perception of the whole genre. And some don't think that romance is a suitable subject matter for men, to their general misfortune.
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Nov 30, 2021 04:57
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Junpei posted:I mean I don't mind one tsundere or kuudere or what have you in a cast, hence why I said 'nothing but'. i don't know why are you harping so much on dere stuff here but both sides of the spectrum are filled with stock achetypes and this really feels like you are just cutting hairs
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Nov 30, 2021 04:57
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Snooze Cruise posted:i mean this is specifically about the western vn scene right? im pretty sure outside of that BL is typically more popular.
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Nov 30, 2021 05:01
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Bongo Bill posted:Some people don't know that the serious ones exist but do know that the trashy porn ones exist, which colors their perception of the whole genre. And some don't think that romance is a suitable subject matter for men, to their general misfortune. I feel like this is basically like 90% of it, in so far as a lot of peoples only exposure is the trashy ones because serious ones aren't for men so only trashy ones get shown to men and games are often male spaces and circle of life. I'm arguably part of the problem because Im not reading all those words unless we catch the real killer at the end of it. No time for smooches, the mystery abounds. Its why I ended up falling outside of Disco Elysiums ability to track me both to myself and the games dissapointment.
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Nov 30, 2021 05:02
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Junpei posted:fair point, I guess I must have been colored by the fact that I find poo poo like panty shots or ridiculously big-breasted women or a cast consisting of nothing but -dere variants annoying, and otome games don't usually have poo poo like that so I assume they're 'better' by default obvs there is stuff like that but sakura wars, tokimeki, they're all harem-y stuff sure but they're relatively subdued in a lot of ways. amagami is a very popular psp dating sim that still has a lot of cultural cache and its insanely grounded.
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Nov 30, 2021 05:05
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Araxxor posted:Was the game in question Sweet Fuse by any chance? no, it was amnesia memories  though iirc 7'scarlet had a similar route lmao
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Nov 30, 2021 05:07
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writing an otome game about falling in love with the person whose job is to sell cages to other otome love interests
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Nov 30, 2021 05:09
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Snooze Cruise posted:writing an otome game about falling in love with the person whose job is to sell cages to other otome love interests cages???
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Nov 30, 2021 05:10
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also proper dating sims for dudes barely get made anymore, obviously there's still romance visual novels but they usually have some kind of twist or proper story, like an action or sci-fi or horror thing, and none of the mechanical elements. in terms of the stuff that's inherited their dna, idolmaster shiny colors is probably one of the bigger recentish things thats taken after the genre and that game is almost slavishly grounded in fleshing out the characters and has a massive female fanbase as a result. and the character designs are also relatively grounded.  mamimi tanaka, hobbies wandering around at night and taking care of her pet lizards, won a big otome game/female okaku site's poll last year for 'characters you'd most like to have as a boyfriend.' i feel like this illustrates the truths of the dating sim genre in full.
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Nov 30, 2021 05:10
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If you remove the absolutely dire combat from Planescape: Torment you're left with a pretty good visual novel. I still didn't finish it
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Nov 30, 2021 05:11
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As someone who lives near Quebec, there's a bunch of -dere women around. One over dere, anudder over dere, even tree more down the road dere.
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Nov 30, 2021 05:14
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All right, time to put things to the test. What's a recommendable "introductory" dating sim, of any orientation, that's readily available in English? One that represents well the genre's strengths, is neither overly committed to an idiosyncratic or gimmicky premise nor subversive for audiences burned out on the common conventions, and ideally isn't too difficult?
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Nov 30, 2021 05:15
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dating/stat raising sims have a lot of interesting mechanics that get overlooked. like i only played some of the otome games but tokimeki had some like, cool stuff. like the clothing system matters where you have to guess what style the dudes would be into and had some complexity. and the way dates are setup isn't just "go to this venue for standard venue event for steve" but instead you login to your computer and actually see what exhibit was at the museum, or what movies were playing, or what concert was performing. its funny, while i have no interest in like the genre's tappings i like a lot of cultivation games on steam because the genre tends to have a lot of stat raising elements
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Nov 30, 2021 05:17
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the most recent mechanically-charged dating sim for men i can think of is like. recolove? which focused 90% around horny for big titty foreign cosplayer and was, a flop. there's fuuraiki but fuuraiki 4 isn't charged by stats, it's charged by 8k 360-degree photographs of hokkaido while a girl explains the history of random japanese regions to youBongo Bill posted:All right, time to put things to the test. What's a recommendable "introductory" dating sim, of any orientation, that's readily available in English? One that represents well the genre's strengths, is neither overly committed to an idiosyncratic or gimmicky premise nor subversive for audiences burned out on the common conventions, and ideally isn't too difficult? the fan tl for amagami comes out soon, i think tokimemo also has a fan tl in progress but tokimemo 1 is unlike any other dating sim in terms of mechanics and structure, lots more gamey with a defined "best" end. if tokimeki memorial 2 had a tl that would be ideal cause it's a lot more relaxed chill out with characters you like vibes. it switched from having a designated "best" girl to just letting you hang out with the weird cockroach girl who gets run over by cars and menaced by sharks if you want. also the tokimemo 1 fan tl is for the snes port and that port is legitimately dire The Colonel fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 05:17
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Don't let these people mislead you with their "real suggestions" based on their "playing and liking the genre". The finest dating simulator with the most in-depth mechanical gameplay is Dragon Quest V for the DS.
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Nov 30, 2021 05:20
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The Colonel posted:tokimemo also has a fan tl in progress but tokimemo 1 is unlike any other dating sim in terms of mechanics and structure, lots more gamey with a defined "best" end. if tokimeki memorial 2 had a tl that would be ideal cause it's a lot more relaxed chill out with characters you like vibes. it switched from having a designated "best" girl to just letting you hang out with the weird cockroach girl who gets run over by cars and menaced by sharks if you want i mean the otome ones are translated.
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Nov 30, 2021 05:21
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Bongo Bill posted:All right, time to put things to the test. What's a recommendable "introductory" dating sim, of any orientation, that's readily available in English? One that represents well the genre's strengths, is neither overly committed to an idiosyncratic or gimmicky premise nor subversive for audiences burned out on the common conventions, and ideally isn't too difficult? in terms of otome games there's a handful, like Tokimeki Memorial Girl's Side 1st Love Plus. i havent played it but its probably a pretty straight shot across the bow, being a tokimeki game and all. but it's a ds-exclusive and not exactly one of the pillars of the genre. sakura wars v is fairly gimmicky since it has the mecha premise baked in as well as the history stuff, and the chapters end with strategy rpg gameplay, but it's still way more of a dating sim than, say, persona, and is pretty good outside of one of the characters being kind of a pain. but neither of those are like, the pillars of the genre. they're entries in it but both are lesser works in a larger franchise and are relatively late into the genre's life. even in terms of tokimeki girls' side games, im pretty sure its seen as one of the blander ones. if amagami's fantl finishes soon thatd be a good starting point, though it still kinda exists as more a latestage commentary on and exploration of the genre. (not in some ownage subversive way, just looking at the fallen pieces of the genre and going 'huh.' its kinda neat.) Endorph fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 05:22
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I want a girl with pet lizards to be my boyfriend, too
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Nov 30, 2021 05:22
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anyway this is reminding me i was going to make a google doc for fun for my dream game where you are a recently unemployed individual who becomes roommates with an OL and its a stat raising sim where all the stats you raise involved you taking care of the apartment and the end goal is to become the stay at home wife
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Nov 30, 2021 05:23
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OL? I feel like I should know this but its eluding mecheetah7071 posted:I want a girl with pet lizards to be my boyfriend, too So thats what the single woman at my office with pet rats is doing wrong.
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Nov 30, 2021 05:26
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Barudak posted:OL? I feel like I should know this but its eluding me Office Lady
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Nov 30, 2021 05:27
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cheetah7071 posted:I want a girl with pet lizards to be my boyfriend, too 
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Nov 30, 2021 05:27
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Barudak posted:OL? I feel like I should know this but its eluding me Office lady
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Nov 30, 2021 05:27
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Endorph posted:but neither of those are like, the pillars of the genre. they're entries in it but both are lesser works in a larger franchise and are relatively late into the genre's life. even in terms of tokimeki girls' side games, im pretty sure its seen as one of the blander ones. 2 and 3 are also tled, if you want more choice there at least the real funny thing about amagami is its existence as a game made when kadokawa's regular dating sim producer was working on other stuff. that producer enforced lots of really clunky design choices in amagami's predecessor, kimikiss, that are annoying and nonsensical to go back to. amagami has none of those. as soon as that guy came back the photokano and recolove games had all his same bizarre design decisions back with much worse character writing now lol. though it is incredibly funny, that recolove has a foreign cosplay girl, who when you ask her where you can see her cosplay online, says "just google 'foreign cosplayer'."
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Nov 30, 2021 05:28
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Barudak posted:If you remove the absolutely dire combat from Planescape: Torment you're left with a pretty good visual novel. this is also true of the Witcher 3
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Nov 30, 2021 05:29
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Snooze Cruise posted:otome games 100% have dere variants i think the most common complaint I hear about trashier otome is the stereotypical dere variant Bad Route lol
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Nov 30, 2021 05:30
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The Colonel posted:the real funny thing about amagami is its existence as a game made when kadokawa's regular dating sim producer was working on other stuff. that producer enforced lots of really clunky design choices in amagami's predecessor, kimikiss, that are annoying and nonsensical to go back to. amagami has none of those. as soon as that guy came back the photokano and recolove games had all his same bizarre design decisions back with much worse character writing now lol. though it is incredibly funny, that recolove has a foreign cosplay girl, who when you ask her where you can see her cosplay online, says "just google 'foreign cosplayer'."
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Nov 30, 2021 05:31
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i think the most common complaint I hear about trashier otome is the stereotypical dere variant Bad Route lol Snooze Cruise posted:writing an otome game about falling in love with the person whose job is to sell cages to other otome love interests case in point lol
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Nov 30, 2021 05:35
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Is there a matchmaking simulator? I feel like that seems way more my speed. Don't a single one of you sickos say "Sprung" Endorph posted:honestly i realize thats probably the writers not knowing white people cosplay also but its much funnier imagining her being fully aware she tops google search results, like that picture of a yoko cosplayer I have suspicions they knew, but it is way funnier that way. My favorite japanese response to "are you doing anything for halloween" is "I don't cospla"
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Nov 30, 2021 05:37
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Barudak posted:Is there a matchmaking simulator? I feel like that seems way more my speed. there are those kitty power games i never played them but i see them floating around steam
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Nov 30, 2021 05:37
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Barudak posted:Is there a matchmaking simulator? I feel like that seems way more my speed. Bejeweled
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Nov 30, 2021 05:38
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apropos of nothing I like how the relationship stuff was done in Witcher 3. Wonder what that dev did after that game
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Nov 30, 2021 05:38
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Gaius Marius posted:Bejeweled I have been wrecked
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Nov 30, 2021 05:40
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Junpei posted:fair point, I guess I must have been colored by the fact that I find poo poo like panty shots or ridiculously big-breasted women or a cast consisting of nothing but -dere variants annoying, and otome games don't usually have poo poo like that so I assume they're 'better' by default Have you only been at JAST or something? Endorph posted:won a big otome game/female okaku site's poll last year for 'characters you'd most like to have as a boyfriend.' I mean really who wouldn't? shiny colors has a fan patch but no global version right? not getting my hopes up but it'd be nice if there was. Araxxor posted:Was the game in question Sweet Fuse by any chance? I still find Sweet Fuse's premise wild, high concept otome games are the best Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 05:41
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Phoenix Wright has a lot of routes where people get thrown in cages. What pervert wrote that game
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Nov 30, 2021 05:42
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