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The Biden administration is exploring options for a potential evacuation of US citizens from Ukraine if Russia were to invade the country and create a dire security situation, half a dozen sources tell CNN Can we get a photoshopped Biden congratulating Putin on his liberation of Odessa
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 17:32 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 16:34 |
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hmm wisconsingreg fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Dec 7, 2021 |
# ? Dec 7, 2021 19:53 |
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Cugel the Clever posted:lol, you don't think "started a world war that killed tens of millions while in pursuit of irredentist goals" is one of the primary things he's remembered for, alongside the Holocaust and, of course, being the man who killed Hitler? Again, I'm not saying he's not a vile autocrat, but all the Hitler comparisons itt do is reveal a lot about the posters (in a region whose recollections and narratives re: WW2 history and their roles can often be uhhhh shall we say...tenuous). Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Dec 7, 2021 |
# ? Dec 7, 2021 20:05 |
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It's definitely true that the internal industrially-powered genocide was rather unique and characteristic of the Third Reich, but ruling out any comparison or direct metaphor between, say, Churchill and Hitler does a big disservice to how the vast crimes of both were motivated by racially-based worldviews with a shared common ancestor. You don't have to airwall Hitler off to maintain rhetorical power, quite the contrary in my opinion.
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 20:14 |
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its not like russia has a history of autocrats like putin, he must be compared to hitler
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 22:34 |
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Vasukhani posted:its not like russia has a history of autocrats like putin, he must be compared to hitler Those autocrats? Also Hitlers
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 22:48 |
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Redirecting the thread back to reality.... (From Geopoliticalfutures:) Russian battleplan anticipated by Ukraine: quote:Russia’s war plan is obviously secret, but the government of Ukraine has released its view of how a Russian invasion would be executed. It consists of three thrusts intended to isolate and occupy Kyiv: northward from the Crimean Peninsula, southward from Belarus and westward from Volgograd. Together, they would surround Kyiv and pass through a substantial part of Ukraine, giving them maximum opportunity for low-cost pacification. quote:There are three problems with the strategy. The first problem is logistical. These multi-division forces would be engaged in high-intensity maneuver and combat. All three would have to be supplied, and as they approached Kyiv they would take on a circular formation. Since it must be assumed that combat increases as movement declines, one phase would require massive amounts of "POL" – petroleum, oil and lubricants. The second phase would demand large amounts of munitions of all varieties. The possibility is high of uncoordinated pauses in advancing, leaving Russian flanks open. quote:(...) Of course, the threat of invasion isn’t exclusive to this strategy. If Russia intends to occupy Ukraine, some variation will be necessary. But an invasion might simply entail taking a piece of Ukraine in the east or the north. The U.S., eager to avoid a war in the middle of Eurasia when the threat is trivial, will likely respond only with sanctions. Russia can stomach that as it threatens further penetration without taking it. This changes the political dynamic if Europe, incapable of mounting a defense, chooses to accommodate Russia. quote:(...) the entire threat might simply be an attempt to test Biden. During the Cold War, testing a new president was a Soviet routine. Doing so now could be seen as a low-risk, high-reward proposition. quote:The Russians cannot afford a defeat in their bid to secure Ukraine in the present geopolitical reality. They have time to move – that is, unless Putin, who hungers to restore the former Soviet border, sees the hand of time moving and is prepared to take a risk for the sake of glory. Perhaps so, but KGB men are trained to be careful. My bet is this is a bluff. But I wouldn’t bet the house on it. Grouchio fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Dec 7, 2021 |
# ? Dec 7, 2021 22:58 |
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ah yes, reality, like the above analysis
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 23:17 |
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On Russian 60 Minutes yesterday, an equally 'reality'-based Russian military analyst promised that Russia could also easily conquer Baltic states and even parts of Sweden, and even showed on map how this would go about.
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 23:28 |
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i say swears online posted:ah yes, reality, like the above analysis
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 23:31 |
i say swears online posted:ah yes, reality, like the above analysis
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 23:43 |
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"they've discussed options" is only the tiniest step up from a total nothingburger, we have plans in case of alien invasion or, worse, war with Canada
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 23:44 |
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Knock it off. Either address their post or ignore it.
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# ? Dec 7, 2021 23:58 |
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Grouchio posted:Well what's your counter-analysis? (Other than Biden going for sanctions and nothing else because let your enemy trip over himself, duh) We let the majority ethnic Russian Ukrainians of Eastern Ukraine decide what they want which seems to be join russia.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 00:52 |
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LOL Our options: lend lease Ukraine and spark ww3 Option 2: give up Europe Wow we suuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUURRRRRREEEEE are gonna do option 1
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 03:22 |
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Tweezer Reprise posted:It's definitely true that the internal industrially-powered genocide was rather unique and characteristic of the Third Reich, but ruling out any comparison or direct metaphor between, say, Churchill and Hitler does a big disservice to how the vast crimes of both were motivated by racially-based worldviews with a shared common ancestor. You don't have to airwall Hitler off to maintain rhetorical power, quite the contrary in my opinion. Especially when, as mentioned, Russia has no shortage of racist autocrats in its history to compare him to.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 03:43 |
I like how the big brained prediction is that Russia will attack from all available sides and try to take the capital.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 03:55 |
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Hitler comparisons are just easy listening for Americans with the history channel on TV 24 hours a day because "at least they'll learn something" which is back to back Nazi docs, and coolparing Saddam Gaddafi or loving Noriega to hitler. Or do a Putin centered documentary with Hitler doc following. So anyone we don't like is called Hitler because it soothes that imprint in your mind. Not trying to get into succ4putin. Putins a gangster, not a failson shitlord like Hitler. So his version of power is vastly different and upbringing. He is a decisively vicious guy who rose out of the post Soviet era with all of his parts accounted for and a steady ladder climb. Not such a feat that weak men achieve. That survival and movement was fueled by a criminal underground on the form of the tambov gang and it's associated and allied in the Petersburg area. These are mercilellysy brutal places to hang, and being a killer is basically a loving requirement. So that's really not Hitler poo poo, and the military movements of Hitler are fairly uh, unplanned? I mean the Nazis were using Czech trucks to invade France and still utilizing horses to carry poo poo well into 1942. Putins a little more of a methodical guy than that. He has goals in mind and will make plans to achieve those goals with decades of planning. I don't think anyone marks Hitler as a master tactician. So what the gently caress is the comparison and why the hell is it made? Is it the big strongman speeches Putin does? Or is it because both Putin and Hitler (avid sportsman) both pose on horseback with 6 packs showing?
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 04:10 |
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Same reason Saddam was Hitler. Hitler was a madman who had to be stopped by any means necessary, if every other war you want to do is a new Hitler than anyone who suggests that risking a nuclear confrontation over some dirt farms somewhere is maybe possibly not a good cost-benefit can be immediately dismissed as a deranged a Hitler-loving fool.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 04:26 |
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Neville Chamberlain, prior to the Munich Agreement in 1938 posted:Calm down, everyone, it's not like we're dealing with 1945 Hitler, here. The man who we meet with today, 1938 Hitler, is not that bellicose monster we all know and revile. To pretend otherwise is hysterical and... disrespectful of the real vastness and horror of the crimes/threats compared. Has 1938 Hitler run roughshod over Europe, conquering states with wild abandon? No. Has 1938 Hitler slaughtered 6 million Jews? Also no. The takeaway is that NATO countries and their allies should be doing what it can to make Ukraine too big a pill to swallow and to make sure that they are prepared should the threat turn toward them.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 04:31 |
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Cugel the Clever posted:If the chief complaint is that Hitler committed the Holocaust and thus is a step too far in comparison, we could turn to a less sensational irredentist strongman like Mussolini, but he still doesn't quite capture the ratcheting up of claims month after month and the international community's failure in the face of it. The point of the rhetoric is to highlight an obvious example where an authoritarian leader's belligerence was taken insufficiently seriously, allowing the repeated small arsons Hitler committed with each territorial acquisition to ignite into an extraordinary conflagration. Much like Russia today, Germany fundamentally wasn't ready for the conflict it created, yet still turned all of Europe into a slaughter house before the piper caught up with them. JFK was a lot like Hitler, he invaded Cuba and then Vietnam.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 04:46 |
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Vasukhani posted:JFK was a lot like Hitler, he invaded Cuba and then Vietnam. And I'm sure if Russia moved some defensive troops and missiles into Cuba to protect it from foreign aggression it would be a wise gesture toward world peace as the USA would react very reasonably
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 04:58 |
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When commander Molotov swore fealty to Putin it was like the night of long knives but compressed into one long knife being sheathed.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 05:04 |
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I always assumed the comparisons to Hitler were a plea to Western Europe's appeasement while Hitler stepped over line after line drawn in the sand, refusing to act until his blade was at the throat of the then "greatest" continental power. Germany would have been easier to stop in 39 or even earlier when they first started violating the accepted order. Fortunately mistrust between the great European autocrats and throws by first Japan then Italy sealed his fate. People arguing the danger of letting people violate the post-World-Wars norm of "don't invade other countries and keep territorial claims" are going to jump to the most egregious historical example that supports their point. It's not the most precise fit, but Hitler is the strongest argument one can make against concessions ever. After Pyrrhus lost by winning, we called victories that doom the victor pyrrhic. A couple of hundred years and we may call the blunder of causing catastrophe by hiding from it either a Hitlerian or Chamberlaic fault. If you're looking through any other lens--motive, capability, methods (other than patience and many small cuts)--the metaphor quickly disintigrates. piL fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 8, 2021 |
# ? Dec 8, 2021 06:32 |
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I will admit I keep thinking of Biden as Neville chamberlain. Is that in itself a Hitler comparison?
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 06:36 |
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I will admit I keep thinking of Biden as Neville chamberlain. Is that in itself a Hitler comparison? I'd say similar but it depends on what comparison you want to make. I think most readers will assume you mean Chamberlain the appeaser and not Chamberlain the opponent of Poor Law boards, Chamberlain the Health Minister, Chamberlain the failed negotiator for cancelation of war debt, Chamberlain the architect of the Unemployment Assistance Board, Chamberlain the nationaliser of coal, or Chamberlain the proponent for better working conditions. I hadn't heard any of that other stuff until just skimming his wikipedia article.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 07:07 |
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piL posted:I'd say similar but it depends on what comparison you want to make. I think most readers will assume you mean Chamberlain the appeaser and not Chamberlain the opponent of Poor Law boards, Chamberlain the Health Minister, Chamberlain the failed negotiator for cancelation of war debt, Chamberlain the architect of the Unemployment Assistance Board, Chamberlain the nationaliser of coal, or Chamberlain the proponent for better working conditions. I hadn't heard any of that other stuff until just skimming his wikipedia article. Wow I thought you were talking about histories many chamberlains. I didn't know about any of this other stuff either.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 07:10 |
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piL posted:I always assumed the comparisons to Hitler were a plea to Western Europe's appeasement while Hitler stepped over line after line drawn in the sand, refusing to act until his blade was at the throat of the then "greatest" continental power. Germany would have been easier to stop in 39 or even earlier when they first started violating the accepted order. Fortunately mistrust between the great European autocrats and throws by first Japan then Italy sealed his fate. It's more of a "guy I don't like" thing If it were just about invading countries then every US president is Hitler and nobody would be saying "hey you know what would make things better, some more Hilter"
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 07:11 |
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Biden is Stalin.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 07:11 |
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VitalSigns posted:It's more of a "guy I don't like" thing US adventures are more similar to most of the rest of the world's post WW2 adventures, including the Soviet Union, which have tended to be "invade country, make changes, leave country." Occupying territory and annexing it has a particularly pre-1945 feel to it, distinct even from Russian action in Georgia. It feels unique (so far) in the 21st century.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 07:23 |
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God were going to get into a loving WW2 debate. anyway some new news The Biden admin is watching for the possibility that "Russia could actually use Belarusian territory to march on Ukraine and/or mask its forces as Belarusian forces," @UnderSecStateP tells SFRC In the event Russia further invades Ukraine, US will be "looking to respond positively" to requests from Baltic allies, Romania, Poland, for "additional capabilities & potentially additional deployments" The head of the Crimean branch of Aeroflot committed suicide in Simferopol We observe the exclusion of Ukraine and other Central and Eastern European countries from the US-Russia talks. It's just a mistake - says the deputy head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs @paweljabIonski in an interview with @wirtualnapolska (When us allies are excluded from talks it always goes well for them)
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 07:30 |
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god i love our media https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1468385883774726151 is there/is there going to be a full readout of the call or are we only getting the press briefing talking points
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 07:44 |
CMYK BLYAT! posted:god i love our media The official readout was published about 12 hours ago, but it’s not particularly informative. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1468282911434678278
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 07:52 |
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Wouldn't like, now be a great time for the US to start flooding arms into Ukraine?
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 08:08 |
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Weird how the open American nazi is supporting Russia, and not the American puppet nazi Ukraine with nazi pride parades and the nazi jewish president
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 08:10 |
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Charliegrs posted:Wouldn't like, now be a great time for the US to start flooding arms into Ukraine? This does remind me that a if Russia invades the rest of Ukraine and the US takes action, it will probably be more in the form of the Soviet-Afghan War than a direct confrontation. I know it's probably a poor analogy given all the differences in the situations, but then again Andrew Jackson has made an appearance in the last page or two. I wonder what the Stinger missile would be this time around.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 09:37 |
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Smeef posted:I wonder what the Stinger missile would be this time around. US already supplies Javelins, but rather openly this time
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 10:09 |
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CommieGIR posted:Knock it off. Either address their post or ignore it. imo actual eastern european posters completely rolling their eyes at some drivel grouchio posted is considerably more thread-relevant than exhaustively taking apart some '
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 10:22 |
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Polish troops fighting in Ukraine? Is this even remotely plausible? I can't even imagine a modern western military would voluntarily stick its dick into the hornet nest that is fighting without air superiority
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 10:23 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 16:34 |
GABA ghoul posted:Polish troops fighting in Ukraine? Is this even remotely plausible? I can't even imagine a modern western military would voluntarily stick its dick into the hornet nest that is fighting without air superiority No, it’s complete lunacy even if Polish airforce wasn’t the best at killing Polish presidents.
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# ? Dec 8, 2021 10:27 |